• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:59
CEST 21:59
KST 04:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202560RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
What tournaments are world championships? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time The StarCraft 2 GOAT - An in-depth analysis The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 819 users

MLG 2011 map pool announced - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
March 01 2011 20:35 GMT
#301
On March 02 2011 00:44 TT1 wrote:
excellent map pool apart from scrap station, one of the most horrible maps for toss


They have to put it in there so you won't waste your veto on a good map ^^
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 20:57:36
March 01 2011 20:50 GMT
#302
On March 02 2011 04:46 Raiznhell wrote:
What I don't like is how there is NO close positions at all. Like if ramps cannot be blocked anymore then why not keep close positions in it adds an entertaining element to the game I mean i get that Zerg players whine a whole bunch about it but it's not like their win-rate in close positions is less than 40%. It's like people are trying to eliminate cheese altogether and also trying to make the game favor 1 race. People forget cheese is still done SO often in BW and also there are maps where close positions is a factor like Python for example.

Otherwise I do love the maps but rigging them has me feeling uncomfortable.


I'd actually be surprised if it was even 40% close positions.

Either way it's not close entirely that's the problem, it's close on metal/LT/ST that's the issue. On those maps Zerg is pretty much forced into 2 base play given the layout of the map. There's no accessible 3rd when you are in close positions and any 2 base T/P player generally demands a 3rd. With the layout as it is it's very difficult to properly defend a remote 3rd on those maps, especially with drops, hellions, creep, and warp-in mechanics. Likewise the timings on those maps get pretty thrown off close positions just due to how close the maps actually are. You could definitely design maps that work with close positions. Shakuras, if it was longer vertically, could work close positions because it'd still be viable for Zerg to get 3-4 bases even when they spawn close positions. If you look at python you'll see that even spawning close positions doesn't prevent multiple expansions. Players are free to expand along the sides of the maps away from the other players in such a way that doesn't expose a huge vulnerability or a completely new attack route. Basically in Python there's still some general common areas you can position your army to defend your main, natural, and 3rd. In close metal there's no such thing. Your army is either defending the main/nat or defending the 3rd. Metal/LT are also too small/cramped in the middle to be able to hold middle ground to deny attack routes towards a 3rd (though ST is better about this). Zerg can't really hold a mid-map position on these maps to deny attacks on their 3rds.

So EVEN if the winrates are balanced it's still bad because it causes games to be 1-2 base all-ins and busts with little to no chance of progressing beyond that.
Logo
Ownos
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2147 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-01 21:22:45
March 01 2011 21:02 GMT
#303
Very, very awesome as well as eliminating problematic spawn positions and ramp shenanigans. They kept in crap station though...

And Testbug looks really awesome! I like how more mapmakers are taking advantage of the way texturing works and having each side of the map have a different theme.

There was a map in the map forum where it was volcanic at the top, forrest/grass in the middle, and then beach at the bottom. So it was like this Hawaiian island theme overall.
...deeper and deeper into the bowels of El Diablo
Teras
Profile Joined August 2010
Great Britain103 Posts
March 01 2011 22:56 GMT
#304
I think this is a massive step in the right direction by MLG. Hopefully with tournaments like MLG, GSL and ESL using better maps, more macro orientated, more balanced etc it might put a little bit more pressure on Blizzard to fix maps in the pool. Hopefully.
twitch.tv/hasuteras
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
March 02 2011 01:25 GMT
#305
I absolutely love that they listened are being one of the first big tournaments to finally implement good maps (anything better than the current ladder map pool).

What I really don't like, like drewbie succinctly said (lol), is that cross positions may be more favorable for Zerg in ZvT. I agree that some maps were coinflips, but...you gotta remember there were two sides of the coin. Close positions it was ez mode for TvZ, far positions it was ez mode for ZvT...

-_-
Sup
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
March 02 2011 05:43 GMT
#306
On March 02 2011 10:25 avilo wrote:
I absolutely love that they listened are being one of the first big tournaments to finally implement good maps (anything better than the current ladder map pool).

What I really don't like, like drewbie succinctly said (lol), is that cross positions may be more favorable for Zerg in ZvT. I agree that some maps were coinflips, but...you gotta remember there were two sides of the coin. Close positions it was ez mode for TvZ, far positions it was ez mode for ZvT...

-_-


While you have a point, I'd say that the favorable spots for Terran gave a much larger advantage than a favorable spot for Zerg. Close positions would give T a MAJOR advantage, while cross gave Zerg a slight/moderate.
arterian
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1157 Posts
March 02 2011 05:50 GMT
#307
don't like scrap, but glad they kept shakuras despite the fact blizzard ditched it from the pool
http://www.twitch.tv/arterian
kvn4444
Profile Joined September 2010
1510 Posts
March 02 2011 05:54 GMT
#308
good map selection, the changes are also great. I like balancing with maps its already proven to provide better games in gsl.
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
March 02 2011 05:57 GMT
#309
It's going to be interesting to see how some of the cheesier players adapt to the inability to wall off ramps in vZ.
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2404 Posts
March 02 2011 06:05 GMT
#310
On March 02 2011 14:57 JerKy wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how some of the cheesier players adapt to the inability to wall off ramps in vZ.


I agree.

More notably, I think its weird MLG went with building blockers. Instead, why not use a lowered supply depo? Maybe its too big but... the building blocker makes it impossible to ever wall off, while the lowered supply depo would only prevent it as early game cheese.
Mapmaker & TLMC Judge. Amygdala, Frostline, Crimson Court, and Korhal Compound (WoL).
phantaxx
Profile Joined May 2010
United States201 Posts
March 02 2011 06:15 GMT
#311
I'm just worried that the building blockers might mess with the simcity of something like a forge FE, force different building placement than is practiced on ladder.
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
March 02 2011 07:50 GMT
#312
Here are screenshots of how the building blockers work on some of the MLG maps. They don't seem to screw any simcity I'm aware of except for ramp blocking.

Metalopolis:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Shattered temple:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]


Shakuras Plateau:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
[image loading]
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
March 09 2011 04:13 GMT
#313
So i just played Meta from the mlg pool. The fact that u can't spawn close ground positions is retarded. By doing this your taking out certain elements from the game allowing zerg to be as greedy as they want. They don't have any pressure to worry about now. Also, not being able to wall at the bottom of your ramp is also silly. I can understand you guys want to prevent the whole bunker rush/pylon shenanigans but it also takes away from non rush tactics. I would love to know who thought if this idea. --
TL+ Member
rift
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1819 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-09 04:16:25
March 09 2011 04:15 GMT
#314
Now that the 3 gsl maps are going to be in ladder, I wonder if they will change the pool straight away or wait...probably the latter.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
March 09 2011 04:16 GMT
#315
On March 02 2011 14:43 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 10:25 avilo wrote:
I absolutely love that they listened are being one of the first big tournaments to finally implement good maps (anything better than the current ladder map pool).

What I really don't like, like drewbie succinctly said (lol), is that cross positions may be more favorable for Zerg in ZvT. I agree that some maps were coinflips, but...you gotta remember there were two sides of the coin. Close positions it was ez mode for TvZ, far positions it was ez mode for ZvT...

-_-


While you have a point, I'd say that the favorable spots for Terran gave a much larger advantage than a favorable spot for Zerg. Close positions would give T a MAJOR advantage, while cross gave Zerg a slight/moderate.


Actually cross map meta is huge favored for zerg. They can drone up to 45 drones without having to make more than 6 lings rofl. Talk about being economically ahead. Its silly. Even if terran goes 1 rax f/e you are still way behind
TL+ Member
mprs
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2933 Posts
March 09 2011 04:19 GMT
#316
On March 09 2011 13:13 ReachTheSky wrote:
So i just played Meta from the mlg pool. The fact that u can't spawn close ground positions is retarded. By doing this your taking out certain elements from the game allowing zerg to be as greedy as they want. They don't have any pressure to worry about now. Also, not being able to wall at the bottom of your ramp is also silly. I can understand you guys want to prevent the whole bunker rush/pylon shenanigans but it also takes away from non rush tactics. I would love to know who thought if this idea. --


Terran's and Protoss' can still be as aggressive as they want. They just won't have a 100% win with a timing push that Z's can't stop (or if they stop it, they have to sacrifice a huge amount of economy that will be a detriment later on).

There is no way you can say that Zergs don't have to worry about pressure any more. This is the least accurate statement ever. Two base 5-6 gate Protoss pushes and 2 Rax Terran openings still apply a lot of pressure to the Zerg without automatically killing him.
We talkin about PRACTICE
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
March 09 2011 04:20 GMT
#317
On March 02 2011 14:43 FabledIntegral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 02 2011 10:25 avilo wrote:
I absolutely love that they listened are being one of the first big tournaments to finally implement good maps (anything better than the current ladder map pool).

What I really don't like, like drewbie succinctly said (lol), is that cross positions may be more favorable for Zerg in ZvT. I agree that some maps were coinflips, but...you gotta remember there were two sides of the coin. Close positions it was ez mode for TvZ, far positions it was ez mode for ZvT...

-_-


While you have a point, I'd say that the favorable spots for Terran gave a much larger advantage than a favorable spot for Zerg. Close positions would give T a MAJOR advantage, while cross gave Zerg a slight/moderate.



Also, terran advantageous positions make for shitty short games that everybody is sick of.
#1 Kwanro Fan
BrodiaQ
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States892 Posts
March 09 2011 04:27 GMT
#318
On March 09 2011 13:13 ReachTheSky wrote:
So i just played Meta from the mlg pool. The fact that u can't spawn close ground positions is retarded. By doing this your taking out certain elements from the game allowing zerg to be as greedy as they want. They don't have any pressure to worry about now. Also, not being able to wall at the bottom of your ramp is also silly. I can understand you guys want to prevent the whole bunker rush/pylon shenanigans but it also takes away from non rush tactics. I would love to know who thought if this idea. --


Also I think the wall in on the bottom of the ramp was something mlg was trying to "fix". With it zergs would have to send a drone at 7 or 8 to be able to have a chance to scout, which would just be too early and too taxing on the zergs early game economy. And if zergs are gonna be greedy why don't you be greedy back? i expect to see some CC first builds to keep zergs' economies from getting out of hand.
"So come right up and let me squash your creativity with my iron fist of conservative play."--Nony
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
March 09 2011 04:33 GMT
#319
On March 01 2011 08:50 Brutus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 01 2011 08:46 Asha` wrote:
http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-starcraft-2-map-pool/

MLG Metalopolis*
MLG Scrap Station
MLG Shakuras Plateau*
MLG Shattered Temple*
MLG Xel'Naga Caverns*
MLG ICCup Testbug*
MLG GSL Crossfire SE

Key notes are the decisions to prevent close spawns on Meta and Shattered Temple, as well as forcing Shakuras to be cross pos only.

All maps marked with a * will have building blockers at the ramp to prevent the standard bunker/pylon walling in kind of bullshit.

===

A great selection imo, really glad to see them taking steps to rule out some of the more unfavourable spawn locations, and absolutely thrilled to see Testbug in there.

(hope this warranted an actual thread)


This is a huge change which makes the maps exactly 684% more awesome. I have been thinking about that since shakuras plateau, great change imo.


im sure every zerg player agrees. kinda ridiculous to make a map ONLY zerg favored.
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
March 09 2011 04:34 GMT
#320
This is a very nice move by MLG. Prevents a lot of crappy games. Though the only concern I have is that Blizzard still has a really crappy map pool out there for everyone to ladder. CHANGE IT BLIZZARD!
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason149
Nathanias 102
BRAT_OK 48
MindelVK 46
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 1458
Larva 742
TY 183
sas.Sziky 36
Aegong 27
JulyZerg 7
Dota 2
capcasts90
Counter-Strike
fl0m2800
Stewie2K418
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu507
Other Games
tarik_tv5180
Grubby2464
FrodaN2308
Hui .303
oskar173
crisheroes138
Sick58
Trikslyr55
PPMD27
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 23 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• poizon28 27
• StrangeGG 21
• tFFMrPink 10
• LUISG 9
• Adnapsc2 6
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 22
• FirePhoenix5
• HerbMon 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22252
• WagamamaTV951
League of Legends
• Nemesis4612
• Doublelift3190
Other Games
• imaqtpie1115
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
14h 1m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18h 1m
CSO Cup
20h 1m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
22h 1m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 13h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 18h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 22h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.