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mufin
United States616 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:45 ceciljacobs wrote: boo hoo your 0 micro-mineral only-tank as fuck-dps machines can't be sitting on an army at all times sounds like you're not making enough marauders... | ||
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ooni
Australia1498 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:39 sleepingdog wrote: This doesn't make sense in the slightest. So I pay 200/200 for an upgrade and the result is, that my opponent can just...run away while taking exactly ZERO damage? Doesn't that sound retarded to you in the slightest? Especially if we compare it to stim+concussive chasing and killing basicly everything that is in range? Ha? What are you on about? So charge is supposed to have an infinte range? Suppose an allied mothership recalled the marauder will the zealot charge at it like Speedbreaker until it is cancelled? Here is a diagram for everyone ![[image loading]](http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5407/hitu.png) | ||
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:39 sleepingdog wrote: This doesn't make sense in the slightest. So I pay 200/200 for an upgrade and the result is, that my opponent can just...run away while taking exactly ZERO damage? Doesn't that sound retarded to you in the slightest? Especially if we compare it to stim+concussive chasing and killing basicly everything that is in range? Remember that the Terran also paid for both the Stim upgrade and the Concussive Shells upgrade. Whether a chargelot makes contact with a stimmed slowing marauder or not, one side is going to "lose out" on paying for those upgrades in at least some way. What happened before 1.3 is that any unit that was in motion and moved with a minimum speed greater than or equal to the Zealot's range slop divided by its initial attack delay would cause the Zealot to charge, stop (and thus removing its charge buff), attempt to attack, then fail due to the unit being beyond the range slop. By increasing a Zealot's range slop, units have to be very fast (it may not even be possible to be fast enough, depending on what they set it to) to outrun the range slop once the zealot has begun its attack. If the Zealot never reaches the target, this change shouldn't apply (shouldn't, as in, I don't believe it was intended to, maybe you believe it should that's more in the realm of personal opinion). I have no opinion one way or the other on whether it should or shouldn't work the way you want it to, I'm just not skilled enough for it to matter. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
Protoss, use your brain and agree on this please. | ||
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Moletrap
United States1297 Posts
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Knutzi
Norway664 Posts
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Zombo Joe
Canada850 Posts
Maybe they fixed that? | ||
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willeesmalls
United States477 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:22 karak567 wrote: Haha the guy you were playing has the same screenname of a certain famous high stakes poker player who I know does play Starcraft 2... How do u know brian townsend plays sc2? | ||
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tenordrummer
Canada36 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:51 Koshi wrote: Protoss, use your brain and agree on this please. i agree... | ||
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:50 urashimakt wrote: Remember that the Terran also paid for both the Stim upgrade and the Concussive Shells upgrade. Whether a chargelot makes contact with a stimmed slowing marauder or not, one side is going to "lose out" on paying for those upgrades in at least some way. Stim + CS is still cheaper than charge. not to mention it only requires a techlab which is also a lot cheaper than a citadel | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
A Charging Zealot will always attack a marauder who is stimming away. A Charging Zealot won't attack a maraduer who is stim kiting with Concussive shells. As far as I know, the latter couldn't be done pre-patch, so if you ahve a large amount of Zealots, then you should be able to get some hits in instead of none :S Still sucks, but as someone said above, if you could do damage without actually reaching the target then you could get awkward scenarios where you could gib units by charging them. Don't know why they just cant make it so Zealots are immune to slow whilst charging, at least that way they could always get ONE hit in before being slowed and kited. But I guess getting one hit against a Marauder every 10seconds is too OP (/sarcasm) | ||
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NguN
Australia1322 Posts
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Genome852
United States979 Posts
On March 23 2011 17:39 sleepingdog wrote: This doesn't make sense in the slightest. So I pay 200/200 for an upgrade and the result is, that my opponent can just...run away while taking exactly ZERO damage? Doesn't that sound retarded to you in the slightest? Especially if we compare it to stim+concussive chasing and killing basicly everything that is in range? 1. Charge zealots will not do "zero damage" unless the army sizes are extremely small. For that to happen, the Terran player will need to have as many marauders as you have zealots, and will have to individually target every zealot with each marauder while stutter stepping. 2. Charge is amazing because it forces the Terran to maneuver his army. Stutter stepping reduces DPS even when done near perfectly. Charge is a form of damage mitigation. 3. Charge zealots force opponents army to be clustered, which means it indirectly increases the effective DPS of colossus / HT storm (similar to ling bling). 4. Protoss has an ability that the race is balanced around, called forcefield. Also, arguing about the costs of upgrades relative to another races is stupid. That's not the way the game is balanced (then again I think the whole idea of "Tier" only applies to zerg and shouldn't even be used for T/P). | ||
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Zealot Lord
Hong Kong747 Posts
But in all seriousness, although I was HOPING it would fare better against kiting marauders, it wouldn't make much sense that they would be able to land a hit if they can't even get within range in the first place (unless they made charge immune to conc. shell, which I wouldn't mind :p). | ||
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urashimakt
United States1591 Posts
On March 23 2011 18:00 Sewi wrote: Stim + CC is still cheaper than charge. not to mention it only requires a techlab which is also a lot cheaper than a citadel That bit was mainly meant for perspective sleepingdog's taking injury to his upgrade being trumped by a unit. The actual bit of my post that should be important to the topic is that second half. On March 23 2011 18:02 Zealot Lord wrote: But in all seriousness, although I was HOPING it would fare better against kiting marauders, it wouldn't make much sense that they would be able to land a hit if they can't even get within range in the first place (unless they made charge immune to conc. shell, which I wouldn't mind :p). This sums up the two sides to the coin developing here very succinctly. One's what we may or may not have wished the patch note to have been, and one's logically why that patch note is sound as it actually is. As a side note, it's actually very possible for Blizzard to make charge suppress the effects of Concussive Shell while charging so a zealot can get a hit off on kiting marauders but still be slowed! I'd agree to that kind of change, but I don't design the game. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
On March 23 2011 18:01 NguN wrote: ....give me Zealot leg speed from BW instead of Charge please =D Speed would be better in generall but not with the implementation of Concussives. Even IF zealots would be able to hit at least once, kiting marauders would still be strong because your zealots would soon be far away from the rest of protoss' army and could be killed easily without support. Zealots are more for tanking damage and giving terrans a need to micro their bio ball while stalkers try to deal damage and sentries try to trap units. Most of the time, all zealots are dead before they reach even trapped marauders. | ||
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Lurk
Germany359 Posts
Sure, you can argue that the same is quite true for the marauder, and i won't deny it. So something should be done about both. And yeah ... On March 23 2011 18:01 NguN wrote: ....give me Zealot leg speed from BW instead of Charge please =D You do know that charge also increases zealot base speed ? | ||
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willeesmalls
United States477 Posts
edit: marauders have to stim. It takes like 17 marauder shots to kill a zealot given equal upgrades. Throw in the fact that marauders overkill, it's worth it for charge just to force stims. | ||
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