• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:55
CET 19:55
KST 03:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!20$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage3Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage Practice Partners (Official) [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1556 users

Meeting Dustin Browder - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Deckkie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1595 Posts
March 05 2011 08:35 GMT
#101
I wouldnt like a difference in maps between lower and higher leagues.
To bad if I would be playing fidderent maps then the maps in the tournaments I watch only because im plat.
Always look on the bright side of life
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
March 05 2011 08:39 GMT
#102
On March 05 2011 16:50 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 16:21 brain_ wrote:
Lol @ him loving MKP - that explains so much.



On a more serious note... I wish we still had Goliaths instead of Thors. Its so much easier to balance a unit when you need a bunch to achieve a critical mass, rather than just getting one (which is why you get annoying mass-repair strategies like PvT Thor rush. Its just bad for timings. Ground-based, AoE, long-range anti-air is also a pretty bold leap.

I've always thought of the Thor as Browder's way of injecting a bit of C&C into SC2.

Think about it. Almost all the C&C games include the Mammoth Tank or a close derivative of it (such as the Apocalypse Tank or the Overlord Tank): a high hitpoint, high armor, dual barrel, anti-air missile shooting monstrosity.

The Thor is basically a Mammoth Tank in the world of SC2, which I enjoy considering that I also come from a C&C background. Nothing is more satisfying than massing a huge number of Mammoth Tanks or Thors and rolling over the enemy. Nothing is more tragic than watching your army of Mammoth Tanks or Thors somehow getting owned despite your expectations otherwise.

Also, I've always thought of the Viking as the true successor to the Goliath. In fact, I've always considered the Viking to be a flying Goliath with the anti-air power and range of the original Goliath, only with better mobility since it flies.


Anyways, it's cool to hear Browder's opinions about SC2. Interesting to see him have trouble including the Thor and Mothership into the game due to their questionable unit roles. It seems that because they unveiled the Thor and Mothership as major units early in SC2's development, Blizzard has tried really hard to somehow shoehorn them into the game despite their questionable roles in an e-sports focused game.

I also love how Browder waves around his C&C background proudly. C&C is an excellent series of games (except for C&C4, and to a questionable degree post-Westwood games like Generals and onwards). I still consider Red Alert 2 to be the most fun RTS I've ever played (sorry BW), and it's awesome to see Browder, lead designer of RA2, to still have his groove in SC2.


There's a lot of Tiberian Sun similarities in SC2: Reapers and Jump Jet Troopers, Devil Tanks and Hellions, Cyborgs and Marauders, Titans and Immortals, it's mostly stylistic but most of the non-BW units have a C&C feel.
lofung
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong298 Posts
March 05 2011 08:40 GMT
#103
Making the game to fit an eSport makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns while keeping the game balanced.


am i the only one who lol'd when you read this message? how is it making the game to fit an esports makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns?

did we have no stimpacks for marauders in wings of liberty campaign?

what?

????????
How do you counter 13 carriers? Well first of all you gave me brain cancer. -Tasteless
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
March 05 2011 08:51 GMT
#104
On March 05 2011 14:43 malphigian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 14:05 Newbistic wrote:
This isn't supposed to be a formal interview, right? Some of the questions like the "zerg rush" and the mothership question seem really loaded. I'd prefer more open ended questions if there are future interviews.


I hate to axe grind here but this is so messed up I feel obligated so, again:
The OP is lying, this was not an interview, this is somewhat distorted version of Browder's GDC talk rewritten as an interview for some bizarre reason

If anyone doesn't believe me, I'll post some stills from the talk once the GDC site puts them online. A mod should really edit the first post because this is really weird.

lol, that is hilarious
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19297 Posts
March 05 2011 08:54 GMT
#105
On March 05 2011 17:40 lofung wrote:
Show nested quote +
Making the game to fit an eSport makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns while keeping the game balanced.


am i the only one who lol'd when you read this message? how is it making the game to fit an esports makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns?

did we have no stimpacks for marauders in wings of liberty campaign?

what?

????????



In his presentation he addresses this whole issue. Basically, SC2 has been created for game flow that adheres to eSports game type. This means that the curve of interest in the game is handled differently then in a campaign. Dustin said that when the campaign levels were created that most people ended up turtling in their starting base and building up until they were strong enough to overrun the AI. The natural style of play online prevents people from turtling on one base and expanding outward. The example he gave was in the mission where infesteds attacked during the night. The day/night cycle encourages the player to go out and do raids while recovering from the night. Of course, even in this level, you can turtle and win eventually but the model for that level proved more people were motivated to take chances during the day. To summarize, coming up with ideas to keep the player activity high in missions is a difficult task and is the reason why HoTS is taking so long to be finished since the game was designed for an eSports styled game flow.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
March 05 2011 09:00 GMT
#106
Great read! Thanks for doing this
lofung
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 09:20:14
March 05 2011 09:13 GMT
#107
On March 05 2011 17:54 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 17:40 lofung wrote:
Making the game to fit an eSport makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns while keeping the game balanced.


am i the only one who lol'd when you read this message? how is it making the game to fit an esports makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns?

did we have no stimpacks for marauders in wings of liberty campaign?

what?

????????



In his presentation he addresses this whole issue. Basically, SC2 has been created for game flow that adheres to eSports game type. This means that the curve of interest in the game is handled differently then in a campaign. Dustin said that when the campaign levels were created that most people ended up turtling in their starting base and building up until they were strong enough to overrun the AI. The natural style of play online prevents people from turtling on one base and expanding outward. The example he gave was in the mission where infesteds attacked during the night. The day/night cycle encourages the player to go out and do raids while recovering from the night. Of course, even in this level, you can turtle and win eventually but the model for that level proved more people were motivated to take chances during the day. To summarize, coming up with ideas to keep the player activity high in missions is a difficult task and is the reason why HoTS is taking so long to be finished since the game was designed for an eSports styled game flow.

thank you for your work and clarification. my reply didnt mean to offend (you at least).

but then, it still has nothing to do with e-sports. and turtling is really like the first strategy ever come accross or be figured out by a RTS campaign player. i dunno how is that bad as this is one of the general strategy you would use in RTS games though it might be boring in a few games.

its very much like trying to make a player understand how to play RTS/starcraft in the practise leagues filled with destructible rocks. i dunno know what he is trying to achieve really.
How do you counter 13 carriers? Well first of all you gave me brain cancer. -Tasteless
SpeaKEaSY
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1070 Posts
March 05 2011 09:17 GMT
#108
"Question: Why is the most broken strategy of all time, zerg rush, still in the game?
Browder: Because we want the player to be on their toes from the start. It's important to be engaged from the beginning of the game."

Yeah, then why is the BBS rush gone?
Aim for perfection, settle for mediocrity - KawaiiRice 2014
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 09:44:28
March 05 2011 09:44 GMT
#109
more destructible rocks


The solution to every problem in blizzards opinionen.

OT: Thanks for the interview and I really hope we will get mech AA unit that is a litle bit more mobile then the thor(yes goliii!!!).
[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1387 Posts
March 05 2011 09:53 GMT
#110
nice read!
mada mada dane
FlyingSheeP
Profile Joined March 2011
China45 Posts
March 05 2011 10:32 GMT
#111
Wow nice pic and interview. :D
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa~
EchelonTee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5251 Posts
March 05 2011 10:34 GMT
#112
Thanks OP, don't listen to the hate, you're doing a good thing putting up the interview
aka "neophyte". learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9]
DarkDolphin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States102 Posts
March 07 2011 02:07 GMT
#113
where could i watcha video of "making Starcraft 2 an eSport." did someone record it>???
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
March 07 2011 02:20 GMT
#114
Well, he plays better than I do. Random in Diamond is pretty good.
malphigian
Profile Joined September 2010
United States68 Posts
March 07 2011 02:41 GMT
#115
On March 07 2011 11:07 DarkDolphin wrote:
where could i watcha video of "making Starcraft 2 an eSport." did someone record it>???


You need a GDC pass to watch it.

FYI, major media outlets also covered this talk:
http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/6302329/starcraft-ii-the-making-an-e-sport/?tag=topstory;more
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/04/browder-hints-at-heart-of-the-swarm-updates-emphasises-importance-of-e-sports/
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
March 07 2011 05:08 GMT
#116
The original size of the ultra used to be able to hide 20 lings under it.

I want a custom map for sc2 where all these alpha things are actually implemented; this would be hilarious
I knew right away and hated the idea of the mothership. But the mothership is badass and thought it would be a great unit for non serious gamers to have available.

I'm surprised he would admit hatred toward a unit. Buff mothership acceleration to make it viable in cometitive play plz :D
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
LAN Event
18:00
Day 3: Ursa 2v2, FFA
SteadfastSC269
IndyStarCraft 127
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 509
SteadfastSC 269
UpATreeSC 125
IndyStarCraft 116
ProTech35
MindelVK 35
Codebar 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 442
firebathero 215
BRAT_OK 51
scan(afreeca) 17
Movie 15
ivOry 10
Shine 8
Dota 2
qojqva3037
Dendi1015
Counter-Strike
fl0m842
pashabiceps647
Other Games
FrodaN903
Mlord584
Beastyqt578
ceh9536
Lowko264
ArmadaUGS181
KnowMe168
Mew2King69
QueenE57
Trikslyr42
OptimusSC22
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL149
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 9
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1861
• Ler68
League of Legends
• TFBlade928
Other Games
• imaqtpie894
• WagamamaTV345
• Shiphtur236
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 5m
Replay Cast
4h 5m
OSC
17h 5m
LAN Event
20h 5m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 8h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 15h
LAN Event
1d 20h
IPSL
1d 23h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
2 days
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
3 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.