On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
On January 23 2013 01:57 Reedjr wrote: Journalism is journalism is journalism. The rules don't vary by industry. Esports existed before SC II and even BW, and it will continue to exist if and when SC II goes the way of the dodo, and journalists will document the entire arc. The point is that if the business model for one team is reliant upon information that is "impossible" to protect, that team needs to get a different model, not expect the rest of the world to conform to it.
Journalists make this argument all the time, and it's bunk. The same arguments apply to murder-for-hire, or telemarketing, or any other industry, right, wrong, evil, or good. Just because it's what journalists DO, or that it's within the rules they've set for themselves, does not mean that it is good or right, or that we can't call them out on doing harm. If that's the way the industry is - then do it differently or get out.
Did you seriously just compare journalists to assassins? Journalists have a responsibility to the public to report information they uncover on the record in a timely fashion. That's it. How is that a nuisance to you? What's "bunk" about it? Woodward and Bernstein caused Nixon harm when they uncovered Watergate... Would you rather that have all been swept under the rug?
Are you seriously comparing Slasher reporting about a player transfer to Watergate? Wow. Just wow.
Journalistic integrity is only applicable when it is warranted, this news has about the importance of a tabloid article, especially if done in such an unproffesional way, or to paraphrase TotalBiscuit, worse then what retarded kittens could produce.
There is nothing "unprofessional" about what Slasher does. That's you using a buzzword to augment a weak argument.
Actually, the leaks Slasher releases are highly unproffesional and lazily written, hell I could do a better job, this isn't a buzzword go read them, they're literally 3 line trash.
Also, please don't talk about weak arguments when your post can hardly be called an argument at all.
On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
On January 23 2013 01:57 Reedjr wrote: Journalism is journalism is journalism. The rules don't vary by industry. Esports existed before SC II and even BW, and it will continue to exist if and when SC II goes the way of the dodo, and journalists will document the entire arc. The point is that if the business model for one team is reliant upon information that is "impossible" to protect, that team needs to get a different model, not expect the rest of the world to conform to it.
Journalists make this argument all the time, and it's bunk. The same arguments apply to murder-for-hire, or telemarketing, or any other industry, right, wrong, evil, or good. Just because it's what journalists DO, or that it's within the rules they've set for themselves, does not mean that it is good or right, or that we can't call them out on doing harm. If that's the way the industry is - then do it differently or get out.
Did you seriously just compare journalists to assassins? Journalists have a responsibility to the public to report information they uncover on the record in a timely fashion. That's it. How is that a nuisance to you? What's "bunk" about it? Woodward and Bernstein caused Nixon harm when they uncovered Watergate... Would you rather that have all been swept under the rug?
Are you seriously comparing Slasher reporting about a player transfer to Watergate? Wow. Just wow.
Journalistic integrity is only applicable when it is warranted, this news has about the importance of a tabloid article, especially if done in such an unproffesional way, or to paraphrase TotalBiscuit, worse then what retarded kittens could produce.
There is nothing "unprofessional" about what Slasher does. That's you using a buzzword to augment a weak argument.
Actually, the leaks Slasher releases are highly unproffesional and lazily written, hell I could do a better job, this isn't a buzzword go read them, they're literally 3 line trash.
Also, please don't talk about weak arguments when your post can hardly be called an argument at all.
The leaks are not unprofessional. Its breaking news on an online website. If you ever frequent the New York Times website, they will have a short paragraph or two on breaking news, then elaborate on it in the coming days with longer articles possibly written by different people.
On January 23 2013 01:57 Reedjr wrote: Journalism is journalism is journalism. The rules don't vary by industry. Esports existed before SC II and even BW, and it will continue to exist if and when SC II goes the way of the dodo, and journalists will document the entire arc. The point is that if the business model for one team is reliant upon information that is "impossible" to protect, that team needs to get a different model, not expect the rest of the world to conform to it.
Journalists make this argument all the time, and it's bunk. The same arguments apply to murder-for-hire, or telemarketing, or any other industry, right, wrong, evil, or good. Just because it's what journalists DO, or that it's within the rules they've set for themselves, does not mean that it is good or right, or that we can't call them out on doing harm. If that's the way the industry is - then do it differently or get out.
Did you seriously just compare journalists to assassins? Journalists have a responsibility to the public to report information they uncover on the record in a timely fashion. That's it. How is that a nuisance to you? What's "bunk" about it? Woodward and Bernstein caused Nixon harm when they uncovered Watergate... Would you rather that have all been swept under the rug?
Are you seriously comparing Slasher reporting about a player transfer to Watergate? Wow. Just wow.
Journalistic integrity is only applicable when it is warranted, this news has about the importance of a tabloid article, especially if done in such an unproffesional way, or to paraphrase TotalBiscuit, worse then what retarded kittens could produce.
There is nothing "unprofessional" about what Slasher does. That's you using a buzzword to augment a weak argument.
Actually, the leaks Slasher releases are highly unproffesional and lazily written, hell I could do a better job, this isn't a buzzword go read them, they're literally 3 line trash.
Also, please don't talk about weak arguments when your post can hardly be called an argument at all.
Well the articles are longer than 3 lines, but all of the information can be obtained by looking at Liquipedia. It is really hard to paraphrase information that has already been collected by other people for free. I mean, you have to use different words and stuff.
The report on Snute is pretty good, released two days before it was confirmed. Every single fact in the report can be found by skimming Liquipedia. At least he didn't use the photo as well. Or link to Teamliquid.net, because, you know, that would be helpful in some way and provide their readers with more information.
On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
Your basic premise seems to be:
a) Learn to read.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
I don't think you understand. We all understand that it hurts EG's business model if slasher leaks this stuff. But there are many teams that don't follow EG's business model. EG potentially falling down will just make room for newer and savvier teams to pop up in the scene. If EG can't prevent these leaks (and I don't think they can), they need to find a different business model to work with.
On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
Your basic premise seems to be:
a) Learn to read.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
I don't think you understand. We all understand that it hurts EG's business model if slasher leaks this stuff. But there are many teams that don't follow EG's business model. EG potentially falling down will just make room for newer and savvier teams to pop up in the scene. If EG can't prevent these leaks (and I don't think they can), they need to find a different business model to work with.
Pray tell, what revolutionary E-sports team does not rely on sponsors and advertising for their revenue? I don't think I've heard of them.
Relying on sponsors and advertising is a simple fact of E-sports right now, and until it grows much further it will remain so.
and anyone talking about the quality of the journalism I would recommend watching Climbing the ladder, and listen to SLasher there.
And seriously... how did this eaven become a discussion about the quality of reporting, like that is the reason for flaming. Man there are so many pepole that have a passion for journalism, yet wanting them not to report. And if u seek real journalism I might suggest not reading articles/news that u feel have a lack of quality.
Edit: In the article Garfield is even saying that "leaking annoucements" does not make or break a team. There.
On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
Your basic premise seems to be:
a) Learn to read.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
I don't think you understand. We all understand that it hurts EG's business model if slasher leaks this stuff. But there are many teams that don't follow EG's business model. EG potentially falling down will just make room for newer and savvier teams to pop up in the scene. If EG can't prevent these leaks (and I don't think they can), they need to find a different business model to work with.
Pray tell, what revolutionary E-sports team does not rely on sponsors and advertising for their revenue? I don't think I've heard of them.
Relying on sponsors and advertising is a simple fact of E-sports right now, and until it grows much further it will remain so.
All teams rely on sponsors and advertising. Its just that EG's business model, (making content based on announcements or hype) is not sustainable.
and anyone talking about the quality of the journalism I would recommend watching Climbing the ladder, and listen to SLasher there.
And seriously... how did this eaven become a discussion about the quality of reporting, like that is the reason for flaming. Man there are so many pepole that have a passion for journalism, yet wanting them not to report. And if u seek real journalism I might suggest not reading articles/news that u feel have a lack of quality.
Edit: In the article Garfield is even saying that "leaking annoucements" does not make or break a team. There.
I like the the insight at the end:
"The friction comes when writers break stories that can hurt Garfield’s ability to run his team, and that same writer later asks for access to players for stories. Garfield is interested in finding a middle ground, where he can keep big news about players under wraps until an official announcement, while also helping in the creation of larger, more in-depth stories about his team and the world of eSports.
Breslau is interested in the same thing, but he also seems unwilling to give up the thrill of uncovering, and publishing, exclusive information about players. There is a middle ground here, and both men are working towards finding it, while looking out for their own best interests.
This isn’t a case of eSports not understanding journalism, this is a case of eSports dealing with the pros and cons of being covered like a real sport. Congratulations, both sides have grown up. "
Esports needs to grow up and stop crying over being so reliant on sponsorship dollars to survive. Well boofreaking who. That's your problem and you need to come up with a better business plan. If esports dies because they can never figure out a better business plan than that, then they deserve it.
Slasher does great work and is the best reporter in the scene. Nothing what he does can be categorized as tmz/tabloid style reporting because last time I checked, reporting player signings is just reporting the facts and there's nothing tabloid about that.
and anyone talking about the quality of the journalism I would recommend watching Climbing the ladder, and listen to SLasher there.
And seriously... how did this eaven become a discussion about the quality of reporting, like that is the reason for flaming. Man there are so many pepole that have a passion for journalism, yet wanting them not to report. And if u seek real journalism I might suggest not reading articles/news that u feel have a lack of quality.
Edit: In the article Garfield is even saying that "leaking annoucements" does not make or break a team. There.
I like the the insight at the end:
"The friction comes when writers break stories that can hurt Garfield’s ability to run his team, and that same writer later asks for access to players for stories. Garfield is interested in finding a middle ground, where he can keep big news about players under wraps until an official announcement, while also helping in the creation of larger, more in-depth stories about his team and the world of eSports.
Breslau is interested in the same thing, but he also seems unwilling to give up the thrill of uncovering, and publishing, exclusive information about players. There is a middle ground here, and both men are working towards finding it, while looking out for their own best interests.
This isn’t a case of eSports not understanding journalism, this is a case of eSports dealing with the pros and cons of being covered like a real sport. Congratulations, both sides have grown up. "
Yeah that kind of sums it up. Esport growing up. Cool.
and anyone talking about the quality of the journalism I would recommend watching Climbing the ladder, and listen to SLasher there.
And seriously... how did this eaven become a discussion about the quality of reporting, like that is the reason for flaming. Man there are so many pepole that have a passion for journalism, yet wanting them not to report. And if u seek real journalism I might suggest not reading articles/news that u feel have a lack of quality.
Edit: In the article Garfield is even saying that "leaking annoucements" does not make or break a team. There.
I like the the insight at the end:
"The friction comes when writers break stories that can hurt Garfield’s ability to run his team, and that same writer later asks for access to players for stories. Garfield is interested in finding a middle ground, where he can keep big news about players under wraps until an official announcement, while also helping in the creation of larger, more in-depth stories about his team and the world of eSports.
Breslau is interested in the same thing, but he also seems unwilling to give up the thrill of uncovering, and publishing, exclusive information about players. There is a middle ground here, and both men are working towards finding it, while looking out for their own best interests.
This isn’t a case of eSports not understanding journalism, this is a case of eSports dealing with the pros and cons of being covered like a real sport. Congratulations, both sides have grown up. "
Yeah that kind of sums it up. Esport growing up. Cool.
:D
Maybe we fans could as well, but lets not set our hopes to high ;-P
On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
Your basic premise seems to be:
a) Learn to read.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
I don't think you understand. We all understand that it hurts EG's business model if slasher leaks this stuff. But there are many teams that don't follow EG's business model. EG potentially falling down will just make room for newer and savvier teams to pop up in the scene. If EG can't prevent these leaks (and I don't think they can), they need to find a different business model to work with.
Pray tell, what revolutionary E-sports team does not rely on sponsors and advertising for their revenue? I don't think I've heard of them.
Relying on sponsors and advertising is a simple fact of E-sports right now, and until it grows much further it will remain so.
All teams rely on sponsors and advertising. Its just that EG's business model, (making content based on announcements or hype) is not sustainable.
Don't regular sports make a shitton of content based on anouncements? When some new player is signed you'll probably get tons of interviews and other stories covering it, it is most definitely sustainable as long as you have sensible journalists willing to work with the teams, i.e. not Slasher.
and anyone talking about the quality of the journalism I would recommend watching Climbing the ladder, and listen to SLasher there.
And seriously... how did this eaven become a discussion about the quality of reporting, like that is the reason for flaming. Man there are so many pepole that have a passion for journalism, yet wanting them not to report. And if u seek real journalism I might suggest not reading articles/news that u feel have a lack of quality.
Edit: In the article Garfield is even saying that "leaking annoucements" does not make or break a team. There.
I like the the insight at the end:
"The friction comes when writers break stories that can hurt Garfield’s ability to run his team, and that same writer later asks for access to players for stories. Garfield is interested in finding a middle ground, where he can keep big news about players under wraps until an official announcement, while also helping in the creation of larger, more in-depth stories about his team and the world of eSports.
Breslau is interested in the same thing, but he also seems unwilling to give up the thrill of uncovering, and publishing, exclusive information about players. There is a middle ground here, and both men are working towards finding it, while looking out for their own best interests.
This isn’t a case of eSports not understanding journalism, this is a case of eSports dealing with the pros and cons of being covered like a real sport. Congratulations, both sides have grown up. "
Yeah that kind of sums it up. Esport growing up. Cool.
:D
Maybe we fans could as well, but lets not set our hopes to high ;-P
On January 22 2013 06:54 Acasta wrote: Releasing such news beforehand is therefore bad for the teams, the players, and ultimately for E-sports. And this is why EG and other teams are angry at Slasher: Because he only thought of himself and his profit, and not of the teams, and the "greater goal".
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote:
On January 22 2013 20:32 Scootaloo wrote: Slasher is literally taking money away from E-sports teams to give to his overlords that coudn't care less about it, if you want him to continue these 2 line bullshit articles for easy pageviews, you must fucking hate E-sports.
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
Your basic premise seems to be:
a) Learn to read.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
I don't think you understand. We all understand that it hurts EG's business model if slasher leaks this stuff. But there are many teams that don't follow EG's business model. EG potentially falling down will just make room for newer and savvier teams to pop up in the scene. If EG can't prevent these leaks (and I don't think they can), they need to find a different business model to work with.
Pray tell, what revolutionary E-sports team does not rely on sponsors and advertising for their revenue? I don't think I've heard of them.
Relying on sponsors and advertising is a simple fact of E-sports right now, and until it grows much further it will remain so.
All teams rely on sponsors and advertising. Its just that EG's business model, (making content based on announcements or hype) is not sustainable.
It isn't the content that is the issue. All teams need eyeballs to their thread/website/article/sponsors. When Slasher releases information early these teams suffer because their sponsors do not get the eyeballs needed. Slasher simply writes a one paragraph article on the subject which gets him eyeballs. The team suffers because after I know stephano is going to EG I only watched the video because I saw a separate thread about it. If there wasn't a video I would not have gone to the EG website at all. If Slasher was open to actually doing work instead of a skype call and a paragraph, this would benefit both parties. He would have time to do a youtube video of a skype call and ask the player/team/whatever real in depth questions that the core fans would want to see. Meanwhile the team itself would get page views upon releasing their typical PR and fluff article about the signing/alliance/plan. I honestly believe that Slasher just doesn't want to do actual work. It is easier to release information early than to gather information, create real solid questions, and interview whoever is involved, post that video, and coordinate with the team.
On January 23 2013 00:18 OblivionMage wrote: [quote]
but that's slasher's job. he doesn't work for EG, he doesn't get paid by EG, he gets paid by GameSpot to be a journalist. what if he didn't leak the info and someone else did (after it had obviously been leaked to some extent)? he would get nothing, gamespot would get nothing, and he wouldn't be doing his job well.
he has no obligation to EG, to the players of EG, or to 'esports' -- he only should care about his job.
On January 23 2013 00:28 Avean wrote: [quote]
It doesnt matter if Slasher is taking money from E-sports teams. EG is loosing money on a leaked news article, thats EG's problem and certainly not Slashers! How difficult is it to understand? Slasher wins viewers by releasing the news first, EG wins marketing value by releasing it first.
Im really shocked to see people who normally are very smart in discussions like incontrol not seeing this. And Alex Garfield attacking Slasher personally was also really uncalled for.
So your point is basically that him being an asshole and only caring about his own profit at the expense of the E-sports scene (which he keeps telling us he loves) is something we should laud and applaud? I really have no idea where your idea comes from, for most of humanity though being a self obsessed asshole is considered a bad thing and grounds for not wanting to associate with those individuals, y'know, because you tend to get fucked over.
And another point you miss is that Slasher has a very long history in game journalism which he uses and abuses to get this sort of information, other people havn't leaked stories like this, just him, in other words, either he's the only one who has access to sources like these or other journalists actually give a shit about the prosperity of this scene.
And as was posted literally a couple posts before, keeping information like this secret is almost impossible without hiring armies of lawyers and detectives, and even with that companies like Apple can't keep their shit secret.
You're saying that Slasher should fail to do his job properly to cover up the mistakes of EG, so that EG can make more money? Slasher does not work for EG. Slasher does not have some obligation to make sure EG can maximize their profit. That's not his job. EG fucked up. If this calamity was so intense it somehow cost EG their team, and they collapsed today because of these leaks, the fault would lie entirely with EG letting the info leak. If all of esports collapsed the next day because EG collapsed, the fault would still lie entirely with EG. Not with a journalist doing his job and publishing information he receives from sources.
Ok, I stated this 3 times before, and many, many people before me but I'll try one more time. Stopping a company leaking any information is impossible, Apple, who has employees specifically working for this purpose can't keep their information secret. EG can't even afford constant lawyers and investigators to stop these leaks, yet, you believe, that something that happens to every godamn company is just their fault?
Slasher is not failing his job if he get's exclusive interviews linked in the main anouncement, if he did that though he'd actually have to do work, which he doesn't do anymore because he likes "newsbreaking business".
People are not asking Slasher to stop these reports because they have any issue with meaningful journalism, would he have reported on the Own3d scandal for instance would have been fantastic, that however would have required speaking to more then just a single source and writing an article, spoiling a player transfer is not meaningful, he would have gotten exclusive interviews and would have kept his relations with team CEO's intact, which I think would be of much more value if you actually care enough to do some actual work.
I found it amusing how he admitted he didn't defend himself well on ItG and then did not say a single new thing on LO3, at this point he just comes over to me as the unstable kid that doesn't give a shit if he's spoiling it for everyone else.
Your basic premise seems to be:
1) These leaks are hurting EG and eSports significantly.
2) EG cannot stop these leaks.
Therefore, Slasher and other journalists should work for the greater good of esports by not publishing leaks without the teams consent.
That doesn't work because we don't live in magical-christmas-land where everyone works together. EG is a business. If they A) rely heavily on information not being leaked, and B) cannot stop information being leaked, they're doomed (to whatever extend these leaks hurt them, at least). They cannot rely on journalists, either anonymous or professional, working for their benefit. They cannot rely on threats and intimidation. They cannot rely on collaboration with other eSports teams to destroy a journalists career (if Alex Garfield (their CEO) saying "we (being many teams together) will no longer talk to you at all (if this means 'will deny you all access to all content')" was not a baseless threat). They have to either:
1A) Stop relying so heavily on information not being leaked.
1B) Stop the leaks.
I think 1B is the only option for them, considering their marketing-centered business plan. If it 'costs too much' to do that, then their business sucks. GG. Or they could continue with the threats that fly in the face of established journalism -- we'll see how effective that is.
Your basic premise seems to be:
a) Learn to read.
We have discussed on like the 3 last pages in detail how even big companies with entire teams dedicated to it can't stop leaks, EG can't stop all leaks, simple fact.
And as has been said countless of times before, noone but Slasher is releasing these leaks, this isn't a problem with journalists, just with Slasher and early leaks of team transfers.
The rest of what your argument is just the same bullshit "If you can't protect this info your bussiness idea is bad", even if it's true, does this mean E-sports should die and no attempt should be made to save it for the sake of journalistic integrity about a piece that does not actually matter?
Journalistic integrity for E-sports is not more important then E-sports itself.
Either way, I'm done repeating things, good luck to all of those who can't comprehend these basic realities.
I don't think you understand. We all understand that it hurts EG's business model if slasher leaks this stuff. But there are many teams that don't follow EG's business model. EG potentially falling down will just make room for newer and savvier teams to pop up in the scene. If EG can't prevent these leaks (and I don't think they can), they need to find a different business model to work with.
Pray tell, what revolutionary E-sports team does not rely on sponsors and advertising for their revenue? I don't think I've heard of them.
Relying on sponsors and advertising is a simple fact of E-sports right now, and until it grows much further it will remain so.
All teams rely on sponsors and advertising. Its just that EG's business model, (making content based on announcements or hype) is not sustainable.
Don't regular sports make a shitton of content based on anouncements? When some new player is signed you'll probably get tons of interviews and other stories covering it, it is most definitely sustainable as long as you have sensible journalists willing to work with the teams, i.e. not Slasher.
Those entities do not solely rely on views of that content. In fact in sports the signing of a player is almost irrelevant at least monetarily. Their money comes from jersey sales, seats sold, TV contracts. In esports they rely solely on views of their advertisements. When someone leaks a situation early, most people have no reason to look at the other article because there is little new information to be had.
Whether or not Slasher's brand of journalism is good or bad is irrelevant. He has an audience that wants to know what he knows. He posts information as he gets it. Maybe it's lazy, maybe not. Who cares? To quote Total Biscuit: "He's a tool." TB knows how to use this "tool" to his advantage. Team EG clearly does not.
I think EG needs to hire a better PR team. This isn't the first PR problem they've had since SC2 released. They are blaming their problems on Slasher and calling him lazy when they are too lazy to solve their own internal PR problems. If they are worried about leaking information they should start drafting non-disclosure agreements and utilizing embargoes to limit the amount of info leaked. Oh, but that would take work on their behalf. Instead they hope to bully Slasher so they don't have to do anything themselves. Who's lazy now?
On January 23 2013 08:22 YoungNV wrote: Whether or not Slasher's brand of journalism is good or bad is irrelevant. He has an audience that wants to know what he knows. He posts information as he gets it. Maybe it's lazy, maybe not. Who cares? To quote Total Biscuit: "He's a tool." TB knows how to use this "tool" to his advantage. Team EG clearly does not.
I think EG needs to hire a better PR team. This isn't the first PR problem they've had since SC2 released. They are blaming their problems on Slasher and calling him lazy when they are too lazy to solve their own internal PR problems. If they are worried about leaking information they should start drafting non-disclosure agreements and utilizing embargoes to limit the amount of info leaked. Oh, but that would take work on their behalf. Instead they hope to bully Slasher so they don't have to do anything themselves. Who's lazy now?
Just want to state that it's impossible especially since they don't know who is doing it or they would. You don't' want to fire everyone over it rofl.
This happens to big organizations there is just not much you can do about it because if you know who did it then obviously you are going to fire them, but you don't know who and will probably never know. This happens everywhere microsoft all those big companies not just small ones or anything.
On January 23 2013 08:22 YoungNV wrote: Whether or not Slasher's brand of journalism is good or bad is irrelevant. He has an audience that wants to know what he knows. He posts information as he gets it. Maybe it's lazy, maybe not. Who cares? To quote Total Biscuit: "He's a tool." TB knows how to use this "tool" to his advantage. Team EG clearly does not.
I think EG needs to hire a better PR team. This isn't the first PR problem they've had since SC2 released. They are blaming their problems on Slasher and calling him lazy when they are too lazy to solve their own internal PR problems. If they are worried about leaking information they should start drafting non-disclosure agreements and utilizing embargoes to limit the amount of info leaked. Oh, but that would take work on their behalf. Instead they hope to bully Slasher so they don't have to do anything themselves. Who's lazy now?
Just want to state that it's impossible especially since they don't know who is doing it or they would. You don't' want to fire everyone over it rofl.
This happens to big organizations there is just not much you can do about it because if you know who did it then obviously you are going to fire them, but you don't know who and will probably never know. This happens everywhere microsoft all those big companies not just small ones or anything.
Let's say Jaedong himself leaked the information about his transfer, would EG really fire him? Don't think so tbh :o
EPT
