EPTKinda weak to say "I KNEW HE WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" when he starts doing well.
Fact is, his play was pretty mediocre/bad in the past, and its only this season that he's actually been playing really well, and his results are simply reflecting that.
San finally getting some respect - Page 5
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Kinda weak to say "I KNEW HE WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" when he starts doing well. Fact is, his play was pretty mediocre/bad in the past, and its only this season that he's actually been playing really well, and his results are simply reflecting that. | ||
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HowSoOnIsNow
Canada480 Posts
On March 11 2011 09:11 Subversion wrote: This thread would have a lot more credibility if you'd made it back when everyone thought he was bad. Kinda weak to say "I KNEW HE WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" when he starts doing well. Fact is, his play was pretty mediocre/bad in the past, and its only this season that he's actually been playing really well, and his results are simply reflecting that. I think that`s the point of it all. San has made some tremendous progress and this thread celebrates that.....im not even a protoss fan, actually, most of them piss me off lol. But still, people needs to give him some props!! | ||
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iGX
Australia414 Posts
the players that i mentioned apart from MC has really choked hard in the past 2 months. even if he loses to MC in the semis, i'll still have respect for the guy and above all, we have at least one protoss in the finals for sure so i'm happy. | ||
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WickedBit
United States343 Posts
On March 11 2011 09:20 HowSoOnIsNow wrote: I think that`s the point of it all. San has made some tremendous progress and this thread celebrates that.....im not even a protoss fan, actually, most of them piss me off lol. But still, people needs to give him some props!! Actually the reason San shows so much progress is because of his playstyle. San is probably the least aggressive toss that I have seen. He seems to be a very defensive player and in all the loses so far he has been taken down in heavy early game aggression which made for some short matches in past GSL. I think he has practiced the maps a lot more than past which prevents howlers like the cannon expansion block and also refined his play enough to survive early aggression. I think the new maps have also helped him out a bit. He also relies a lot on warp in psy storms. We'll have to see what happens when that is no longer possible. | ||
ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On March 11 2011 09:29 WickedBit wrote: Actually the reason San shows so much progress is because of his playstyle. San is probably the least aggressive toss that I have seen. He seems to be a very defensive player and in all the loses so far he has been taken down in heavy early game aggression which made for some short matches in past GSL. I think he has practiced the maps a lot more than past which prevents howlers like the cannon expansion block and also refined his play enough to survive early aggression. I think the new maps have also helped him out a bit. He also relies a lot on warp in psy storms. We'll have to see what happens when that is no longer possible. Agreed 100%. If it wasn't for the upcoming patch I would be pouring over the VODS trying to extrapolate his Templar tech builds since they seem really effective. I would think about transitions myself but the builds lok like they could overwhelm a lesser Terran very very fast; however require quite a bit of control. Personally I would love to replicate this up until a 3rd base then sprinkle in robo units like the collossus since he wont have anti - air which along with all the upgrades would definitely provide for a wonderful and devastating timing attack allowing you to either win or secure a 4th or 5th base. This may still be possible to pull apart his build and move towards a transition after templars get up but i see it as less viable now that they will need to start at 50 energy to begin with. I think the strength of the build is the fact that it allows him to be scrappy. Without the warp in storms san would have lost the games much much earlier. Then again, if sC had microed better he could have also survived a little longer in some of the closer engagements as well. (not to take away the feedback micro San was accomplishing i.e on shakuras with storm fillowed by quick feedback killing a not full energy ghost and hurting some marauders too) | ||
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slipperymess
14 Posts
I hope he does well in future GSLs | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On March 11 2011 09:11 Subversion wrote: This thread would have a lot more credibility if you'd made it back when everyone thought he was bad. Kinda weak to say "I KNEW HE WAS GOOD ALL ALONG!" when he starts doing well. Fact is, his play was pretty mediocre/bad in the past, and its only this season that he's actually been playing really well, and his results are simply reflecting that. As far as the GSL is concerned he has done slightly better (or was it equal) than Idra who is highly regarded. Like I said, people just pick and choose what they want to remember. | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On March 11 2011 09:38 ZeromuS wrote: Agreed 100%. If it wasn't for the upcoming patch I would be pouring over the VODS trying to extrapolate his Templar tech builds since they seem really effective. I would think about transitions myself but the builds lok like they could overwhelm a lesser Terran very very fast; however require quite a bit of control. Personally I would love to replicate this up until a 3rd base then sprinkle in robo units like the collossus since he wont have anti - air which along with all the upgrades would definitely provide for a wonderful and devastating timing attack allowing you to either win or secure a 4th or 5th base. This may still be possible to pull apart his build and move towards a transition after templars get up but i see it as less viable now that they will need to start at 50 energy to begin with. I think the strength of the build is the fact that it allows him to be scrappy. Without the warp in storms san would have lost the games much much earlier. Then again, if sC had microed better he could have also survived a little longer in some of the closer engagements as well. (not to take away the feedback micro San was accomplishing i.e on shakuras with storm fillowed by quick feedback killing a not full energy ghost and hurting some marauders too) Talking about the most recent matches. + Show Spoiler + San's benefited from the new maps, good HT control and actually scouting before 7 minutes. If you go back and look, his scouting kind of sucks. It's the reason MC cheesed him. He had no early game. San has improved a lot and the Meta-game changes played right to him. But let's not confuse what happened in those games against sC. sC drops his Tech rather than Bullrushing his head into storms (which he micro'd okay, but he shouldn't have been attacking) and then San gets steamrolled. Or San rolls out some Void Rays and runs over sC. San had a really good day in Ro32 then a weaker bracket. He's gotten better, but let's not oversell how good he's gotten. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On March 11 2011 10:03 Ownos wrote: As far as the GSL is concerned he has done slightly better (or was it equal) than Idra who is highly regarded. Like I said, people just pick and choose what they want to remember. lol, not true at all. San didn't even qualify for Season 3 dude. | ||
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
On March 10 2011 18:44 Geo.Rion wrote: im personally not impressed with San at all, his accomplishments are undeniable in GSL, but his play doesnt look particulary good or clean I agree with this. He never crushes his opponent like the great players do, he always seems to barely win in a very sloppy game. | ||
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nart
97 Posts
Whatever their thoughts are about today's game, San didn't seem that impressive today even though he won. I think a silver player would have the same thought. | ||
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andyrau
13015 Posts
in game 1 against sC, san opens with DTs, intending to counter the FE that he thought sC was opting for. It's a good response, but while his initial response was well thought out, his followup in utilizing the tech trees he opened with was abysmal. DTs can not only cripple your opponent without detection, but even with static detection it forces a raven and gives you map control if you, as Artosis pointed out several times, place several of them around the map. San fails to do this and loses his expansion and his main. From then on, it was really sC's game to lose but he fails to deal with HT and blink stalker harass effectively and didn't expand/macro quite enough. Even when san sees the ghosts and marauder-heavy ball, he fails to transition out of zealot-HT-stalker and blindly warps in storms whenever he loses the battle. With his resources floating at 2k/1k, he could have easily tech switched into colossus or carriers, still defended his bases, and ended the game much faster. when we look at san's past records in other matches, we see he has a w/l ratio of 11-3 in PvT, and most, if not all, his games he goes into HT and stagnates on this tech tree. san's reliance on khaydarian amulet is evident in all of his games. His PvZ isn't a whole lot better, and his much touted game against Nestea wasn't really impressive. Nestea wasn't really playing to his level against both San and Ensnare that day. Like I mentioned before, his PvP is quite poor to say the least; MC beats him in game mechanics, and even a mediocre (relative to other pros) player InCa was able to finish him off solidly. I understand that people love when an underdog rises up, but his play so far definitely shows his skill is still subpar, and honestly, not really worthy of praise or respect. | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13431 Posts
On March 11 2011 10:35 nart wrote: San's reputation was mostly based on Tastosis' comments, and viewers usually believe in whatever they said. Artosis and Tasteless' predictions were not always right, and anyone familiar with the phrase "I think he's gonna GG soon"?; the result a lot of time turned out to be the opposite. Just because Artosis is a BW veteran doesn't make him more knowledgeable than the average gold or platinum player. Taseless is even worst. Any player that reaches the level of gold or platinum usually understand most of everything Starcraft 2 has to offer. So, don't underestimate your own opinion about the game as well as overestimate Artosis's knowledge. Whatever their thoughts are about today's game, San didn't seem that impressive today even though he won. I think a silver player would have the same thought. I;m going to disagree and say his play was very impressive. Sure it was scrappy but you can say the same for sC the Terran. His ability to feedback those ghosts was very good and he even forced the marauders into his zealots a few times by giving very few escape options to sC from the the storms he dropped. Further the way he completely kept mining from happened at PFs placed on low ground was quite good and the constant DT harass was great as well. In short, sure it was scrappy and back and forth but StarCraft isnt always about a death ball just walking across the map killing everything Iif you think that then yes you are thinking along the same lines as a platinum and its this kind of thought that might just be holding you back since always attacking and multi-tasking is the sign of a good player and not necessarily a 200/200 walk across the map single major engagement | ||
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hitman133
United States1425 Posts
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S.O.L.I.D.
United States792 Posts
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hyunGGe
United States108 Posts
san's play is very solid. good macro. | ||
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Lennon
United Kingdom2275 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
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NeonPeon
93 Posts
The thing I find as bizarre is how quickly tastosis went from "I will swallow a sword" and making fun of him in previous years, to naming anypro the "Darkhorse". The other thing about his play at present, particularly his willingness to break up his army, and his storm warp ins, is that it certainly won't survive the patch. He can still use DT & stalker harass though, and his constant use of DT for map control and harass through the mid and late game is something I think can be emulated. Many suicide DTs for probe kills, but he uses them for much more than that and gets his moneys worth. | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On March 11 2011 10:35 nart wrote: San's reputation was mostly based on Tastosis' comments, and viewers usually believe in whatever they said. Artosis and Tasteless' predictions were not always right, and anyone familiar with the phrase "I think he's gonna GG soon"?; the result a lot of time turned out to be the opposite. Just because Artosis is a BW veteran doesn't make him more knowledgeable than the average gold or platinum player. Taseless is even worst. Any player that reaches the level of gold or platinum usually understand most of everything Starcraft 2 has to offer. So, don't underestimate your own opinion about the game as well as overestimate Artosis's knowledge. Whatever their thoughts are about today's game, San didn't seem that impressive today even though he won. I think a silver player would have the same thought. This is so ignorantly wrong it's heartbreaking.  | ||
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