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This bug allows zerg players to baneling drop on armies directly on units even if there is no room.
When an overlord tries to drop onto an area that is saturated with units (an area in which there are too many units already so there is no room to drop), the overlord is usually unable to drop. However, if the drop command was ordered into fog of war, the overlord will be able to drop even if there is no room to drop.
This bug is important and affects game play because this makes baneling drops on opponent's armies much stronger because the zerg player can drop into the middle of the opponents army. Furthermore, this invalidates toss using forcefields to "squeeze" his army together and make it impossible to drop on.
PICTURES
Army setup with a ring of FFs preventing any lings/bling from getting in and packing the army together tightly.
![[image loading]](http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9973/screenshot2011040719192.jpg) pic setup here
This is what happens when you order the drop when you have vision of the place where you are attempting to drop on. Notice the message appearing on the left that says units can't be dropped there
PIC HERE
Now this is that happens with the same units when the drop was ordered when the zerg player had no vision of the army at the time of the drop command. The armies were in exactly the same place and both were packed very tightly.
and then
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/1696/screenshot2011040719273.jpg
See the difference?
here is a replay showing what I am talking about.
http://www.mediafire.com/?sfu8hgx3lmgr34e
Watch the replay using the vision of the zerg player that is dropping.
fix this bug blizzard! (I posted this on blizz forum as wel)
Edit: I also found out that doing a drop while moving (d+click on ovie) does something similar, but only if you order the drop while there is still room to drop. So, for example, if you order the drop while there is no room, nothing will be dropped at all. However, if you order the drop while there is room to drop and then move your overlords over an area where there is no room to drop, they will still drop even though there is no room.
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...Normally if there are units in the fog of war where an overlord is dropping, it is assumed that the other player knows the drop is coming. Thus, the overlord will be killed before it has a chance to drop its units.
Anyways, baneling drops are usually in the form of baneling carpet bombs, so you will always have vision in the area you want to drop due to the d+click on overlord technique.
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TUski, I'm talking about a carpet bombing that happens at the same time as a an attack. So, for example, the zerg player would swarm with lings and carpet bomb at the same time. With this bug, it would be good for zerg players to "guess" where the army is and que and drop command there so that if the army is in fact there, the drop will be extremely effective.
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TUski, carpet bombing doesn't require vision though... at least the common way I remember it (move, queue unload on overlord, queue move).
With regards to the OP though, I don't see it being too viable/useful. How often is an opposing army going to stay in the same spot the whole time while overlords move to drop? I guess it can happen, but it seems quite unlikely, considering the dangers both protoss and terran have of just sitting around vs a zerg army,
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I'm not saying that it would be used every game, but the mass ling/bling strategy that I see on masters ladder from time to time in z v p makes it matter. This is because my strategy in that matchup is to make stalker/colo/sentry (as gas allows) and when i attack, hug a wall and forcefield off the lings and then have my army so tight against the wall that the attempted carpetbombing is completely ineffective because there is no room to drop. Wins with this strategy are hillarious because my army takes very little damage and the zerg loses a lot.
This strategy is countered hard if the banelings can drop on my tightly packed army.
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thank you for testing this in unit tester before bringing it to this forum. thank you sir.
okay so i'm obviously being sarcastic you can drop banelings on an army regardless of space. go try it out like on a unit tester before coming here.
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@majestouch
1. Your are completely wrong: if units are tightly packed enough, more units cannot be dropped on them
2. I did test in in a unit tester, 2 in fact
3. There is a replay of this being tested in a unit tester in the OP
Please read, think, and stop being a trolling asshole. Thank you.
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On April 08 2011 10:51 cmpcmp wrote:
@majestouch
1. Your are completely wrong: if units are tightly packed enough, more units cannot be dropped on them
2. I did test in in a unit tester, 2 in fact
3. There is a replay of this being tested in a unit tester in the OP
Please read, think, and stop being a trolling asshole. Thank you.
That is retarded. So you can pack 10 roaches into a little ball with forcefields but you can't drop a baneling on a packed group of units?
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On April 08 2011 10:51 cmpcmp wrote:
@majestouch
1. Your are completely wrong: if units are tightly packed enough, more units cannot be dropped on them
2. I did test in in a unit tester, 2 in fact
3. There is a replay of this being tested in a unit tester in the OP
Please read, think, and stop being a trolling asshole. Thank you.
i'm not trolling. pictures don't tell much and you're not worth my time to fraps/start my stream then go through a process of linking you.
i'm assuming you're clicking and droping. I drop WHILE i move, I know its a difficult concept to grasp for you, the units drop around them and once they die (after the first volley of drops) then THEN drop in the middle. regardless, you're opponent has to be TERRIBLE to let you drop in the fog this has no use in competitive play period.
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@majestouch
In game I setup my army like this when the opponent is trying to drop on me with banelings.
This positioning is impossible to hurt with banelings, unless you abuse the bug that this thread is about.
Also, the forcefields make it so that my army can't move without using the colo to break the forcefields.
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try move the ovie full of baneling on top of the army. and press D and click at the overlord.
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OP has been updated with pictures and more information.
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cool findings, but not very likely scenarios in real games ^^
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The most important question here is, what do we call this? The cmpcmp drop?
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How often would you order overlords to drop in the middle of fog of war?
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I consider it more of a bug that you CAN'T drop banelings in some situations.
EDIT: Also, please explain how this could ever occur in a real game? You preemptively use forcefields when you see him coming and... he drops on you before he sees you...? What?
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Does this work with Warp Prisms and Medivacs?
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Wow, this is pretty huge, and scary tbh xD
But hopefully this won't be too big of a problem since you'd need to guess where your opponent will be =O
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Maybe I'm the only one who feels this way...but it seems like more a bug that, in this laboratory setting of the unit tester, you can't drop units from overlords onto the army using a normal method.
"this invalidates toss using forcefields to "squeeze" his army together and make it impossible to drop on."
"Wins with this strategy are hillarious because my army takes very little damage and the zerg loses a lot."
Yea, as a random player, I find this much buggier--the impossibility of dropping on that death ball--than the discovery of an impractical method of clicking on the army from the minimap. Perhaps the wins are hilarious because, to a zerg player, we assume that we can drop banelings at any time. This one exception to the normal dropping methods--too many clumped units--seems like the bug. OP, why do you think that a Zerg should not be able to drop on your death ball?
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There is a way to carpet bomb on a clumped up protoss army. It's been mentioned before: press d (or whatever the hotkey is for drop units) and click on the loaded overlord instead of the ground. It's the way people drop units while the overlord is moving. Even if you lose a couple of banelings because you start dropping right before your army, you'll still score massive hits. Besides, the scenario that you mentioned is rather unlikely to happen and I can't see it happening in a serious game.
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On April 08 2011 13:25 TangyChicken wrote:
There is a way to carpet bomb on a clumped up protoss army. It's been mentioned before: press d (or whatever the hotkey is for drop units) and click on the loaded overlord instead of the ground. It's the way people drop units while the overlord is moving. Even if you lose a couple of banelings because you start dropping right before your army, you'll still score massive hits. Besides, the scenario that you mentioned is rather unlikely to happen and I can't see it happening in a serious game.
This.
On April 08 2011 13:17 Zerg-Master wrote:
I consider it more of a bug that you CAN'T drop banelings in some situations.
This.
On April 08 2011 13:15 Mailing wrote:
How often would you order overlords to drop in the middle of fog of war?
And this.
And this strategy, which I don't think works against moving overlord drops (which is what EVERYONE does), would be completely dependent on perfect forcefielding as you would have to cover every time space that a baneling could drop and one little spot open and there goes your whole army.
Not that any of that matters, anyway.
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Pretty cool find. I wonder if this has really impacted professional games; it'll be hard for us to look back and know.
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On April 08 2011 11:04 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 10:51 cmpcmp wrote:
@majestouch
1. Your are completely wrong: if units are tightly packed enough, more units cannot be dropped on them
2. I did test in in a unit tester, 2 in fact
3. There is a replay of this being tested in a unit tester in the OP
Please read, think, and stop being a trolling asshole. Thank you. That is retarded. So you can pack 10 roaches into a little ball with forcefields but you can't drop a baneling on a packed group of units?
^, this is so correct.
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You should never be able to drop when there is no room, but i think banelings should me made an exception since they're basically explosives, so you WANT to drop it on units instead of on land.
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On April 08 2011 13:32 Uhh Negative wrote:
And this strategy, which I don't think works against moving overlord drops (which is what EVERYONE does), would be completely dependent on perfect forcefielding as you would have to cover every time space that a baneling could drop and one little spot open and there goes your whole army.
Not that any of that matters, anyway.
It's not quite that simple. Even if there are spaces in a ball that some banelings can drop into, an effect like this is still significant if it delays even some of the drops. That provides more time for the overlords to be taken out and more time for the enemy units to do damage. Looks like a little more testing is needed to be clear on exactly when units underneath interfere with drops.
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I think all the OP succeeded in doing was open up a discussion as to how to successfully baneling drop a clumped toss army. As a zerg player I didn't realize this was an issue, but as some people have responded, seems like its easily fixed by clicking on the loaded overlord with the drop command (much easier than guessing the fog of war). Sorry to the OP, it was a clever idea to clump your army to prevent drops, but I would consider it more of a bug that this prevents being dropped on. Perhaps I should post on the blizzard forums about this bug that zerg can't drop normally on clumped toss armies hehe.
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Yea as far as i know nobody drops on a particular spot as the opposing army simply has to move away to completely negate the point of dropping the banelings in the first place. Everytime i see it they click drop on the overlord so they drop while moving and following the army. Are you saying that if units are packed tight enough even this method is not possible? Cause i have not experienced this and i would say that that would be a major bug. And if not then this method has no application whatsoever considering you have to guess where their army is and ask them to stand still.
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I think it should remain this way- because it will be even more amazing if someone can make this work.
This is how to make a risky strategy even riskier. XD
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Well I went in the unit tester and tried some things and I think I understand the problem. If you pack all your units together like in the picture then you cannot issue a drop command on top of the units because there is no available room to drop (this means that even if you hit the unload command while the overlord is moving to carpet bomb it still won't drop because there is no room), however if you issue the drop command when there is room available to drop then the overlord will carry out the command even if there is no room to drop when it begins unloading its units. So actually you don't have to issue the drop command in the fog of war to drop on the army you just have to issue it when there is room available to drop.
Anyway my final thoughts are that this should not be changed. Zerg has it hard enough ZvP and if the Zerg can order a drop command, then trick you into force fielding in your army and have the drop command carry out and bomb your army then he simply outplayed you and you lost the game not a bug.
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In the process of making this, I found out (its in the OP now) that you can still drop on an army even if there is no room if you "d" click the overlords while they are over open ground and then fly them over the protoss army. Basically overlords will continue to drop banelings no matter what if the first one successfully gets dropped.
HOWEVER This does not work if you "d" click the overlord when it can't drop. You will simply get an error warning that says you can't drop and no banelings will drop.
This seems at the very least inconsistent, and is probably a bug. Blizzard needs to either ALWAYS let overlords drop banelings (which I think would be a little OP, but to each his own) or they need to make it so that if there is no room to drop banelings, banelings can never be dropped.
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On April 08 2011 11:04 Uhh Negative wrote:Show nested quote +On April 08 2011 10:51 cmpcmp wrote:
@majestouch
1. Your are completely wrong: if units are tightly packed enough, more units cannot be dropped on them
2. I did test in in a unit tester, 2 in fact
3. There is a replay of this being tested in a unit tester in the OP
Please read, think, and stop being a trolling asshole. Thank you. That is retarded. So you can pack 10 roaches into a little ball with forcefields but you can't drop a baneling on a packed group of units? I agree, the baneling bombs actually has merit and makes sense, they fall out of overlords and detonate. A force field shouldn't be able to make a group of lings or roaches into one roach on top of another. How about blizzard fixes that bug as well while there at it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/7246/screenshot2011040719265.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/1696/screenshot2011040719273.jpg)
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