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Mactator
109 Posts
On June 03 2011 00:10 Eknoid4 wrote: where is all this "micro is the only way to add depth to this game" pandering coming from? Simple. Marine split, blink micro, neural parasite, dark swarm etc. are what makes the game exciting and where the experienced players show some of their skills (apart from macro, tactics, build orders etc.). a-move battles are just boring and sc2 has a too much of that. | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:44 Eknoid4 wrote: It is really sad how small your scope of the game is with regards to tactics, let alone the concept of strategy. LOL r_con clearly knows much more about this game than you do. I would play the game a bit, watch a bit, and then come back and say that micro doesn't add depth to the game. SC isn't chess. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
If you believe micro adds more depth than anything else in starcraft 2, you're an idiot, no matter what your division/rank/league is. If you believe there is 0 depth to forcefields or fungals, you're an idiot, no matter what your division/rank/league is. You can anticipate them and work around them. That means they add at least an iota of depth to the game and taking them out would lower it. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:48 Mactator wrote: Simple. Marine split, blink micro, neural parasite, dark swarm etc. are what makes the game exciting and where the experienced players show some of their skills (apart from macro, tactics, build orders etc.). a-move battles are just boring and sc2 has a too much of that. Those are what make games the most exciting for players who dont know anything about strategy and can't see the depth of the game and decision-making that happens. Nada is the perfect example of this. Not even tasteless or artosis notice the genius of a lot of his builds, and every TL Average Joe thinks they're the gods of in-depth knowledge. Watching somebody get mindfucked will always be infinitely more entertaining and skillful and fascinating than watching someone lose to marine micro. People just like marine micro because it's immediate and obvious | ||
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
On June 03 2011 01:44 Eknoid4 wrote: It is really sad how small your scope of the game is with regards to tactics, let alone the concept of strategy. Vague, needlessly inflammatory little jabs like this aren't very effective at getting a point across. What is the concept of strategy to you, and why is it inconsistent with a high level of return on micro? Can't we have both? Edit: On June 03 2011 02:09 Eknoid4 wrote: Watching somebody get mindfucked will always be infinitely more entertaining and skillful and fascinating than watching someone lose to marine micro. People just like marine micro because it's immediate and obvious Like I said, why can't we have both? And some of Brood War's biggest APM sink units were also its most strategically versatile, like the Vulture. | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:09 Rococo wrote: Vague, needlessly inflammatory little jabs like this aren't very effective at getting a point across. What is the concept of strategy to you, and why is it inconsistent with a high level of return on micro? Can't we have both? Like I said, why can't we have both? And some of Brood War's biggest APM sink units were also its most strategically versatile, like the Vulture. I never saisd we couldn't have both. Why can't you read? Why do you assume i'm being absolutist? I am saying micro isn't and shouldn't be percieved as the MOST IMPORTANT, but it is. That's all I'm saying. Read it. Five times. | ||
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thenextnight
Canada23 Posts
Forget to drop a mule? No probs! drop 2! Forget to chronoboost? Of course not! I was saving it up! Forget to inject larvae? LOLOL too bad that's 4 larvae you can't ever have back. Have fun doing this mindless repetitive task over and over all game. glhf | ||
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Eknoid4
United States902 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:18 thenextnight wrote: I think the queen needs to be looked at. Forget to drop a mule? No probs! drop 2! Forget to chronoboost? Of course not! I was saving it up! Forget to inject larvae? LOLOL too bad that's 4 larvae you can't ever have back. Have fun doing this mindless repetitive task over and over all game. glhf if it were mindless it would be easy | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
And from what i saw, zerg is evil if they attack from multiple sides, and toss needs their stuck togetherness ot be strong. And terran can attack at multiple places or fortify their postion. It sounds terrible exactly like bw xD. Though micro is a bit harder as they increased the game speed. So i don't really understand those omg we need da ball stuff. Or spells that are one sided. Not even fungal is one sided or force fields (if you think it is there is no need to explain it to you). | ||
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
Not asking for broodwar just want the best of both. | ||
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Shucks!
United States118 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9175 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:18 thenextnight wrote: I think the queen needs to be looked at. Forget to drop a mule? No probs! drop 2! Forget to chronoboost? Of course not! I was saving it up! Forget to inject larvae? LOLOL too bad that's 4 larvae you can't ever have back. Have fun doing this mindless repetitive task over and over all game. glhf A mechanic where your cc/nexus explodes when it hits full energy :D | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:36 Scarecrow wrote: A mechanic where your cc/nexus explodes when it hits full energy :D Or just make it available for feedback, pure awesomeness  But yeah when we get full on 200 energy we can't use it again so we do also lose some energy. | ||
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Shucks!
United States118 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:18 thenextnight wrote: I think the queen needs to be looked at. Forget to drop a mule? No probs! drop 2! Forget to chronoboost? Of course not! I was saving it up! Forget to inject larvae? LOLOL too bad that's 4 larvae you can't ever have back. Have fun doing this mindless repetitive task over and over all game. glhf Is this a joke? Trust me, it goes more like this. Forget to drop a mule? fuck there goes my timing push, Forget to chronoboost? lol who cares I have colossus. Forget to inject? oh look, transfuse and creep tumors. those spells are useless right? My bronze league buddy told me so. Honestly anyone who complains about larvae inject being boring or repetitive needs to sit back and realize it is easily the strongest macro mechanic in the game. | ||
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ETisME
12842 Posts
maybe corruptors as well, it is boring. Ultras' pathing must be fixed soon others, I don't really know, give some better detection units for zerg mainly. On June 03 2011 02:42 Shucks! wrote: Is this a joke? Trust me, it goes more like this. Forget to drop a mule? fuck there goes my timing push, Forget to chronoboost? lol who cares I have colossus. Forget to inject? oh look, transfuse and creep tumors. those spells are useless right? My bronze league buddy told me so. Honestly anyone who complains about larvae inject being boring or repetitive needs to sit back and realize it is easily the strongest macro mechanic in the game. Umm, about terran, unless you missed a mule in early game (which is hard to do), then sure, you deserve to miss that timing push. How would you even forget to drop the mule in that stage of the game? Larva injection is much more than just gaining energy for other uses, each larva is your "rax/starport etc". Each missing larva is like not building from the buildings. "Oh look, I just trade army but it's ok, zerg can remass the quickest. oh shit, forgot to inject, now I can only make 18 roaches instead of 30 roaches" | ||
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absalom86
Iceland1770 Posts
On June 01 2011 02:08 Zarahtra wrote: Maybe not root, but it is certainly up there. - What 3 units in the game need to go into the redesign list? Colossus Reaper Warp prism(not sure though) - What mechanics do you find needing tweaks? or badly designed. Forcefield - Remove this ability for the love of god. I mean I get impressed with good ffs like any other guy and I'm not going the route that they are to easy to do or anything, but they are still just dull and limit the game. Obviously toss needs a huge buff to compensate. Hunter seeker missile - HSM is awesome, there's no doubt about it. They are however only awesome if they can connect, if the raven gets in range, if you can survive while getting ravens+HSM aswell as waiting for the energy. It just doesn't really work, so change it to make it usable. Strike cannon - Ugh don't know what to say, the nerf was way to big. In general though, I just find the ability rather boring, so removing it or changing it would be nice too. - What graphic/misc tweaks do you want to see? Don't know really... - What type of new units/buildings would you like to see? Zerg gets more units, such as roach to 1 supply but worse in return. Obviously larvae and stuff need looking at. With the ghost buff tank play TvP isn't explored that much, but in general TvP in BW is pretty epic, wish the same thing could be said about TvP in WoL... Have you ever seen a gateway army fight the other 2 races without any forcefields ? Try it and come back and try say that again. | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
2. macro mechanics are not balanced by the difficulty level. | ||
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DARKHYDRA
United States303 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:42 Shucks! wrote: Is this a joke? Trust me, it goes more like this. Forget to drop a mule? fuck there goes my timing push, Forget to chronoboost? lol who cares I have colossus. Forget to inject? oh look, transfuse and creep tumors. those spells are useless right? My bronze league buddy told me so. Honestly anyone who complains about larvae inject being boring or repetitive needs to sit back and realize it is easily the strongest macro mechanic in the game. Conclussion, everyone is biased lol | ||
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goiflin
Canada1218 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:15 Eknoid4 wrote: I never saisd we couldn't have both. Why can't you read? Why do you assume i'm being absolutist? I am saying micro isn't and shouldn't be percieved as the MOST IMPORTANT, but it is. That's all I'm saying. Read it. Five times. We already have the strategically versatile game. Thats why more micromanageable units are, and should be, percieved as the most important aspect to add at this point. | ||
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
On June 03 2011 02:15 Eknoid4 wrote: I never saisd we couldn't have both. Why can't you read? Why do you assume i'm being absolutist? I am saying micro isn't and shouldn't be percieved as the MOST IMPORTANT, but it is. That's all I'm saying. Read it. Five times. You double posted for some reason and I skipped over this: I never said micro doesn't add depth to the game. If that's what you're arguing against, you're wrong. This entire thread sounds like it was made because of an idra podcast or something. If you believe micro adds more depth than anything else in starcraft 2, you're an idiot, no matter what your division/rank/league is. If you believe there is 0 depth to forcefields or fungals, you're an idiot, no matter what your division/rank/league is. You can anticipate them and work around them. That means they add at least an iota of depth to the game and taking them out would lower it. Anyway, your point is completely banal and unnecessary. Micro is getting a lot of focus in this thread because it's one area that people feel SC2 is lacking, that's all. I haven't seen anyone suggest that it should be more important than strategy, just that it should be more important than it is. As for fungal and forcefield, this thread is about things that should be redesigned or removed and replaced. Taking forcefield out and replacing it with a better designed ability would not necessarily lower the depth of the game, no. | ||
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