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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:22 Yaotzin wrote: Do any of the people saying colossi don't require micro actually play P? I'm far from a good player, but they really aren't hard to control. You need to keep your units around them yes, but the positioning is, for the most part, the only micro they require. They're siege units, which implies the bulk of the skill requirement behind them is positioning and protection. | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + We felt late game protoss splash damage was slightly overpowered. This applies both to high templars and colossi. We felt that if we were to nerf both of these units protoss may end up too weak in the late game. Therefore, we decided to adjust high templars first and see how the game plays out. As we’ve mentioned many times before, we feel it’s safer to take small steps in making balance changes than making drastic changes to an entire race. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:22 Yaotzin wrote: Do any of the people saying colossi don't require micro actually play P? Running away from viking / corruptor to let stalkers kill them, or move&shoot are pretty basic stuff... | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:25 Daralii wrote: I'm far from a good player, but they really aren't hard to control. You need to keep your units around them yes, but the positioning is, for the most part, the only micro they require. They're siege units, which implies the bulk of the skill requirement behind them is positioning and protection. Micro to protect and position is still micro. I'd say gateways need an advantage over warpgates even after you research the tech. Changing all gateways into warpgates shouldn't be a no-brainer choice. No. Protoss is supposed to only have warpgates. In alpha Protoss began the game with warpgates. Gateways and warpgate tech exist exclusively to stop retarded rushes. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:27 Noocta wrote: Running away from viking / corruptor to let stalkers kill them, or move&shoot are pretty basic stuff... All micro is basic stuff. It's speed and accuracy which make up the skill, and colossus micro is the same as any other there. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:22 Yaotzin wrote: Do any of the people saying colossi don't require micro actually play P? I said they should require MORE micro. Reading comprehension. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:22 Yaotzin wrote: Do any of the people saying colossi don't require micro actually play P? Yeah? Once you get collosi in a good position, they do everything else for you. Protoss players aren't microing collosus much at all in an exchange, they're forcefielding and microing stalkers. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:31 yamato77 wrote: I said they should require MORE micro. Reading comprehension. I didn't even read your post. They're a siege unit, removing their range defeats their purpose and makes them complete garbage against vikings and marauders. Yeah? Once you get collosi in a good position, they do everything else for you. Protoss players aren't microing collosus much at all in an exchange, they're forcefielding and microing stalkers. Sorry I should have been clear. When I say colossus micro I include the micro used to protect them. No different to tank micro. "All" tanks require is move+siege, simple! In reality of course it takes great skill to position and protect them, same as with colossi. | ||
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eot
146 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:30 Yaotzin wrote: All micro is basic stuff. It's speed and accuracy which make up the skill, and colossus micro is the same as any other there. Siege tanks require much more finesse to use properly. If you unsiege at the wrong moment you can lose all your tanks. Same thing with Reavers, they required much more skill to use effectively and were more interesting because of it. | ||
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sagefreke
United States241 Posts
Personally I would like to see a different spell on the corruptors than some boring single target damage amplifier. It really doesn't offer much help in battles and if you look at the other races' air to air units, they have SOMETHING that allows it to attack ground in some way shape or form. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
1) protoss being underpowered (but i guess a lot of you like that ideia since you dont care about a balanced game as long as you can win more easily) 2) even less variety in units. If something, it should be accompanied but some other buff and / or change that allows other units to be used. | ||
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Spawkuring
United States755 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:24 andrewlt wrote: I'd say gateways need an advantage over warpgates even after you research the tech. Changing all gateways into warpgates shouldn't be a no-brainer choice. I'm starting to feel the same way. Initially, Blizzard made warp gates provide a build time discount in order to encourage its use over gateways, but we're really starting to see how much impact they have on other protoss units and the game in general. Gateway units have to be nerfed to compensate for warp gates, HT get the nerf-bat purely because of warp-in, and none of it changes the fact that PvP is still a 4gatecolossi-fest. Removing warp-in is excessive, but I think that there should probably be a penalty to using them, rather than a bonus. If this happens, then we might actually see core P units buffed and not be forced to rely so heavily on 4gate, colossi, and sentries. | ||
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Sabu113
United States11082 Posts
Their next update will be of much more interest. | ||
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DNA61289
United States665 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:35 eot wrote: Siege tanks require much more finesse to use properly. If you unsiege at the wrong moment you can lose all your tanks. Same thing with Reavers, they required much more skill to use effectively and were more interesting because of it. If you overcommit with a colossus poke, or let your stalkers move too far away you lose everything too. It's hardly uncommon for someone to mess up and lose half their colossi to the viking swarm. Admittedly it's much easier against Zerg, but that's just because Zerg suck. | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:38 Spawkuring wrote: I'm starting to feel the same way. Initially, Blizzard made warp gates provide a build time discount in order to encourage its use over gateways, No they didn't. They started out by making warpgates, then they made gateways (again) to stop cheeses. Gateways produce slower than warpgates for the same reason: rushes would be too strong otherwise. The game is designed around warpgates, for good or ill. It will never change. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:30 Yaotzin wrote: All micro is basic stuff. It's speed and accuracy which make up the skill, and colossus micro is the same as any other there. No, it's not. There is not a single other unit, in both BW and SC2, that can deal splash damage at that range while being a-moved. They move faster than high templar, too. As fast as non-upgraded zealots, in fact. Siege tanks have to be in siege mode before they can deal splash damage. They have a minimum range and they have friendly fire. They don't have splash damage while moving. Lurkers (BW-only) can't attack without being burrowed. They can't move while burrowed. Spider mines (BW-only) have to be planted in the ground one by one. Reavers (BW-only) are so slow they need to be babysat with a shuttle transporting them around. Psionic storm, irradiate, plague, fungal growth are all spells which have to be casted and aimed manually. The precedent from BW is, you gotta earn your splash damage. You can't just a-move it around. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
You can a-move with them... | ||
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recklessfire
United States373 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On April 05 2011 04:46 andrewlt wrote: The precedent from BW is, you gotta earn your splash damage. You can't just a-move it around. The game changed though. The power of bioballs in particular necessitates a somewhat simple splash damage mechanism. Zerg got banelings, Protoss got colossus. Both races pretty much require these units to stop nasty stim bioballs. Splash was less important in BW due to the crap pathfinding and bigger unit boxes. For that reason splash has to be easier to get/use in SC2. | ||
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