• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:58
CEST 23:58
KST 06:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview5[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris42Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195
StarCraft 2
General
2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves #2: Serral - Greatest Players of All Time #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Kirktown Chat Brawl #8 - 4.6K max Tonight LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies
Brood War
General
Post ASL20 Ro24 discussion. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft at lower levels TvP Easiest luckies way to get out of Asl groups BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro24 Group F [IPSL] CSLAN Review and CSLPRO Reimagined! Small VOD Thread 2.0 Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
How Culture and Conflict Imp…
TrAiDoS
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 668 users

Shakuras Positional Imbalance

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
Sadist
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States7244 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 00:55:53
April 05 2011 00:49 GMT
#1
Blizzard has done it again. I couldn't find a topic on this and wondered if people realized it.

The natural expansions have a different amount of airspace near them leading to issues when trying to defend flying units.
[image loading]

Shown here is the top right position (it works on the bottom left position as well). Even a marine will hit a flying unit at the farthest possible edge of the map.

Now compare this to:
[image loading]

and
[image loading]

Where even thors cant hit the flying unit.

This is a pretty serious imbalance imo. I first noticed this while trying to defend muta harass and had never really run into it before. Why does blizzard insist on not fixing these things
How do you go from where you are to where you want to be? I think you have to have an enthusiasm for life. You have to have a dream, a goal and you have to be willing to work for it. Jim Valvano
Cush
Profile Joined September 2010
United States646 Posts
April 05 2011 00:52 GMT
#2
Mabye because they have better things to do? idk, but good catch
"That's not your main base Stardust.....Stardust.....that's not your main" Sayle
Dalguno
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2446 Posts
April 05 2011 00:52 GMT
#3
Wow, that really is huge. I can't believe that hasn't been noticed. Hopefully Blizz will react as quickly as they did with the Shattered Temple blink stalker imbalance with this.
"I'm gonna keep making drones cause I'm a baller, and ballers make drones." -Snute
vict1019
Profile Joined December 2010
United States401 Posts
April 05 2011 00:53 GMT
#4
Why do you think ground units should be able to hit air units in all areas of the map? By this logic I think every single map is imbalanced because of this since all maps have corners where air units/ovies can hide.
Evil Geniuses - The Yankees of ESports(without the results)
Moonling
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States987 Posts
April 05 2011 00:53 GMT
#5
To a map developer maybe it was easy to look over? Just think nobody noticed it till you just did good find i would post it in b.net forums though
1% of koreans control 99% of starcraft winnings. #occupykorea.
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 00:54:40
April 05 2011 00:54 GMT
#6
On April 05 2011 09:53 vict1019 wrote:
Why do you think ground units should be able to hit air units in all areas of the map? By this logic I think every single map is imbalanced because of this since all maps have corners where air units/ovies can hide.

read the op...

classic blizzard map making
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
Shaetan
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States1175 Posts
April 05 2011 00:54 GMT
#7
I'm pretty sure he's saying it should be uniform
not that all should be hittable.
My Casts: www.youtube.com/Shaetan
Seide
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States831 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 00:55:37
April 05 2011 00:54 GMT
#8
On April 05 2011 09:52 Cush wrote:
Mabye because they have better things to do? idk, but good catch

"Maybe they have better things to do?"
Better things than making their own game better?
What is your problem?

On Topic: That imbalance is actually pretty huge, is the bottom left spawn the same as the top right?
One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
neobowman
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3324 Posts
April 05 2011 00:54 GMT
#9
Only Blizzard maps have this kind of imbalances because the refused to put in a mirror tool and they refuse to use the copy/paste mirror method that all the other (GSL, iCCup) mapmakers use.
kaisuki
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia68 Posts
April 05 2011 00:55 GMT
#10
What about the bottom left expansion? I'm assuming marines can hit that one because the map is mirrored?
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
April 05 2011 00:55 GMT
#11
On April 05 2011 09:53 vict1019 wrote:
Why do you think ground units should be able to hit air units in all areas of the map? By this logic I think every single map is imbalanced because of this since all maps have corners where air units/ovies can hide.

Don't be dense. Its the positional imbalance that's the issue here, not being able to hit air units or not.
Moderator
dcemuser
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3248 Posts
April 05 2011 00:56 GMT
#12
On April 05 2011 09:53 vict1019 wrote:
Why do you think ground units should be able to hit air units in all areas of the map? By this logic I think every single map is imbalanced because of this since all maps have corners where air units/ovies can hide.


I don't think he's trying to say that ground units should be able to hit the air units.

The imbalanced position is clearly the one in the upper right. Air units should be able to dodge in and out at all naturals or at NO naturals. Not 3 and 1.
Woyn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United Kingdom1628 Posts
April 05 2011 00:56 GMT
#13
Its strange that this difference seems to mirror diagonally
Angelbelow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3728 Posts
April 05 2011 00:56 GMT
#14
Hmm, this should be addressed... Very big positional disadvantage here.
You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
April 05 2011 00:57 GMT
#15
Nice catch. Dunno if Blizzard will rectify this, but it does seem to be a significant imbalance.

I've noticed that Shakuras isn't exactly symmetrical. The entire map is slightly slanted like a parallelogram, and I suspect that this may have been the major cause of the imbalance.

Also, have you checked the airspace for the bottom left expansion? If my theory about "Shakuras = parallelogram" is correct, that expo should also have a smaller airspace, unless there is more map imbalance shenanigans afoot.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Whitewing
Profile Joined October 2010
United States7483 Posts
April 05 2011 00:58 GMT
#16
Probably a result of shakuras being designed as a 2v2 map, and being symmetrical along the diagonal.
Strategy"You know I fucking hate the way you play, right?" ~SC2John
Jimmeh
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United Kingdom908 Posts
April 05 2011 00:59 GMT
#17
On April 05 2011 09:57 eviltomahawk wrote:
Nice catch. Dunno if Blizzard will rectify this, but it does seem to be a significant imbalance.

I've noticed that Shakuras isn't exactly symmetrical. The entire map is slightly slanted like a parallelogram, and I suspect that this may have been the major cause of the imbalance.

Also, have you checked the airspace for the bottom left expansion? If my theory about "Shakuras = parallelogram" is correct, that expo should also have a smaller airspace, unless there is more map imbalance shenanigans afoot.



The OP wrote:

Shown here is the top right position (it works on the bottom left position as well). Even a marine will hit a flying unit at the farthest possible edge of the map.
hitman133
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1425 Posts
April 05 2011 01:00 GMT
#18
Wow that was a huge issue right there, and Thor can shoot that banshee down easily.
Deleted User 108965
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1096 Posts
April 05 2011 01:02 GMT
#19
im confused as to how this even happens tbh. it seems like they could just make everything symmetrical couldnt they? i mean they could move the details around but keep the same structural symmetry?
Disciple....Top 3 control in Clarion County
Wrongspeedy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-05 01:05:04
April 05 2011 01:04 GMT
#20
Edit: Nvm I'm just dumb :D
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
1 2 3 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL Team Wars
19:00
Round 5
Team Bonyth vs Team Hawk
Team Dewalt vs Team Sziky
ZZZero.O69
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 187
CosmosSc2 96
ProTech58
ForJumy 9
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 229
LaStScan 140
sSak 123
ZZZero.O 69
NaDa 14
League of Legends
JimRising 571
Counter-Strike
fl0m1985
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King51
Other Games
tarik_tv23567
gofns16251
summit1g4227
FrodaN4120
Grubby2717
KnowMe320
Sick148
Livibee111
ROOTCatZ36
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1668
BasetradeTV33
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 50
• davetesta28
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 29
• iopq 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22256
• WagamamaTV500
• Ler72
• Noizen24
League of Legends
• Doublelift4583
Counter-Strike
• Shiphtur193
Other Games
• imaqtpie990
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
12h 2m
Soulkey vs BeSt
Snow vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
18h 2m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Maru vs SHIN
MaNa vs MaxPax
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs Astrea
Classic vs sOs
[ Show More ]
BSL Team Wars
4 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
GuMiho vs Cham
ByuN vs TriGGeR
Cosmonarchy
5 days
TriGGeR vs YoungYakov
YoungYakov vs HonMonO
HonMonO vs TriGGeR
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Cure vs Bunny
Creator vs Zoun
BSL Team Wars
6 days
Team Hawk vs Team Sziky
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS1
WardiTV Summer 2025
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
Maestros of the Game
Sisters' Call Cup
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
Skyesports Masters 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.