Situation Report: Patch 1.3 - Page 19

On April 06 2011 14:48 manicshock wrote:


Agree with this. I've always felt gateway units are strong.

On April 06 2011 14:09 Dommk wrote:

Trading Carrier for Viking is never a good trade, you need a critical mass for Carriers to do well, combine that with their cost and build time as well as their cost to operate...being "cost effective" isn't enough

People tend to leave out cost of interceptors too. When you have a fleet of 6+ Carriers, your money drains FAST, you can easily spend 1k+ Minerals every fight, and even if your winning you really aren't because you just spent 1k+ minerals that fight on interceptors.

A single BattleCruiser can change how a game is played yet even when you have four Carriers you still don't get the effect.

The unit needs less cost effective counters. Marines, Viking and Battle Cruisers do so darn well against Carrier where as Protoss very inefficient counters to Battle Cruisers, the only real good cost effective counter to Battle Cruisers Protoss has does terrible against everything else. That same dynamic needs to exist for Carriers, just as Protoss counters aren't very cost effective against Battle Cruisers, Terran counters have to be less effective against Carriers, so that even a few Carriers can have the same gameplay shift you get when a few Battle Cruisers are in the field. Marines in broodwar were never as good against Carriers how Marines in SC2 are, they should return a little of that balance back.

On April 06 2011 06:24 tdt wrote:

The only way gateway is viable is having a couple bases over a terran or even with Zerg and just throw units away like Adelscott did with MVP. Lost like 35000 to 20000 but still won the game. Slight mid game buffs to WG and col nerf could be very interesting but without it they just die in droves.

On April 06 2011 23:28 Blacklizard wrote:


It's great different styles work, but I'd hate to see Protoss get relegated to the completely inefficient swarm play like in PvT SC/BW again. Keep the special abilities and AOE powerful! That's what P is supposed to be about!

But I would rather see a colossus nerf than no amulet. Or amulet giving partial energy at least. Or warp prisms come with speed. Something so harassment and scrappy action packed games is an option for P.

EDIT: If, and I'm not at all convinced myself (I consider David Kim's and Jinro's comments to be important and Protoss was performing better on these big maps... but I think other races are figuring them out, see the GSL World results), but if Protoss lategame is a little too strong with AOE, wouldn't a colossus nerf in the form of more food make more sense? That way early and midgame isn't as affected, since gas is the limiting factor. And late game food count will be the limiting factor. Colossus fix - 6 food to 8. There you have it.

On April 05 2011 03:00 Daralii wrote:

A single round of warp-ins is rarely enough to handle a couple medivacs full of M&M, especially if given room to kite.

On April 07 2011 00:22 Acrofales wrote:

Nor should it be, which is why KA was removed. A couple of medivacs full is at a minimum 20 supply (4 for 2 medivacs and 8 for whatever's in them), assuming with "couple" you mean 2. Assuming 7 warp gates you can warp in 14 supply. 7 DTs should easily whipe out 2 medivacs' content, but assuming zealots, this should not be able to deal with 16 marines and 2 medivacs, no.

On April 07 2011 00:39 Apolo wrote:


7dt's... who in his right mind would waste 875 gas on the hopes the T doesnt scan? Seriously, 875 gas as a good way to stop a drop? is that the kind of suggestions going around here? Thats probably the least cost efficient way to kill a drop ever. Not only that, they will be useless in a battle as terrans always just need stim and scan in a battle and all dt's are past.

On April 07 2011 03:58 Blacklizard wrote:
Medivac drops. Umm, zealots are good at killing marines one at a time being dropped... but the Terran wouldn't drop them on top of waiting zealots.

As Protoss
-Just warp in 1 or 2 dark templar along with zealots/stalkers to help stop drops. Very critical. Not totally buying the amulet nerf on high templar b/c they were too good at stopping drops except for pure marine. Was that a problem?
- Do not warp in visible gateway units anywhere near the medivac, or you will lose expensive gateway units for nothing.


As Terran trying to get a good drop off
- Take the time to build that one raven. Heavy bio terrans have excess gas anyway. Spot observers on the way, pdd when you get there to avoid stalker damage. Blink or not, it wont matter. Dark templar won't matter. So much win. Obviously not convenient for 3 drops at once, but you can't win 'em all.
- Drop outside of P vision. Stim and run in when most of your guys are out seems to be the better option when possible. Right?
- Stim kite.
- Pick up units if ever there is a doubt. Picking up units is instantaneous and works in an area in SC2, so retreating is super easy. With enough APM, bio drops are very safe for the Terran unless there is no escape route. Maps make the big differences here obviously.

On April 07 2011 08:31 Zanno wrote:
i think whoever designed the original khaydarin amulet (and all the caster energy upgrades) must have left blizzard or something

the whole point of the khaydarin amulet in bw is that a templar with full energy gets 3 psi storms off instead of 2

im not sure why they didn't revert the upgrade back to its original logic instead of remove it outright

On April 07 2011 08:45 FabledIntegral wrote:


No it wasn't. Khaydarin Amulet was much more beneficial for the reason it made your templar spawn with about ~68 energy instead of 50 energy in BW, not because of adding an additional +50 energy to the maximum energy pool amount.

On April 07 2011 09:14 Zanno wrote:
tell that to my lategame cannon wall

energy ups in bw caused you to spawn in with 63 energy. it's a huge help, absolutely, but spawning with 63 energy is way, way different than spawning with 75 energy and being able to storm on the drop

On April 07 2011 09:03 Jayrod wrote:
The last thing protoss needs is a reason for all the non-protoss players to pretend like we can get by with no micro. If you buff the carrier its only a matter of time before all the low master and below players talk about how they take no micro to use and how easy it is for protoss etc. Bad players for any race dont micro.

The only thing I dont like about protoss at the moment besides PvP being monotonous is the fact that there really isn't a viable way to leave your base in the mid-game, so you're sort of forced to turtle and do little harass tactics (if even that) because you army is so weak in medium sizes. You cant do like terrans and send a medium sized 25 food force to go pick off an expansion and spread your opponents army out so you have to just defend defend defend until a big attack. Its not that the protoss player likes sitting in their base... its just with the way the game is right now, theres not a whole lot you can do outside of your base without basically throwing the game away... ESPECIALLY against zerg. PvZ feels like an elaborate tower defense game and its not by choice but because of the fact that moving out in the midgame = death.

On April 07 2011 09:30 Sweetness.751 wrote:



Um can't every unit kill anything when it spawns? Your statement makes no sense. Except for Infestors, the Templar now have to sit on their ass when a battle ensues. 150 gas to a unit that cant participate in a battle is retarded. Plus the AoE if Templar are only good if you can blanket the ground with them. Storm rarely does more than 40 damage to any given unit because the opponent can move out of the storm. No other spell does this, and no other spell can be dodged so easily. Unless you have 900 gas worth of Templar, they really are not effective during battle situations, only harassment. And warping in 900 gas worth of units that can't attack after a major battle (for 40ish seconds) is the dumbest in game decision a Protoss can make. That is why Templar are rarely good, and now worse.