EPTPatch 1.3 on PTR - Page 119
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:36 Wolf wrote: Bunker build time has affected me immensely. I've been able to even Nexus first on Xel'Naga Caverns with relative ease. I'm not sure if it really makes sense. not really, I haven't heard of bunker rushing a protoss, I thought we just pick up our guns at go at it. If you could elaborate on how it affect you, Going Nexus first is an effect of a cause. I am assuming because terran couldn't bunker contain (?) you due to the patch you can go nexus first? | ||
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red_b
United States1267 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:21 qazqwezxc wrote: I don't get why people want to get the old HT back with 62 and 250 total mana upgrade. That alone is still quite a bit too much since strom in sc2 is nothing like it. Also, warp in units is much faster this time around so it is much faster to bank energy points. Thus, having a BW concept such as this is a not-so-bright one. If they were to change it, it definitely should not involve HT BW concepts. IMO i think this was an awesome change so that now toss doesn't just conjure a 10 food army to eat 60 supply food count of terran bio units. it sounds like your primary concern is winning games and not balancing it so that everyone has a fair shot. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:40 Blasterion wrote: not really, I haven't heard of bunker rushing a protoss, I thought we just pick up our guns at go at it. If you could elaborate on how it affect you, Going Nexus first is an effect of a cause. I am assuming because terran couldn't bunker contain (?) you due to the patch you can go nexus first? Exactly what I mean. I tried going Nexus first, and without a bunker (AND reduced stim time), it's hard to punish. I can stop the bunkers really easily, and the only other way to punish is a well-executed stim timing push. Even that is very fragile at the top level, and with the nerf to stim time, I'm totally safe. At least so far. | ||
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Blasterion
China10272 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:42 red_b wrote: it sounds like your primary concern is winning games and not balancing it so that everyone has a fair shot. I always thought the solutions to sentries templars stalkers etc. even colossus were tanks in the late game. that was until the immortals came. (not really sure why I quoted you >.<) Anyways getting stormed really sucks, but I guess what i am really trying to say is "it's unwise to stay on bio thru out the game" but really I feel that bio is still the strongest T could offer. On February 27 2011 23:45 Wolf wrote: Exactly what I mean. I tried going Nexus first, and without a bunker (AND reduced stim time), it's hard to punish. I can stop the bunkers really easily, and the only other way to punish is a well-executed stim timing push. Even that is very fragile at the top level, and with the nerf to stim time, I'm totally safe. At least so far. I'd love it if the stim change doesn't pass thru. anyways, why would a terran bunker you at all? even w/o stim the essence of the 1st bio push is shells which is unchanged. I am just curious that's all. Maybe I was missing out was bunker rushing toss really popular? | ||
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mads
Canada90 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:45 Wolf wrote: Exactly what I mean. I tried going Nexus first, and without a bunker (AND reduced stim time), it's hard to punish. I can stop the bunkers really easily, and the only other way to punish is a well-executed stim timing push. Even that is very fragile at the top level, and with the nerf to stim time, I'm totally safe. At least so far. I know you're not by your 2000post count, but you sound like a trolling Terran lol | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:45 Wolf wrote: Exactly what I mean. I tried going Nexus first, and without a bunker (AND reduced stim time), it's hard to punish. I can stop the bunkers really easily, and the only other way to punish is a well-executed stim timing push. Even that is very fragile at the top level, and with the nerf to stim time, I'm totally safe. At least so far. Just how do you defend vs marauders with concussive with one reaper? You'll only have like Zealots and probes by that point.... stim or bunker has nothing to do with it. | ||
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Sek-Kuar
Czech Republic593 Posts
I like Nexus first in FFA, but its not really viable in 1v1. | ||
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ilikeLIONZ
Germany427 Posts
On February 27 2011 23:36 Wolf wrote: Bunker build time has affected me immensely. I've been able to even Nexus first on Xel'Naga Caverns with relative ease. I'm not sure if it really makes sense. what about early marauders with conc shells out of 2 rax? that sounds like a troll post to me, even if you're not. | ||
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S.O.L.I.D.
United States792 Posts
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Loljke
Ukraine246 Posts
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Exstasy
United Kingdom393 Posts
So it will now be alot more effective. sigh | ||
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babysimba
10466 Posts
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
On February 28 2011 00:12 ilikeLIONZ wrote: what about early marauders with conc shells out of 2 rax? that sounds like a troll post to me, even if you're not. That's the hardest one to deal with, and the best counter. A lot of people tend to mass up marines and try to rush stim but it won't work. If you micro your marauders right, it's hard for me to hold Nexus first, even if I pull my probes. Obviously XC is not a realistic map to Nexus first on. Jungle Basin, Typhon Peaks, Shakuras Plateau, and non close positions on LT/ST are the best. | ||
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Dominator1370
United States111 Posts
I''m also kind of sad to see Baneling changes go away entirely. A 10 second morph time would probably be too much, especially with ZvZ to consider.Something like 15 or 16 seconds might be better - I can certainly think plenty of instances where 4 seconds on Banelings would have completely changed the outcome of a bio push, especially on some of these smaller maps, and that shouldn't be too much to make Baneling spam ridiculous in ZvZ - but for me, Baneling speed is almost a bigger issue. As we've seen in some rather high profile games lately, Baneling speed (or its absence) is a critical and game-changing upgrade. I'd love to see some experimenting with Zerg having faster/easier Baneling speed. The Infestor change is a huge one for me. I understand that changing Fungal Growth's duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds is a substantial DPS increase, and that under certain circumstances, this results in the Zerg player being able to take less damage from enemy units due to killing them faster. Unfortunately, this doesn't apply very often: it is fairly typical for Zerg to use an Infestor to Fungal Growth part of part of the opponents army, and then pull back. In this case, there is almost no benefit to the increased DPS from Fungal Growth, and the loss of snare time is a huge detriment. Even in the event of a straight up fight, Fungal Growth doesn't do huge damage. It does 36 damage for its 75 energy cost, as compared to 80 damage from Storm or 100 shield damage from EMP for the same cost. I understand there are other factors in play, but without a significant snare effect, Fungal Growth just feels like way too much energy for so little damage. That's a huge problem, since neither Infested Terrans nor Neural Parasite is enough to justify getting Infestors by themselves. Perhaps just as important, a snare duration of 4 makes Infestors a very weak response to drop play. It was really refreshing to see Infestor play gaining popularity in ZvT instead of the usual mass Muta play, but if Infestor play is going to become even more vulnerable to drops than it already is, we're back to the drawing board with Muta balls. It was nice that Zerg could actually engage Terran's army while it lasted. Of course, I can't help but wonder if the Infestor change had something to do with ZvP. Voidray/Colossus deathballs have been a hot topic lately, with Corrupters being decidedly subpar against mass Voidray and Hydras impossible to keep alive against the Voidrays with their Colossus support, and I thought changing the Corrupter from +6 against massive to +4 against armored seemed like a reasonable approach. That's gone, now, and it appears the bonus to armor was moved to Fungal Growth, for some reason unbeknown to me. I have to wonder if a +30% against armor, 8 second snare Fungal Growth was too much, and that is the motivation for the reduction in snare time. I personally would much rather see a 110 health Infestor with an 8 second Fungal Growth that had no bonus to armor, and a Corrupter that had a bonus against armor rather than massive. Maybe there's something I'm missing, though. | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
On February 27 2011 15:27 Drunkasarous wrote: I hope your trolling. This patch basically forces protoss into colossus as their mid/late game. Which can be easily countered by all 3 races. HUH!?? Colossi can be countered, but the cost effectivness of the counter is something to be laughed at. On top of that Colossi/VR is absolutely dominating versus Z. Having a unit that starts w/ 34 splash damage at 9 range (also gets +4 per upgrade) is super rediculous. It might be easy to counter colossi when ur macro sucks but outside of that....... Easily the worst thing this patch does for Toss (in this regard) is limiting there options because of an OP unit stays while a micro intensive unit is nerfed. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On February 28 2011 00:45 ixi.genocide wrote: HUH!?? Colossi can be countered, but the cost effectivness of the counter is something to be laughed at. On top of that Colossi/VR is absolutely dominating versus Z. Having a unit that starts w/ 34 splash damage at 9 range (also gets +4 per upgrade) is super rediculous. It might be easy to counter colossi when ur macro sucks but outside of that....... Easily the worst thing this patch does for Toss (in this regard) is limiting there options because of an OP unit stays while a micro intensive unit is nerfed. It might be easy to counter collsi when your macro sucks....... That makes prefect sense, the less units you have the more powerful they will be better vs a strong unit such as collsi. You guys need to relax about amulet, its not going to go through, Worst case scenario itl end up being a +50 energy buff which will be amazing considering that full energy temps can dish out 3 storms. | ||
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ixi.genocide
United States981 Posts
On February 28 2011 00:50 XXXSmOke wrote: It might be easy to counter collsi when your macro sucks....... That makes prefect sense, the less units you have the more powerful they will be better vs a strong unit such as collsi. You guys need to relax about amulet, its not going to go through, Worst case scenario itl end up being a +50 energy buff which will be amazing considering that full energy temps can dish out 3 storms. obviously I was saying that it would be easy to counter colossi if the protoss players macro is bad, not the zergs. | ||
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