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On April 21 2011 15:41 Telenil wrote:Show nested quote +Why would you send a 400€ CC directly in a battlefield and expect it to gather it's own resources om the spot? It would be much more logical to create a strike-group somewhere safe and just drop-pod it on the planet.. 6pool? Pff.. I am going for 0/200 battlecruiser rush! As the OP said, this post tries to sustain the suspension of disbelief. Ultimately, not everything is realistic, so if you look thoroughly at the mechanics, you may find something that still doesn't make sense. But it usually doesn't matter because you have to believe a few things in every story, it'es just that these things shouldn't be too obvious. Yes. There is another reason I don't try to find an explanation for everything: If I play, I don't want always think 'wait a second ... could this actually work? Can this be real?'
If I have an explanation for the base mechanics, I am in the mindset "Okay the rendering on screen distorts unit/structure size by a logarithmic function and some things are even completely left out, but it could work overall." This mindset helps to assume a "real" explanation (which I just don't know) even for things which were just needed to make the game work.
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On April 21 2011 10:32 Killcycle wrote:
For the arc of minerals: Minerals originate as highly dense remnants of dead stars ejected during a nova event or any kind of star death. This is of course actually true, that those materials are created with the absurd force of a nova which is able to melt atom cores together.
But if a nova would happen near a planetary system, the radiation would kill all life. I would like to envision the growth of mineral crystal arcs more of an organic process. I still will incorporate parts of the explanation (all minerals are probably from the same star or star group, explaining similar composition through the entire sector.)
On April 21 2011 10:38 Killcycle wrote:
Addition to the siege mode environmental adjustments: Planets are bigger or smaller. Gravitational forces are thus different, larger or smaller, depending on which planet. I'd think mechanics (or scientists) would have to adjust the hydraulics and etc. so that it can actually get up, without putting too much force to blow the pistons. I will incorporate this idea.
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If you want, i can look trough some of the stuff i got here from physics, chemistry and math / mech to check some of this stuff out, i know i have read about a exoskeleton before somewhere, the idea of a mobile HQ is prob somthing more align with basic military tacs or somthing like that (Anyone from the military with a tactical education might be of help on that part).
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lol how awesome and realistic!^^
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Very good post.
I think it would be a good idea to specify that all, and not just some, research is adaption to the local circumstances. So basically, you have some scientists with your original strike force, but a scientist can not do a lot of science without any equipment, which your SCVs manufacture in an Armory/Engineering Bay/Techlab etc.. Then, those scientists go inside those buildings, and are ordered to adapt specific technology to local gravity/atmosphere/microbiotic lifeforms/underground etc...
Obviously, you wouldn't have your top of the line military scientist on a pioneering expedition to some backwater planet, so all research they perform is usually not an improvement of the baseline equipment, but just a localisation, and thus does not provide any benefit at different locations. Also, this research can only be performed at location by a part of the drop force because only there they can actually see the exact local circumstances, and test which adaptions are needed for the baseline equipment to make it more effective there.
Also, i assume that the baseline weaponry and armor are usually quite adaptable, so this research performed in many cases only provide a very exact setting for whatever interchangable parts those thingies have, so for many upgrades, there is no need to actually deliver anything to your forces, but only to broadcast specific data.
Much of this is already in the original post, but i think it would be useful to state that you do not develop cutting edge technology in a military strike force to the edge of the sector.
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Love the ideas on research.
Also, as far as "invisible worker lines go" I think it would help to view Minerals and Gas as very powerful, all encompassing unobtanium off two different types.
1) Minerals can be transmuted to any form of MATTER. The amount of minerals required depends upon two factors: the size and complexity of the thing being built. Therefore, a factory, which is very large, nevertheless may need less minerals than a Thor, which is also huge but far more complex than a factory. Once collected in the CC, Nanomachines (For the Terran) break down the minerals into their base components and stream them over to whichever production facility needs it. The speed and small size off the nanotech is so great that it is nearly instantaneous over short areas (future battlefields, even Taldarim Altar, are MINISCULE compared to the sizes of planets, cities or even towns) and is completely invisible. As there is no way to disrupt this process, no indication of the stream is shown on the commanders display, as it is a vital but for all intents and purposes invincible supply line. It is not a vulnerability.
The zerg would use very small bio agents for the same purpose, explaining why they can only be built on the creep bio-carpet, through which the agents flow and the Protoss would perhaps use a pure energy breakdown and simply "beam" them into the range of a pylon. So advanced is the protoss psionic potential that simpler units can be warped directly onto a battlefield, with no need for specialized psionic "assembly".
2) Gas can be transmuted to an all powerful ENERGY source, the petrol of the future. The marine suit may be simply an armor with force-amplification through conventional means, such as an exoskeleton, hydraulics and lesser energy sources, but the marauder suit is so massive it has to be powered by vespene for the user to be able to move at all. The Zerg baneling is the purest usage of this gas: it simply ignites it all at once, showing the power of the gas along with zerg adaptability, to be able to evolve a species that can hold that destructive power in such a pure form within its shell without dying.
Protoss Psionic Web
As far as the Protoss go, the psionic web seems to fit in very well with the way they were designed, with a "purity of form". They waste no time or energy in eating and then converting that food into fuel (as any bio students know, it is a startlingly inefficient process). They draw and share energy straight from a power source, usually a pylon (see what they did there) that keeps them nourished and provides their machines with power.
will post again soon, this is a very fun topic! Hope i gave you something you can use.
EDIT: RESEARCH
To expand my support for the "research" aspect: it makes perfect sense that Terran units and vehicles etc. have some modular parts, various settings that maybe can even be remotely set. however, in a new planet and environment, you would have to be insane to fiddle with them randomly.
So you have these scientists who are more like "tinkerers" really, running rapid fire tests (with the aid of gas and minerals) to find out ways to better and better "optimize" their equipment. It doesn't take them much time, but gas, minerals and time are incredibly tight in the middle of a battle. For every upgrade, there are a standardized series of tests that must be run, and the equipment calibrated remotely based on the results of those tests.
Combat shields are interesting cases. I'm going to go ahead and say that really the physical "shields" you see are impractical in a future setting like this, and are merely "icons" for the benefit of the commander. In truth, these shields are like electromagnetic repulsors (again, the research time indicates trying to find a good way to have them up given the electromagnetic spectrum on that particular planet). They are unaffected by the EMP because, as Terran are the only ones with EMP, they have designed around it.
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Great read, was inspired by it and decided to add my own thing. Also, feel free to correct me, as my SC knowledge is a little rusty.
-Ghosts/Ghost acedemy. Ghosts are brought with the main fleet when moved to a new planet,kept in some form of statis, due to the fact that they require certain mental conditioning (especially out on the field of battle) it is unwise to bring them into the fight until a "Ghost Acedemy" has been constructed (Acedemy in this sense means keeping in line and conforming, rather than an actual training place) The acdemy also allows for certain protocols to be utilized by using minerals to increase the control of the ghost, allowing it to use cloaking and other things.
Hope you liked it
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On April 21 2011 20:19 Autofire2 wrote:
As far as the Protoss go, the psionic web seems to fit in very well with the way they were designed, with a "purity of form". They waste no time or energy in eating and then converting that food into fuel (as any bio students know, it is a startlingly inefficient process). They draw and share energy straight from a power source, usually a pylon (see what they did there) that keeps them nourished and provides their machines with power.
will post again soon, this is a very fun topic! Hope i gave you something you can use.
While i Do agree with this statement, there is some referance with zeratul that he spent years away from the other protoss while he was searching for clues to the hybrids, see source / link at the end, and there would not be that much light in the "void", you can almost see this as the "old part of a galaxy / dieing part, where there is allmost like a graveyard of stars reforming of the old ones, that would be more in line with how zeratul could survive the long journey and with how Protoss physiology gathers and process nutrients.
There also seem to be a way that Protoss Gathers nutrients, they gather the sun light itself, even going as far as moonlight (sunlight reflected of the moon).
Sources:
Zeratul biography
Protoss Physiology and other stuff
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I think I will add some suggestions from Scryedo89, Simberto, Autofire2 and Bswhunter. But I am not looking for too detailled technical explanations as it would get very long and could raise new questions. The main goal is to offer an explanation how at least the basics of base management could actually work in a real world.
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If you want, i can take a look on ravens / PDD (point defense drone) and the auto turret system.
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Haha, taking a page out of Artosis' book, what about salvaging bunkers? Specifically, deconstructing a bunker very quickly in enemy territory, while it is damaged and on fire, surrounded by zerglings AND getting a full refund for it. I'm curious how it's done.
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On April 22 2011 10:21 SolveN wrote:
Haha, taking a page out of Artosis' book, what about salvaging bunkers? Specifically, deconstructing a bunker very quickly in enemy territory, while it is damaged and on fire, surrounded by zerglings AND getting a full refund for it. I'm curious how it's done.
Hmm. Could be that they use sheet metal on either side of thick mineral plates (i.e the minerals weren't changed into anything else, they're still the crystals - just formed into plates) for the bunkers, so when they need to be salvaged they can just remove the minerals directly?
As for how they're salvaged in the heat of combat, i'm not sure.
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I was under the impression that the green healing beam was long-range micro surgery (see: medivac information in the campaign)
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I demand a drawn out and scientifically precise explanation of the green healy medic beam.
o now i see it
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On April 22 2011 12:30 Killcycle wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 10:21 SolveN wrote:
Haha, taking a page out of Artosis' book, what about salvaging bunkers? Specifically, deconstructing a bunker very quickly in enemy territory, while it is damaged and on fire, surrounded by zerglings AND getting a full refund for it. I'm curious how it's done. Hmm. Could be that they use sheet metal on either side of thick mineral plates (i.e the minerals weren't changed into anything else, they're still the crystals - just formed into plates) for the bunkers, so when they need to be salvaged they can just remove the minerals directly? As for how they're salvaged in the heat of combat, i'm not sure.
Perhaps they use a quantum singularity charge to teleport back all the internal components. The debris when refunding is nothing but cheap exterior and empty bear bottles.
EDIT: Come to think about it the bunker must have some internal components to aid soldiers. How else they get an +1 range if it weren't for target finding/spectrum analyzing devices in bunkers.
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This is really cool. Didn't think it would be possible to make it realistic but this is a pretty decent job.
Does it belong in the single player forum though? Seems more like a general observation of Starcraft 2 than something that only applies to single player.
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Germany3367 Posts
Really cool work, I can´t wait for the Zerg Base 
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On April 22 2011 16:36 stalking.d00m wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 12:30 Killcycle wrote:On April 22 2011 10:21 SolveN wrote:
Haha, taking a page out of Artosis' book, what about salvaging bunkers? Specifically, deconstructing a bunker very quickly in enemy territory, while it is damaged and on fire, surrounded by zerglings AND getting a full refund for it. I'm curious how it's done. Hmm. Could be that they use sheet metal on either side of thick mineral plates (i.e the minerals weren't changed into anything else, they're still the crystals - just formed into plates) for the bunkers, so when they need to be salvaged they can just remove the minerals directly? As for how they're salvaged in the heat of combat, i'm not sure. Perhaps they use a quantum singularity charge to teleport back all the internal components. The debris when refunding is nothing but cheap exterior and empty bear bottles. EDIT: Come to think about it the bunker must have some internal components to aid soldiers. How else they get an +1 range if it weren't for target finding/spectrum analyzing devices in bunkers.
Welll, It does not need to be anything specialy techy. A simple socket that lets you rest your gun on it is probably enough to increase the accuracy of the soldier when compared to him running around, and shooting with only his arms as stabilisation.
Also, i think it would be a generally good idea to refrain from using too much technobabble. It usually only leads to additional problems, and tends to look stupid to anyone who has a slight idea of the actual physics you are referencing to.
I think it is safe to assume that the terran military has no access to teleportation devices, otherwise they would probably find many additional better uses for that than teleporting back salvaged bunkers.
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On April 22 2011 20:45 Simberto wrote:
Also, i think it would be a generally good idea to refrain from using too much technobabble. It usually only leads to additional problems, and tends to look stupid to anyone who has a slight idea of the actual physics you are referencing to. Yes. A Star Trek type of "explanation" just replaces holes with other holes which just sound more sophisticated.
A bunker is made of recyclable parts which can be easily disassembled. Even if they are on fire, they still can be salvaged. Other structures are not made for recycling as it would make them more expensive and producing structures can fly anyway.
I will add it later to the Terran part ... right now I am off to eat something.
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EPT
