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Before you post, read the title of this thread slowly and out loud. |
I don't think it's possible to cover every single possibility that way. I think it's safe to say that every player that is very very good and tries to make money playing SC2 will be participating in tournaments. I can't imagine someone who is one of the top players in NA not only abstaining from ladder play, but thinking "This tournament won't be worth it to enter, it's only $200.'
If Flash wanted to join the NASL, he'd need to step up and make sure his play is at the level. Likely by participating in the open or other tournaments to get to the place where he's ready to enter. Look at July, he has a Golden Mouse and he started off the GSL by not qualifying, then A-class, and he's finally in their top S-Class now.
I appreciate the point, but I just don't see a way to avoid it. We need to count on players to get themselves out there and prove their worth if they want to play in the big leagues.
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The amount of people spitting bull shit like they're somehow entitled to the tournament they deserve around here is fucking astonishing. I can hardly take it. Legitimate complaints are one thing, but you have to realize that just because you want something doesn't suddenly mean you get it. In the same regard, just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make it right (ESPECIALLY when there is no right/wrong on an actual issue).
I actually wish this thread didn't exist and there was not a single thing uttered about format, prizepool, etc.. Just dead silence until everything was released. There is more misinformation (not necessarily NASL's fault) in most of these posts than actual information. Couple that with the sheer vitriol typed out hidden in the frame of a question and you get this type of a shit storm of terribleness.
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On February 25 2011 08:39 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
The amount of people spitting bull shit like they're somehow entitled to the tournament they deserve around here is fucking astonishing. I can hardly take it. Legitimate complaints are one thing, but you have to realize that just because you want something doesn't suddenly mean you get it. In the same regard, just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make it right (ESPECIALLY when there is no right/wrong on an actual issue).
I actually wish this thread didn't exist and there was not a single thing uttered about format, prizepool, etc.. Just dead silence until everything was released. There is more misinformation (not necessarily NASL's fault) in most of these posts than actual information. Couple that with the sheer vitriol typed out hidden in the frame of a question and you get this type of a shit storm of terribleness.
You do realize that people are giving hard-criticism because they are passionate and care and want this thing to succeed? If this fails, this could set North America back big time in terms of getting E-Sports out there plain and simple.
I'm going to assume the other people posting here don't feel "entitled", they just really care about this tournament and want it to succeed without any hitches.
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I think everyone's concern is stemming from having wanted a pro SC scene in North America for so long, now that perfect dream they had of what it would be like is changing to match how reality works.
[sarcasm]
And, as denizens of the internets the best way to deal that is to get angry and type out words where you're physically safe from repercussion.
[/sarcasm]
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On February 25 2011 08:38 tsularesque wrote:
I don't think it's possible to cover every single possibility that way. I think it's safe to say that every player that is very very good and tries to make money playing SC2 will be participating in tournaments. I can't imagine someone who is one of the top players in NA not only abstaining from ladder play, but thinking "This tournament won't be worth it to enter, it's only $200.'
If Flash wanted to join the NASL, he'd need to step up and make sure his play is at the level. Likely by participating in the open or other tournaments to get to the place where he's ready to enter. Look at July, he has a Golden Mouse and he started off the GSL by not qualifying, then A-class, and he's finally in their top S-Class now.
I appreciate the point, but I just don't see a way to avoid it. We need to count on players to get themselves out there and prove their worth if they want to play in the big leagues.
I totally agree with you on the actual fairness of this, but do you really think that if NASL get an application from Flash they'd turn him down?
Also, really, I don't think it's that clear who the top 50 players are. I bet if you took 5 people (active fans or pros) and each had them make a list, you'd end up with at least 100 people on someone's list. Which tournament wins are more important? Which are flukes? How far back do you look when considering tournament finishes? Is being a really good team evidence of your skill even if you have almost no tournament results? Should we push for more zergs because their race is harder? How do we compare ladder rankings with tournament results? Is the NA ladder easier than the EU ladder? The list of questions is very long, and I don't think people agree on the answers, and all that stuff changes drastically who you would rank where on your list.
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On February 25 2011 08:21 paksam wrote:
This is a common notion in all who defend NASL, because they are doing something good for the community should we just look away if the organizers' have an interior motive?(this sounds farfetchd' but if they would just change or address the rules accordingly then my whole argument gets thrown out the window). I feel like everyone is responding with the fact that they think I and people like myself don't want esports to grow ( which is not true at all). I feel like the NASL's intentions should be thoroughly questioned especially when dealing with a lot of money. I don't know about you but I dream that the NASL will exist but I do not wish it to be as corrupt as it seems (only due to their rules/explanations [or lack there of]). Please try and look at it in that POV and maybe you will see a few of their qualification rules seem unreasonable (without explanation from NASL).
What do you think their intentions are? They want to put on a good show and make money. It's that simple.
I don't really understand where people like you think they see all this corruption. In the player selections? It's an invitational league right now, what do you want from them? Do you go into TSL topics lambasting them for inviting all the Liquid players not named TLO? Are you critical of the ROOT gaming invitationals for not putting on open qualifiers? At the end of the day, though the scope is bigger here, this is still a bunch of guys trying to put together the best tournament they can. Sure some of the organizers are involved with some top teams, but to assume there will be any manner of "corruption" due to this is just silly.
Now not everyone may like all of their rules, and maybe not everyone is happy that they don't have every last tiny detail of information available to them, but might I remind you all that this was only officially announced on MONDAY? It's gonna take some time for every single thing to be clear, and at the end of the day they will make some decisions that you might not have. That's totally okay. There's a pretty good chance they're putting more thought to this than you have anyways.
I think a lot of people need to stop getting so worked up and take a wait and see approach. Asking questions and making suggestions is all quite fine, but getting all up in arms and telling these guys they're doing everything wrong is not.
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Osaka27118 Posts
On February 25 2011 08:08 RocketBOy wrote:
I really don't care about the politics or in fighting that seems to be going on now. Incontrol is funny because he tells it like it is , and this is fresh and good for e sports . What isn't funny is ppl not realizing that this is a silly argument that is only gonna help to destroy the dream so many of you have of successful North American Starcraft 2 league.
You might want to consider that there is a large majority of the world that could care less about sc2 players and only barely know the game exists. So the point is you already have a huge challenge ahead of you to deal with in the first place, so why make it harder?
In the United States Starcraft2 and its players are not looked at in a very favourable light to begin with , with the public at large , but then again e sports really isn't either. Imagine for a moment someone who bought the game or got it for Christmas and they hear about this website and see this incontrol guy then go to this site and see all this hoopla going on. What do you think there gonna think , more than likely wow look at these nerds arguing over some silly petty things no one cares about . Hate to it break it to you but unless you love this game and play it die hard this is how there gonna feel . Don't shoot yourself in the foot and screw up your dream over small petty things. That's dumb !
INcontrol brings a fun feel to the game and i can't help but laugh at his truthfulness , so the guy isn't perfect , so what who is .
There's the positive ...now just like InControl I tell it like it is ..
The streams problems are forgive able but whats not is this
1.The player interviews looked like they were shot in someones trailer.
2.Artosis is wearing a hooded sweat shirt , if he ever wants to be taken seriously as a professional e sports commentator then he needs to dress the part. The general public would have tuned in and thought they were watching some high school kids making some poor documentary .
3.The whole show the presentation reminded me of very bad local late night wrestling program.
These are all things that can be fixed , but must be fixed or this is to the general public not gonna ever look like more than a college or even high school level produced show at best .
I know what I'm talking about I worked at HBO and WTBS and understand and know how to produce and direct quality television.
If we had been looking at this on just its production value it would have ended up in our network trash can.
I think you make some good points that they should consider, but you can't expect them to be HBO right away. For example, if you look at the TSL 1 vs the TSL 2, there is a big difference in our production values. That came with experience. It is one thing to watch others do it and another to do it yourself.
That being said, perhaps the GosuCoaching Team League should have been used a bit more as a practice vehicle for NASL in order to improve. When you hype yourself as the best, you have to bring it too, which seems to be the undercurrent of this thread.
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On February 25 2011 08:47 aristarchus wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 08:38 tsularesque wrote:
I don't think it's possible to cover every single possibility that way. I think it's safe to say that every player that is very very good and tries to make money playing SC2 will be participating in tournaments. I can't imagine someone who is one of the top players in NA not only abstaining from ladder play, but thinking "This tournament won't be worth it to enter, it's only $200.'
If Flash wanted to join the NASL, he'd need to step up and make sure his play is at the level. Likely by participating in the open or other tournaments to get to the place where he's ready to enter. Look at July, he has a Golden Mouse and he started off the GSL by not qualifying, then A-class, and he's finally in their top S-Class now.
I appreciate the point, but I just don't see a way to avoid it. We need to count on players to get themselves out there and prove their worth if they want to play in the big leagues. I totally agree with you on the actual fairness of this, but do you really think that if NASL get an application from Flash they'd turn him down? Also, really, I don't think it's that clear who the top 50 players are. I bet if you took 5 people (active fans or pros) and each had them make a list, you'd end up with at least 100 people on someone's list. Which tournament wins are more important? Which are flukes? How far back do you look when considering tournament finishes? Is being a really good team evidence of your skill even if you have almost no tournament results? Should we push for more zergs because their race is harder? How do we compare ladder rankings with tournament results? Is the NA ladder easier than the EU ladder? The list of questions is very long, and I don't think people agree on the answers, and all that stuff changes drastically who you would rank where on your list.
I agree with you on all of this. It's extremely complicated and hard to figure out.
At this point, however, I'm familiarizing myself with what details we have and thinking more about how they could work, instead of what I'd prefer. I'm excited for this all to pan out, and I'm hoping the NASL team can take a night and complete a full and complete FAQ or set of the worked-out plan right now.
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On February 25 2011 08:45 NoNa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 08:39 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
The amount of people spitting bull shit like they're somehow entitled to the tournament they deserve around here is fucking astonishing. I can hardly take it. Legitimate complaints are one thing, but you have to realize that just because you want something doesn't suddenly mean you get it. In the same regard, just because you have an opinion on something doesn't make it right (ESPECIALLY when there is no right/wrong on an actual issue).
I actually wish this thread didn't exist and there was not a single thing uttered about format, prizepool, etc.. Just dead silence until everything was released. There is more misinformation (not necessarily NASL's fault) in most of these posts than actual information. Couple that with the sheer vitriol typed out hidden in the frame of a question and you get this type of a shit storm of terribleness. You do realize that people are giving hard-criticism because they are passionate and care and want this thing to succeed? If this fails, this could set North America back big time in terms of getting E-Sports out there plain and simple. I'm going to assume the other people posting here don't feel "entitled", they just really care about this tournament and want it to succeed without any hitches.
People misplace their passion. You should be looking to help the NASL, not merely attack them. In the same regard, you should attempt to understand WHY they make choices, not just take them from your single, solitary perspective and attack them because it's different than what you expected or what you'd do.
I'll use the invite process as an example (ignoring the team regard, since that's a different discussion). Is having a gigantic, open tournament the most fair way? Yes, it provides an equal chance to anybody, thus it is fair by default. As a good player, but not great, that would b the method people would want to get in. However, if you ask what is best for viewership and the league? Invites, easily. There is a large player base, many of which are very popular, that should qualify, but if they failed somehow then the fans would only be disappointed.
Note, neither one is right and neither one is wrong because they address different questions, not the same one.
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On February 25 2011 08:49 Phayt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 08:21 paksam wrote:
This is a common notion in all who defend NASL, because they are doing something good for the community should we just look away if the organizers' have an interior motive?(this sounds farfetchd' but if they would just change or address the rules accordingly then my whole argument gets thrown out the window). I feel like everyone is responding with the fact that they think I and people like myself don't want esports to grow ( which is not true at all). I feel like the NASL's intentions should be thoroughly questioned especially when dealing with a lot of money. I don't know about you but I dream that the NASL will exist but I do not wish it to be as corrupt as it seems (only due to their rules/explanations [or lack there of]). Please try and look at it in that POV and maybe you will see a few of their qualification rules seem unreasonable (without explanation from NASL). What do you think their intentions are? They want to put on a good show and make money. It's that simple. I don't really understand where people like you think they see all this corruption. In the player selections? It's an invitational league right now, what do you want from them? Do you go into TSL topics lambasting them for inviting all the Liquid players not named TLO? Are you critical of the ROOT gaming invitationals for not putting on open qualifiers? At the end of the day, though the scope is bigger here, this is still a bunch of guys trying to put together the best tournament they can. Sure some of the organizers are involved with some top teams, but to assume there will be any manner of "corruption" due to this is just silly. Now not everyone may like all of their rules, and maybe not everyone is happy that they don't have every last tiny detail of information available to them, but might I remind you all that this was only officially announced on MONDAY? It's gonna take some time for every single thing to be clear, and at the end of the day they will make some decisions that you might not have. That's totally okay. There's a pretty good chance they're putting more thought to this than you have anyways. I think a lot of people need to stop getting so worked up and take a wait and see approach. Asking questions and making suggestions is all quite fine, but getting all up in arms and telling these guys they're doing everything wrong is not.
For what it's worth, TL did take some flack for inviting all their own players. To the point where Artosis had a lengthy defense of including Haypro during his cast of a later finals. And they took criticism for including Loner for the sake of including the Chinese community even though there were better people available. And mostly, I think, they are given a pass because 1) they did their best to make qualifiers objective where they could (outside Asia) and 2) it's a TL-sponsored tournament and everyone sort of expects a bit of TL bias. Most big tournaments are invitationals now because they just aren't run by big enough organizations to make open qualifiers realistic, and I think everyone accepts that as an unfortunate necessity. But I don't think most people are naive enough to think that team affiliation, friendships, popularity with fans, and other factors outside of playing skill don't play a big part in who gets invited. I think most people see those as shortcomings. And I think most people would want something trying to be the premier championship to be more professional than that.
(And as you say, part of their intention is to put on a good show, which they seem to interpret as picking players based on personality, etc. I for one would find a purely fair and objective tournament to be much more compelling entertainment.)
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Can't wait for NASL anyway. However it goes. =)
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On February 25 2011 05:26 DeckOneBell wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 05:20 cheesemaster wrote:On February 25 2011 04:49 ShadowLegacy wrote:
Question:
When Gretorp or yourself are playing who will be the fill in casters ? If gretorp is accepted as a player in the tournament i will defenetly not take this tournament seriously, he is a sub par player at best who hasnt really even been in any tournaments that i can think of (or placed well at least) since the last MLG. What IS your standard for a good player then? Because since this tournament is almost certain to include more NA players than any other region, there will likely be worse players than Gretorp included. I don't like the team invite system, but your assertion is ridiculous.
Well its the top 50 players on teams by the NASL's standards its hard to say since we dont know what those standards are. The way i said it was a bit harsh but at the same time i could honestly list 50 players who would easily be more suitable if you wanted me to, i mean if we are including korea europe and NA its really not that hard, i could name 50 players in korea or europe alone who would be more suitable im pretty sure (maybe not quite europe but defenetly korea).
Even if included a list of 50 players i would probably miss some notable ones that people would bring up or remind me about, but i dont think one of them would be gretorp.
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Obviously we shall see how it pans out but to me it seems that not being live will a disadvantage. It probably won't have the same thrill of watching a live match. The main stated reason why is "If we were to do the show completely live, we would have to cut a lot of our transitional effects which give us the "wow" factor." Well when I watch Starcraft 2 I'm not too concerned about "wow" factor. As a similar situation I will bring up the FAQ section on NASL.tv as an example. Instead of just listing the questions and answers on a single screen you have to click on each question then wait a second for the letters to zip around a bit so you can read them. In this situation the format is sacrificing usability for razzle dazzle.
Anyhoo, should be interesting to see how it all turns out, and at least it will make it more accessible for players in other time zones.
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On February 25 2011 08:50 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 08:08 RocketBOy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I really don't care about the politics or in fighting that seems to be going on now. Incontrol is funny because he tells it like it is , and this is fresh and good for e sports . What isn't funny is ppl not realizing that this is a silly argument that is only gonna help to destroy the dream so many of you have of successful North American Starcraft 2 league.
You might want to consider that there is a large majority of the world that could care less about sc2 players and only barely know the game exists. So the point is you already have a huge challenge ahead of you to deal with in the first place, so why make it harder?
In the United States Starcraft2 and its players are not looked at in a very favourable light to begin with , with the public at large , but then again e sports really isn't either. Imagine for a moment someone who bought the game or got it for Christmas and they hear about this website and see this incontrol guy then go to this site and see all this hoopla going on. What do you think there gonna think , more than likely wow look at these nerds arguing over some silly petty things no one cares about . Hate to it break it to you but unless you love this game and play it die hard this is how there gonna feel . Don't shoot yourself in the foot and screw up your dream over small petty things. That's dumb !
INcontrol brings a fun feel to the game and i can't help but laugh at his truthfulness , so the guy isn't perfect , so what who is .
There's the positive ...now just like InControl I tell it like it is ..
The streams problems are forgive able but whats not is this
1.The player interviews looked like they were shot in someones trailer.
2.Artosis is wearing a hooded sweat shirt , if he ever wants to be taken seriously as a professional e sports commentator then he needs to dress the part. The general public would have tuned in and thought they were watching some high school kids making some poor documentary .
3.The whole show the presentation reminded me of very bad local late night wrestling program.
These are all things that can be fixed , but must be fixed or this is to the general public not gonna ever look like more than a college or even high school level produced show at best .
I know what I'm talking about I worked at HBO and WTBS and understand and know how to produce and direct quality television.
If we had been looking at this on just its production value it would have ended up in our network trash can. I think you make some good points that they should consider, but you can't expect them to be HBO right away. For example, if you look at the TSL 1 vs the TSL 2, there is a big difference in our production values. That came with experience. It is one thing to watch others do it and another to do it yourself. That being said, perhaps the GosuCoaching Team League should have been used a bit more as a practice vehicle for NASL in order to improve. When you hype yourself as the best, you have to bring it too, which seems to be the undercurrent of this thread.
I think Manifesto hit the nail on the head. This whole thing was hyped as if it will be the best thing to ever hit E-Sports. It could very well be, however the production value that went into that showmatch has people feeling doubtful. These restrictions that they are placing on players are causing doubt amongst a lot of us too. This is not about feeling entitled this all comes down to wanting this to succeed, and badly.
I myself want this to work out, and if it is handled remotely similarly to that show match it will be a catastrophic failure. We were promised the best thing in E-Sports history, and it was hyped to the edge of reason. And this could very well be what we want precisely and it could be wildly successful, but please do not mistake criticism for disdain. People are critical because they are concerned about the success of this league.
I myself, like many others think that deliberately excluding players will be an unwise decision, there is no adequate justification for causing division amongst a team (don't tell me this rule won't). NASL is obviously there to make money (good thing btw) and if it is focused on making money it needs to think about the target audience. People want what they want and a fabulous way to get money from these people is to give them what they want. So what if we want Liquid to be able to field their entire lineup? Isn't part of being the best league in the world having the best players in the world? Cutting people out would only make it less prestigious.
NASL's first couple of seasons will be rocky, but I imagine if it gets up to speed we will all be pleased. It's no mystery to me why Day[9] and others are hesitant to throw their lot in with NASL, no one wants their name attached to what could be the Titanic of E-Sports. And just as much as it could be the Titanic it could be Saturn 5 of its generation.
To recap, people are upset because they were promised the best and to them it doesn't look like the hype has lived up to it. Most of us are also perturbed by the thought of this failing. So yes, everyone is jumping on Incontrol and the rest of them, to make this endeavor is a success.
I will still NASL regardless of all the above factors, provided it is not as bad as the showmatch (the games were fine, Jinro/IdrA fighting).
My primary issue shall be explained through the following example.
Take a look at the SCReddit Invitational, that little tournament is the highest quality tournament I have beheld in the foreign world (comparatively to its budget and infrastructure). And that whole tournament is appearing to be vastly superior to NASL's present image. Now, if NASL turns out to be a super high quality production I will be pleased. I imagine it will be better than that show match. However, my point is, if Reddit and their comparatively tiny budget can put together a better show, that is discouraging. Now, I'm not deaf to the difficulty of setting up a show match from Korea. And I freely admit that could excuse the quality of this production.
However, don't make promises you cannot keep, I was promised a live show match and was given a low quality, low res, bad audio pre-recorded cast of replays. If I had been promised the latter, I would have been happy. Don't make yourself out to be the best and not deliver. Case in point.
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On February 25 2011 06:04 ghostsquall wrote:
Basically, my point is this. I was hyped for NASL. I really was. It seemed like one of the greatest things to happen to Starcraft. But the more I hear about it, the less interest I have. They're trying to get this to be like a real sport? So people will take it seriously? Nobody. Ever. Will. We are nerds. People that aren't nerds DO NOT like starcraft. It's sad to say, but it's true. I don't feel like you guys are doing this to fuel the movement of esports in the west. I feel like you're doing it to secure a few extra bucks in your pocket and to secure your "spot"(which you all feel entitled to for some reason) as a pro-gamer. The whole "hey guys help us make esports big if you dont want nasl to be big obviously you're a bad person just be happy who cares if we're charging $30, who cares if qualifiers aren't open for everyone, blahblahblah"
that seems to be the general consensus of the critical people in this forum the more details that come out the less intrested they are. When i first heard about the NASL i was so happy and with the huge prize pool it seemed like they really could make a GSL quality tournament. With each detail i got a bit more distraught and dissaponted i just didnt understand why there wasnt qualifiers , the team rules etc. etc. i think alot of people feel this way ive seen quite a few people in this thread go "YAY NASL" then read a bit more and go "wait a sec its like this??" If they are doing a 1000 man open anyways i dont see why they couldnt just change it to a qualifier style tournament. But as you said the elitism of certain teams is shining through and it shows
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What was the rationale behind setting the player per team cap at 5? I like that there is a cap because it will encourage competition and reduce collision. However Im worried that setting the cap at 5 will hurt SC2 teams if this league becomes as successful as everyone hopes it will be.
Becuse it seems to me that an ideal SC2 team should have at least 6 players, at least 2 per race so the team can practice every matchup (more if random players are included). Less than 6 means that some matchups cant be practiced within the team. However if a team gets more than five, some players won't be able to participate. It seems like a sixth player would be dead weight because there's no system for alternates or team benches.
I'm worried that this rule will become the NASL's "extended series" issue.
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On February 25 2011 09:23 Incursus wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I think Manifesto hit the nail on the head. This whole thing was hyped as if it will be the best thing to ever hit E-Sports. It could very well be, however the production value that went into that showmatch has people feeling doubtful. These restrictions that they are placing on players are causing doubt amongst a lot of us too. This is not about feeling entitled this all comes down to wanting this to succeed, and badly.
I myself want this to work out, and if it is handled remotely similarly to that show match it will be a catastrophic failure. We were promised the best thing in E-Sports history, and it was hyped to the edge of reason. And this could very well be what we want precisely and it could be wildly successful, but please do not mistake criticism for disdain. People are critical because they are concerned about the success of this league.
I myself, like many others think that deliberately excluding players will be an unwise decision, there is no adequate justification for causing division amongst a team (don't tell me this rule won't). NASL is obviously there to make money (good thing btw) and if it is focused on making money it needs to think about the target audience. People want what they want and a fabulous way to get money from these people is to give them what they want. So what if we want Liquid to be able to field their entire lineup? Isn't part of being the best league in the world having the best players in the world? Cutting people out would only make it less prestigious.
NASL's first couple of seasons will be rocky, but I imagine if it gets up to speed we will all be pleased. It's no mystery to me why Day[9] and others are hesitant to throw their lot in with NASL, no one wants their name attached to what could be the Titanic of E-Sports. And just as much as it could be the Titanic it could be Saturn 5 of its generation.
To recap, people are upset because they were promised the best and to them it doesn't look like the hype has lived up to it. Most of us are also perturbed by the thought of this failing. So yes, everyone is jumping on Incontrol and the rest of them, to make this endeavor is a success.
I will still NASL regardless of all the above factors, provided it is not as bad as the showmatch (the games were fine, Jinro/IdrA fighting).
My primary issue shall be explained through the following example.
Take a look at the SCReddit Invitational, that little tournament is the highest quality tournament I have beheld in the foreign world (comparatively to its budget and infrastructure). And that whole tournament is appearing to be vastly superior to NASL's present image. Now, if NASL turns out to be a super high quality production I will be pleased. I imagine it will be better than that show match. However, my point is, if Reddit and their comparatively tiny budget can put together a better show, that is discouraging. Now, I'm not deaf to the difficulty of setting up a show match from Korea. And I freely admit that could excuse the quality of this production.
However, don't make promises you cannot keep, I was promised a live show match and was given a low quality, low res, bad audio pre-recorded cast of replays. If I had been promised the latter, I would have been happy. Don't make yourself out to be the best and not deliver. Case in point.
So many paragraphs with nothing to say. Over and over and over. You just ranted away quite and literally said nothing other than that you're essentially worried for a reason you admit is likely to be proven wrong. Fantastic. Further, as Incontrol himself pointed out, all of the hyping was everybody else hyping. Incontrol mentioned it like 4 times, that's it.
I'm pretty sure many of you are more interested in complaining about the NASL than you are about watching it, and it has nothing to do with the format. You've been on this forum and every post (almost) has been simply pushing YOUR OWN agenda about what YOU think is wrong and why YOU take issue with it. Most aren't able to acknowledge why they might be doing this instead of merely harping on the point that you don't like it. Guess what? I don't like stopping at red lights when I don't see anybody around, but I still understand why I should (obviously this analogy isn't about the NASL, but instead simply ideas you don't like).
Take a step back, remove yourself emotionally from the conversation and simply understand why things they way they are. You can continue to disagree, but no amount of being pissed off and angry that it's not designed exactly the way you want it to be will suddenly make it perfect for you (not the keyword again, you).
One thing I'm going to specifically mention again and pray gets read... The GSL and NASL are more alike than most of you want to admit, hell, even to the BW leagues. Those weren't open tournaments, you had to be a progamer already. The GSL instead of doing invites, already has their core players lined up because of their previous tournaments. If they wanted to be fair, wouldn't they themselves just hold open qualifiers again? Think of all of the other tournaments outside of korea as the NASL's qualifiers. There have been a wealth of tournaments in EU/NA for a chance for people to make their mark.
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People are excited and somewhat nervous about how NASL will turn out. This is where all the criticism and "flaming" is coming from, well at least most of it.
As some posters have mentioned, I really disliked the analogy between NBA and NASL, unless NASL turns out to be 2v2s or 3v3s or the NBA had 1v1s that I didn't know about. I think it would be better if Xeris or Russell chooses another sport to compare to.
Also, It would have been lame if GSL didn't allow Foxer, Leenock and many others to participate because they didn't have a team and they were deemed as a "risk" cause they didn't turn on their alarms.
I'm sure more information will be released in the next following weeks so all the questions raised about qualifiers, teams, sponsors, caster etc. will be answered.
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On February 25 2011 07:17 adeezy wrote:
You know I wouldn't mind if they made the tournament style the exact mirror of gsl 1-3. It gave a lot of drama to who did or didn't make the qualifiers. Then the tournament 64 man bracket should be random drawn. This tournament should definitely be open. Considering you guys are already getting criticized about professionalism you don't want to be also criticized favoritism which will inevitably be the case if you guys self pick the invitees. What's your guys plan to stray away from possible accusations when invites come
Agreed no matter what they are going to receive some Flak for the players they invite, especially if EG and FNatic automatically get 5 seats each (wich i assume they will) from EG i can agree they deserve 5 seats, Fnatic not so much maybe 1 or 2 based on their current roster. They really should just make it like gsl 1-3 players with the most points at the end end up in the tournament and the bottom 15 from season 4 onwards play the top people fromm the open for their spots , this would be fair and i guarantee you wouldnt hear complaints about it, how many threads are there complaining about the gsl format. Probably none.
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On February 25 2011 09:30 kNightLite wrote:
What was the rationale behind setting the player per team cap at 5? I like that there is a cap because it will encourage competition and reduce collision. However Im worried that setting the cap at 5 will hurt SC2 teams if this league becomes as successful as everyone hopes it will be.
They decided to have 5 divisions, and they didn't want to players from the same team to face eachother to avoid collusion
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EPT
