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On July 03 2011 14:04 Ryze wrote:
I think serious competitions are going to have to look at getting some sort of anti hack program, its bullshit that people could be hacking and winning tons of money in online tournaments right now =\
Ya its pretty ridiculous. Maphack ruining competition and drop hack ruining ladder.
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I think it's pretty obvious online tournaments need to move to self recordings of players during the match with sound etc.
Pretty much ideal setup would be every say NASL player recording themselves with a webcam type rig playing the games with speakers for sound also recorded so they cant use audio indicators. It would obviously be a huge pain as any antihack ruleset would cause. Depending on blizzard is pretty stupid.
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On July 03 2011 14:14 dacthehork wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious online tournaments need to move to self recordings of players during the match with sound etc.
Pretty much ideal setup would be every say NASL player recording themselves with a webcam type rig playing the games with speakers for sound also recorded so they cant use audio indicators.
and have to invite 12 random guys from tl who stand behind them when playing.
After that we put them on a lie-detector and dont forget to check there piss for drugs!
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On July 03 2011 14:17 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 14:14 dacthehork wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious online tournaments need to move to self recordings of players during the match with sound etc.
Pretty much ideal setup would be every say NASL player recording themselves with a webcam type rig playing the games with speakers for sound also recorded so they cant use audio indicators. and have to invite 12 random guys from tl who stand behind them when playing. After that we put them on a lie-detector and dont forget to check there piss for drugs!
or you can just pretend/hope no one will cheat and allow the possibility of a larger scandal or wrong person winning. Personally I dont really think anyone cheats for sure, just suspicious at times of certain players. The fact is SC2 is not secure what tourney admins want to do about it is up to them. There are enough lan finals that it really isnt a huge deal.
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Question for the people who have the technical know-how on the topic: Why is it possible to create an "undetectable maphack" in StarCraft II but not the prior Blizzard games? I presume it has to do with some function for how the new version of Battle.net operates?
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Man, these guys are nearly as bad as cheesers. Blizzard can't fix it soon enough.
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Lets be honest, Blizzard has never made the best warden to kill the map/drop hacks. Every time they patch it, another is created the next day. It's the reason why I hated laddering on BW/Warcraft III. I guess the trends going to continue onto Starcraft 2..
I is disappoint.
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On July 03 2011 14:22 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Question for the people who have the technical know-how on the topic: Why is it possible to create an "undetectable maphack" in StarCraft II but not the prior Blizzard games? I presume it has to do with some function for how the new version of Battle.net operates?
It just reads directly from memory, doesn't touch sc2.
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By the way, while Warden does pretty well against hacks, there are 3rd party programs that can be used to verify that people are not hacking for other tournaments. Blizzard has respectfully declined to go as far as installing hardcore snooping software on SC2 PCs, but that doesn't mean somebody can't do it if the need is there. If tournaments are that worried about hacking, there are avenues to explore that can combat it without Blizzard's direct help.
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On July 03 2011 14:22 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Question for the people who have the technical know-how on the topic: Why is it possible to create an "undetectable maphack" in StarCraft II but not the prior Blizzard games? I presume it has to do with some function for how the new version of Battle.net operates?
Its possible for every game. But it looks like that bliz make it easy to create in sc2.
They read out the Ram. So the Program just watch the sc2-process and don't interact with it at all.
The sc2-proc is not able to tell if its watched or not.
A Program that search all running processes and compare them with a blacklist can still detect the cheat. But you have to know the cheat program and its problematic because you scanning all private data on the computer with such a program too.
On July 03 2011 14:30 aksfjh wrote:
By the way, while Warden does pretty well against hacks, there are 3rd party programs that can be used to verify that people are not hacking for other tournaments. Blizzard has respectfully declined to go as far as installing hardcore snooping software on SC2 PCs, but that doesn't mean somebody can't do it if the need is there. If tournaments are that worried about hacking, there are avenues to explore that can combat it without Blizzard's direct help.
The problem is that 3rd party anti cheat programs can look like cheat programs for bliz.
So they could ban you for using them. Happened in the past in BW.
In BW there was a way to deal with it. Because bliz was not able to make sure the people are not cheating and had a bad , later no ladder system. People start to open public servers with anticheat functions and own better laddersystem. Like ICCUP.
We could do the same now but .... wait .... we dont have lan ....
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If this shit keeps up it won't be long before there's a new private server with a required anti-hack launcher and better maps.
EDIT: Or is this impossible given that there is no LAN/gateway selection?
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On July 03 2011 14:30 aksfjh wrote:
By the way, while Warden does pretty well against hacks, there are 3rd party programs that can be used to verify that people are not hacking for other tournaments. Blizzard has respectfully declined to go as far as installing hardcore snooping software on SC2 PCs, but that doesn't mean somebody can't do it if the need is there. If tournaments are that worried about hacking, there are avenues to explore that can combat it without Blizzard's direct help.
i competed in a tourney for alienware a while back and they required you sign on to their CEVO server while playing your game. not sure if it was a hack detector, but i didn't mind running it while playing.
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On July 03 2011 14:29 dacthehork wrote:
It just reads directly from memory, doesn't touch sc2. On July 03 2011 14:31 skeldark wrote:
Its possible for every game. But it looks like that bliz make it easy to create in sc2.
They read out the Ram. So the Program just watch the sc2-process and don't interact with it at all.
The sc2-proc is not able to tell if its watched or not.
A Program that search all running processes and compare them with a blacklist can still detect the cheat. But you have to know the cheat program and its problematic because you scanning all private data on the computer with such a program too.
Explanations work for me. Thanks. <3
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On July 03 2011 14:39 KillerPlague wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 14:30 aksfjh wrote:
By the way, while Warden does pretty well against hacks, there are 3rd party programs that can be used to verify that people are not hacking for other tournaments. Blizzard has respectfully declined to go as far as installing hardcore snooping software on SC2 PCs, but that doesn't mean somebody can't do it if the need is there. If tournaments are that worried about hacking, there are avenues to explore that can combat it without Blizzard's direct help. i competed in a tourney for alienware a while back and they required you sign on to their CEVO server while playing your game. not sure if it was a hack detector, but i didn't mind running it while playing.
Most likely a program that let them collect screen shots.
It is not 100% secure but it is a easy way to check for running cheat programs.
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On July 03 2011 14:29 dacthehork wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 14:22 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Question for the people who have the technical know-how on the topic: Why is it possible to create an "undetectable maphack" in StarCraft II but not the prior Blizzard games? I presume it has to do with some function for how the new version of Battle.net operates? It just reads directly from memory, doesn't touch sc2.
Even so, for a map hack to be of any use, you have to actually show the map underneath the fog of war. As far as I'm aware, this requires modification of the SC2 process (or perhaps OpenGL or some other library) and is therefore detectable. Otherwise I think we would be in more trouble...
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On July 03 2011 14:47 Incanus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 14:29 dacthehork wrote:On July 03 2011 14:22 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Question for the people who have the technical know-how on the topic: Why is it possible to create an "undetectable maphack" in StarCraft II but not the prior Blizzard games? I presume it has to do with some function for how the new version of Battle.net operates? It just reads directly from memory, doesn't touch sc2. Even so, for a map hack to be of any use, you have to actually show the map underneath the fog of war. As far as I'm aware, this requires modification of the SC2 process (or perhaps OpenGL or some other library) and is therefore detectable. Otherwise I think we would be in more trouble...
Full maphack yes. But only showing production tab in a 2. window NO.
I just read the thread of the maphack cheat. Looks like you can set him in light and full mode.
So i think in light mode he is not interacting.
TO TOPIC:
For the lagcheats its total easy to detect them. So i 100% sure bliz knows about every account who is using it and just try to get more data. The sad thing is. its a exploit that was discovered in the beta already and bliz was not able to patch it until now.
They showed in all there games they ever made that they suck in anti-cheating.
@Incanus down me like i posted before . on the cheatmakers website ther are 2k replays. think about how many % of the people who dl it write a comment ... and now think over how many guys are using it..... i bet we all played many games against cheaters without knowing....
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On July 03 2011 14:49 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2011 14:47 Incanus wrote:On July 03 2011 14:29 dacthehork wrote:On July 03 2011 14:22 MichaelJLowell wrote:
Question for the people who have the technical know-how on the topic: Why is it possible to create an "undetectable maphack" in StarCraft II but not the prior Blizzard games? I presume it has to do with some function for how the new version of Battle.net operates? It just reads directly from memory, doesn't touch sc2. Even so, for a map hack to be of any use, you have to actually show the map underneath the fog of war. As far as I'm aware, this requires modification of the SC2 process (or perhaps OpenGL or some other library) and is therefore detectable. Otherwise I think we would be in more trouble... Full maphack yes. But only showing production tab in a 2. window NO. I just read the thread of the maphack cheat. Looks like you can set him in light and full mode. So i think in light mode he is not interacting.
Ah, just saw the screenshot, that makes it a bit more tricky. We may be seeing more maphackers in the future I guess. 
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Played 5 hours today, not a single drop hacker. Cheeses more rampant than ever though.
GM player ~
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A drop hacker under the name of LiquidHuk is in GM and is 97-1 (on NA server), the loss came from a drop hack. lol.
From all the matches I've looked that are under 1min.
This is in GM.
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On July 03 2011 14:25 Lochat wrote:
Man, these guys are nearly as bad as cheesers. Blizzard can't fix it soon enough.
i feel like that might be a little extreme of a position to take...
i feel like cheese definitely doesn't hurt the game nearly as much as drop hackers, and to suggest that they're not even as bad as cheesers is ridiculous.
Back on topic, i hope blizzard addresses the situation and cleans up things, i'm not personally affected, but i feel like it's just hampering the development of ESPORTS and the progression of competition in the game!
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EPT
