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60 bronze league 1v1 mistakes

Forum Index > SC2 General
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nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 05:56:28
February 08 2011 05:47 GMT
#1
This painful list I gleaned from watching my replays. it is a bit terran focused.

1. not continuously making drones/scvs
2. waiting too long to expand (don't wait till your main is tapping out)
3. not spreading creep. At all.
4. getting badly supply blocked more than once in a game
5. queuing more than 2 units for building
6. Expanding then not anticipating the extra income and being caught short on production, then letting short term priorities still occupy your attention and not fixing it.
7. Rallying to a unit
8. Rallying via a long and unsafe path
9. Not having ONE army (unless you have a plan that needs it split)
10. Leaving 4 digit minerals / gas sitting in your current account
11. Having very unbalanced mineral/gas consumption/production (take some guys off gas if you have too much!)
12. (this is a huge one) not producing while moving your army forward for an engagement
13. Having no clue what the enemy is doing, or where his army is, or how many bases he is on
14. Ignoring xel-naga watch towers totally
15. Not retreating when the opposing army turns out to be too big
16. (opposite of 15) Not pressing on against a retreating army
17. Failing to realize when the other guy loses his army, he has nothing left and is probably only just starting production (see 12, see 16)
18. Hanging on for too long when you should gg (floating buildings off into corners and other cute but useless stuff)
19. Not recovering bunkers no longer needed, cancelling command centers being built & under attack
20. Walking along the bottom of (enemy) cliffs (esp with no air)
21. Having no plan or defense for cloaked enemy attack
22. Attacking with insufficient ability to atk air
23. Sending in your rushed single trophy unit (colossi, bc), with little to no support
24. Doing a ling rush to a blocked ramp and not retreating
25. Not getting an orbital command asap
26. Forget to scan when being attacked by cloaked units
27. Not having all your buildings in a control group, all your command centers in a control group
28. Not setting idle SCVs on auto repair near turrets or bunkers
29. (as T) army camping out in the wilderness and not building a couple of bunkers and putting a turret down
30. Not recognizing a harass as a harass (over-reacting)
31. Not lifting up your building when surrounded by ground force harass
32. Not understanding cliffs and visibility (in offense)
33. Letting tanks (or colossi) be in the front
34. Leaving tanks that can siege up, sit un-sieged
35. Going to three bases without the ability to defend an attack on one
36. Starting work on an expo without any static or moving defense
37. (as T) flying a command center to an island without first loading it with SCVs
38. Not checking you have 3 on gas especially after a fight at the mineral line
39. Using orbital energy to increase supply or do scans that could be scouted by a unit
40. Trying the same smooth move more than once
41. (as T) Switching cloak on and off, turning it on uses a lot of energy!
42. Having no clue how to use ghosts, ravens, and other odd units
43. When attacking, not being patient and attacking a less established expansion first
44. Forgetting to do tech upgrades
45. When flush with minerals forgetting you can build two research buildings and parallel research
46. (as T) Not getting stim, or getting it and not using it
47. When flush with minerals, not building out future supply
48. Screwing up your hot key groups, and not fixing it
49. Wasting time just watching the outcome of a battle (time passes really quickly!)
50. Wasting time watching a harass (a drop or whatever)
51. When in the enemy base, having no clear idea what buildings/pylons to kill as a priority (shooting at everything)
52. When attacking in confined area not moving your army up a bit more than they default - to give more units a chance to shoot.
53. Not decisively switching production when you get a best look at their composition and find they are one note
54. Not realizing rally points can have more than one leg to them
55. Not knowing how to queue commands to route and unload a drop of marines (doing it all manually)
56. Not being able to queue move and siege a tank
57. Rarely if ever making units follow other units
58. (as P) putting down too many photon canons
59. (as Z) operating out of one base for most of the first 20 minutes
60. (as T) going marine heavy against P in the late game (see 42)
61. (as T) not being aware that there is a P observer over your army, or base, or both

edit: and a free one, maybe the biggest
62. rarely looking at the mini map and not clicking in it

an after thought:
63. Rallying to your battle point, producing while moving, and forgetting you have a blocked ramp (coming home in tatters to see all the units that couldn't get out). Doh!
Ryusei-R1
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States2106 Posts
February 08 2011 05:49 GMT
#2
that's 61, not 60
Jaedong plz
Brad
Profile Joined April 2010
2754 Posts
February 08 2011 05:50 GMT
#3
I like it.
Lee Jae Dong proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the StarCraft game strategy.
Lucid90
Profile Joined September 2008
Canada340 Posts
February 08 2011 05:51 GMT
#4
Woa
that's a shit ton of shit right there. Way too much stuff to worry about. If I were you I'd just focus on 1 or 2 little things and forget about the rest. This is because if you get too worried about all these small things you will never get any of them done and you'll be frustrater because it's too hard to manage. Just pick one or 2 things you want to work on, like "hey lets scout more at this time!" or "hey lets keep the queen spits always on!" and you should start getting better. And once you internalize those few small things, they will become second nature and you can start focusing on other things to fix.
My sc2 account: http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1296221/LuciD
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
February 08 2011 05:52 GMT
#5
just to be clear, these are the mistakes I see my esteemed opponents make, and the ones I have learned tripped me up

I'm working on all of them, and surely making a ton more advanced mistakes !
Deleted User 47542
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1484 Posts
February 08 2011 05:55 GMT
#6
Only thing a bronze player has to focus on is build peons nonstop, and keep their money under 500. Every other skill will slowly develop while focusing on that.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44047 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 05:57:33
February 08 2011 05:57 GMT
#7
I would say that a lot of these mistakes are found even at the gold or platinum level of play, but awesome and very useful list!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
February 08 2011 05:57 GMT
#8
Not saying i agree with all of them.. but this will get you up a few leagues. Of course, i hope, people who are in bronze aren't morons at RTS but rather the fail in practice what they know in theory.
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
Ludwigvan
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany2371 Posts
February 08 2011 05:57 GMT
#9
63. Not playing SC2 all day.
Insouciant
Profile Joined July 2010
United States47 Posts
February 08 2011 06:04 GMT
#10
rallying to a unit.... i do that so often and its been so helpful sometimes that i typically leave it.

ex: robo bays to colossus. I keep my colossus safe so if they die then that means i just got stomped. might as well have the game drop my new colossus off at home instead of throwing them into the fray where i can lose them lol...



truthfully: its a habit i want to break eventually but i don't feel like its a huuuuugeeee deal
You're about as useful as a one-legged man in an arse kicking contest.
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 08 2011 06:05 GMT
#11
1-10 are the best, but it's a great and fairly comprehensive list of fail :DD
KillerPlague
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1386 Posts
February 08 2011 06:08 GMT
#12
great list! i'm sure a lot of silver and gold leaguers make at least some of these mistakes as well. i know as a masters player i have trouble spreading creep, utilizing hotkeys, and constantly checking the mini map.
Side 1: Why no dominant players with 90% win ratio Side 2: Nerf Side 1
greycubed
Profile Joined May 2010
United States615 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 06:12:58
February 08 2011 06:12 GMT
#13
You can rally to a unit just fine so long as the unit is the second waypoint. If the unit dies they'll just rally to the first waypoint.
http://i.imgur.com/N3ujB.png
skeldark
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2223 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 06:18:55
February 08 2011 06:18 GMT
#14
Save gaming: kill esport
runforyourllife
Profile Joined September 2010
United States73 Posts
February 08 2011 06:20 GMT
#15
i must say that as a master league terran, i am guilty of some of these mistakes :D
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
February 08 2011 06:21 GMT
#16
On February 08 2011 15:12 greycubed wrote:
You can rally to a unit just fine so long as the unit is the second waypoint. If the unit dies they'll just rally to the first waypoint.


I didn't know that, and that is a nice tip.. kind of best of both worlds. Rally to a retreat position then shift rally to a key army unit.
iSini
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
13 Posts
February 08 2011 06:27 GMT
#17
So....to be pro, you have to do all of these......-Shit-
You just ruined my dreams ;-;
Yokoblue
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada594 Posts
February 08 2011 06:33 GMT
#18
+1 I like that... Good list... a bit too many worries but still.. .a good list
Master League playing Protoss and Zerg
Guruite
Profile Joined January 2011
United States19 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 06:36:59
February 08 2011 06:34 GMT
#19
I'm with runforyourlife.. I'm masters toss but I often find myself wasting time watching a battle (not a ton of time usually.. but 5-7 seconds of just sitting there doing somewhat pointless micro (after ff are down just seeing how the rest of the army is fairing for a bit before continuing macro).

I'd stick to say 3-10 mistakes that bronze players do. Something like: Not constantly producing workers, Getting supply blocked, and not having a clear build order. Scouting is important, but at bronze league it's actually kinda useless besides giving positional information. If people knew what to look for they would probably know a build order they are doing and a build order their opponent is doing, and then know how to alter it to help deal with their opponent's. This knowldege would probably automatically bump them into silver.

Edit: I love the intention of this list, but some things are orders of magnitude higher than others - failing to make workers and getting supply blocked is SO much more important than being able to shift setup a tank or attacking with your collosi a bit ahead of your army.
QuestSeekers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States39 Posts
February 08 2011 06:46 GMT
#20
a list this long is ironic, since a bronze player's main problem is multi-tasking. Tell me the one thing a bronze player needs to do differently to be 'better'.

My Vote,
"Spend your money"
strategy is distinct from tactics; tactics is concerned with the conduct of an engagement, while strategy is concerned with how different engagements are linked.
iokke
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1179 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 06:47:58
February 08 2011 06:47 GMT
#21
awesome list,
imho doing this post should help you progress a lot.
Also, while in diamond, there are still a few things i can relate to from your list:D
Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie the f*** down. rerereredit.. I never get it right the 1st time
schimmetje
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1104 Posts
February 08 2011 06:47 GMT
#22
I think I've died to all of those in the past lol, nice list. Which I would suggest is the best way to look at these, they're sort of.. experience things? Not so much a checklist to go down but more issues to recognize and avoid running into again in future games. You can argue about the order of importance (though I kind of like this one) and overlap, but that's because it's all connected!! *makes wild gestures at his blackboard*
Change to MY nostalgia? UNACCEPTABLE! Monkey paaaw!
Phenny
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1435 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 06:51:41
February 08 2011 06:51 GMT
#23
Good list, a lot of them are "sub bronze" though, like even average bronzors would recognise them as extremely poor, still it's a good list for lower league players to think about and keep a check on.
TERRANLOL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States626 Posts
February 08 2011 07:04 GMT
#24
Yeah you're focused on a bit too much to improve at the minute. Constantly build SCVs, expand regularly and spend all your money
Focus on those 3 now.
Tyler214365
Profile Joined December 2010
51 Posts
February 08 2011 07:08 GMT
#25
Another major thing is devoting the majority of their time and attention to a cutesy tactic like a drop or blink micro when they are much better off 1-Aing and going back to base to focus on macro. Often they will try something like multi drop harass while their money gets to 3000/2000 and wonder why they just get steamrolled even though they are using such clever tactics.

Yet another thing is never even thinking of attacking, ever until they have a maxed army.

A good thing for new players (i did this in the beginning and it really helped) to avoid the first of these problems is to never look at the battles. just tell the army to attack via the minimap and keep macroing at your base. it really gets you in the mindset of what your top priority is and in bronze you'd be amazed how easy it is to win doing this. 100% of your attention should be focused on improving your macro in bronze and you will be promoted in no time.
Durantula
Profile Joined July 2010
United States108 Posts
February 08 2011 07:11 GMT
#26
I'd say a big one is not using hotkeys well
schimmetje
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands1104 Posts
February 08 2011 07:13 GMT
#27
Two more:

- Not using stuff you make (units as zergbuddies, probably more important in regards to buildings for T and P though still true to some extent for units as well)
- Not scouting the bloody hidden expansion damn it to hell (not that I'm frustrated or anything)
Change to MY nostalgia? UNACCEPTABLE! Monkey paaaw!
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
February 08 2011 07:25 GMT
#28
I agree with the repeated comments about macro

one of the reasons people hear it and still ignore it is macro is a tad boring and we play to have fun. Macro isn't having as much fun as watching a fight.

It is simple to say: pay attention to your macro, don't stop making drones, and you will win up to gold league, but actually it isn't so easy for us bronze players. Maybe diamond forgets what it was like?

You respond to a push or a harass, or need to dig in around an expo, and your macro slips. You're trying not to queue up worker production, which is the other advice, so you need to be striking that production key every 15 seconds or whatever no matter what else is going on.

I think in bronze it is ok to queue even 4 worker production after you are past 20 supply simply because it is better to have minerals sitting in a queue than to gap out on worker production. Bronze players don't run perfect sub 100 mineral balances once past 8 minutes, so having 150 sitting per worker queue isn't a huge issue vs constant random production gaps. 4 queued tanks or gas heavy units, yeah, that is a problem.

the other thing I find hard to do is watch replays where I lose. When I lose I want to forget about it, but perhaps the right thing is to take a deep breath and watch the losing replay instead of gloating over the winning one.
Leahbjackson
Profile Joined November 2010
United States107 Posts
February 08 2011 07:26 GMT
#29
I'd say these are good tips for everyone. I'm in Silver league and a lot of these apply to both me and my Silver/Gold league opponents as well. Thanks for the list
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 07:48:53
February 08 2011 07:43 GMT
#30
Pretty good list. A couple still happen to me every game in Masters... So don't feel obliged to be able to play without making a single mistake.

I am still believing that problems like:

1) Underestimating massing t1 units, you need many small units not a couple big ones. Even late game you need to keep producing marines/marauder, zealots/stalker, zergling( or roach) just because they do a lot of damage.
2) Make 40 scv's and stop. But make them as fast as possible. I know this is very contested advice but the problem with bronze players is that they are "limited". Let them make 40 scv's spread over 2 bases and they will have enough income. If they can spend that divided over the perfect amount of production facilities they have a BIG shot of going out of bronze.
3) Defend cheese without hurting your economy too much, or learn to defend it while starting with an economy build.
4) Right-click attacking with a big army in to a SINGLE unit in the enemy army. Maybe even a big unit in the back.

These 4 are in my eyes the biggest problems of bronze.
I am pretty sure that they are THE problems of bronze.
I had a good night of sleep.
Rampager
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia1007 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 08:05:33
February 08 2011 08:03 GMT
#31
Great list, I'm a mid masters (2600) Zerg and I actually suffer from some of these problems as well. Anyone who claims they suffer from none of these probably never check their own replays.

All we can do is steadily work through them

Just to clarify: About 50% of your list applies to people from Bronze to Mid-Masters (can't comment on higher than I am )
shindigs
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4795 Posts
February 08 2011 08:11 GMT
#32
On February 08 2011 14:55 superbabosheki wrote:
Only thing a bronze player has to focus on is build peons nonstop, and keep their money under 500. Every other skill will slowly develop while focusing on that.


This sums up the easiest way to get better. Having too many worries will just screw up how fast you improve. Keep it simple and you should be fine.
Photographer@shindags || twitch.tv/shindigs
Existential
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia2107 Posts
February 08 2011 08:11 GMT
#33
Nice list. Although is applied to more than just the Bronze League.
Jaedong <3 | BW - The first game I ever loved
3loodMoon
Profile Joined February 2011
Thailand13 Posts
February 08 2011 08:13 GMT
#34
+1 to the list, but wouldn't say it apples to only bronze.
AmericanUmlaut
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2576 Posts
February 08 2011 08:15 GMT
#35
I'm a pretty high-ranked (1st or 2nd in my division) platinum Protoss, and quite a few of these are good points for the level of play I'm at, as well.

I'd put special emphasis on getting supply blocked. I still get supply blocked a couple times a game on average, and I attribute the fact that I haven't broken out of the platinum league entirely to that fact. I think people seriously underestimate how horrible supply blocks are: watch your replays at 4x or 8x and just watch the resource counter. If you get supply blocked and your opponent doesn't, you can watch a 10 food advantage shrink to an even game. That's like coming out on the losing side of a skirmish.
The frumious Bandersnatch
statez
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia101 Posts
February 08 2011 08:17 GMT
#36
lol i think the difference between bronze and plat is basically expand.
ST Bomber
EchoZ
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Japan5041 Posts
February 08 2011 08:22 GMT
#37
This isn't really targeted to bronze only, even pro players make some of these mistakes too! Nice list though, provides a helpful reminder.
Dear Sixsmith...
-_-Quails
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia796 Posts
February 08 2011 09:27 GMT
#38
On February 08 2011 16:25 nyc863 wrote:
I agree with the repeated comments about macro

one of the reasons people hear it and still ignore it is macro is a tad boring and we play to have fun. Macro isn't having as much fun as watching a fight.

It is simple to say: pay attention to your macro, don't stop making drones, and you will win up to gold league, but actually it isn't so easy for us bronze players. Maybe diamond forgets what it was like?

You respond to a push or a harass, or need to dig in around an expo, and your macro slips. You're trying not to queue up worker production, which is the other advice, so you need to be striking that production key every 15 seconds or whatever no matter what else is going on.

I think in bronze it is ok to queue even 4 worker production after you are past 20 supply simply because it is better to have minerals sitting in a queue than to gap out on worker production. Bronze players don't run perfect sub 100 mineral balances once past 8 minutes, so having 150 sitting per worker queue isn't a huge issue vs constant random production gaps. 4 queued tanks or gas heavy units, yeah, that is a problem.


20 supply seems very early to be queueing units of any kind to me. If you have 150 minerals to spare at that point it should be because you're just about to build something, even in bronze.

Mistakes I have made/make in bronze league:
Not knowing the difference between move and attack move (for ~200, most of which I somehow won)
Not using control groups, and not realising that mbs is possible.
Not increasing your production capacity when you expand, or when you're maxed.
Not scouting after the start of the game.
Not using warpgates.
Not spreading creep.
Making more than 90 workers while not being harassed.
Not transitioning quickly enough.
Not attacking.
Getting supply blocked (especially as zerg after 80 food) and overreacting.
"I post only when my brain works." - Reaper9
Deckkie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 09:31:24
February 08 2011 09:30 GMT
#39
maybe:
- Not reacting on a apponents armor comp.
- Always 1A, no micro
- Terran: not reparing bunker/turret when needed.
- Zerg: screwing up larva inject
- Zerg: making to many drones (no army)
- Zerg: making to many units: (20 drones 10 min in game)
- Protoss: Stalker syndrom

Biggest problem I had in the bronze leage:
preparing for a rush and then not being rushed but not attack myself and being out teched
Always look on the bright side of life
Armsved
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark642 Posts
February 08 2011 09:31 GMT
#40
LMAO #26

YOOO
sh4w
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States713 Posts
February 08 2011 09:35 GMT
#41
Very helpful and thought out list! Thanks for this!
I want to go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird is all I've got. That and my sweet style.
Azn_Christian
Profile Joined September 2010
United States153 Posts
February 08 2011 10:02 GMT
#42
64. Overestimating what enemy has or underestimating what you have. It was on a day[9] XP
and these would help so much in team games if everyone did them XD
Life appears to me too short to be spent in nursing animosity or registering wrongs." - Charlotte Bronte, Jane Eyre
Morale
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1010 Posts
February 08 2011 10:11 GMT
#43
Nice list! Usefull for non bronze leaguers aswell:D
chokke
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway228 Posts
February 08 2011 10:15 GMT
#44
Considering us bronzers/silvers, these are core issues that comes from lack of confidence in keys and focus. Like clickign 5 [cc] and z [scan, grid] when your units getting crushed by cloaked units.
For me, beeing pretty low myself, these issues isn't something I should focus on since my core is lacking pretty good and starting to focus on the army, then injecting, then making, then expanding, then thinking of rally poitns, then checking if I am holding towers, checking minimap, spreading creep, checking composition of enemy etc etc etc is way to much when I am struggling to make drones and spraying larva once a minute [40 sec for ideal].

But sure, if I managed all these 60, I'd be in master
The_Piper42
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States426 Posts
February 08 2011 10:24 GMT
#45
Great list. I also like the comments that say to produce workers nonstop and keep money low. If you can find ways to do those two things your play will improve immensely!
Boxer, White-Ra, Grubby, Flash fighting!
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
February 08 2011 10:28 GMT
#46
On February 08 2011 16:08 Tyler214365 wrote:
Another major thing is devoting the majority of their time and attention to a cutesy tactic like a drop or blink micro when they are much better off 1-Aing and going back to base to focus on macro. Often they will try something like multi drop harass while their money gets to 3000/2000 and wonder why they just get steamrolled even though they are using such clever tactics.

Yet another thing is never even thinking of attacking, ever until they have a maxed army.

A good thing for new players (i did this in the beginning and it really helped) to avoid the first of these problems is to never look at the battles. just tell the army to attack via the minimap and keep macroing at your base. it really gets you in the mindset of what your top priority is and in bronze you'd be amazed how easy it is to win doing this. 100% of your attention should be focused on improving your macro in bronze and you will be promoted in no time.


You just described me playing SC1 for 5 years.

I've grown up a lot in SC2 and can manage my harassment by flashing back to it at key points- but LOL man.

This list also had me rolling. Thanks for the chuckles man.
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
nanoscorp
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1237 Posts
February 08 2011 10:33 GMT
#47
Good list! It is a good sign that you can recognize errors like these. Correcting things like this will improve your game. However, I think that in order to set yourself on a steady path to diamond+, you should focus on more general concepts. Much like forgetting macro when you're trying to execute perfect stutter-step micro, attributing losses to specific tactical errors can leave you overwhelmed when you try to correct them in subsequent games. I watched Day9 coaching DJWheat for a while and loved his suggestions about multitasking and keeping money low. Constantly checking/preparing for your next move will pay dividends forever.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
February 08 2011 11:18 GMT
#48
90% of these mistakes matter for masters but they really don't matter for anyone under diamond at all.
snpnx
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany454 Posts
February 08 2011 11:25 GMT
#49
Haven't read through the whole list, but all things I read have been right on, it's a good list for starters to look after
"Language is Freeware, in that it's free to use, but it's not Open Source, so you can't just change things how you like."
Fir3fly
Profile Joined May 2009
Australia251 Posts
February 08 2011 11:39 GMT
#50
wow, this is really good, thanks.

Fir3fly
Profile Joined May 2009
Australia251 Posts
February 08 2011 11:40 GMT
#51
On February 08 2011 20:18 Bommes wrote:
90% of these mistakes matter for masters but they really don't matter for anyone under diamond at all.


and thats exactly why they're under diamond

(soz for double post)
SirHyoon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia46 Posts
February 08 2011 11:45 GMT
#52
make sure you have vision of your backdoor rocks? just sayin
sleepingdog
Profile Joined August 2008
Austria6145 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 11:50:12
February 08 2011 11:49 GMT
#53
23. Sending in your rushed single trophy unit (colossi, bc), with little to no support


Ok, now this one you even see professional gamers do...welcome to PvT 2 gate robo expo colossus-tech

Maybe change the title and try to get up to 100?
"You see....YOU SEE..." © 2010 Sen
Drunken.Jedi
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany446 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 11:51:05
February 08 2011 11:50 GMT
#54
While everything on this list is quite sensible, I think it's very bad advice for bronze level players. If you're new to the game, you absolutely should try to focus on the very basics and just learn to properly execute one simple build order. By giving bronze players more than 60 things to look out for, you've made sure that they try to do way too many things at once and never learn how to do any one thing properly.
Here's a much better and much shorter list:
1. Not having a solid build order
2. Clicking icons instead of using hotkeys
3. Not hotkeying your units and production buildings
4. Getting supply blocked
5. Not constantly producing units and workers
Manimal_pro
Profile Joined June 2010
Romania991 Posts
February 08 2011 12:12 GMT
#55
64. making lists of most common 1 v 1 mistakes

seriously these things come only through practice, you are almost always going to forget something if you are not practicing enough
If you like brood war, please go play brood war and stop whining about SC2
chokke
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway228 Posts
February 08 2011 12:35 GMT
#56
On February 08 2011 20:50 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
Here's a much better and much shorter list:
1. Not having a solid build order
2. Clicking icons instead of using hotkeys
3. Not hotkeying your units and production buildings
4. Getting supply blocked
5. Not constantly producing units and workers

For a bronze/silver, a solid build order will not work. It's ok to have an overall strategy, but forcing to much on the buildorder removes the thought behind the action and why it's like that. On my level, it's not the build order that wins or loses a game, it's the lack of mechanics and stuff.
I also think you should include:
6. Watching battles.

By watching your battle, you lose all focus and go back to the attitude when spectating a game/watching a tournament and letting things flow on it's own.
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
February 08 2011 13:45 GMT
#57
I agree totally with not needing a worked out build order. If you follow a script, then you are making assumptions about the opponent. No bronze has 3+ different build orders memorized depending on what they see at the opponents base. If they have just one they stick to, then it is a weakness not a strength.

ok the only build order that might be worth practice is the most "normal" one: for T, after the obligatory "gl hf", then supply and barracks, send out scv, block ramp, get orbital, gas, factory and starport smoothly..
LazerApe
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden206 Posts
February 08 2011 13:58 GMT
#58
i dont think those mistakes are exclusive to bronze, but to most people below diamond and masters =P
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
February 08 2011 14:08 GMT
#59
I have two friends in Bronze who I'm trying to get better at the game...honestly I don't know what to tell them. Right now I'm just observing them playing vs the AI and shouting at them over a headset.

'Ok expand. Expand. Please expand. Come on dude expo. Take a probe. Press b, n, click in your natural. Fucking...do it. You're not doing anything else. I can see your APM, it's 0. Just press the buttons. Why is this taking so long? Seriously dude what the fuck are you doing, wanking?'
btlyger
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States470 Posts
February 08 2011 14:19 GMT
#60
I find a few of there tips hilarious because I see so many diamond and sometimes even masters players not doing them. Still a decent read though, but what people said about the length is true, new players need a few things to focus on when view get started not a list of 60
"Minerals being mined. Minerals being mined. Minerals being mined." Learn how to post: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 14:29:20
February 08 2011 14:23 GMT
#61
On February 08 2011 20:40 Fir3fly wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2011 20:18 Bommes wrote:
90% of these mistakes matter for masters but they really don't matter for anyone under diamond at all.


and thats exactly why they're under diamond

(soz for double post)


Hmm, I can see your point there, maybe the majority on this list is just too natural for me, but the point I wanted to make is that at 2,5-2,7k masters you don't see the stuff on this list executed properly. 90% is some neat stuff that the majority does not do even on a decent level, sure they know it's good to do it (or some on the list is just common sense, as I said, maybe it's too natural for me), but they didn't get into masters because of it. They got into masters because they can spend their minerals (at least as long as their 4-gate doesn't fail ), they have good mouse control, good reflexes and a solid plan for every matchup.

This list is pretty dangerous for lower level players to convince themselves that they lose because they don't do the stuff on it, which is wrong. They should get the cool information they maybe didn't know before out of it, because there is nothing wrong in the list itself. But the majority of it is not the reason why they are in bronze, only their controls and execution of the core basics are the reasons for that. Doing stuff like a lot of Shift-Move-Commands etc. will just waste too much time if your controls are bad and you will therefore macro bad and do other mistakes.

But I got another point:

Using move-command instead of attack-command.

edit:
Everyone who is in bronze and really, REALLY wants to improve I would suggest some kind of multitasking trainer maps, in the beta they have been around for quite a while and I really liked them and your mechanics improve really fast using them, they got a lot of different difficulties and everything. Just improve your controls.
Hell, I should train more on these They were really good.
Azuremen
Profile Joined May 2010
United States71 Posts
February 08 2011 14:29 GMT
#62
On February 08 2011 22:45 nyc863 wrote:
I agree totally with not needing a worked out build order. If you follow a script, then you are making assumptions about the opponent. No bronze has 3+ different build orders memorized depending on what they see at the opponents base. If they have just one they stick to, then it is a weakness not a strength.

ok the only build order that might be worth practice is the most "normal" one: for T, after the obligatory "gl hf", then supply and barracks, send out scv, block ramp, get orbital, gas, factory and starport smoothly..


Yeah, I just tell friends of mine that are in Bronze basic concepts, like get a few production structures and try to expand, and keep making workers. And don't get caught up on cute gimmicks.

Hell, I've seen Masters league Terrans have their entire game revolve around doing 3 medivac drops in one place, and since I actually pay attention to the mini-map, they just die because I pull workers, FF them in the mineral line, and they die.

The OP's list is good, but perhaps a bit too much. Really, all Bronze players should focus on is-

- Make workers constantly (and I mean never stop, most do, I had a friend on 3 bases with 25 scvs :| )
- Make production if your money keeps getting high and you are making smoothly of your current
- Scout a bit to see if what tech your opponent is getting. But don't get stuck not doing something because you haven't scouted
- Expand every 8 minutes or so.
- Don't throw armies away. Retreat if you are losing the engagement.
- Do not get supply blocked. Make supply when the current building/morphing one finishes (past 50 food)

Or basically - Make workers, keep money low, don't get supply blocked.
The voice from up high spoke - "Build more pylons"
Turenne
Profile Joined January 2011
331 Posts
February 08 2011 14:42 GMT
#63
I'm guilty of 1 (after early game), 7-8, 13, 17, 28, 52, 56, 57 etc, as a silver player naturally.

What is the best way to rally your new soldiers after you've lost a battle? And I still can't seem to work auto-repair.
bronzeterran
Profile Joined September 2010
United States296 Posts
February 08 2011 15:46 GMT
#64
ha it isn't just the bronze leagues man!

I'm guilty of half those on any given 20 game stretch. Nice list.
Chillton
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada85 Posts
February 08 2011 16:29 GMT
#65
Everyone who is in bronze and really, REALLY wants to improve I would suggest some kind of multitasking trainer maps, in the beta they have been around for quite a while and I really liked them and your mechanics improve really fast using them, they got a lot of different difficulties and everything. Just improve your controls.
Hell, I should train more on these They were really good.


Where are these maps??
Terran Fo' Life - Now Swarm Fo' Life :D
lotny
Profile Joined February 2011
Poland154 Posts
February 08 2011 16:49 GMT
#66
I feel like everyone should read this list, watch some replays and put a check next to the points they're guilty of doing. I'll definitely do just that now and start working on like 3 points at a time as it'd be too overwhelming to get all the things right.
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
February 08 2011 17:03 GMT
#67
Pretty solid list, thanks for putting this together, I am sure a bunch of people see stuff on their that even they sometimes forget to do (speaking from a high level players perspective)
Drunken.Jedi
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany446 Posts
February 08 2011 17:19 GMT
#68
On February 08 2011 21:35 chokke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 08 2011 20:50 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
Here's a much better and much shorter list:
1. Not having a solid build order
2. Clicking icons instead of using hotkeys
3. Not hotkeying your units and production buildings
4. Getting supply blocked
5. Not constantly producing units and workers

For a bronze/silver, a solid build order will not work. It's ok to have an overall strategy, but forcing to much on the buildorder removes the thought behind the action and why it's like that.
On my level, it's not the build order that wins or loses a game, it's the lack of mechanics and stuff.

That's precisely the advantage of using a fixed build order. You don't have to think about strategy.
There are two reasons why thinking about strategy within the game is bad for newer players. First, almost anything they think about strategy will range somewhere between overly simplistic and completely fucking wrong. And second, if you constantly have to think about what you should do next, you don't have enough mental capacity left for execution.

As you correctly stated, a lack of mechanics is the biggest problem for lower level players and using the same build order over and over again is exactly how you alleviate this problem. When you have played enough with a build, it starts becoming routine and you don't have to consciously think about it anymore, the same way you don't have to think about how to tie your shoelaces.
Once you have reached that state, you can focus almost exclusively on your mechanics and you will start to improve much faster.
Bommes
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany1226 Posts
February 08 2011 18:43 GMT
#69
On February 09 2011 01:29 Chillton wrote:
Show nested quote +
Everyone who is in bronze and really, REALLY wants to improve I would suggest some kind of multitasking trainer maps, in the beta they have been around for quite a while and I really liked them and your mechanics improve really fast using them, they got a lot of different difficulties and everything. Just improve your controls.
Hell, I should train more on these They were really good.


Where are these maps??


It's in the maps forum on page 1
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124983

There are 5 difficulty settings from very easy (I think this could even be a bit hard if you are in bronze/silver, but I'm not sure. Just don't get frustrated too early) to impossible.
I'm playing against 3,3-3,4k masters people (if they are slightly favored) and the second highest difficulty is really, really challenging for me. This map is really good to improve your controls from my point of view.
Mwentworth56
Profile Joined January 2011
146 Posts
February 08 2011 19:37 GMT
#70
the only problem with this is it's very specific so it wont be remebered and probably not even read all the way. you Should just get all the major ones. Not only that but some of these are acually really hard and shouldnt be counted off as soon it will never happen or you should always be able to.

1.)scout (if possiable)

2.)expand

3.)build SCV's/Probes/drones

4.)keep your money low (you can almost always spend it on somthing like more production and such)

5.)good unit composition(try somthing either standard or somthing that can effectivly deal with the army that you are seeing, when I go mech I decided how many thors and tanks I get by if they get more raoches or more mutas)

6.) I think is most important, have a game plan, it almost dosnt even have to be a great plan just having one is good

Macro/micro/game sense/APM though are all important are all things that will only get better with time and pratice and are best learned playing, not doing those pratice map/tests and such. So dont stress over those, espically APm, it's overrated and will get better with time, dont try and reach a particually high APM either some people get by better and easier without using alot of APM
Tatari
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1179 Posts
February 08 2011 19:49 GMT
#71
Setting rally points to units isn't too bad of an idea... if the unit that's being set as a rally point is strong enough to last a while so a bunch of units aren't humping each other in the base.

And you just watch a harass happen? @_@
A fed jungler is no longer a jungler, but a terrorist.
hmunkey
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-02-08 19:53:03
February 08 2011 19:52 GMT
#72
Make workers, constantly produce units, keep money low.

Constantly producing units means making supply depots/pylons/overlords. Keeping money low means building new structures/getting more tech.

That alone is enough information to easily get a player out of bronze. Hell, even expanding isn't necessary at that level.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
February 08 2011 19:58 GMT
#73
This should be stickied and retitled, "Why you are not in masters". I'm afraid that this will be the lmgtfy meme of TL.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
RHMVNovus
Profile Joined October 2010
United States738 Posts
February 08 2011 20:07 GMT
#74
I'd probably include somewhere in there that Macro Hatches are NOT a bad thing.

I was trapped in that mindset a while back. I was absolutely under the impression that macro hatches were verboten, having seen IdrA never use them.

Then I realized: I'm in fucking bronze league. I'm not as good as IdrA. I need a freaking macro hatch.

And then I proceeded to increase my winning percentage marginally, and then realized that I play Zerg, so unlike my Protoss friends in Platinum League, I actually need to follow these rules instead of 4gating every game.

I then raged.

tl;dr: Build macro hatches, fellow bronzies.
Droning his sorrows in massive amounts of macro
skirmisheR
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden451 Posts
February 08 2011 20:25 GMT
#75
I don't think things that require a lot of APM like "not spreading creep" or "using ghosts" should be used in bronze league games. As a bronze player you should focus on learning to macro at all times, not getting supplylocked, and that's it. Using ghosts or spreading creep will only distract the bronze player.
I can jungle Pudge, can you?
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