EPT
Blizzard Interviews Day[9] - Page 9
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Smeik
Germany32 Posts
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iPBioOrMech
Turkey297 Posts
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Opera
France469 Posts
I'm a Zerg player and still this might be one of my favorites games ever ! Go Day9 ! | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On May 07 2011 06:09 Ballistixz wrote: day 9s inexperience in SC2 really showed during that state of the game debate he had with idra about balance. idra was 100% correct on all points he made. day 9 was right on some points to, but his inexperience just showed drastically. he barely had anything to say most of the time. You guys are taking a conversation with no replays and hence no context and trying to extrapolate all sorts of personal judgments about both Idra and Day9. Scouting is game specific. I don't even play at a high level, and I can tell you that nobody scouts exactly the same way in each match up, regardless of what they see initially. The only way for us to really evaluate their claims is if Idra presented a replay in which he found scouting literally impossible, and then they analyzed it together. Anything other than that is just speculation based on our biases. I'm more inclined to buy Day9 over Idra because I have a lot of respect for Day9's skill as a player and analyst. Idra kind of makes it his thing to complain about balance, seemingly no matter what, so I have to take that with a grain of salt. | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
On May 08 2011 02:55 Vul wrote: You guys are taking a conversation with no replays and hence no context and trying to extrapolate all sorts of personal judgments about both Idra and Day9. Scouting is game specific. I don't even play at a high level, and I can tell you that nobody scouts exactly the same way in each match up, regardless of what they see initially. The only way for us to really evaluate their claims is if Idra presented a replay in which he found scouting literally impossible, and then they analyzed it together. Anything other than that is just speculation based on our biases. I'm more inclined to buy Day9 over Idra because I have a lot of respect for Day9's skill as a player and analyst. Idra kind of makes it his thing to complain about balance, seemingly no matter what, so I have to take that with a grain of salt. You have more respect for DAy9s skill as a player and analyst than idra's skill? oO. Also, you cant judge idra on his balance complaints. Literally every high level zerg here and in korea has been bitching about Zerg imbalance, idra just tends to be the most vocal about it. Also in Beta he said that Zerg lategame was too strong vs Protoss, Zerg was a little favored vs Terran, and 1 suplpy roaches were too strong, even though he played zerg. Your opinion seems really prejudiced | ||
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On May 08 2011 02:55 Vul wrote: You guys are taking a conversation with no replays and hence no context and trying to extrapolate all sorts of personal judgments about both Idra and Day9. Scouting is game specific. I don't even play at a high level, and I can tell you that nobody scouts exactly the same way in each match up, regardless of what they see initially. The only way for us to really evaluate their claims is if Idra presented a replay in which he found scouting literally impossible, and then they analyzed it together. Anything other than that is just speculation based on our biases. I'm more inclined to buy Day9 over Idra because I have a lot of respect for Day9's skill as a player and analyst. Idra kind of makes it his thing to complain about balance, seemingly no matter what, so I have to take that with a grain of salt. what? you dont need replays for that. day 9 has been and always will be a in depth and deep person, so the way he learns things is by deep analysis. its just the way he is. but the fact of the matter is you DO NOT have to go that deep. going into the scouting example again lets look at other races. a toss can just walk a probe in a zergs base and scout everything he is doing. a scv can walk into a zergs base and scout everything he is doing. now a zerg drone? try walking a drone into a terrans base. if it cant magically walk thru walls then a drone will never just up and walk into a terrans base. same for toss. they can just wall and a drone will never get inside there base. now lets go further into the game. terran gets scan. he can scout ur entire base with the click of a fucking button. zerg has to move a insanely slow unit that costs SUPPLY into the terrans base. 3 marines will be able to snipe it off before it gets to see anything majorly important. and guess what? u loose some supply in the proccess. for a overlord to be effective it needs speed upgrade which costs minerals AND gas. or u would have to morph it into a overseer which requires lair, then u have to morph it after lair is done which costs 100 minerals and 100 gas. now lets look at tosses scouting. they got observers. a very good scouting unit that is also cloaked. zergs scouting abilities is not nearly as good as the other 2 races. also how are u able to buy more into day 9s based on his skill when idras skill is billions of times better then day 9s? that makes no sense. to say idra doesnt know as much as day 9 is also stupid. the guy plays every single day for hours a day, he knows the game like the back of his hand. he isnt less knowledgeable then day 9 is. no one is denying that idra is pretty much a whiner and a zerg tear shedder, but the guy has reasons and good points to make with it. he isnt some random smoe that cries imbalanced for no reason and no evidence to back it up. | ||
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Vul
United States685 Posts
On the other hand, Idra is kind of like the boy who cried wolf. Ever meet someone that throws temper tantrums or cries way too often? At first, you take it seriously. But if that's just what they do, it no longer has the effect on you that it used to. That's just naturally the way it goes, if you make complaining about balance a part of your image as a player, then people aren't going to take it that seriously. It's just Idra being Idra. It's not a comment on whether he's right or wrong, he might be right. But my original point is that I think if we're seriously going to look for solutions, you've got to have replays to look at. Again, it shouldn't be that hard to say here's a game that I really couldn't scout at all. What could I have done? Edit: And by the way, I think Incontrol really nailed this when he asked Idra which race was underpowered in BW. | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
And by the way, I think Incontrol really nailed this when he asked Idra which race was underpowered in BW. this. IdrA's history of balance whining, even in the most balanced RTS ever designed, speaks for itself | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
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KDot2
United States1213 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On May 08 2011 04:07 awesomoecalypse wrote: Day9 isn't biased towards any one race. That alone makes his opinions more valuable than IdrA's, who has a massive conflict of interest. NO Zerg pro can be trusted when it comes to their opinions of race balance as it relates to Zerg, for the same reason we ignore MVP when he complains that Terran is UP. I wish people would stop bringing this up. MVP's comment was specifically about maps. Now that the maps are larger terrans are having more trouble than before. Obviously. | ||
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loveeholicce
Korea (South)785 Posts
On May 08 2011 04:07 awesomoecalypse wrote: Day9 isn't biased towards any one race. That alone makes his opinions more valuable than IdrA's, who has a massive conflict of interest. NO Zerg pro can be trusted when it comes to their opinions of race balance as it relates to Zerg, for the same reason we ignore MVP when he complains that Terran is UP. Only difference is results back up idra way more than they do MVP. Terrans were and still are smashing tourneys. Zergs...well...not so much | ||
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ShrimpDance
392 Posts
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Shjade
United States13 Posts
On May 07 2011 07:25 mikyaJ wrote: in the beginning Terran was definitely the weakest race until BoxeR showed that you can be creative, and used units that were "useless", so your conclusion is just wrong. And guess what some people are saying about Zerg now? They just have to be creative -_- So you're saying you support Day9's position that the metagame simply hasn't had time to mature yet, rather than Idra's position that Zerg is simply underpowered and fundamentally broken? Good man. I knew you had it in you. Oh, about your FPS analogy, as a purely hypothetical comparison it works alright, but in practice you have it backwards: the sniper is what the newer, less skillful players use as it's easy to sit back in a safe hiding spot and shoot at people who can't defend themselves from a threat they don't even know is there; whereas the veterans more often prefer weapons that will enable them to fight effectively in a variety of circumstances and at differing ranges (rather than relying on a purely long/extreme range weapon). Sniping is easy. Going toe-to-toe with similarly armed combatants and beating them anyway requires some skill. ...not that an FPS analogy's accuracy is important. It just bugged me. On topic: Day[9], you're awesome. ^.^ | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + nestea shows us how its done as zerg game 5 all day every day idra would have rage quit way before then | ||
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Mellamojay
3 Posts
On May 07 2011 15:27 infinity2k9 wrote: Uhh Mellamojay, the devs don't think like this. And they do patch and change things in the short term. So what Day9 says about it is basically irrelevant. The game isn't going to be left to balance itself for better or for worse. In regards to Day[9] not wanting to talk balance, this is also false. He stated that he did not want to talk balance in an emotionally driven, short conversation. Day[9] realizes that, just like the devs, balance discussions require an immense amount of time and FACTS in order to be productive, otherwise they are just unproductive QQ. Really... your going to sit there and tell me the Dev team does not think "balance discussions require an immense amount of time and FACTS in order to be productive". You sir have no idea what you are talking about. There is a reason why when anyone complains they go back and LOOK AT THEIR DATA instead of just implementing a change... | ||
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wyspers
United States8 Posts
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simme123
Sweden810 Posts
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BlindSC2
United Kingdom435 Posts
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