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On January 17 2013 02:17 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:10 JackDanger wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:04 JackDanger wrote:On January 17 2013 02:03 MstrJinbo wrote:
Personal relationships are also big deal. Reporters are privy to a lot of juicy bits of information that they don't report because it would hurt their ability to work with the involved parties in the future. And journalism is worse off because of it...if you follow political coverage this is plainly obvious. I'd rather have news with no journalists than journalists with no news. I didn't know those were mutually exclusive! Well if Slashers whistleblowing(because that's what it really is) takes views and attention away from the teams who have the news, that means less money. Less money will result in the team not being able to sign players, sponsors, which means less results, less attention, and even less money. Thus, it follows that teams who lose views to Slashers whistleblowing will ultimately be hurt over time and it wiol even have some effect in teams potentially shutting down in the future.
Just to be clear of the terminology here; whistleblowing has nothing to with what Slasher is doing at all. To blow the whistle on something implies that what you are revealing are immoral actions/criminal activities which someone is actively trying to conceal.
Since signing Jaedong or playing in Proleague with Liquid is neither of those things, but in fact really awesome news for everyone, what Slasher is doing can in no way be defined as whistleblowing.
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Has Nazgul said anything about this whole thing? Would like to hear his opinion.
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On January 17 2013 02:19 L3g3nd_ wrote:
personally, i hate it when slasher ruins announcments, EG and TL and TB all do great announcments while slasher only has a poorly written article. i hope these teams stop talking to slasher i dont want my news and enterntainment ruined by a selfish journalist. im all for a slasher boycott by all the top teams
This is quite interesting.
I don't get the same thing I still get hyped and want to check out what the team has to say in their announcement.
Do you feel less hyped because of it and do you ignore the announcements from the teams if you read it somewhere else?
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On January 17 2013 02:17 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:14 NexRex wrote:On January 17 2013 02:11 Tobblish wrote:On January 17 2013 02:08 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 BlackPearl wrote:On January 17 2013 01:59 MstrJinbo wrote:All this talk about banding against Slasher to not talk to him, will do no good. If you had this "union" in place against him, he would still have been able to get this information, so not only does this make EG look very unprofessional, and unable to manage the information and players on its team, but it also accomplishes nothing. Gamespot isn't paying him to tweet rumors. If he can't get exclusive content from teams and their players it hurts his ability to report actual news. That's the whole point of teams collaborating to cut off contact with him. It's not exclusive content if its leaked. You leak something, no longer exclusive. THIS IS actual news. And the "actual news" part of your post, has nothing to do with the situation itself. Gamestop DOES pay him, that's precisely why he should do this. If people start to be like, "Oh crap, Slasher is on the cutting edge of news and has sources, and he can get all the good information noone wants to know about." Then guess what, he's going to get a ton more traffic to himself. At any point that is all irrelevant. The argument should not be "Why did Slasher do this." it should be "Why did someone in EG leak the information in the first place." Why is someone in EG responsible? There were third parties involved in the process who could easily give that info to Slasher. So you say that 3rd parties got the news just out of the thin air? Actually, wasn't it a tournament organizer that leaked news to Slasher too? yeah IPL i believe, even though EG asked IPL not to leak it, EG had to submit their team to IPL, so obviously EG.JaeDong was on that roster (as they want him in that league)
If this is the case, then EG simply needs to manage their announcements better. Submitting the roster to IPL was their announcement. If they want to generate views and clicks, then they should have made their videos and content related to the announcement in a more timely fashion. If that's not possible, then they simply lose an opportunity to seize the benefits.
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On January 17 2013 02:18 eNtitY~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:11 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:08 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:55 Kaitlin wrote:On January 17 2013 01:40 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:31 JackDanger wrote:
Frankly if esports can't withstand journalists practicing journalism then it doesn't deserve to exist.
This is clearly sour grapes over getting scooped on your own story. What exactly is the situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher while also not breaking stories when he uncovers them? And how does he even pretend to be a neutral presenter of facts in this situation? I think you may be a little lost... In the current state of eSports it's next to impossible for a team to be the only ones with knowledge of a players signing like he said, many other sources would know. To say that eSports should cease to exist because of this is idiotic at best. I don't understand how anyone in this thread can really be on Slasher's side (Aside from not completely grasping what is really being said) because everyone is on Teamliquid for eSports. In order for eSports to continue to grow the sponsors need to see some ROI, and an nouncing major changes, new pickups etc... is one of the best ways to bring people to that brand. Does anyone in here REALLY think they benefit more from knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier? Did it change your life at all? I can't comprehend this lust for what Slasher does in the community when it's clearing hurting what you're all here for. No, success as a member of the team is what brings people to the brand. If Jaedong's announcement had gone through as EG had hoped, and even surpassed expectations, then the following day, Jaedong slipped on a banana peel and had to retire, the sponsors would be greatly disappointed. If a player signs for however much money, and fails to live up to expectations, then that's what hurts teams and sponsors. Generating hype from an announcement is a fantasy unless you know you have control over everyone who knows about the information. Major sports have trade rumors all the time, which are detrimental to the teams because no player wants to be mentioned as being shopped by his team, yet you don't hear actual sports teams bitching and complaining about how they are hurt by these rumors. They just 'no comment' or deny. That is what a professional organization does in response to "secrets" where there are adversarial parties who share that information. The difference though is that those sports teams are not dependent on sponsors so what is there really to hurt other than team moral? It's much different if a player doesn't want his team to know he's being shopped around because he feels bad than EG asking Slasher to not leak something so the sponsors that put money into this scene can get some more exposure. On January 17 2013 01:49 crms wrote:On January 17 2013 01:40 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:31 JackDanger wrote:
Frankly if esports can't withstand journalists practicing journalism then it doesn't deserve to exist.
This is clearly sour grapes over getting scooped on your own story. What exactly is the situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher while also not breaking stories when he uncovers them? And how does he even pretend to be a neutral presenter of facts in this situation? I think you may be a little lost... In the current state of eSports it's next to impossible for a team to be the only ones with knowledge of a players signing like he said, many other sources would know. To say that eSports should cease to exist because of this is idiotic at best. I don't understand how anyone in this thread can really be on Slasher's side (Aside from not completely grasping what is really being said) because everyone is on Teamliquid for eSports. In order for eSports to continue to grow the sponsors need to see some ROI, and announcing major changes, new pickups etc... is one of the best ways to bring people to that brand. Does anyone in here REALLY think they benefit more from knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier? Did it change your life at all? I can't comprehend this lust for what Slasher does in the community when it's clearing hurting what you're all here for. Did knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier from a Slasher tweet, cause less people to view the big tyrant cometh hype content? Did knowing ThorzaiN -> EG weeks earlier cause less people to watch the incredible annoucement video? Unless you can show that it does, you're giving Slasher farm too much credit or coorelating 'surprise' factor with the actual nuts and bolts that matter to a company, page views, video views, exposure. TeamLiquid damages EG farm more than any tweet slasher reveals. I doubt anyone reads Slasher's tweets and stops. A ton of people will read about it on TL and stop though. To help you understand I think more people do this. Slasher tweet -> TeamLiquid -> done. (probably most people) Slasher tweet -> TeamLiquid -> EG Website -> done. Slasher tweet -> EG Website -> Team Liquid -> done. Slasher tweet- > done. (nobody) Slasher tweet -> Gamespot -> done. (almost nobody) So long as EG produces great content to follow-up their announcements it would be hard to quantify that Slasher's spoiler tweets cause any harm. But should EG be required to make hype videos and over the top announcements just to draw traffic to their brand? If so, where does that leave medium level and up 'n coming teams in eSports who cannot do much more than a simple announcement? Slasher has the right to do what ever he wants with his resources, but EG doesn't? Uhh, elaborate. Not sure I'm following you here because what I've read from your other posts I think we're on the same side.
I'm just saying that EG should be able to make those kind of videos if they have the resources to do it. Sorry of I came of differently, but yea it does look like we are on the same side.
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The only reason for EG to be able to have this stance on the matter of publishing news before they do it themselves is because of how small the scene is. What if there were 3 Slashers (lol)? If more people would publish news like player pick ups beforehand I expect EG.Alex not to have presented himself like he did. He probably would have accepted that it apparently works like that. But because of the small world that is esports and everyone knows each other personally this kind of thing is easier looked at as treacherous behavior. I guess that's why he acted (too) emotionally.
So improve on protecting your information and/ or do like TB did; Let the media do some of the work for you, use them.
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On January 17 2013 02:20 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:11 Tobblish wrote:On January 17 2013 02:08 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 BlackPearl wrote:On January 17 2013 01:59 MstrJinbo wrote:All this talk about banding against Slasher to not talk to him, will do no good. If you had this "union" in place against him, he would still have been able to get this information, so not only does this make EG look very unprofessional, and unable to manage the information and players on its team, but it also accomplishes nothing. Gamespot isn't paying him to tweet rumors. If he can't get exclusive content from teams and their players it hurts his ability to report actual news. That's the whole point of teams collaborating to cut off contact with him. It's not exclusive content if its leaked. You leak something, no longer exclusive. THIS IS actual news. And the "actual news" part of your post, has nothing to do with the situation itself. Gamestop DOES pay him, that's precisely why he should do this. If people start to be like, "Oh crap, Slasher is on the cutting edge of news and has sources, and he can get all the good information noone wants to know about." Then guess what, he's going to get a ton more traffic to himself. At any point that is all irrelevant. The argument should not be "Why did Slasher do this." it should be "Why did someone in EG leak the information in the first place." Why is someone in EG responsible? There were third parties involved in the process who could easily give that info to Slasher. So you say that 3rd parties got the news just out of the thin air? If they got it via a process it would be the first time they actually say what teams are in it, it's often kept quiet. There are third parties participating in the process itself, sponsors, law professionals are probably present working out the terms, someone with association to kespa could have said something, there are a number of sources besides just EG that could leak the info. It isn't fair to instantly put the blame on EG
Well I don't thin it is sorry.
And since I nor you are actually part of such a process I doubt we will ever know about it.
I doubt a player gets all of the teams thats interested in him in the same room or call.
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On January 17 2013 02:19 L3g3nd_ wrote:
personally, i hate it when slasher ruins announcments, EG and TL and TB all do great announcments while slasher only has a poorly written article. i hope these teams stop talking to slasher i dont want my news and enterntainment ruined by a selfish journalist. im all for a slasher boycott by all the top teams
This is missingthepoint.txt if I've ever seen it
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On January 17 2013 01:13 EG.lectR wrote:
Delusion assumes he's off the mark or uninformed. You're really, really missing the point here.
No, deluded as he has a warped sense of how real life works.
On January 17 2013 01:13 EG.lectR wrote:
Firstly, you're assuming that all information comes from one source...that when leaks happen they must be coming from the one team they're about (in this situation, that is). That just isn't true because of how e-sports [and nearly every industry which conducts any business transaction] works. For every player negotiation or team acquisition or sponsor arrangement, multiple people [and teams, in this case] are either bidding or in the conversation.
That is still not Slashers problem.
I would argue that the teams that Alex said; "hate [Slasher]", gather to discuss about keeping their shit tight, so that leaks don't happen between teams, rather than locking a guy who writes about eSports on a major gaming site out of the conversation. But that's just me.
On January 17 2013 01:13 EG.lectR wrote:
Secondly, if you feel we are "blaming Slasher for doing his job," then you're missing the point again. This conversation is about e-sports fragility and the value that we at EG have created through these "announcements." It deals with the balance between sharing information when you have it versus creating quality in having that information. And it's also about the balance of a relationship and the expectations of such.
Come on, even if you work for EG, you can't listen to Alex' initial rant about Slasher stealing (yes, stealing!) their information for his own gain without realizing that you are blaming Slasher for this. If you manage to do that, then you need to take a step back and review the whole situation.
On January 17 2013 01:13 EG.lectR wrote:
If you feel this is EG seeking Slasher as a PR extension then you're very deluded by your own oversimplification of the issue. We have proven we don't need "e-sports reporting" to make headlines or news about us (both for good and bad reasons, of course). We create that naturally and unarguably better than anyone else in e-sports. What EG is seeking is a situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher and EG to be EG.
Where have I said that I feel that EG is seeking to use Slasher as their PR extension? I'm referring to the sentence where Alex said, verbatim; "You make the team look bad because then we look like we're not able to manage our press relationships". Which it does. It might not even be EG's fault in this case, but it is certainly, without a shadow of a doubt, not Slashers fault, nor is any fallout from this either. He is doing his job, he is a journalist, that got someone to talk, and did the what he is paid to do, break a story that brings viewers to his publication. It is sad that this time it sucks for you, but that is the way it goes sometimes.
That said, if you want to punish him with locking him out, that's fine. I'm certain that not many journalists have unfettered access to teams or organizations in other sports or businesses, but to blame him for the information being posted like Alex did is silly. Especially when it is done by going after him in such a personal way. The standard that EG holds itself to should be better than that.
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Well, this all is kind of stupid. If Slasher breaks news and hurts organizations with that he has to expect that those organizations will take steps to prevent that. It's just natural.
I don't quite get all the fuss about it.
TB's said the right thing I think, if they are cooperating the right way both parties can profit.
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On January 17 2013 02:22 Tobblish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:19 L3g3nd_ wrote:
personally, i hate it when slasher ruins announcments, EG and TL and TB all do great announcments while slasher only has a poorly written article. i hope these teams stop talking to slasher i dont want my news and enterntainment ruined by a selfish journalist. im all for a slasher boycott by all the top teams This is quite interesting. I don't get the same thing I still get hyped and want to check out what the team has to say in their announcement. Do you feel less hyped because of it and do you ignore the announcements from the teams if you read it somewhere else?
It's not necessarily about those of us who are really into esports who will view all the content, but for other people not as into esports who find a short article on gamespot 2 days before the official announcement that basically says "Jaedong to EG." and go, "oh cool", and go back to browsing gamespot. Where as if he waits, posts a detailed article and maybe even links EG's announcement in his article, he gets his views, but he helps EG as well.
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On January 17 2013 02:24 Tobblish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:20 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:11 Tobblish wrote:On January 17 2013 02:08 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 BlackPearl wrote:On January 17 2013 01:59 MstrJinbo wrote:All this talk about banding against Slasher to not talk to him, will do no good. If you had this "union" in place against him, he would still have been able to get this information, so not only does this make EG look very unprofessional, and unable to manage the information and players on its team, but it also accomplishes nothing. Gamespot isn't paying him to tweet rumors. If he can't get exclusive content from teams and their players it hurts his ability to report actual news. That's the whole point of teams collaborating to cut off contact with him. It's not exclusive content if its leaked. You leak something, no longer exclusive. THIS IS actual news. And the "actual news" part of your post, has nothing to do with the situation itself. Gamestop DOES pay him, that's precisely why he should do this. If people start to be like, "Oh crap, Slasher is on the cutting edge of news and has sources, and he can get all the good information noone wants to know about." Then guess what, he's going to get a ton more traffic to himself. At any point that is all irrelevant. The argument should not be "Why did Slasher do this." it should be "Why did someone in EG leak the information in the first place." Why is someone in EG responsible? There were third parties involved in the process who could easily give that info to Slasher. So you say that 3rd parties got the news just out of the thin air? If they got it via a process it would be the first time they actually say what teams are in it, it's often kept quiet. There are third parties participating in the process itself, sponsors, law professionals are probably present working out the terms, someone with association to kespa could have said something, there are a number of sources besides just EG that could leak the info. It isn't fair to instantly put the blame on EG Well I don't thin it is sorry. And since I nor you are actually part of such a process I doubt we will ever know about it. I doubt a player gets all of the teams thats interested in him in the same room or call.
So in reality you don't actually know. Your just guessing. Which means there's no reason for you to assume someone at EG is responsible. Because you don't actually have any idea.
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On January 17 2013 02:26 Wingblade wrote:
It's not necessarily about those of us who are really into esports who will view all the content, but for other people not as into esports who find a short article on gamespot 2 days before the official announcement that basically says "Jaedong to EG." and go, "oh cool", and go back to browsing gamespot. Where as if he waits, posts a detailed article and maybe even links EG's announcement in his article, he gets his views, but he helps EG as well.
Then that falls on EG to get an agreement in place before HE FINDS OUT THROUGH OUTSIDE SOURCES. This was not a secret in any sense of the word, and it would have been idiotic and borderline unprofessional for him to not run this story.
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On January 17 2013 02:26 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:22 Tobblish wrote:On January 17 2013 02:19 L3g3nd_ wrote:
personally, i hate it when slasher ruins announcments, EG and TL and TB all do great announcments while slasher only has a poorly written article. i hope these teams stop talking to slasher i dont want my news and enterntainment ruined by a selfish journalist. im all for a slasher boycott by all the top teams This is quite interesting. I don't get the same thing I still get hyped and want to check out what the team has to say in their announcement. Do you feel less hyped because of it and do you ignore the announcements from the teams if you read it somewhere else? It's not necessarily about those of us who are really into esports who will view all the content, but for other people not as into esports who find a short article on gamespot 2 days before the official announcement that basically says "Jaedong to EG." and go, "oh cool", and go back to browsing gamespot. Where as if he waits, posts a detailed article and maybe even links EG's announcement in his article, he gets his views, but he helps EG as well.
I actually have friends thats not that into esports but still watch some especially now with KeSPA boys in the house.
They for a fact only look at reddit and follow some streamers like incontrol on twitter, if they hear a new announce like the EG one, they wouldn't even go to Gamespot or know about it but only click on the links on Reddit or twitter.
If Gamespot readers(not necessary interested in SC2) hear about it they wouldn't go to EG to hear about it.
Thats how I see it and it's reality.
On January 17 2013 02:29 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:24 Tobblish wrote:On January 17 2013 02:20 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:11 Tobblish wrote:On January 17 2013 02:08 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 BlackPearl wrote:On January 17 2013 01:59 MstrJinbo wrote:All this talk about banding against Slasher to not talk to him, will do no good. If you had this "union" in place against him, he would still have been able to get this information, so not only does this make EG look very unprofessional, and unable to manage the information and players on its team, but it also accomplishes nothing. Gamespot isn't paying him to tweet rumors. If he can't get exclusive content from teams and their players it hurts his ability to report actual news. That's the whole point of teams collaborating to cut off contact with him. It's not exclusive content if its leaked. You leak something, no longer exclusive. THIS IS actual news. And the "actual news" part of your post, has nothing to do with the situation itself. Gamestop DOES pay him, that's precisely why he should do this. If people start to be like, "Oh crap, Slasher is on the cutting edge of news and has sources, and he can get all the good information noone wants to know about." Then guess what, he's going to get a ton more traffic to himself. At any point that is all irrelevant. The argument should not be "Why did Slasher do this." it should be "Why did someone in EG leak the information in the first place." Why is someone in EG responsible? There were third parties involved in the process who could easily give that info to Slasher. So you say that 3rd parties got the news just out of the thin air? If they got it via a process it would be the first time they actually say what teams are in it, it's often kept quiet. There are third parties participating in the process itself, sponsors, law professionals are probably present working out the terms, someone with association to kespa could have said something, there are a number of sources besides just EG that could leak the info. It isn't fair to instantly put the blame on EG Well I don't thin it is sorry. And since I nor you are actually part of such a process I doubt we will ever know about it. I doubt a player gets all of the teams thats interested in him in the same room or call. So in reality you don't actually know. Your just guessing. Which means there's no reason for you to assume someone at EG is responsible. Because you don't actually have any idea.
Well thats two different things.
EG are upset on Slasher for breaking the news, news that they want to be first with.
It's still there responsibility to keep the mouths shut if they want to do this.
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On January 17 2013 02:21 ELA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:17 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:10 JackDanger wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:04 JackDanger wrote:On January 17 2013 02:03 MstrJinbo wrote:
Personal relationships are also big deal. Reporters are privy to a lot of juicy bits of information that they don't report because it would hurt their ability to work with the involved parties in the future. And journalism is worse off because of it...if you follow political coverage this is plainly obvious. I'd rather have news with no journalists than journalists with no news. I didn't know those were mutually exclusive! Well if Slashers whistleblowing(because that's what it really is) takes views and attention away from the teams who have the news, that means less money. Less money will result in the team not being able to sign players, sponsors, which means less results, less attention, and even less money. Thus, it follows that teams who lose views to Slashers whistleblowing will ultimately be hurt over time and it wiol even have some effect in teams potentially shutting down in the future. Just to be clear of the terminology here; whistleblowing has nothing to with what Slasher is doing at all. To blow the whistle on something implies that what you are revealing are immoral actions/criminal activities which someone is actively trying to conceal. Since signing Jaedong or playing in Proleague with Liquid is neither of those things, but in fact really awesome news for everyone, what Slasher is doing can in no way be defined as whistleblowing.
Whistleblowing as defined by the USA's office of special counsel includes gross mismanagement and an abuse of authority. Slasher abused his authority by damaging EG, and he mismanaged the information by writing a poor article
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On January 17 2013 02:19 crms wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:08 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:55 Kaitlin wrote:On January 17 2013 01:40 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:31 JackDanger wrote:
Frankly if esports can't withstand journalists practicing journalism then it doesn't deserve to exist.
This is clearly sour grapes over getting scooped on your own story. What exactly is the situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher while also not breaking stories when he uncovers them? And how does he even pretend to be a neutral presenter of facts in this situation? I think you may be a little lost... In the current state of eSports it's next to impossible for a team to be the only ones with knowledge of a players signing like he said, many other sources would know. To say that eSports should cease to exist because of this is idiotic at best. I don't understand how anyone in this thread can really be on Slasher's side (Aside from not completely grasping what is really being said) because everyone is on Teamliquid for eSports. In order for eSports to continue to grow the sponsors need to see some ROI, and an nouncing major changes, new pickups etc... is one of the best ways to bring people to that brand. Does anyone in here REALLY think they benefit more from knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier? Did it change your life at all? I can't comprehend this lust for what Slasher does in the community when it's clearing hurting what you're all here for. No, success as a member of the team is what brings people to the brand. If Jaedong's announcement had gone through as EG had hoped, and even surpassed expectations, then the following day, Jaedong slipped on a banana peel and had to retire, the sponsors would be greatly disappointed. If a player signs for however much money, and fails to live up to expectations, then that's what hurts teams and sponsors. Generating hype from an announcement is a fantasy unless you know you have control over everyone who knows about the information. Major sports have trade rumors all the time, which are detrimental to the teams because no player wants to be mentioned as being shopped by his team, yet you don't hear actual sports teams bitching and complaining about how they are hurt by these rumors. They just 'no comment' or deny. That is what a professional organization does in response to "secrets" where there are adversarial parties who share that information. The difference though is that those sports teams are not dependent on sponsors so what is there really to hurt other than team moral? It's much different if a player doesn't want his team to know he's being shopped around because he feels bad than EG asking Slasher to not leak something so the sponsors that put money into this scene can get some more exposure. On January 17 2013 01:49 crms wrote:On January 17 2013 01:40 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:31 JackDanger wrote:
Frankly if esports can't withstand journalists practicing journalism then it doesn't deserve to exist.
This is clearly sour grapes over getting scooped on your own story. What exactly is the situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher while also not breaking stories when he uncovers them? And how does he even pretend to be a neutral presenter of facts in this situation? I think you may be a little lost... In the current state of eSports it's next to impossible for a team to be the only ones with knowledge of a players signing like he said, many other sources would know. To say that eSports should cease to exist because of this is idiotic at best. I don't understand how anyone in this thread can really be on Slasher's side (Aside from not completely grasping what is really being said) because everyone is on Teamliquid for eSports. In order for eSports to continue to grow the sponsors need to see some ROI, and announcing major changes, new pickups etc... is one of the best ways to bring people to that brand. Does anyone in here REALLY think they benefit more from knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier? Did it change your life at all? I can't comprehend this lust for what Slasher does in the community when it's clearing hurting what you're all here for. Did knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier from a Slasher tweet, cause less people to view the big tyrant cometh hype content? Did knowing ThorzaiN -> EG weeks earlier cause less people to watch the incredible annoucement video? Unless you can show that it does, you're giving Slasher farm too much credit or coorelating 'surprise' factor with the actual nuts and bolts that matter to a company, page views, video views, exposure. TeamLiquid damages EG farm more than any tweet slasher reveals. I doubt anyone reads Slasher's tweets and stops. A ton of people will read about it on TL and stop though. To help you understand I think more people do this. Slasher tweet -> TeamLiquid -> done. (probably most people) Slasher tweet -> TeamLiquid -> EG Website -> done. Slasher tweet -> EG Website -> Team Liquid -> done. Slasher tweet- > done. (nobody) Slasher tweet -> Gamespot -> done. (almost nobody) So long as EG produces great content to follow-up their announcements it would be hard to quantify that Slasher's spoiler tweets cause any harm. But should EG be required to make hype videos and over the top announcements just to draw traffic to their brand? If so, where does that leave medium level and up 'n coming teams in eSports who cannot do much more than a simple announcement? Absolutely they should be required to produce this content. Esports teams are nothing more than marketing agencies. If the team can't create something more exciting (doesn't have to be an EG quality video) than a tweet or a gamespot article. They aren't going to survive OR are so small that if Slasher actually tweeted about them, it would only increase their exposure and reach.
Okay, while I agree that they are marketing agencies it's definitely not all they are. If every team is REQUIRED to go way over the top every single time in order to generate traffic for their announcements it's going to get old very fast. EG's video's are awesome because they are the only one's who really do that. Aside from some Axiom hype what other team in the 3 years it's been have you seen do that? Enlighten me. Even corporate KeSPA teams don't do this. How did SKT announce PartinG? A press conference and an interview with involved parties which is more than fine.
On January 17 2013 02:18 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:08 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:55 Kaitlin wrote:On January 17 2013 01:40 eNtitY~ wrote:On January 17 2013 01:31 JackDanger wrote:
Frankly if esports can't withstand journalists practicing journalism then it doesn't deserve to exist.
This is clearly sour grapes over getting scooped on your own story. What exactly is the situation that allows Slasher to be Slasher while also not breaking stories when he uncovers them? And how does he even pretend to be a neutral presenter of facts in this situation? I think you may be a little lost... In the current state of eSports it's next to impossible for a team to be the only ones with knowledge of a players signing like he said, many other sources would know. To say that eSports should cease to exist because of this is idiotic at best. I don't understand how anyone in this thread can really be on Slasher's side (Aside from not completely grasping what is really being said) because everyone is on Teamliquid for eSports. In order for eSports to continue to grow the sponsors need to see some ROI, and an nouncing major changes, new pickups etc... is one of the best ways to bring people to that brand. Does anyone in here REALLY think they benefit more from knowing Jaedong -> EG 2 days earlier? Did it change your life at all? I can't comprehend this lust for what Slasher does in the community when it's clearing hurting what you're all here for. No, success as a member of the team is what brings people to the brand. If Jaedong's announcement had gone through as EG had hoped, and even surpassed expectations, then the following day, Jaedong slipped on a banana peel and had to retire, the sponsors would be greatly disappointed. If a player signs for however much money, and fails to live up to expectations, then that's what hurts teams and sponsors. Generating hype from an announcement is a fantasy unless you know you have control over everyone who knows about the information. Major sports have trade rumors all the time, which are detrimental to the teams because no player wants to be mentioned as being shopped by his team, yet you don't hear actual sports teams bitching and complaining about how they are hurt by these rumors. They just 'no comment' or deny. That is what a professional organization does in response to "secrets" where there are adversarial parties who share that information. The difference though is that those sports teams are not dependent on sponsors so what is there really to hurt other than team moral? It's much different if a player doesn't want his team to know he's being shopped around because he feels bad than EG asking Slasher to not leak something so the sponsors that put money into this scene can get some more exposure. First, Slasher did not leak anything. Information was leaked to Slasher. Slasher reported it, which is what most reporters often do. Second, if EG's sponsors thought the information was known only to EG and would not be leaked, that is a problem between EG and their sponsor. Either EG betrayed their sponsor by leaking it, or by suckering them into an investment into the secrecy of information that was already out of EG's control. I can understand why EG's sponsors would be upset with EG. For EG to deflect the blame onto a reporter who obtained the information independently from official EG channels is childish. Third, "EG asking Slasher to not leak something" is very different than "EG and Slasher agreed to not report something". This is not "The world according to EG."
I feel like you didn't watch the episode... There are many teams bidding on players and obviously the players and management from his old team know he's leaving well in advance, (Which has spoiled announcements in the past) under no circumstances would the acquiring team be the only source to the pickup ever... The sponsors (Not being on the 'in' of the scene) may then look at EG and might think the management is doing a piss poor job because they can't seem to get rid of the leaks. I'm not articulating it right now as well as Alex did last night, but it's a valid point.
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its laughable that what Slasher does is even called journalism. the e-sports scene is so porous information-wise that it exclusively runs on peoples good will not to spoil. So what is the journalistic feat in being that guy who doesnt care about that? That doesnt make you a journalist, it makes you an asshole
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On January 17 2013 02:34 Wingblade wrote:
Whistleblowing as defined by the USA's office of special counsel includes gross mismanagement and an abuse of authority. Slasher abused his authority by damaging EG, and he mismanaged the information by writing a poor article
Ahahahaha I can't believe you're anything other than a troll now
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On January 17 2013 02:34 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 02:21 ELA wrote:On January 17 2013 02:17 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:10 JackDanger wrote:On January 17 2013 02:06 Wingblade wrote:On January 17 2013 02:04 JackDanger wrote:On January 17 2013 02:03 MstrJinbo wrote:
Personal relationships are also big deal. Reporters are privy to a lot of juicy bits of information that they don't report because it would hurt their ability to work with the involved parties in the future. And journalism is worse off because of it...if you follow political coverage this is plainly obvious. I'd rather have news with no journalists than journalists with no news. I didn't know those were mutually exclusive! Well if Slashers whistleblowing(because that's what it really is) takes views and attention away from the teams who have the news, that means less money. Less money will result in the team not being able to sign players, sponsors, which means less results, less attention, and even less money. Thus, it follows that teams who lose views to Slashers whistleblowing will ultimately be hurt over time and it wiol even have some effect in teams potentially shutting down in the future. Just to be clear of the terminology here; whistleblowing has nothing to with what Slasher is doing at all. To blow the whistle on something implies that what you are revealing are immoral actions/criminal activities which someone is actively trying to conceal. Since signing Jaedong or playing in Proleague with Liquid is neither of those things, but in fact really awesome news for everyone, what Slasher is doing can in no way be defined as whistleblowing. Whistleblowing as defined by the USA's office of special counsel includes gross mismanagement and an abuse of authority. Slasher abused his authority by damaging EG, and he mismanaged the information by writing a poor article
You can't make those claims without some info.
At the moment theres no info stating that EG took a hit because of it.
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The Drama is a secret plan by EG to bring traffic to the ITG vods.
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EPT
