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On June 12 2011 19:07 decaf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:04 SEANSYE wrote:On June 12 2011 19:02 decaf wrote:
If they'd stream IdrA talking to Dustin Browder I'm sure 50k people would tune it to watch it. If they took IdrA's advice I would have to go shoot Dustin Browder. Can you elaborate on that a bit more? IdrA's advice isn't in favor of Zerg, he seeks for overall balance - it was him suggesting nerfing the roach during the beta so I'd like to see you backing that statement up.
The same guy who prematurely leaves games? or doesn't even give an effort when he is a little bit behind. Like InControl said, "he plays like a robot".
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On June 12 2011 19:17 SEANSYE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:07 decaf wrote:On June 12 2011 19:04 SEANSYE wrote:On June 12 2011 19:02 decaf wrote:
If they'd stream IdrA talking to Dustin Browder I'm sure 50k people would tune it to watch it. If they took IdrA's advice I would have to go shoot Dustin Browder. Can you elaborate on that a bit more? IdrA's advice isn't in favor of Zerg, he seeks for overall balance - it was him suggesting nerfing the roach during the beta so I'd like to see you backing that statement up. The same guy who prematurely leaves games? or doesn't even give an effort when he is a little bit behind. Like InControl said, "he plays like a robot".
Can you elaborate on how this makes him any less credible?
IdrA did not know about MMA blowing up his own CC and for him it was the perfect reaction to someone not "sucking". IdrA still gives the best advice.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
I feel like this thread is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to shit on the game for no reason =/ comments like "dustin bowder is the reason sc2 is terrible" are just so far from the trust its insane... the quotes from sen about balance, well, I think SC2 is pretty well balanced for being less than a year old. It's not perfect but all races are at least playable at the top level. Re: marauder, roach, immortal - the stigma against these units its pretty unjustified. Yes the roach and the marauder are very powerful units but theres nothing wrong with either of them =/ why are they hated? because they're so damn effective. If you were to ask people what was the most "uninteresting" unit when the void ray was still way OP then I'm sure the VR would be up there as "uninteresting". Sorry but your entire post is just bias and wrong ...
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On June 12 2011 19:17 SEANSYE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:07 decaf wrote:On June 12 2011 19:04 SEANSYE wrote:On June 12 2011 19:02 decaf wrote:
If they'd stream IdrA talking to Dustin Browder I'm sure 50k people would tune it to watch it. If they took IdrA's advice I would have to go shoot Dustin Browder. Can you elaborate on that a bit more? IdrA's advice isn't in favor of Zerg, he seeks for overall balance - it was him suggesting nerfing the roach during the beta so I'd like to see you backing that statement up. The same guy who prematurely leaves games? or doesn't even give an effort when he is a little bit behind. Like InControl said, "he plays like a robot".
How does that have anything to do with his take on game balance?
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If anything i think this and all the other hardcore communities are out of touch rather than Blizzard
Every game has its own online community that is, for their own good, too hardcore and tend often to not see the big picture.
You may think this is just online games that have a large esport following but i can give you an example of even the Silent Hill community who argues and demands that Team Silent and Konami redo some of the games and still after 10 years explain what this or that meant in Silent Hill 2.
There isent a developer out there who is more in touch with its community than Blizzard, their constant updates for their games, even ancient ones like Diablo 2 and BW would make most other devs and publishers slit their own wrists by the mere thought of having to update or rebalance. Yet Blizzard does it
SC2 is not BW, and because Blizzard still supports BW (hey can you play Halo 2 online on Xbox Live? No you cant, cause they do not support it) means that SC2 can and should be different than Brood War as the choice is always which you rather play.
I used Halo 2 as an example but it is common in console gaming to eventually yank the servers down for even the most popular games so people are forced to go out and buy the newest release. Blizzard has not done this to any of their games, Brood War is right there, as is Diablo 1 and Warcraft 2.
I remember alot of people in beta for SC2 bashing the game on a constant basis, wanting it to fail badly, having some sort of elitist grudge against Bowder because he was not there when Brood War was made thus he had no "right" to make the sequal to your game.
All that hate aside, the sales numbers and the large esports community behind SC2 shows that Bowder got 1-0 all the people who wanted him to fail.
And let us not forget what happened to Warcraft 3 and how that game (despite having no Dustin Bowder) did not manage to capture the esports community as much as SC2 has done so far. So clearly Bowder has taken Blizzard RTS games and put them back on track where they should be
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On June 12 2011 18:38 Huludite wrote:
Why isn't the Colossus interesting? Mobile, fragile aoe is very interesting in high dps fights in my opinion
Because AOE siege unit should not be that mobile just because they have the wekness to be able to be hit by air weapons.
Lurker had to burrow, Tanks need to siege, Broodlords and Templar are slow as hell.
Colossi are Ultra mobile siege aoe unit with a fancy weakness, that's bad design.
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they're certainly not out of touch with the billions of dollars they're making. just saying
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On June 12 2011 19:20 Plexa wrote:
I feel like this thread is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to shit on the game for no reason =/ comments like "dustin bowder is the reason sc2 is terrible" are just so far from the trust its insane... the quotes from sen about balance, well, I think SC2 is pretty well balanced for being less than a year old. It's not perfect but all races are at least playable at the top level. Re: marauder, roach, immortal - the stigma against these units its pretty unjustified. Yes the roach and the marauder are very powerful units but theres nothing wrong with either of them =/ why are they hated? because they're so damn effective. If you were to ask people what was the most "uninteresting" unit when the void ray was still way OP then I'm sure the VR would be up there as "uninteresting". Sorry but your entire post is just bias and wrong ...
you only reply to part of his post and then say it's entirely wrong... fact is that blizz is not rly listening to the community (i feel this is they main point actually) and sticks their head in the sand... no need to deny it, best example is bnet 2 which still lacks so much functionality, but also in sc2 there are numerous things that the community would like to see changed, but won't happen... they just seem to deny there is an issue... i agree on your part about the units tho, it's balanced they are hated cause they are quite effective... still it's nowhere near perfect so there's lots of room for improvement...
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On June 12 2011 19:20 Plexa wrote:
I feel like this thread is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to shit on the game for no reason =/ comments like "dustin bowder is the reason sc2 is terrible" are just so far from the trust its insane... the quotes from sen about balance, well, I think SC2 is pretty well balanced for being less than a year old. It's not perfect but all races are at least playable at the top level. Re: marauder, roach, immortal - the stigma against these units its pretty unjustified. Yes the roach and the marauder are very powerful units but theres nothing wrong with either of them =/ why are they hated? because they're so damn effective. If you were to ask people what was the most "uninteresting" unit when the void ray was still way OP then I'm sure the VR would be up there as "uninteresting". Sorry but your entire post is just bias and wrong ...
I'd rather say that its a bunch of people disappointed that their favorite game is not heading where it should be.
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On June 12 2011 19:21 LydD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:17 SEANSYE wrote:On June 12 2011 19:07 decaf wrote:On June 12 2011 19:04 SEANSYE wrote:On June 12 2011 19:02 decaf wrote:
If they'd stream IdrA talking to Dustin Browder I'm sure 50k people would tune it to watch it. If they took IdrA's advice I would have to go shoot Dustin Browder. Can you elaborate on that a bit more? IdrA's advice isn't in favor of Zerg, he seeks for overall balance - it was him suggesting nerfing the roach during the beta so I'd like to see you backing that statement up. The same guy who prematurely leaves games? or doesn't even give an effort when he is a little bit behind. Like InControl said, "he plays like a robot". How does that have anything to do with his take on game balance?
Well what kind of balance has he suggested? All I've heard from him are the lack of scouting for zerg early game. The rest are Protoss OP, Protoss not suppose to beat zerg, forcefield imba, buildings can kill a race. He's QQ'er... and thinks he would be the best if he actually played protoss instead of zerg which is bullshit.
He even admits he doesn't practice as hard anymore and says the game is too easy. But look at the koreans who practice like 10+ hours everday and thats why they always get the best results.
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I think your biggest problem is that you consider the majority or the "hivemind" to actually know everything better. On TL for example the hivemind seems to think that SC2 needs to be as close to BW as possible, or else it will fail. The most common balance suggestion is to make everything like it was in BW, but why would the game need to copy everything from BW to be successful?
Yet still only as a year old SC2 feels very balanced to me, and in the current patch more balanced than it has ever been. I don't feel like there's been a single big blunder Blizzard has done in balancing the game since the beta, so they can hardly be blamed for being terribly out of touch. People just go out of they way to complain about things that would take extreme measures to fix, not really understanding that you can't just remove/nerf colossus and expect everything to go a-okay. Blizzard has worked years to achieve the very balanced situation we are in now, I think they deserve some credit.
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On June 12 2011 19:30 okrane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:20 Plexa wrote:
I feel like this thread is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to shit on the game for no reason =/ comments like "dustin bowder is the reason sc2 is terrible" are just so far from the trust its insane... the quotes from sen about balance, well, I think SC2 is pretty well balanced for being less than a year old. It's not perfect but all races are at least playable at the top level. Re: marauder, roach, immortal - the stigma against these units its pretty unjustified. Yes the roach and the marauder are very powerful units but theres nothing wrong with either of them =/ why are they hated? because they're so damn effective. If you were to ask people what was the most "uninteresting" unit when the void ray was still way OP then I'm sure the VR would be up there as "uninteresting". Sorry but your entire post is just bias and wrong ...
I'd rather say that its a bunch of people disappointed that their favorite game is not heading where it should be.
Yeah, why isn't this game being remade into Brood War with HD graphics, and into something else entirely? That's what everyone on this forum wants right? An updated Brood War?
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Threads like these make me so sad. Why must there always be a bunch of vocal people claiming the people behind THE VERY GAME THAT IS THE REASON YOU ARE HERE is stupid/incompetent/dont know what they're doing. If that was the case, you wouldnt be here. Starcraft would only be another random shit game which gets released and then forgotten a few months later. And we're also talking about the company which made the warcraft, diablo and WoW series.
How can you even live with yourself trying to make them out as incompetent? Im honestly baffled those thoughts can go through peoples minds. And whats up with trying to put all the blame on one person? Holy crap do you have any idea whatsoever about how Blizzard work? And do you think this one guy is in charge of everything and make stupid calls and then an army of blind followers carry out those stupid calls and implement them in the game? Seriously, what world are you living in? And on top of it people sit back in their chair at home and claim to know better. What. Is. Worng. With. You?
And yes, constructive criticism is good. But reasoning that problems exist because the makers of the far most successful esport game and some of the most classic game titles ever are incompetent, I dont have words for it.
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I think i will never understand, why people have the feeling, that their opinion matters in any way, concerning the design of Starcraft 2. In the end we are the consumer of Starcraft. Just like in other areas of life, if you are not happy with the product provided by a company it is your choice to not use it. However for some strange reason, people feel that with Starcraft 2, they should be allowed to have influence on the way the Game is designed.
Do you guys feel, that you should have an influence on your local grocerie store and their selection of fruit?
And from where do you get the feeling that their opinion is more valid than what the people, working at Blizzard, think?
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On June 12 2011 19:41 Kreb wrote:
Threads like these make me so sad. Why must there always be a bunch of vocal people claiming the people behind THE VERY GAME THAT IS THE REASON YOU ARE HERE is stupid/incompetent/dont know what they're doing. If that was the case, you wouldnt be here. Starcraft would only be another random shit game which gets released and then forgotten a few months later. And we're also talking about the company which made the warcraft, diablo and WoW series.
How can you even live with yourself trying to make them out as incompetent? Im honestly baffled those thoughts can go through peoples minds. And whats up with trying to put all the blame on one person? Holy crap do you have any idea whatsoever about how Blizzard work? And do you think this one guy is in charge of everything and make stupid calls and then an army of blind followers carry out those stupid calls and implement them in the game? Seriously, what world are you living in? And on top of it people sit back in their chair at home and claim to know better. What. Is. Worng. With. You?
And yes, constructive criticism is good. But reasoning that problems exist because the makers of the far most successful esport game and some of the most classic game titles ever are incompetent, I dont have words for it.
BW was a fluke made by different people and SC2 merely copied the magical formula that made it so successful. Making a good game based off the best RTS ever made is not an impressive feat.
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On June 12 2011 19:20 Plexa wrote:
I feel like this thread is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to shit on the game for no reason =/ comments like "dustin bowder is the reason sc2 is terrible" are just so far from the trust its insane... the quotes from sen about balance, well, I think SC2 is pretty well balanced for being less than a year old. It's not perfect but all races are at least playable at the top level. Re: marauder, roach, immortal - the stigma against these units its pretty unjustified. Yes the roach and the marauder are very powerful units but theres nothing wrong with either of them =/ why are they hated? because they're so damn effective. If you were to ask people what was the most "uninteresting" unit when the void ray was still way OP then I'm sure the VR would be up there as "uninteresting". Sorry but your entire post is just bias and wrong ...
This. And then theres also a poll about "uninteresting units" and at the end of the poll he states that the colossus is much more "hated" than those Blizz mentioned? What? The poll was about uninteresting units? Not hated? Where did hated come from at all?
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On June 12 2011 19:42 Ezekyle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:41 Kreb wrote:
Threads like these make me so sad. Why must there always be a bunch of vocal people claiming the people behind THE VERY GAME THAT IS THE REASON YOU ARE HERE is stupid/incompetent/dont know what they're doing. If that was the case, you wouldnt be here. Starcraft would only be another random shit game which gets released and then forgotten a few months later. And we're also talking about the company which made the warcraft, diablo and WoW series.
How can you even live with yourself trying to make them out as incompetent? Im honestly baffled those thoughts can go through peoples minds. And whats up with trying to put all the blame on one person? Holy crap do you have any idea whatsoever about how Blizzard work? And do you think this one guy is in charge of everything and make stupid calls and then an army of blind followers carry out those stupid calls and implement them in the game? Seriously, what world are you living in? And on top of it people sit back in their chair at home and claim to know better. What. Is. Worng. With. You?
And yes, constructive criticism is good. But reasoning that problems exist because the makers of the far most successful esport game and some of the most classic game titles ever are incompetent, I dont have words for it. BW was a fluke made by different people and SC2 merely copied the magical formula that made it so successful. Making a good game based off the best RTS ever made is not an impressive feat.
I like you.
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On June 12 2011 19:42 Ezekyle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:41 Kreb wrote:
Threads like these make me so sad. Why must there always be a bunch of vocal people claiming the people behind THE VERY GAME THAT IS THE REASON YOU ARE HERE is stupid/incompetent/dont know what they're doing. If that was the case, you wouldnt be here. Starcraft would only be another random shit game which gets released and then forgotten a few months later. And we're also talking about the company which made the warcraft, diablo and WoW series.
How can you even live with yourself trying to make them out as incompetent? Im honestly baffled those thoughts can go through peoples minds. And whats up with trying to put all the blame on one person? Holy crap do you have any idea whatsoever about how Blizzard work? And do you think this one guy is in charge of everything and make stupid calls and then an army of blind followers carry out those stupid calls and implement them in the game? Seriously, what world are you living in? And on top of it people sit back in their chair at home and claim to know better. What. Is. Worng. With. You?
And yes, constructive criticism is good. But reasoning that problems exist because the makers of the far most successful esport game and some of the most classic game titles ever are incompetent, I dont have words for it. BW was a fluke made by different people and SC2 merely copied the magical formula that made it so successful. Making a good game based off the best RTS ever made is not an impressive feat.
Sources please? How do you know it was different people? How do you know their work was just about copying the magic formula of BW? Hell, what is the magic formula of BW anyway?
Oh, and I very much disagree with it being unimpressive. Why dont you think more people do it then?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On June 12 2011 19:29 Kaolla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:20 Plexa wrote:
I feel like this thread is nothing more than a bunch of people trying to shit on the game for no reason =/ comments like "dustin bowder is the reason sc2 is terrible" are just so far from the trust its insane... the quotes from sen about balance, well, I think SC2 is pretty well balanced for being less than a year old. It's not perfect but all races are at least playable at the top level. Re: marauder, roach, immortal - the stigma against these units its pretty unjustified. Yes the roach and the marauder are very powerful units but theres nothing wrong with either of them =/ why are they hated? because they're so damn effective. If you were to ask people what was the most "uninteresting" unit when the void ray was still way OP then I'm sure the VR would be up there as "uninteresting". Sorry but your entire post is just bias and wrong ...
you only reply to part of his post and then say it's entirely wrong... fact is that blizz is not rly listening to the community (i feel this is they main point actually) and sticks their head in the sand... no need to deny it, best example is bnet 2 which still lacks so much functionality, but also in sc2 there are numerous things that the community would like to see changed, but won't happen... they just seem to deny there is an issue... i agree on your part about the units tho, it's balanced they are hated cause they are quite effective... still it's nowhere near perfect so there's lots of room for improvement...
There are improvements to battle.net which need to be made which I have been assured are being made (but obviously progressing at a "blizzard soon" pace). But so far as the actual game is concerned (which is the part DB has been most involved with afiak) I have no major gripes. I don't think anyones said its perfect though, and bnet2 is going to be the platform for every blizzard game in the foreseeable future so one can only hope that it gets better with time.
On June 12 2011 19:51 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2011 19:42 Ezekyle wrote:On June 12 2011 19:41 Kreb wrote:
Threads like these make me so sad. Why must there always be a bunch of vocal people claiming the people behind THE VERY GAME THAT IS THE REASON YOU ARE HERE is stupid/incompetent/dont know what they're doing. If that was the case, you wouldnt be here. Starcraft would only be another random shit game which gets released and then forgotten a few months later. And we're also talking about the company which made the warcraft, diablo and WoW series.
How can you even live with yourself trying to make them out as incompetent? Im honestly baffled those thoughts can go through peoples minds. And whats up with trying to put all the blame on one person? Holy crap do you have any idea whatsoever about how Blizzard work? And do you think this one guy is in charge of everything and make stupid calls and then an army of blind followers carry out those stupid calls and implement them in the game? Seriously, what world are you living in? And on top of it people sit back in their chair at home and claim to know better. What. Is. Worng. With. You?
And yes, constructive criticism is good. But reasoning that problems exist because the makers of the far most successful esport game and some of the most classic game titles ever are incompetent, I dont have words for it. BW was a fluke made by different people and SC2 merely copied the magical formula that made it so successful. Making a good game based off the best RTS ever made is not an impressive feat. Sources please? How do you know it was different people? How do you know their work was just about copying the magic formula of BW? Hell, what is the magic formula of BW anyway? Oh, and I very much disagree with it being unimpressive. Why dont you think more people do it then? He's correct. Most of the original design team no longer work at blizzard.
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