On June 13 2011 04:51 ROOTFayth wrote: so minigun beating kiwi in the root invitational finals a while ago and him beating idra 2-1 in the latest clan war and him qualifying for last IPL by beating hasuobs and other good players i believe doesn't count?
is MLG the only thing that people really care about?
Since esports became big, lan results have really only been the only thing that matters. Online events are cool and all but champions are made at lan
Well then, I guess we differ here, online results count just as well, even though I enjoy LAN tournaments more and believe there is more pressure in this format, it doesn't mean I discredit the online accomplishments of players considering how many big online tournaments there are.
Also, as said earlier, we don't know the financial specifics of this deal, so speculation there is kind of pointless, but I will point out once again that the players they acquired(regardless of the absence of Kiwikaki and Slush) are comparable with, or better than the best players on their own roster.
Like I said earlier, once again though, I feel it's a weird situation for fans since ROOT is no longer ROOT and Complexity is no longer Complexity, the members of ROOT will no doubt shake up the line-up and this will no doubt draw attention away from the original members of Complexity, essentially it's some dilution of the value of both teams individually which creates a new potentially stronger team as a whole but it's not really ROOT and it's not really Complexity. Moving forward we'll see if this pairing really is beneficial for both parties, but for now I wish the new Complexity good luck and I'll reserve major judgement until we see how it turns out.
On June 13 2011 04:51 ROOTFayth wrote: so minigun beating kiwi in the root invitational finals a while ago and him beating idra 2-1 in the latest clan war and him qualifying for last IPL by beating hasuobs and other good players i believe doesn't count?
is MLG the only thing that people really care about?
Minigun's root invitational finals was a prepatch PvP (aka 4 gate coin flip) he won against IdrA in ONE set of the match. and he didnt even win the IPL 2 qualifier. (he placed 3rd)and none of them were LAN settings.
He's beaten IdrA in more than the EGMC. He placed third behind other great players, and has done well in a number of tournaments. I don't really see the argument here, is it simply that he doesn't have LAN experience? Alright, acknowledged. He's still a great fucking player.
Are you saying Combatex is good then? he's taken a few wins off IdrA and done well in Tourneys (the collegiate starleague before he got kicked off lolz) im sure you dont think combatex is good. (me neither) nor is he in the same league as minigun (i dont think so either) but your logic follows what i said, so i'd reevaluate your reasoning why you think he's good. cuz your evidence doesnt add up.
On June 13 2011 04:40 tadL wrote: so col tried to get top players of root but their two top players didnt come, bad deal for col.
you make it sound like they didn't know what they were buying, im sure they knew in advance and still aquired root
Lets look at the reality of this. CoL was a mediocre team, not only would Complexity benefit from getting heavy hitters on their team, it also benefits Root as well who has had a history of struggling financially. However, when you don't get those heavy hitters who are frankly most likely going perform better over the rest of the lot, it is an utterly bad business decision on Complexity's part when you don't get that prime aspect of the deal.
Let me tell you, Root came out on top of this deal. They will most likely be better off merging with Complexity for financial sake. However, without Kiwi or slush, Complexity is just spending a lot more money than they need to be.
stop speculating jesus you have no idea how much col is investing or really how much catz/drew/minigun/destiny/ddoro are worth
so how much are they worth? please share your thoughts with the community.
As much as I dislike the move, it is not in the public's position to go about asking for contract details or specifics on player value etc. That's liek asking someone how much money they make, or asking a lady what her age is. Just not appropriate.
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
On June 13 2011 05:14 DueSs wrote: lmfao at the "sold out" discussion. "Sold out" conversations always kinda make me giggle. People that have the chance to make their livelihood better by making a decision (e.g., join a major record label, join a gaming team, etc., etc., etc.) they're going to do it. Much to the chagrin of us commoners/spectators pro-gamers want to play games for a living. Obviously Complexity Gaming is helping that effort with the acquisition of ROOT.
ROOT did not "sell out"; they made a decision that they believe will advance their career. Things change. "Selling out" only means you're making progress, imo. But whatever, flame on.
Root didn't sell out. They made a smart business decision, that's the bottom line. coL on the other hand made the worst decision by not acquiring the ace players that they were already lacking. Now all they tacked on was more dead weight honestly. Unless Catz and co. start to win anything, it is an increasingly bad decision for coL.
I know bringing in a bunch of new viewers/fans. horrible!
The only one in that lot that is going bring in new viewership is destiny. It astounds me though, you create an SC2 team to win tournaments and promote your sponsors. When your players DO NOT produce results, is your team at the end of the day successful? Of course not, your team is nothing if you don't produce results. People care about destiny because he's fun to listen to. Everyone else, wat.
Also, I apologize to anyone who are fans of these players. However, if they don't have the results to get more fans/attention. What is the point?
On June 13 2011 04:40 tadL wrote: so col tried to get top players of root but their two top players didnt come, bad deal for col.
you make it sound like they didn't know what they were buying, im sure they knew in advance and still aquired root
Lets look at the reality of this. CoL was a mediocre team, not only would Complexity benefit from getting heavy hitters on their team, it also benefits Root as well who has had a history of struggling financially. However, when you don't get those heavy hitters who are frankly most likely going perform better over the rest of the lot, it is an utterly bad business decision on Complexity's part when you don't get that prime aspect of the deal.
Let me tell you, Root came out on top of this deal. They will most likely be better off merging with Complexity for financial sake. However, without Kiwi or slush, Complexity is just spending a lot more money than they need to be.
stop speculating jesus you have no idea how much col is investing or really how much catz/drew/minigun/destiny/ddoro are worth
so how much are they worth? please share your thoughts with the community.
As much as I dislike the move, it is not in the public's position to go about asking for contract details or specifics on player value etc. That's liek asking someone how much money they make, or asking a lady what her age is. Just not appropriate.
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
ask any team about their contracts and they wont say anything
On June 13 2011 04:51 ROOTFayth wrote: so minigun beating kiwi in the root invitational finals a while ago and him beating idra 2-1 in the latest clan war and him qualifying for last IPL by beating hasuobs and other good players i believe doesn't count?
is MLG the only thing that people really care about?
Since esports became big, lan results have really only been the only thing that matters. Online events are cool and all but champions are made at lan
Well then, I guess we differ here, online results count just as well, even though I enjoy LAN tournaments more and believe there is more pressure in this format, it doesn't mean I discredit the online accomplishments of players considering how many big online tournaments there are.
Also, as said earlier, we don't know the financial specifics of this deal, so speculation there is kind of pointless, but I will point out once again that the players they acquired(regardless of the absence of Kiwikaki and Slush) are comparable with, or better than the best players on their own roster.
Like I said earlier, once again though, I feel it's a weird situation for fans since ROOT is no longer ROOT and Complexity is no longer Complexity, the members of ROOT will no doubt shake up the line-up and this will no doubt draw attention away from the original members of Complexity, essentially it's some dilution of the value of both teams individually which creates a new potentially stronger team as a whole but it's not really ROOT and it's not really Complexity. Moving forward we'll see if this pairing really is beneficial for both parties, but for now I wish the new Complexity good luck and I'll reserve major judgement until we see how it turns out.
On June 13 2011 05:10 cavalier117 wrote:
On June 13 2011 04:51 ROOTFayth wrote: so minigun beating kiwi in the root invitational finals a while ago and him beating idra 2-1 in the latest clan war and him qualifying for last IPL by beating hasuobs and other good players i believe doesn't count?
is MLG the only thing that people really care about?
Minigun's root invitational finals was a prepatch PvP (aka 4 gate coin flip) he won against IdrA in ONE set of the match. and he didnt even win the IPL 2 qualifier. (he placed 3rd)and none of them were LAN settings.
He's beaten IdrA in more than the EGMC. He placed third behind other great players, and has done well in a number of tournaments. I don't really see the argument here, is it simply that he doesn't have LAN experience? Alright, acknowledged. He's still a great fucking player.
Are you saying Combatex is good then? he's taken a few wins off IdrA and done well in Tourneys (the collegiate starleague before he got kicked off lolz) im sure you dont think combatex is good. (me neither) nor is he in the same league as minigun (i dont think so either) but your logic follows what i said, so i'd reevaluate your reasoning why you think he's good. cuz your evidence doesnt add up.
Wait, what? I thought we were being reasonable here, by this move let's discredit everyone without top wins in LAN tournaments, you'd get left with like 4 or 5 players you could call good in all of North America. Combatex has taken wins of IdrA, in what tournaments or show matches? In what tournaments has he done well in? Getting kicked off the collegiate starleague clearly isn't an accomplishment, he doesn't even have a TLPD page. Don't try to use shitty logic to discredit a really good player.
On June 13 2011 04:40 tadL wrote: so col tried to get top players of root but their two top players didnt come, bad deal for col.
you make it sound like they didn't know what they were buying, im sure they knew in advance and still aquired root
Lets look at the reality of this. CoL was a mediocre team, not only would Complexity benefit from getting heavy hitters on their team, it also benefits Root as well who has had a history of struggling financially. However, when you don't get those heavy hitters who are frankly most likely going perform better over the rest of the lot, it is an utterly bad business decision on Complexity's part when you don't get that prime aspect of the deal.
Let me tell you, Root came out on top of this deal. They will most likely be better off merging with Complexity for financial sake. However, without Kiwi or slush, Complexity is just spending a lot more money than they need to be.
stop speculating jesus you have no idea how much col is investing or really how much catz/drew/minigun/destiny/ddoro are worth
so how much are they worth? please share your thoughts with the community.
As much as I dislike the move, it is not in the public's position to go about asking for contract details or specifics on player value etc. That's liek asking someone how much money they make, or asking a lady what her age is. Just not appropriate.
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
Uh, that's not how it works with contractual agreements in professional businesses.
:/ I'm sad that Root Gaming is gone, that team had so much personality and I feel like that they just sold out. Now they don't have that underdog team feel, they just have a big gaming team. Complexity Gaming won't be anything close to Root Gaming but the team produces big results and all its players get better :D Best of luck Complexity gaming
R.I.P. Root Gaming :'(
Now I need to find a new team to be a fan of maybe EG or FXO -_-
On June 13 2011 05:07 Odal wrote: It feels like the little underdog team is getting taken over by the big corporation. Makes me sad =(
I totally understand why you would feel that way. However, we weren't always this "big." It was us- against-the-world and we worked very hard over the years. For me it's with mixed feelings that I hear people call us a "big corporation." In a way it makes me sad but in another way it makes me feel that perhaps we have succeeded on some level.
GL to everyone that was in ROOT. Sucks that not everyone made it over for whatever reasons. I don't think it would be so bittersweet if they had all made the move together since they felt like a family to me.
I'll still be watching their streams and ROOTing for them!
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
Dead wrong. On the contrary, most teams include a clause that specifically states you are not allowed to talk about the contents, elevengaming included.
I hope we see Kiwikaki and Slush join up with FXO but I think they might join Sixjax but hopefully we see them in FXO, mainly cause I want to see them in the GSL team league
On June 13 2011 04:40 tadL wrote: so col tried to get top players of root but their two top players didnt come, bad deal for col.
you make it sound like they didn't know what they were buying, im sure they knew in advance and still aquired root
Lets look at the reality of this. CoL was a mediocre team, not only would Complexity benefit from getting heavy hitters on their team, it also benefits Root as well who has had a history of struggling financially. However, when you don't get those heavy hitters who are frankly most likely going perform better over the rest of the lot, it is an utterly bad business decision on Complexity's part when you don't get that prime aspect of the deal.
Let me tell you, Root came out on top of this deal. They will most likely be better off merging with Complexity for financial sake. However, without Kiwi or slush, Complexity is just spending a lot more money than they need to be.
stop speculating jesus you have no idea how much col is investing or really how much catz/drew/minigun/destiny/ddoro are worth
so how much are they worth? please share your thoughts with the community.
As much as I dislike the move, it is not in the public's position to go about asking for contract details or specifics on player value etc. That's liek asking someone how much money they make, or asking a lady what her age is. Just not appropriate.
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
ask any team about their contracts and they wont say anything
because in their contract is a confidentiality agreement that they must adhere to.(that the team put in to hide exactly what benefits said player is recieving to keep their competitors in the dark so its harder for them to "outbid" them on the player. not bc they have some kind of moral code. Learn basic business models before posting.
On June 13 2011 05:14 DueSs wrote: lmfao at the "sold out" discussion. "Sold out" conversations always kinda make me giggle. People that have the chance to make their livelihood better by making a decision (e.g., join a major record label, join a gaming team, etc., etc., etc.) they're going to do it. Much to the chagrin of us commoners/spectators pro-gamers want to play games for a living. Obviously Complexity Gaming is helping that effort with the acquisition of ROOT.
ROOT did not "sell out"; they made a decision that they believe will advance their career. Things change. "Selling out" only means you're making progress, imo. But whatever, flame on.
Root didn't sell out. They made a smart business decision, that's the bottom line. coL on the other hand made the worst decision by not acquiring the ace players that they were already lacking. Now all they tacked on was more dead weight honestly. Unless Catz and co. start to win anything, it is an increasingly bad decision for coL.
I know bringing in a bunch of new viewers/fans. horrible!
The only one in that lot that is going bring in new viewership is destiny. It astounds me though, you create an SC2 team to win tournaments and promote your sponsors. When your players DO NOT produce results, is your team at the end of the day successful? Of course not, your team is nothing if you don't produce results. People care about destiny because he's fun to listen to. Everyone else, wat.
Also, I apologize to anyone who are fans of these players. However, if they don't have the results to get more fans/attention. What is the point?
They have more results and accomplishments, and are generally stronger players than the current meat of the Complexity roster, which is what matters at this point. You could go into any fucking acquisition and be like, "Well, it's not SeleCT". Yeah, they didn't get Slush or Kiwikaki, that doesn't make the people they did get shitty pickups or as you put it, "Dead weight".
On June 13 2011 04:40 tadL wrote: so col tried to get top players of root but their two top players didnt come, bad deal for col.
you make it sound like they didn't know what they were buying, im sure they knew in advance and still aquired root
Lets look at the reality of this. CoL was a mediocre team, not only would Complexity benefit from getting heavy hitters on their team, it also benefits Root as well who has had a history of struggling financially. However, when you don't get those heavy hitters who are frankly most likely going perform better over the rest of the lot, it is an utterly bad business decision on Complexity's part when you don't get that prime aspect of the deal.
Let me tell you, Root came out on top of this deal. They will most likely be better off merging with Complexity for financial sake. However, without Kiwi or slush, Complexity is just spending a lot more money than they need to be.
stop speculating jesus you have no idea how much col is investing or really how much catz/drew/minigun/destiny/ddoro are worth
so how much are they worth? please share your thoughts with the community.
As much as I dislike the move, it is not in the public's position to go about asking for contract details or specifics on player value etc. That's liek asking someone how much money they make, or asking a lady what her age is. Just not appropriate.
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
ask any team about their contracts and they wont say anything
because in their contract is a confidentiality agreement that they must adhere to.(that the team put in to hide exactly what benefits said player is recieving to keep their competitors in the dark so its harder for them to "outbid" them on the player. not bc they have some kind of moral code. Learn basic business models before posting.
Why would it be different for Complexity? No other team shares their salaries publicly either(that I know off).
Today compLexity Gaming is thrilled to announce that we have acquired ROOT Gaming and the majority of the roster. For quite some time we have been pursuing this extremely talented group of gamers. Recently we were able to come to an agreement and we are very confident this is a large step in our journey towards greatness in StarCraft 2.
Edward Chang – Manager
Paulo “CatZ” Vizcarra Andrew “drewbie” Moysey Chad “Minigun” Jones Steven “Destiny” Bonnell II Jung Ho “DdoRo” Moon
As many of the ROOT faithful will notice, Kiwikaki and Slush chose not to make the move. We assure you that both compLexity and ROOT management made all possible efforts to keep the squad together. In the end they decided to pursue another opportunity and we wish them the best of luck.
“We couldn’t be more excited about this addition,” said Jason Lake, CEO of compLexity Gaming. “Building a championship division takes time, patience and the right combination of players and management. The intangibles this group possesses and the passion with which it engages StarCraft 2 will definitely get us that much closer to being a top global contender. We’re not done building our SC2 division, but this was a big leap forward.”
Edward Chang, Managing Director of ROOT Gaming had this to say: "We are very excited to join forces with compLexity Gaming. They've been a huge name for many years in many different fields, and I've personally known Jason for a long time. Joining up will help bolster the coL.SC2 roster and allow our players to focus on becoming the best in North America. We tried what we could to keep the team intact, and we wish Paul and Jo the best in their gaming careers. For all of the ROOT fans, please stick with us through this transition and cheer on compLexity!"
In my opinion, ROOT without Slush and Kiwi is just not a championship division. The roster is solid, but until these players can show results in tournaments, I don't think this is a good acquisition for coL.
On June 13 2011 04:40 tadL wrote: so col tried to get top players of root but their two top players didnt come, bad deal for col.
you make it sound like they didn't know what they were buying, im sure they knew in advance and still aquired root
Lets look at the reality of this. CoL was a mediocre team, not only would Complexity benefit from getting heavy hitters on their team, it also benefits Root as well who has had a history of struggling financially. However, when you don't get those heavy hitters who are frankly most likely going perform better over the rest of the lot, it is an utterly bad business decision on Complexity's part when you don't get that prime aspect of the deal.
Let me tell you, Root came out on top of this deal. They will most likely be better off merging with Complexity for financial sake. However, without Kiwi or slush, Complexity is just spending a lot more money than they need to be.
stop speculating jesus you have no idea how much col is investing or really how much catz/drew/minigun/destiny/ddoro are worth
so how much are they worth? please share your thoughts with the community.
As much as I dislike the move, it is not in the public's position to go about asking for contract details or specifics on player value etc. That's liek asking someone how much money they make, or asking a lady what her age is. Just not appropriate.
sorry, but if your afraid to answer a question like that. your either embarassed about it, or hiding something. if you thought it was a great move. you would be ecstatic to share the details. i dont see where appropriateness fits in. if everybody involved in the deal is satisfied.
ask any team about their contracts and they wont say anything
because in their contract is a confidentiality agreement that they must adhere to.(that the team put in to hide exactly what benefits said player is recieving to keep their competitors in the dark so its harder for them to "outbid" them on the player. not bc they have some kind of moral code. Learn basic business models before posting.
You confuse me. First you say they wont talk about it becasue they're embarresed...now your saying its becaue its just basic buisness and no team would...make up your mind?
Awesome move from complexity's part as the only player that was doing somewhat well from their old roster was Cruncher, Stalife have had some results but it the star player have been cruncher!
I hope for Kiwi and slush that they join a powerhouse team like Dignitas, Dignitas is lacking a good Zerg so that can be a good move for everyone. But most likely is that they join FXO or Sixjax
On June 13 2011 04:51 ROOTFayth wrote: so minigun beating kiwi in the root invitational finals a while ago and him beating idra 2-1 in the latest clan war and him qualifying for last IPL by beating hasuobs and other good players i believe doesn't count?
is MLG the only thing that people really care about?
Since esports became big, lan results have really only been the only thing that matters. Online events are cool and all but champions are made at lan
Well then, I guess we differ here, online results count just as well, even though I enjoy LAN tournaments more and believe there is more pressure in this format, it doesn't mean I discredit the online accomplishments of players considering how many big online tournaments there are.
Also, as said earlier, we don't know the financial specifics of this deal, so speculation there is kind of pointless, but I will point out once again that the players they acquired(regardless of the absence of Kiwikaki and Slush) are comparable with, or better than the best players on their own roster.
Like I said earlier, once again though, I feel it's a weird situation for fans since ROOT is no longer ROOT and Complexity is no longer Complexity, the members of ROOT will no doubt shake up the line-up and this will no doubt draw attention away from the original members of Complexity, essentially it's some dilution of the value of both teams individually which creates a new potentially stronger team as a whole but it's not really ROOT and it's not really Complexity. Moving forward we'll see if this pairing really is beneficial for both parties, but for now I wish the new Complexity good luck and I'll reserve major judgement until we see how it turns out.
On June 13 2011 05:10 cavalier117 wrote:
On June 13 2011 04:51 ROOTFayth wrote: so minigun beating kiwi in the root invitational finals a while ago and him beating idra 2-1 in the latest clan war and him qualifying for last IPL by beating hasuobs and other good players i believe doesn't count?
is MLG the only thing that people really care about?
Minigun's root invitational finals was a prepatch PvP (aka 4 gate coin flip) he won against IdrA in ONE set of the match. and he didnt even win the IPL 2 qualifier. (he placed 3rd)and none of them were LAN settings.
He's beaten IdrA in more than the EGMC. He placed third behind other great players, and has done well in a number of tournaments. I don't really see the argument here, is it simply that he doesn't have LAN experience? Alright, acknowledged. He's still a great fucking player.
Are you saying Combatex is good then? he's taken a few wins off IdrA and done well in Tourneys (the collegiate starleague before he got kicked off lolz) im sure you dont think combatex is good. (me neither) nor is he in the same league as minigun (i dont think so either) but your logic follows what i said, so i'd reevaluate your reasoning why you think he's good. cuz your evidence doesnt add up.
Wait, what? I thought we were being reasonable here, by this move let's discredit everyone without top wins in LAN tournaments, you'd get left with like 4 or 5 players you could call good in all of North America. Combatex has taken wins of IdrA, in what tournaments or show matches? In what tournaments has he done well in? Getting kicked off the collegiate starleague clearly isn't an accomplishment, he doesn't even have a TLPD page. Don't try to use shitty logic to discredit a really good player.
you really need to google Combatex, he, like minigun has taken wins off IdrA on the ladder. he hasnt beat IdrA in a tourny, but minigun hasnt WON any money in tourney (at least, yet) for beating IdrA so thats not very relevant. and bo3 doesnt make a trend. as for the CSL. he was pretty much the Ace player of the university of waterloo (the best college in the league) before getting kicked off bc hes an idiot. as for the lack for of a TLPD page. im pretty sure a paticular TL admin has something to do with it (chill)
EPT
for them!
