• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:13
CEST 22:13
KST 05:13
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation5$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced2Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles5[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China9Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL66
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ i aint gon lie to u bruh... [ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall SC uni coach streams logging into betting site
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Summer Games Done Quick 2024!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 568 users

Meeting Dustin Browder - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Deckkie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1595 Posts
March 05 2011 08:35 GMT
#101
I wouldnt like a difference in maps between lower and higher leagues.
To bad if I would be playing fidderent maps then the maps in the tournaments I watch only because im plat.
Always look on the bright side of life
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
March 05 2011 08:39 GMT
#102
On March 05 2011 16:50 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 16:21 brain_ wrote:
Lol @ him loving MKP - that explains so much.



On a more serious note... I wish we still had Goliaths instead of Thors. Its so much easier to balance a unit when you need a bunch to achieve a critical mass, rather than just getting one (which is why you get annoying mass-repair strategies like PvT Thor rush. Its just bad for timings. Ground-based, AoE, long-range anti-air is also a pretty bold leap.

I've always thought of the Thor as Browder's way of injecting a bit of C&C into SC2.

Think about it. Almost all the C&C games include the Mammoth Tank or a close derivative of it (such as the Apocalypse Tank or the Overlord Tank): a high hitpoint, high armor, dual barrel, anti-air missile shooting monstrosity.

The Thor is basically a Mammoth Tank in the world of SC2, which I enjoy considering that I also come from a C&C background. Nothing is more satisfying than massing a huge number of Mammoth Tanks or Thors and rolling over the enemy. Nothing is more tragic than watching your army of Mammoth Tanks or Thors somehow getting owned despite your expectations otherwise.

Also, I've always thought of the Viking as the true successor to the Goliath. In fact, I've always considered the Viking to be a flying Goliath with the anti-air power and range of the original Goliath, only with better mobility since it flies.


Anyways, it's cool to hear Browder's opinions about SC2. Interesting to see him have trouble including the Thor and Mothership into the game due to their questionable unit roles. It seems that because they unveiled the Thor and Mothership as major units early in SC2's development, Blizzard has tried really hard to somehow shoehorn them into the game despite their questionable roles in an e-sports focused game.

I also love how Browder waves around his C&C background proudly. C&C is an excellent series of games (except for C&C4, and to a questionable degree post-Westwood games like Generals and onwards). I still consider Red Alert 2 to be the most fun RTS I've ever played (sorry BW), and it's awesome to see Browder, lead designer of RA2, to still have his groove in SC2.


There's a lot of Tiberian Sun similarities in SC2: Reapers and Jump Jet Troopers, Devil Tanks and Hellions, Cyborgs and Marauders, Titans and Immortals, it's mostly stylistic but most of the non-BW units have a C&C feel.
lofung
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong298 Posts
March 05 2011 08:40 GMT
#103
Making the game to fit an eSport makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns while keeping the game balanced.


am i the only one who lol'd when you read this message? how is it making the game to fit an esports makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns?

did we have no stimpacks for marauders in wings of liberty campaign?

what?

????????
How do you counter 13 carriers? Well first of all you gave me brain cancer. -Tasteless
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
March 05 2011 08:51 GMT
#104
On March 05 2011 14:43 malphigian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 14:05 Newbistic wrote:
This isn't supposed to be a formal interview, right? Some of the questions like the "zerg rush" and the mothership question seem really loaded. I'd prefer more open ended questions if there are future interviews.


I hate to axe grind here but this is so messed up I feel obligated so, again:
The OP is lying, this was not an interview, this is somewhat distorted version of Browder's GDC talk rewritten as an interview for some bizarre reason

If anyone doesn't believe me, I'll post some stills from the talk once the GDC site puts them online. A mod should really edit the first post because this is really weird.

lol, that is hilarious
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19230 Posts
March 05 2011 08:54 GMT
#105
On March 05 2011 17:40 lofung wrote:
Show nested quote +
Making the game to fit an eSport makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns while keeping the game balanced.


am i the only one who lol'd when you read this message? how is it making the game to fit an esports makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns?

did we have no stimpacks for marauders in wings of liberty campaign?

what?

????????



In his presentation he addresses this whole issue. Basically, SC2 has been created for game flow that adheres to eSports game type. This means that the curve of interest in the game is handled differently then in a campaign. Dustin said that when the campaign levels were created that most people ended up turtling in their starting base and building up until they were strong enough to overrun the AI. The natural style of play online prevents people from turtling on one base and expanding outward. The example he gave was in the mission where infesteds attacked during the night. The day/night cycle encourages the player to go out and do raids while recovering from the night. Of course, even in this level, you can turtle and win eventually but the model for that level proved more people were motivated to take chances during the day. To summarize, coming up with ideas to keep the player activity high in missions is a difficult task and is the reason why HoTS is taking so long to be finished since the game was designed for an eSports styled game flow.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
March 05 2011 09:00 GMT
#106
Great read! Thanks for doing this
lofung
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong298 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 09:20:14
March 05 2011 09:13 GMT
#107
On March 05 2011 17:54 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 05 2011 17:40 lofung wrote:
Making the game to fit an eSport makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns while keeping the game balanced.


am i the only one who lol'd when you read this message? how is it making the game to fit an esports makes it difficult to make interesting campaigns?

did we have no stimpacks for marauders in wings of liberty campaign?

what?

????????



In his presentation he addresses this whole issue. Basically, SC2 has been created for game flow that adheres to eSports game type. This means that the curve of interest in the game is handled differently then in a campaign. Dustin said that when the campaign levels were created that most people ended up turtling in their starting base and building up until they were strong enough to overrun the AI. The natural style of play online prevents people from turtling on one base and expanding outward. The example he gave was in the mission where infesteds attacked during the night. The day/night cycle encourages the player to go out and do raids while recovering from the night. Of course, even in this level, you can turtle and win eventually but the model for that level proved more people were motivated to take chances during the day. To summarize, coming up with ideas to keep the player activity high in missions is a difficult task and is the reason why HoTS is taking so long to be finished since the game was designed for an eSports styled game flow.

thank you for your work and clarification. my reply didnt mean to offend (you at least).

but then, it still has nothing to do with e-sports. and turtling is really like the first strategy ever come accross or be figured out by a RTS campaign player. i dunno how is that bad as this is one of the general strategy you would use in RTS games though it might be boring in a few games.

its very much like trying to make a player understand how to play RTS/starcraft in the practise leagues filled with destructible rocks. i dunno know what he is trying to achieve really.
How do you counter 13 carriers? Well first of all you gave me brain cancer. -Tasteless
SpeaKEaSY
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States1070 Posts
March 05 2011 09:17 GMT
#108
"Question: Why is the most broken strategy of all time, zerg rush, still in the game?
Browder: Because we want the player to be on their toes from the start. It's important to be engaged from the beginning of the game."

Yeah, then why is the BBS rush gone?
Aim for perfection, settle for mediocrity - KawaiiRice 2014
Aikin
Profile Joined April 2010
Austria532 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-05 09:44:28
March 05 2011 09:44 GMT
#109
more destructible rocks


The solution to every problem in blizzards opinionen.

OT: Thanks for the interview and I really hope we will get mech AA unit that is a litle bit more mobile then the thor(yes goliii!!!).
[A]dmiral Bulldog | Naniwa | [A]lliance
kAra
Profile Joined September 2004
Germany1359 Posts
March 05 2011 09:53 GMT
#110
nice read!
mada mada dane
FlyingSheeP
Profile Joined March 2011
China45 Posts
March 05 2011 10:32 GMT
#111
Wow nice pic and interview. :D
Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa~
EchelonTee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5245 Posts
March 05 2011 10:34 GMT
#112
Thanks OP, don't listen to the hate, you're doing a good thing putting up the interview
aka "neophyte". learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9]
DarkDolphin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States102 Posts
March 07 2011 02:07 GMT
#113
where could i watcha video of "making Starcraft 2 an eSport." did someone record it>???
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
March 07 2011 02:20 GMT
#114
Well, he plays better than I do. Random in Diamond is pretty good.
malphigian
Profile Joined September 2010
United States68 Posts
March 07 2011 02:41 GMT
#115
On March 07 2011 11:07 DarkDolphin wrote:
where could i watcha video of "making Starcraft 2 an eSport." did someone record it>???


You need a GDC pass to watch it.

FYI, major media outlets also covered this talk:
http://gdc.gamespot.com/story/6302329/starcraft-ii-the-making-an-e-sport/?tag=topstory;more
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/03/04/browder-hints-at-heart-of-the-swarm-updates-emphasises-importance-of-e-sports/
palanq
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States761 Posts
March 07 2011 05:08 GMT
#116
The original size of the ultra used to be able to hide 20 lings under it.

I want a custom map for sc2 where all these alpha things are actually implemented; this would be hilarious
I knew right away and hated the idea of the mothership. But the mothership is badass and thought it would be a great unit for non serious gamers to have available.

I'm surprised he would admit hatred toward a unit. Buff mothership acceleration to make it viable in cometitive play plz :D
time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 47m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason82
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 1210
Bisu 959
EffOrt 635
Soulkey 263
Dewaltoss 151
Aegong 40
Dota 2
Gorgc10479
qojqva2492
League of Legends
Grubby3609
Counter-Strike
oskar564
flusha421
Stewie2K286
sgares107
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0717
AZ_Axe80
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu431
Other Games
gofns23223
FrodaN2085
Beastyqt557
ToD310
KnowMe175
mouzStarbuck165
elazer117
QueenE54
Trikslyr53
Sick35
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick52543
StarCraft 2
angryscii 26
Other Games
BasetradeTV19
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 4
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix3
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2837
• Ler126
League of Legends
• Jankos2533
Other Games
• Scarra2514
• imaqtpie1835
• Shiphtur315
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
3h 47m
The PondCast
13h 47m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
19h 47m
WardiTV European League
19h 47m
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 13h
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
[ Show More ]
FEL
3 days
FEL
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.