[D] What SC2 is missing? - Page 69

correct me if i'm wrong but this is what i got from the op. sc2 is a bad game because there's no micromanagement involved, everything is about min/maxing surface area for dps, there's no gameflow/map control, and sc2 isnt suspensful for the viewer.

maybe im misunderstanding because i myself was never a serious BW player. i played the campaign when i was 8 and lanned it with a group of friends for a summer in highschool (2006). but i never played or watched competively. however that doesnt make my opinion on some of the observations you've made about sc2. and frankly im sad you feel so quick to down play sc2 as a flat game thats oversimplified. id like to go through some of the points the op made and say my 2 cents about the elements in question.

-"there's no micro involed in battles" this is a gross simplification of things. in any battle in sc2 i find there's often too much to do, or that i can always do things better. you use protoss forcefield as an example. as zerg forcefield is a spell i constantly have to be ready for and respond to. i need roach burrow, or baneling drops against a sentry heavy army. both of which require micro. if i have queens around i can transfuse my roaches. if voidrays are involved in their composition i need to target fire those, or colossus for example, corruption helps tremendously against them. those are all just random/common examples. the way you describe micro in sc2 is nothing but pull micro and spell casters. but the bottom line is there is always several things to micro in any given mid-late game battle.

-you mention min/maxing surface area and how its a huge part of sc2, but then you go on to say that positioning is missing from the game. is this not contradicting? as zerg i want to maximize surface area because its favorable to my units. this effects when i attack and how. say im playing a game on metalopolis, and its close by air spawns. a terran tank push is making its way toward my base, i could sit there with my army balled up and wait. or i could position based on surface area. so i move my infestors into my base and wait for the perfect time to fungal/throw infested terran eggs, i move a small roach force to the gold along with some blings, and get a decent spread on my blings. are those not strategical decisions made to influence the outcome of that battle? is there no setup time involved in that.

-that game flow and map control play are less prevalent in sc2.
first ill talk about map control. as zerg i take the idea of map control and keep it in a very dear place in my heart. one of the advantages of my race is their great speed. so i utilize that speed in a way that controls the map. i'm ocd about holding the XNT's at all times. i use mutalisks to keep the opponent in their base, and i expand when i know my opponent cant push out on the map easily. if i know i have control of the map then i know my enemy cant attack me directly. so i prepare for dts, drops, banshees, anything that could catch me off guard. and when i lose a tower i scout his army positioning and prepare for an attack. its these fundamentals in play that demonstrate map control is still very much important in sc2. it may be easier than BW due to the xel naga towers but it still plays a fundamental role.

-as far as gameflow goes a large portion of that is answered with map control. and scouting. in sc2 you have to be aware of what your opponent plans to do and what their options are. those components effectively give you flow of the game. and in fact all the example you gave on game flow still imply in sc2, and you made no mention on how gameflow doesnt exist. for the sake of consistency ill give examples of game flow in sc2. when a terrans on three bases and turtling to 200 you can poke at their weak points to slow them down. fly mutas into their base while you attack their third with a sizable force. you kill some depots, a few tanks, and workers. in doing so your 4 base advantage trumps his 3. and you slow down the push or force an all in. another example is baneling dropping protoss mineral lines to slow their economy. or going burrow roach upon scouting 6 gate, stopping an attack cold.

-mechanics were more than a skillgap. im not sure what the argument here exactly is as you said saying somebody won the game because theyre faster is just stupid. and then you speak about unit dynamics and how sc2 you can 1a to victory and that is sufficient. and once again say the only type of micro one can execute is pull micro. as well as statements like, there are no clutch storms. etc etc. im not sure how familiar you are with sc2 but its no secret that mechanics are less taxing and easier to manage. so i dont see how mechanics have become only a skillgap when i feel if nothing, that gap has been bridged better. the game is more accessible by virtue of being easier to play. people can focus less on dropping depots, and making units and more on the strategical side of things. i consider this an excellent improvement in terms of gameplay and the argument that the games too easy is ridiculous. anyone who claims the game is too easy better be #1 or damn near close to it.

-in regards to your argument on the thrill of spectating sc2 as a sport, i must respectfully disagree with you. during the first few months what you say about wow factor and suspense was partially true. but as more and more strategies are figured out games have gotten exponentially exciting to watch. for instance the moment you see a group of banelings move toward the center of the map, or an obvious attack route; the seeds of suspense are sewn immediately. even the casters have trouble focusing on anything besides those inconspicuous banelings. and as the marine tank walks over, i can assure you everyone is holding their breath. and anything involving banelings honestly but thats the obvious answer to your doubts on sc2. what about the times when 3 ghosts creep up on a protoss army, and you know that the deciding factor of the preceding battle will be strong emps. how about the bunker thats repaired just in time, saving the entire terran base from destruction. or the stimmed marines that snipe that pivitol satalite expansion or tech structure when the the opponent is busy fighting a battle. even a unit that you made clear your opinion on, the sentry, can be used in truly beautiful and awe inspiring ways. fungal growth and neural parasite in conjunction with a great ling surround. or well practiced blink usage. or how about when a zerg players hold the protoss 6 gate that looked unstoppable only moments before, by the skin of his teeth, with a surge of roaches and lings, and then stomps all hopes of retreat. and lets not forget of course the obvious favorites; nydus worms, motherships, nukes. all a crowd pleaser.

CONCLUSION//TL:DR
in closing i hope you dont consider this a flame post. as i mentioned before i dont claim to know the ins and outs of BW. i played it casually but that is the extend of my knowledge. however i did my best to keep my post relevant to what the meat and bones of the OP pertains to. and the above was written out of interest in discussion. starcraft 2 is a great game. as it should be considering its heritage. however, for it to be truly enjoyed it must be seen in its own right. and not in the shadows of BW. so once again i mean no offense to the brood war vets because without you guys sc2 simply would not be what it was. i am simply here to remind that you should not let yourself get distracted by what it is. please feel free to comment and critique my thoughts. Thanks for reading