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On February 26 2011 11:45 Lipski wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 11:42 Dommk wrote:
It did more damage and had a much, much bigger AOE, if you landed two good storms then it was devastating, not to mention DT's and Templars were made from the same building AND units had shitty AI so running out of the Storm wasn't as easy as it is now the problem with storm is not dmg or aoe. the problem is, it's a very decent spell that is effective against majority of terran and/or zerg units, and lategame you can have it instant and anywhere because of amulet + warp-in. this is somewhat op. i feel like changing amulet to give only +20 energy would be much better and cool change.
Yeah, or bring back Templar energy regen, because as it is now, you have to wait 45seconds for a Templar to have enough energy for Storm, and god forbid if Terran gets Ghosts
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On February 26 2011 11:48 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 11:47 FliedLice wrote:On February 26 2011 11:46 101toss wrote:On February 26 2011 11:45 grumpyone wrote:On February 26 2011 11:38 ch33psh33p wrote:
Why are we ignoring the two MEGA NERFS to zerg?
Brood Lord up to 450/350
Overseer at 150/100
WTF? Overseer at 250/100, when you include the cost of the overlord - compared to a cloaked observer at 25/75. raven is 200 gas, much more expensive, but no QQ there You think they should give PDDs and Auto Turrets to Overseers too then? overseers don't cost 200 gas and take 2 seconds to morph
Yeah sure, whatever.
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guys, there is no mention of increased zerg units cost in patch notes. i think this is not intended, so stop crying until it's clarified.
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On February 26 2011 09:56 tsuxiit wrote:
MOD EDIT: Patch notes added.
GENERAL
- Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (Viking flower).
PROTOSS
Mothership
- Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.
High Templar
- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.
Zealot
- Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.
TERRAN
Battlecruiser
- Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.
Bunker
- Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.
Tech Lab
- Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.
ZERG
Infestor
- Health increased from 90 to 110.
Fungal Growth
- Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.
- Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.
- Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast.
My thoughts as a low/mid Master zerg:
At first I was sligihtly upset due to not-so-well-thought-out changes, such as the iffy changes to Fungal Growth and the (!) removal of Khaydarin Amulet. I thought that terran was justly being nerfed slightly, protoss was being nerfed in a bad way, and zerg was being just slightly buffed.
After giving it some thought, I think most changes are justified, and in the end zerg receives the buff part, even if not imbalanced. Why?
The infestor change, I think, will probably be considered a buff later on. Four seconds is still enough to get your units in, and the increased DPS means multiple infestors are now going to be very viable! Fights is all about getting damage done as fast as possible, since that also means less losses for you. In the cases where you didn't have enough infestor energy to fungal again, it might be a loss, but otherwise it's probably a buff. +30% damage to armored units will help for sure against deathballs, a very welcome balance change. OH, and infestors+fungals in mineral lines will probably be veeery feared. Unlike with storms you can be sure your enemy workers won't be able to run. I'm imagining backdooring a protoss's gold expo on Xel'naga with some overlord vision, two infestors and four wellplaced/timed fungals. Will the toss be able to do something in 3-4 seconds? Most probably not. Looking forward on improving my infestor play. Missile seems weird, but should hopefully not make a difference. If people can DODGE fungals it's just imbalanced, but if people can react and maybe change the impact - skill element, balanced, fine.
The Terran changes are two straightup nerfs, and as a zerg I can only like them. Will it destroy things for terrans in general? Might have a huge impact in TvP with the stim nerf. Also, 40 seconds for bunkers does mean offensive bunkers are slightly less effective - just slightly- and that's kinda justified. But does it change too much when it comes to reactionarydefensive bunkers? I am fairly sure it would slightly affect counterpushes from P, T and Z alike. Oh, and the battlecruiser buff - I like it. Maybe consider buffing Broodlord speed too, next? 
As for the Protoss changes, in ZvP I don't see the templar nerf as justified. My guess is that it was a PvT issue, but I still don't like it. To warp in templars you need warpfields, so it's not really imbalanced. I mean, if I let him warp in templars in my base, buaeh. Besides, a caster that HAS to wait to be useful? No, I don't like it. And like others have said, it narrows the techpaths for protoss even more to colossi, which is sad. The zealot chargebuff is actually well needed and is probably gonna make a slight difference. Zealots have so little use in PvZ endgame as it is, but I think the buff is more aimed at PvT. Anyhow, balances toss up a bit. The Mothership nerf seemed sad at first, but it does in a way make sense. Besides, 1.5 seconds is not a long time, and I do think that the "Toilet" will still be effective (unless 1.5 secs is enough for units to spread out 100%).
Finally, the sound notifications are probably gonna affect gameplay in general in Zerg favour. It's probably gonna be the largest "buff" in the patch. Even if "pros don't forget" and "it's always better to know beforehand", it is going to be a well useful reminder, and if people start to improve by hearing the sound occasionally, soon they will get it as a reflex - and better injects make better zergs. It's nothing stange by the way, "dumbing down", well maybe. I liked the timer and the gas display, and they do (in retrospect) add more to gameplay and less to dumbingdown than the haters foresaw. Oh, and alot of ingame things already have sounds effects, Spire popping comes into my head as the first example. I think larva popping makes a sound atm if you are just above it with the camera - but you shouldn't have to rely on idling in your base for that...
Arn ranting on, over and out.
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On February 26 2011 11:50 Lipski wrote:
guys, there is no mention of increased zerg units cost in patch notes. i think this is not intended, so stop crying until it's clarified.
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I dont exactly get why overseers and broodlords needed to cost more....
For an overseer you needed to get a lair and spend 50/100 before you could could either drop a changeling and hope he didnt notice, or just suicide fly it over their buildings, as opposed to permanently cloaked observers, halluncinated phoenix, and scans.
Brood lords i felt were all ready hard enough to get to and costed plently. Now its like morphing corruptors into motherships...
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Blizzard needs to step up their explanation of these patch notes.
Didn't Blizzard use to explain the patch notes for the beta everytime a new one came out?
If Blizzard could just make sense and explain all of their decisions behind ALL these changes, then I think they'd get more understanding from us. But they don't, which isn't fair. And now there's hidden patch notes behind everything too? I don't get it. Why must you be like this Blizzard?!
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On February 26 2011 11:49 Highways wrote:
I like the not displaying losses anymore.
Should encourage more people to ladder, and not be scared of losing.
I'm pretty sure the real reason is they figure people outside of Master league have time to calculate their loss's Total Matchs - Wins
People in Master league are too busy playing to calculate their loss's
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On February 26 2011 11:42 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 11:39 GinDo wrote:On February 26 2011 11:36 justinsroy wrote:
Hi, im justinsroy, and im a race switcher
I really hope they change some of this stuff, HT with no energy upgrade..? Really?
"Hi Jroy!!" Alot of Protoss' are spoiled. In BW they didn't have this Upgrade and storm was still scary. And dont argue damage. Units in BW didn't clump up as much. they did have the upgrade,but instead of giving +25 energy at the start they gave them a faster regen rate.
In BW, the upgrade gave High Templar +50 max energy and +12 starting energy iirc.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/High_Templar
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/High_templar_(StarCraft)
No faster regen.
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wait if the khaydarian amulet upgrade is gone, does that mean that all templar warped in have to gain 25 energy before they can storm? or do they start at 75
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i dont understand the fear of collo.please people can explain me.terran has hard counter to it vikings.and zerg has mid counter corropters.toss need collo to deal with bio and hydra roach army.how will you deal without them ? can you tell me?
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On February 26 2011 11:50 loving it wrote:
Blizzard needs to step up their explanation of these patch notes.
Didn't Blizzard use to explain the patch notes for the beta everytime a new one came out?
If Blizzard could just make sense and explain all of their decisions behind ALL these changes, then I think they'd get more understanding from us. But they don't, which isn't fair. And now there's hidden patch notes behind everything too? I don't get it. Why must you be like this Blizzard?!
Blizzard lacks transparency after merging with activision
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My biggest problem with the Amulet Removal is they dont bother thinking about the ghost upgrade to start with 75 energy so they can EMP our shit but we no longer have our best spell for HT on warp in
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On February 26 2011 11:51 sK.iNsighT wrote:
wait if the khaydarian amulet upgrade is gone, does that mean that all templar warped in have to gain 25 energy before they can storm? or do they start at 75
50 energy, need to build up 25 energy b4 storm
Edit: It would be really broken if HT started with 75 no upgrade lol
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The removal of amulet makes EMP that much more devastating, since you can't replace the emp'ed templars right away, and have to wait for the energy to return.
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Does anyone else have a problem with an endless patch loop?
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Instant Storms are OP lets remove them
Stim is OP lets make it take 30 seconds more to research.
That is balance
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On February 26 2011 11:39 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2011 11:36 justinsroy wrote:
Hi, im justinsroy, and im a race switcher
I really hope they change some of this stuff, HT with no energy upgrade..? Really?
"Hi Jroy!!" Alot of Protoss' are spoiled. In BW they didn't have this Upgrade and storm was still scary. And dont argue damage. Units in BW didn't clump up as much.
I will argue damage. The AoE was much larger in BW and is smaller in SC2 to account for the clumping. The damage did not need to be nerfed.
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The templar nerf imo is ridiculous :/
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On February 26 2011 11:52 Rasky wrote:
Instant Storms are OP lets remove them
Stim is OP lets make it take 30 seconds more to research.
That is balance
Bunker is op make it +10 seconds to build
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EPT
