EPTLag hack on NA ladder - Page 33
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skunk_works
United States109 Posts
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AnalThermometer
Vatican City State334 Posts
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Provocateur
Sweden1665 Posts
On July 02 2011 19:03 HoMM wrote: I don't cheat in SC2 but I understand the mentality why someone would cheat, unlike you. "You're taking away a big part of the skill requirement, which is making conclusions out of limited information." What if that's a good thing? I know many many people on TL hate cheese. Knowing a proxy 2gate, 6pool or banshee rush is coming can turn that into "lol I pwned that cheeser nub  " instead.In addition, maphacking can help learn the gameplay of other players. You'll know the timings of everything what the other player is doing and you'll see patterns in everyones gameplay. Using those patterns you'll be able to use them to do better against opponents even when you are not cheating. + comparison to cs if anyone plays it: maphack is like a wallhack and drophack is like rage/multihack. There's your reasoning why people use drophack: to just pwn the other people without any effort. Knowing 2gate or 6pool is coming and beating it should rather turn into "lol I'm a maphacker nub". You can just as easily repel those kinds of rushes by using scouting and actually get the satisfaction out of winning because of your own skill and ability to gather and draw conclusions form information. There is no effort required in maphacking and without putting any effort in would it really feel that rewarding to win after doing nothing to accomplish it? The paragraph about learning others gameplay and timings by maphacking is also stupid. This is what normal players accomplish by watching a replay. I really don't understand how you can see these things as factors that justify using maphack. Just learn to fucking scout and you won't need maphack to defend a 6pool T.T | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On July 02 2011 19:14 AnalThermometer wrote: I'm thinking this ValiantChaos is aka Zynastor (and after some backtracing trough the interwebs it seems his name is "Jack ***") has been selling hacks for years. Didn't Blizzard want to sue this guy along with some other hackers? Seems this might be something to email to their cyberpolice. I don't think he's ever sold anything. | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
I also find it hilarious that Blizzard has gone to control the users on Bnet by only giving them 1 copy per game and region.Yet they cant even keep cheaters out óf the system. Guess it doesnt sell games. | ||
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Xolo
Canada107 Posts
In warcraft 3, maphacks were around the whole time, but it took many years for more sophisticated hacks to be developed like drops hacks and invisible building hacks, micro bots, and stuff like that. Of course Blizzard's refusal to do anything about it, including punish blatant hackers, eventually lead the the demise of competitive warcraft 3 ladder. (take a look at the 2v2 ladder on the useast server) Sc2 hasn't even been out for a year yet, and already the hacks are so sophisticated. We have public drop hacks, maphacks that show an observer panel, maphacks that show an enemy's clicks and the destinations of their units, bots that automatically micro your units and inject larva. If hacks are that crazy now, imagine how bad they're going to be in 3 years. Blizzard really needs a new system for dealing with hackers. The whole 'banning in waves' thing is trash. And they don't even perma ban players when they do that, last time most maphackers only got a 3 day suspension. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 02 2011 19:52 Xolo wrote: This just occured to me. In warcraft 3, maphacks were around the whole time, but it took many years for more sophisticated hacks to be developed like drops hacks and invisible building hacks, micro bots, and stuff like that. Of course Blizzard's refusal to do anything about it, including punish blatant hackers, eventually lead the the demise of competitive warcraft 3 ladder. (take a look at the 2v2 ladder on the useast server) Sc2 hasn't even been out for a year yet, and already the hacks are so sophisticated. We have public drop hacks, maphacks that show an observer panel, maphacks that show an enemy's clicks and the destinations of their units, bots that automatically micro your units and inject larva. If hacks are that crazy now, imagine how bad they're going to be in 3 years. Blizzard really needs a new system for dealing with hackers. The whole 'banning in waves' thing is trash. And they don't even perma ban players when they do that, last time most maphackers only got a 3 day suspension. I actually had a really interesting discussion about this very subject over dinner. Basically, because of how Blizzard has designed SC2 (no LAN, great matchmaking, etc.), they will be forced to respond decisively or competitive SC2 will most likely die. Since there are no alternative ladders or avenues to play against top players, beyond custom games, the backlash to a broken ladder will be devastating. However, don't lose hope. Blizzard has 2 more expansions to literally cover up the potholes that these programs are exploiting, and any new ones that come up. Until the final expansion comes out, Blizzard has a lot of room to improve. | ||
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VTPerfect
United States487 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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nyc863
200 Posts
"Warden" inspects regions of PC memory for known hackware signatures (like a virus scanner) but warden in itself is fairly well understood so the areas it inspects can easily be dodged. Worse, since the game data stream is not encrypted, it can be inspected by any intermediate program in real time. A map hack could even run on another machine and that machine would be the default router for a PC playing sc2. In that case, a map and army size visibility hack (good enough to destroy the ladder) would be totally invisible to anything Blizzard installs. Blizzard is not going to be able to redesign sc2 so battle resolution is done by the server with the clients using actual, not fake, fog of war. Shame, because THAT would be the real argument for no LAN play and a blizzard controlled ladder: it would be very difficult to hack. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 02 2011 20:29 nyc863 wrote: my prediction is that due to some pretty fundamental design decisions in sc2, the hacks are only going to get more prevalent. The clients speak via the server but everything is evaluated on each client, including your opponents units, their actions and positions. Since the battle resolution is done on each PC, and the PC is by its very nature an insecure platform, then the critical fog of war is broken right there, passing thru your ethernet interface, sitting in your ram. "Warden" inspects regions of PC memory for known hackware signatures (like a virus scanner) but warden in itself is fairly well understood so the areas it inspects can easily be dodged. Worse, since the game data stream is not encrypted, it can be inspected by any intermediate program in real time. A map hack could even run on another machine and that machine would be the default router for a PC playing sc2. In that case, a map and army size visibility hack (good enough to destroy the ladder) would be totally invisible to anything Blizzard installs. Blizzard is not going to be able to redesign sc2 so battle resolution is done by the server with the clients using actual, not fake, fog of war. Shame, because THAT would be the real argument for no LAN play and a blizzard controlled ladder: it would be very difficult to hack. The way Warden works now is very conservative. However, Blizzard can always ramp up the snooping of Warden to catch more sophisticated hacks. Blizzard doesn't want to get into a big privacy battle right now though. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
On July 02 2011 20:29 nyc863 wrote: my prediction is that due to some pretty fundamental design decisions in sc2, the hacks are only going to get more prevalent. The clients speak via the server but everything is evaluated on each client, including your opponents units, their actions and positions. Since the battle resolution is done on each PC, and the PC is by its very nature an insecure platform, then the critical fog of war is broken right there, passing thru your ethernet interface, sitting in your ram. "Warden" inspects regions of PC memory for known hackware signatures (like a virus scanner) but warden in itself is fairly well understood so the areas it inspects can easily be dodged. Worse, since the game data stream is not encrypted, it can be inspected by any intermediate program in real time. A map hack could even run on another machine and that machine would be the default router for a PC playing sc2. In that case, a map and army size visibility hack (good enough to destroy the ladder) would be totally invisible to anything Blizzard installs. Blizzard is not going to be able to redesign sc2 so battle resolution is done by the server with the clients using actual, not fake, fog of war. Shame, because THAT would be the real argument for no LAN play and a blizzard controlled ladder: it would be very difficult to hack. Well I don't think anyone was hoping for a LAN ladder, were they? I don't mind the blizzard ladder so much to be honest. They've done a fairly good job up until now to keep it clean. | ||
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nyc863
200 Posts
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
On July 02 2011 20:58 nyc863 wrote: i meant - everyone wants LAN play for tournaments and so on as an option. But no, they do not make their server stuff public so you can't fake battle.net atm. But for what? keeping the server secret is of no help with this design when all clients get sent all information.. Unfortunately designing it in any other way is impractical because it would take an unreasonable amount of bandwidth to work. | ||
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bigggl
Canada47 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On July 02 2011 20:58 nyc863 wrote: i meant - everyone wants LAN play for tournaments and so on as an option. But no, they do not make their server stuff public so you can't fake battle.net atm. But for what? keeping the server secret is of no help with this design when all clients get sent all information.. the tourney lan situation is unrelated to this topic, if they wanted to release a different client and only sell it to major companies like mlg and gsl they could. whether they could stop that client then somehow being leaked to the outside world is another debate. its unfortunate that theres been such a rise in hacking lately : ( | ||
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
On July 02 2011 21:16 bigggl wrote: "sixraxterran" just did it to me...... sigh. If you're a high profile streamer, he'll just drop himself (the match before, he dropped against destiny). omg... just encountered this fool... I will stop laddering for now. | ||
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bigggl
Canada47 Posts
On July 02 2011 21:46 leo23 wrote: omg... just encountered this fool... I will stop laddering for now. my exact response as well lol.... | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On July 02 2011 19:22 Robinsa wrote: I find it hilarious that people think Hayder would drop hack. I also find it hilarious that Blizzard has gone to control the users on Bnet by only giving them 1 copy per game and region.Yet they cant even keep cheaters out óf the system. Guess it doesnt sell games. What does one copy of the game have to do with anything? That maker of the hacking programs himself said most of the hackers are on trial accounts. Basically if hackers want to cheat in a game, they will. This is true of almost every online game. The only decent way to prevent it is by making everything server side like HoN, but HoN is a much smaller game than SC2 and has 10 ppl plus spectators per game rather than being based on 1v1's, so that's economically viable in HoN's case. | ||
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