EPTSituation Report: Patch 1.3 - Page 16
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Velr
Switzerland10903 Posts
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ehalf
408 Posts
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VEReHrT
Canada121 Posts
My concern is that their rationale for far too many of the changes depends upon mistakes made at a low level of play - hence patching things that are only imbalanced because of error on the part of the player, not due to the inherent makeup of the game. Wouldn't good zerg players simply mitigate this through spreading out their infestors? + Show Spoiler + Infestors are fairly slow moving and have high costs. We felt that one EMP shutting down multiple Infestors was too much. Again, good players should be able to spread out their casting units to mitigate EMPs. What especially concerned me was "different skill levels..." + Show Spoiler + Early/mid game sentries are almost a requirement vs. terran. However, there were scenarios at different skill levels where one EMP would manage to luck out and hit every single sentry, making it so that protoss had no chance to stop the mass Stimpack terran army. "Without employing effective scouting". By that logic DT rush, banshee rush, and a plethora of strategies are "imbalanced", some more so than an unscouted stim push would be. I can only see this applying to very low levels of play. + Show Spoiler + Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds. Stimpack timing pushes by terran players can be extremely difficult for opponents to stop without employing effective scouting. We wanted these types of pushes to come slightly later in order to provide more time for opponents to prepare for these attacks and to potentially get scouting units together to effectively scout for these types of pushes. | ||
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Techno
1900 Posts
I don't agree with the stim pack nerf. It already took a really long time and for Terrans who aren't planning on going all in, it can be really hard to defend without stim. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On April 05 2011 23:07 Elementsu wrote: This, while i think they are doing a decent job at balancing, they just don`t think about entertainment value of stuff such as the reaper and HT, both of which are a joke ATM You guys really feel that it was not OP to be able to warp in Psi Storm?! I have played some tosses who still use HT, they just get it a bit earlier and keep them in the back for a while. As they say, a warp in HT denied every harass posibility, and every protoss say "well you have to harass to keep the colussus count down". So yeah, feels like a good move. | ||
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zanmat0
188 Posts
On April 06 2011 00:22 aderum wrote: You guys really feel that it was not OP to be able to warp in Psi Storm?! I have played some tosses who still use HT, they just get it a bit earlier and keep them in the back for a while. As they say, a warp in HT denied every harass posibility, and every protoss say "well you have to harass to keep the colussus count down". So yeah, feels like a good move. Those warp in HTs really were the bane of Blue Flame Hellions... | ||
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Westy
England808 Posts
Every other caster in the game has an energy upgrade, except the sentry. Honestly, they should of nerfed the collosus not the HT. The only thing broken about Warp in HT's was the warp in mechanic, which is proving to be a problem in so many different match ups. So instead of addressing the issue at hand they just weaken every protoss unit except collosi. | ||
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ehalf
408 Posts
Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds. Stimpack timing pushes by terran players can be extremely difficult for opponents to stop without employing effective scouting. We wanted these types of pushes to come slightly later in order to provide more time for opponents to prepare for these attacks and to potentially get scouting units together to effectively scout for these types of pushes. This made my day  Just considering: Warpgate upgrade research time increased from XX to XXX seconds. Warpgate timing pushes by Protoss players can be extremely difficult for opponents to stop without employing effective scouting. We wanted these types of pushes to come slightly later in order to provide more time for opponents to prepare for these attacks and to potentially get scouting units together to effectively scout for these types of pushes. Queen injecting time increased from XX to XXX seconds. Queen injecting timing pushes by Zerg players can be extremely difficult for opponents to stop without employing effective scouting. We wanted these types of pushes to come slightly later in order to provide more time for opponents to prepare for these attacks and to potentially get scouting units together to effectively scout for these types of pushes. Is there any scout need to predict terran go stim/ protoss go warpgate/ zerg go injecting? Blizzard love to make balance change for bronze players. | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On April 06 2011 00:14 zanmat0 wrote: Exactly this. I'm highly disappointed in Blizzard. They don't know how to make a fun game anymore, it seems. So Blizzard, how many people have the colossus as their favorite unit? Not very many, better switch the nerfs. =) | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
My accusations are grounded in the fact that he had 1 Hellion against Huk's 3 gate robo push. You're defending him based on speculation that it would have developed into a viable strategy which there is no proof of and seems quite unlikely given the facts. Haha your accusations are based off ONE match, while my opinion is based on the result of all his matches, not that single one. Hilarious. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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bovineblitz
United States314 Posts
On April 05 2011 22:52 TimeSpiral wrote: I find it important, or at least relevant, to note that the BC movement speed buff just put it on par with the Carrier's current movement speed. Do you know why it's a joke that no one builds Carriers? It's because carriers are actually good, but right now Protoss does not need them so they don't build them (with the exception of a tank farm). Right now it seems that the GW Colossus ball wins the majority of games that warpgate rushes/pressures fail to win. The BC buff was basically for TvT in my opinion. You still need air superiority, and four bases, before you can even think about BCs, but at least they are similar in speed to Vikings now. Try using carriers in actual competitive games and then come back and tell me they are good. | ||
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TimeSpiral
United States1010 Posts
On April 06 2011 01:29 bovineblitz wrote: Try using carriers in actual competitive games and then come back and tell me they are good. Your implication may very well be true, but I think the lack of carriers is more a symptom of the metagame than it is the actual efficacy of the Carrier. | ||
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
You have to understand the phrase "standard builds" to relate. A standard build is something you can go for every time and have a larger margin of success than failure. Every other builds you see with protoss outside of late game colossus, are cheesy timing attacks. None of these builds are concrete enough for any protoss player to have long reaching success with them. The game is balanced on standard builds. Builds that when each race comes into battle the victor is uncertain. For protoss it's colossus builds. The reason the builds work so well is because the entire race is designed around winning with colossus. See terran mech doesn't work because thors are slow, pathetically slow and hard to mass produce. This actually means the old BW goliath unit was more cost effective. I believe the goliath is more efficient than both the viking and thor. Because you can mass produce it, moves well with tanks and bio, and does incredible damage with upgrades. That units syncs well with terran mech and bio. Similarly the colossus completes the protoss army, because the race lacks the dps to match other armies the colossus is the main damage dealer. By it's self it's not even that great, this is true for all protoss units.The race just works well together. | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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zanmat0
188 Posts
On April 06 2011 00:56 nkr wrote: Haha your accusations are based off ONE match, while my opinion is based on the result of all his matches, not that single one. Hilarious. And we're talking about that ONE match. Drop it dude, you're losing sight of the original argument. | ||
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bentski
Canada31 Posts
On April 06 2011 01:47 TimeSpiral wrote: Your implication may very well be true, but I think the lack of carriers is more a symptom of the metagame than it is the actual efficacy of the Carrier. No, bovineblitz is right. Carriers suck and not because of the metagame, but because they take forever to get, cost a shitload of money, and die to basically anything that hits air... except maybe hydras. But you know what's better at killing hydras anyway? Collosi! Even with your example of a tank-heavy terran. It's usually much better to just get void rays or even phoenix to gravitron beam the tanks because any marine support whatsoever just destroys the interceptors. BTW - not trying to rip on you TimeSpiral. I just miss the awesome carriers of BW... and I'm tired of people saying "Carriers have the highest DPS in the game, therefore they are awesome." | ||
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Billyray
Canada49 Posts
Vikings landing and taking flight a bit faster would probably partially fix the issue by making it more viable overall (because right now, pretty much the only reason to get them is to negate Colossus). For Zerg, increasing the range of the Corruptors to mitigate stalkers might work, but they are slow, costly, clunky and not built to kill colossus. They were designed as a capitol ship killing unit and since very rarely do you see Broodlords, BCs or, god forbid, carriers, they became the "answer" by default... Bringing back scourges in the next installment might be wise... But I would like to see the archon become an effective unit again. Less boring than the Colossus and might open the HT tech tree again, leading to more diversity. Same thing for the reaper, wich was a fantastic concept for a unit that we never see anymore except as a cheap early scout. | ||
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Gatored
United States679 Posts
On April 06 2011 00:18 ehalf wrote: HT is not widely use just because colossus and forcefield are too strong combined together. HT + forcefield isnt that good. Even if blizzard nerf colossus first people will still not use HT since colossus + forcefield are so easy to use. HT and forcefield not good together? It is extremely effective to lock units into place and have them receive the full effects of a storm. The only reason you don't see this much in games is because it requires a lot of APM to effectively trap the units then storm them. If you can successfully pull it off though, it will do massive damage. | ||
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Aequos
Canada606 Posts
2/2 Stalkers (which cost 125/50) lose to 2/2 roaches (which cost 75/25) in equal numbers. A stimmed marine has about equal dps against unarmoured targets as a stalker, but costs about a quarter of the amount. Zealots cannot catch and kill marauders even with charge due to concussive preventing them from ever reaching melee range. Sentries do almost no dps (which is coincidentally just 1 dps less then stalkers) and cost 50/100. Without them, I can't kill any army with gateway units, as gateway units are slow. Trust me, if we could get by on only gateway units, we would. We don't tech to Colossi because they're so much fun to use. | ||
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