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On May 05 2011 01:55 Drazzyo wrote:
this interview reminds me of when he was going buck wild in his balance/imbalance argument with idrA. my heart said day9 was right but idrA made a good point about nscouting being so difficult
Yeah but they were both right.
Idra said: everything I tried, and everything I can imagine, did (wouldn't) work.
Day9 response was basically: is everything that you can imagine really everything that exists?
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Awesome interview! Sean is such a baller.
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cool interview
i dont like that pic of day9 though lol
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On May 05 2011 01:32 AlBundy wrote:Wow thanks for the link, I love Day9. Some interesting info there: Show nested quote +There are always a bunch of replays the viewers never see that influence the discussion of the replay or content in any given daily. You'll always hear me say things like "he's heading to do X, Y, or Z, but he COULD do A or B," and that is always a consideration for any daily. The studies of the replays not shown are what gives me A and B. Show nested quote +When I sit down and start analyzing a game for a daily, I'm actually utilizing the same techniques that I use for improving my own play privately. The only difference is I'm talking while doing so. I know some people are doubting Day9's legitimacy, and not aknowledging his views about the game. That is quite deplorable imho  Even if he doesn't play in tournaments, he has a better understanding of the game than a lot of top players, thats undeniable.
I feel a lot of that "doubt" are coming from Idra fans who listen to everything he says and spouts it verbatim. He still clearly is a great analyst.
Great read.
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On May 06 2011 23:45 Ifrit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 08:43 Qzy wrote:It really shined through last sotg where IdrA slaughtered Day9 in his inexperience. Incontrol: Idra, what was the weakest race in BW? Idra: Terran Incontrol: And what race did you play in BW? Idra: Terran People wondering should let TLO and Day9 host the "Imbalanced"-Show. If you're eager to receive somewhat unbiased results in a balance-oriented discussion, random players are the most qualified to do so. But in the end, it's just the dev-team at Blizzard who's actually able to do this, because they can base their decisions on myriads of facts and decide scientifically instead of based on emotions, which is exactly what Idra did/does.
How can Idra seriously believe Terran was the weakest race? Idra confuses weakness with difficulty to play. Terran was the most demanding mechanical and strategic race in BW, but many would argue that played optimally, it was the best. So many of the best players of the game played Terran - Flash, Nada, Oov, Boxer, etc
There is no doubt in BW that Protoss was the easiest race to play and Terran was the hardest, but no one argued that P was overpowered and T underpowered. In fact, at the top levels, its often Protoss that has the weakest showings.
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Wow great interview.. And very good that Blizzard promote day9 a little, since he is one of the best and funnies sources to learn how to play the game. Without getting coached.
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I love reading the BNet comments under that interview and seeing everyone who says day9 sucks just get absolutely murdered.
I <3 Day[9]!!
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On May 06 2011 23:52 eiger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 23:38 loveeholicce wrote:On May 05 2011 01:32 AlBundy wrote:Wow thanks for the link, I love Day9. Some interesting info there: There are always a bunch of replays the viewers never see that influence the discussion of the replay or content in any given daily. You'll always hear me say things like "he's heading to do X, Y, or Z, but he COULD do A or B," and that is always a consideration for any daily. The studies of the replays not shown are what gives me A and B. When I sit down and start analyzing a game for a daily, I'm actually utilizing the same techniques that I use for improving my own play privately. The only difference is I'm talking while doing so. I know some people are doubting Day9's legitimacy, and not aknowledging his views about the game. That is quite deplorable imho Even if he doesn't play in tournaments, he has a better understanding of the game than a lot of top players, thats undeniable. How is it undeniable? He doesn't play anymore, I dont see how you could think he knows the game better than pro players who make a living from the game. Day9 is awesome but some people get carried away Your game knowledge is not measured by your competition results.
If it was, then the game knowledge of Roger Federer's coach would be zero.Stop making this fundamental mistake. Sorry for bolding out, but the point needs to be hammered home with some people.
Yes it does, and this is nothing like Tennis, although Roger Federers coach was probably a tennis player, whether amateur or professional, so he does know about Tennis.
Sorry, but game knowledge IS based on how much you play. It's not based on results directly, but results themselves are based on how good you are and how much you play. Correlation / causation kind of thing. Thing with starcraft is it can be deceptively simple. You can look at all the pro games you want but unless you're actually actively playing the game you won't have the same extent of understanding, not even close. Day9 is a good player, way better than the average person but to think his knowledge is better than a pro players knowledge is absolutely ridiculous. You need to play the game at a high level to understand it at that level. The overarching RTS concepts that day9 brings are excellent, and it makes sense because he was once himself a amateur / pro player, but about starcraft 2 specifically he doesnt have the knowledge the professionals have because he doesn't play it as much as they do, which leads to him saying things that are often wrong like telling Idra to get 20 infestors in a lategame ZvP while every other state of the game pro agreed they should be supplement units used in small numbers
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On May 07 2011 00:48 ati wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 01:55 Drazzyo wrote:
this interview reminds me of when he was going buck wild in his balance/imbalance argument with idrA. my heart said day9 was right but idrA made a good point about nscouting being so difficult Yeah but they were both right. Idra said: everything I tried, and everything I can imagine, did (wouldn't) work. Day9 response was basically: is everything that you can imagine really everything that exists?
No IdrA was right. Day9 might also be right.
On May 07 2011 01:32 War Horse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2011 23:45 Ifrit wrote:On May 05 2011 08:43 Qzy wrote:It really shined through last sotg where IdrA slaughtered Day9 in his inexperience. Incontrol: Idra, what was the weakest race in BW? Idra: Terran Incontrol: And what race did you play in BW? Idra: Terran People wondering should let TLO and Day9 host the "Imbalanced"-Show. If you're eager to receive somewhat unbiased results in a balance-oriented discussion, random players are the most qualified to do so. But in the end, it's just the dev-team at Blizzard who's actually able to do this, because they can base their decisions on myriads of facts and decide scientifically instead of based on emotions, which is exactly what Idra did/does. How can Idra seriously believe Terran was the weakest race? Idra confuses weakness with difficulty to play. Terran was the most demanding mechanical and strategic race in BW, but many would argue that played optimally, it was the best. So many of the best players of the game played Terran - Flash, Nada, Oov, Boxer, etc There is no doubt in BW that Protoss was the easiest race to play and Terran was the hardest, but no one argued that P was overpowered and T underpowered. In fact, at the top levels, its often Protoss that has the weakest showings.
At the peak of competition, Terran essentially had the highest skill ceiling, and therefore the absolute best players in the worlds were Terrans a lot of the time, because the players were rewarded the most for playing the best i.e. most of the time, the best Terran player was better than the best Zerg player was better than the best Protoss player. However the foreign scene that IdrA was home to was no where near this level of play, and therefore, Protoss, considered the easiest race, did very well. If you're not at the peak level of play, he believed (and there was merit to this) that if there were equally skilled Protoss, Terran, and Zerg players, the Terran would lose out of all of them.
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Was anyone else annoyed when they kept calling his dailies 'Shoutcasts' until about halfway through?
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On May 07 2011 02:02 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 00:48 ati wrote:On May 05 2011 01:55 Drazzyo wrote:
this interview reminds me of when he was going buck wild in his balance/imbalance argument with idrA. my heart said day9 was right but idrA made a good point about nscouting being so difficult Yeah but they were both right. Idra said: everything I tried, and everything I can imagine, did (wouldn't) work. Day9 response was basically: is everything that you can imagine really everything that exists? No IdrA was right. Day9 might also be right. Show nested quote +On May 07 2011 01:32 War Horse wrote:On May 06 2011 23:45 Ifrit wrote:On May 05 2011 08:43 Qzy wrote:It really shined through last sotg where IdrA slaughtered Day9 in his inexperience. Incontrol: Idra, what was the weakest race in BW? Idra: Terran Incontrol: And what race did you play in BW? Idra: Terran People wondering should let TLO and Day9 host the "Imbalanced"-Show. If you're eager to receive somewhat unbiased results in a balance-oriented discussion, random players are the most qualified to do so. But in the end, it's just the dev-team at Blizzard who's actually able to do this, because they can base their decisions on myriads of facts and decide scientifically instead of based on emotions, which is exactly what Idra did/does. How can Idra seriously believe Terran was the weakest race? Idra confuses weakness with difficulty to play. Terran was the most demanding mechanical and strategic race in BW, but many would argue that played optimally, it was the best. So many of the best players of the game played Terran - Flash, Nada, Oov, Boxer, etc There is no doubt in BW that Protoss was the easiest race to play and Terran was the hardest, but no one argued that P was overpowered and T underpowered. In fact, at the top levels, its often Protoss that has the weakest showings. At the peak of competition, Terran essentially had the highest skill ceiling, and therefore the absolute best players in the worlds were Terrans a lot of the time, because the players were rewarded the most for playing the best i.e. most of the time, the best Terran player was better than the best Zerg player was better than the best Protoss player. However the foreign scene that IdrA was home to was no where near this level of play, and therefore, Protoss, considered the easiest race, did very well. If you're not at the peak level of play, he believed (and there was merit to this) that if there were equally skilled Protoss, Terran, and Zerg players, the Terran would lose out of all of them.
But balance should be based on the highest level of play. So if the best player in the world wants to switch to Protoss, it's a handicap for him because the lower skill ceiling will cap how much he can do.
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Great interview, please stop derailing the thread balance complainers. Day9 is awesome, super glad blizz interviewed him, hopes it gets him more viewership.
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Ohmygosh. I totally agree with him that Mana vs. Naama g3 at Dreamhack was one of the coolest games EVER. Watch the whole series and you may even cry after game 3.
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Grats to Sean! None other more deserving to flagship E-Sports forward!
I wish a mod would regulate this thread to keep it strictly on the topic as people from the SotG/Idra Fanclub threads that keep crying about balance are spilling into this thread like parasites.
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On May 05 2011 23:44 eviltomahawk wrote:
However, I suspect that he has taken quite a few higher-level math courses at USC.
I'd be surprised if that were the case. You don't get an MFA while putting the time into the SC2 community that he has by taking classes that have nothing to do with your program of graduate study.
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On May 06 2011 10:43 Zeke50100 wrote:Day[9] disagreeing that Zerg cannot scout is indicative of his lack of top-level knowledge? What? The argument on SOTG wasn't rocket science; it involved incredibly basic knowledge that any person with any amount of logic could come up with arguments for. What's even more hilarious is that tons of non-top level Zergs flock to go against him just because IdrA said it, when they hardly hold any of the "credibility" they hold so dear in the first place. Playing at a top level is not synonymous with understanding the game, nor are they dependent on each other. Why bring it up in a topic purely dedicated to an interview of him? I really love how Blizzard has been appreciating pretty much everybody who works for SC2. It shows that they aren't completely heartless jerks, even if the end goal of the corporation is money 
I know right? Have you seen sheth's approach to early ZVP scouting at times when he can't figure out what's going on? He'll be like I WILL KILL THIS ZEALOT IN YOUR CHOKE EVEN IF IT TAKES ME 12 LINGS. while sending his ol in the back side, since the stalker/sentry is busy holding off the lings at the front. Cannot scout my ass, i do this a fair bit now.
IdrA writes it off as "oh it sets you behind to do that." Sure, it might. But catching the protoss's pants down when he's planning some sneaky all-in is totally worth it.
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On May 06 2011 06:44 Shiladie wrote:
since that argument I've lost some faith in day9, he failed to bring up any valid argument points, or lacking being able to do so admit to current observations.
I enjoy him as a caster and as an entertainer, but from this and other recent observations, I'm beginning to see what other pros have said about him having lost his edge in top end game analysis.
My feeling about that discussion was that he was trying to make a distinction between imbalance and other types of design issues that was so subtle that everyone, including IdrA, missed it. His argument was: having to make a coin-flip decision at the start of the game doesn't mean playing Zerg puts you at a long-term disadvantage in terms of likelihood of winning, it just takes the control out of your hands to some extent for any given game. IdrA hates this because he wants to be in control of the game from start to end. Day9's view is "What you want is not the game they designed, and you might be able to find a way around it given enough time and creativity, so what's the problem?"
It's the same kind of thing as his "no such thing as a counter" argument, which everyone misinterprets -- his point is simply that you can win the game with a suboptimal unit composition, not that there isn't an optimal composition available.
In each case, Day9's position is that it's useful to think of the game his way because it leaves you more free to explore possibilities that you might have ruled out prematurely, and I think that's at the core of how he analyzes the game.
It's not a fault of his beyond that he doesn't play at the pro level anymore, if he were to get back into playing, I think he'd be able to bring more to the table in relation to this.
He tweeted yesterday that he'll be free to play a LOT more starting June 1, and it will be interesting to see whether and how this affects his view of the game.
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Yeah the shoutcasts should be called dailies, great read though anyway, hopefully Blizzard interview some more people from the community sometime
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On May 07 2011 00:48 ati wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2011 01:55 Drazzyo wrote:
this interview reminds me of when he was going buck wild in his balance/imbalance argument with idrA. my heart said day9 was right but idrA made a good point about nscouting being so difficult Yeah but they were both right. Idra said: everything I tried, and everything I can imagine, did (wouldn't) work. Day9 response was basically: is everything that you can imagine really everything that exists?
Very well said, Day9's more theoretical approach wasn't in line with IdrA's more practical approach. So they were arguing on two whole different levels.
On the interview, Day9 really deserves this exposure by blizzard. Can't wait till he finishes school so he can dedicate his full time to SC2, can't get enough of Day9.
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EPT
