EPTWithout further adieu,
EnjoY~!
IMMVP vs EGIdrA
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
Without further adieu, EnjoY~! | ||
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Vysage
United States117 Posts
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Veclada
742 Posts
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MaverickPL
Poland28 Posts
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seffer
United States143 Posts
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
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Deadlyfish
Denmark1980 Posts
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kevinmon
United States540 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
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PangO
Chile1870 Posts
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stormchaser
Canada1009 Posts
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Terrix
Germany305 Posts
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imyzhang
Canada809 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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QuixoticO
Netherlands810 Posts
Epic game, thanks for the cast. | ||
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duckamuck
Norway12 Posts
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Liquid`Nazgul
22427 Posts
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MonsieurGrimm
Canada2441 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:35 MaverickPL wrote: Amazing game. I wish I knew the music irdra's playing cause I love it as well. It's all from Skrillex, from the album "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites". | ||
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Bluedraqy
Denmark496 Posts
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r0sh
Germany16 Posts
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Brad
2754 Posts
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
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Karthane
United States1183 Posts
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Phayze
Canada2029 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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oursblanc
Canada1450 Posts
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iko
New Zealand137 Posts
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Rhyme
United States1069 Posts
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MooseSoup
United States21 Posts
I'm not tryin to knock Idra or anything, but do we know that this was the real IMMVP? | ||
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Stil
United Kingdom206 Posts
Cheers for casting *salute* | ||
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bqzg
64 Posts
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dsxrflol
42 Posts
what impressed me the most was the insane amount of macroing idra goes in, mvp counters on 3 points while defending, idra sends lings all over the place to stop the counterdrops fc barcelona vs real madrid reloaded in sc2 | ||
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seffer
United States143 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:49 MooseSoup wrote: This is absolutely an unreal game, but does anyone else think this was uncharacteristically mistake riddled for a player like IMMVP? I'm not tryin to knock Idra or anything, but do we know that this was the real IMMVP? It is the real mvp, but I don't know why he didn't just end it with that 2 base push around the 8-9 in-game minute mark. He backed up instead. | ||
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Xadar
497 Posts
Thanks Artosis  | ||
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Carpenter
126 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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Mabius
Canada323 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:49 MooseSoup wrote: This is absolutely an unreal game, but does anyone else think this was uncharacteristically mistake riddled for a player like IMMVP? I'm not tryin to knock Idra or anything, but do we know that this was the real IMMVP? You can tell it is MVP from the way he splits his marines multiple times in the game.. Just cause you win a GSL and normally don't lose a lot of matches doesn't mean you can't make mistakes every now and then. | ||
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Cakez
United States73 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
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Copenap
723 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:34 Artosis wrote: Normally, I wouldn't make a thread about a single game. This game is different. I've never had so many requests to cast a game, and once I did, I saw why. The best player in the world, IMMVP, takes on one of the greatest Zergs in the game, IdrA from EG. An awesome game. I'm shocked nobody pointed this out so far, what happened to Clide? Trouble in paradise? Now to the obvious part, great game, nothing more to say. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
Plus... Lets face it, if MVP had won, this game wouldn't get nearly as much attention. | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
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ZeromuS
Canada13386 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:04 Bleak wrote: I really want to see some game where Siege Tanks rip Zerg apart and Terran wins convincingly. The game is definitely interesting with drops and harrassment all over the place, but anyone knows a high level game that I can watch which includes the scenario above? I think one of the july vs byun code A sets on scrap station you can see a very slow and effective tank push with turret support. on topic: very nice cast and an amazing game. both players made so many good decisions and microed amazingly well during the battles. Shakuras seems to be THE TvZ map at the moment: - clide vs leenock - kiryx vs marineking - idra vs mvp | ||
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MooseSoup
United States21 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:55 Mabius wrote: You can tell it is MVP from the way he splits his marines multiple times in the game.. Just cause you win a GSL and normally don't lose a lot of matches doesn't mean you can't make mistakes every now and then. I get that, but the amount of mistakes that were made by MVP just didn't seem like mistakes he would make. His play is usually nearly perfect, impeccable. This game had so many blunders on MVPs side of the game. I don't know, maybe it's because it's just a ladder game but.....just seems strange. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
i wish idra played this game in GSL instead of ladder | ||
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Dakk
Sweden572 Posts
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:15 MooseSoup wrote: I get that, but the amount of mistakes that were made by MVP just didn't seem like mistakes he would make. His play is usually nearly perfect, impeccable. This game had so many blunders on MVPs side of the game. I don't know, maybe it's because it's just a ladder game but.....just seems strange. what are you even talking about? | ||
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Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
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pigtheman
United States333 Posts
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Proto_Protoss
United States495 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:15 MooseSoup wrote: I get that, but the amount of mistakes that were made by MVP just didn't seem like mistakes he would make. His play is usually nearly perfect, impeccable. This game had so many blunders on MVPs side of the game. I don't know, maybe it's because it's just a ladder game but.....just seems strange. Even top BW players make significant mistakes pretty much every game. There was nothing unusual about this game, besides the fact MVP didn't use the shakura's free win push through the rocks. I suppose he wanted to practice a more interesting build. | ||
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Minimi][
Germany43 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
That game was very close in my opinion. Very impressive play from both players. I like these macro players, willing to play a straight economic strategic game. I like the fact that unlike many other Terrans, IMMvp doesn't sacrifice defense for the sake of offense. as for Idra, that was an impressive performance. He is a very composed guy, eh keeps his cool and doesn't afraid of anything. I have a question, when you reach mass muta, wouldn't it be better to split the pack, in order to harass multiple locations at the same time? I understand that it may require insane apm and multitasking though... @Idra your infestor play was insane. Also I'd like to see you perform some Baneling drops edit; yes it was just a ladder game so please don't draw any silly conclusions  | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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a9arnn
United States1537 Posts
, I'm glad I get to watch the full thing now, and from both points of view! It was really awesome from Idra's fpview though.Thanks for commentating! | ||
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PheNOM_
United States417 Posts
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
I saw it live, he was on 4-5 bases with no more than 300 minerals each time. The drops also fucked his economy and production because some of them sniped a number of hatcheries. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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buMf00d
Netherlands194 Posts
Thanks for the content as usual Artosis. | ||
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Infenwe
Denmark170 Posts
Now off to watch the game — I'm sure it's excellent. | ||
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Strut
United States182 Posts
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ertecs
Germany29 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
Can't imagine how exhausting it must've been though. | ||
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TheRPGAddict
United States1403 Posts
Edit: Skipped over that post that gave the album, thanks a bunch. | ||
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Apoo
413 Posts
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MaverickPL
Poland28 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:43 MonsieurGrimm wrote: It's all from Skrillex, from the album "Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites". Thanks alot mate! | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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Kazzabiss
1006 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:43 Infenwe wrote: "without further adieu"?! I hope that's intentional because 'adieu' is French for 'goodbye' and an 'ado' is a fuss — as in "Much Ado About Nothing" by Shakespeare. Now off to watch the game — I'm sure it's excellent. In the context it was said, he meant Without further waiting (or delay) It's a very common phrase in English | ||
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joomanjii
United States284 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:47 TheRPGAddict wrote: Does anyone know the song that played during that game (on his stream), it was a ridiculously upbeat techno song with a slight hint of vocals. Very cool song. And that game was certainly GSL code S worthy. Get me pumped for Season 5. Idra was playing Skrillex's album 'Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites.' I'm not sure of the exact songs, but I think one of the songs was 'With You, Friends' and a couple remixes of his track 'Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites.' | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
Watching now! | ||
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Fist
Netherlands235 Posts
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Archontas
United States319 Posts
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DashedHopes
Canada414 Posts
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
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Semipsyc
Korea (South)123 Posts
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lphoenixl
Canada71 Posts
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MaxField
United States2386 Posts
EDIT: for those wondering, another on of the songs he listened to a bunch was "Kill Everybody" by skillex! | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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trw
Sweden10 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:14 clickrush wrote: on topic: very nice cast and an amazing game. both players made so many good decisions and microed amazingly well during the battles. Shakuras seems to be THE TvZ map at the moment: - clide vs leenock - kiryx vs marineking - idra vs mvp I completely agree, thats why its so silly to read the threads about big maps changing the balance. Every TvZ game I've seen on shakuras has always been the best game in the series, it seems balanced but even if you disregard balance the map seems to bring out the best for spectators. This is why larger maps are encouraged in the community just for real watching value. | ||
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Tschis
Brazil1511 Posts
//tx | ||
JWD
United States12607 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:35 MaverickPL wrote: Amazing game. I wish I knew the music irdra's playing cause I love it as well. In case nobody's mentioned it yet: the music is Skrillex. | ||
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Mithriel
Netherlands2969 Posts
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Artosis Mermaid
United States34 Posts
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Infenwe
Denmark170 Posts
On February 06 2011 05:52 Kazzabiss wrote: In the context it was said, he meant Without further waiting (or delay) It's a very common phrase in English I know. But that doesn't change that it's either wrong or a (bad) attempt at being funny by adding something "extra foreign" (I forget what the technical term is and my google/wikipedia-fu isn't strong enough today). | ||
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ThePurist
Canada686 Posts
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kataa
United Kingdom384 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:17 JWD wrote: In case nobody's mentioned it yet: the music is Skrillex. Just saw him live last week, totally awesome. As is the game. | ||
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darklordjac
Canada2231 Posts
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Synche
United States1345 Posts
Adieu is commonly and incorrectly substituted. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
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xCyan1de
United States64 Posts
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TaKemE
Denmark1045 Posts
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Marl
United States692 Posts
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YunhOLee
Canada2470 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:34 Teogamer wrote: Kinda funny that TvZ is in such bad shape, that any game that goes over 20 minutes is considered epic. Its not the time that made it epic it was the Macro/Micro + who was playing. | ||
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Barbiero
Brazil5259 Posts
Thank you Artosis. | ||
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okaygo
United States83 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:34 Teogamer wrote: Kinda funny that TvZ is in such bad shape, that any game that goes over 20 minutes is considered epic. How is tvz in bad shape would like to hear it and how it affects this particular game. Also its not the time that made the game epic watch the game and then read your post again and tell me you don't look stupid posting like that -_-. | ||
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nWong
Canada145 Posts
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
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S.dragon
United States20 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Anyway, quite an epic game. Great control by IdrA to win there, it was entertaining to watch from only his perspective before, and now watching the entire game unfold, I am still awed at how well he played. | ||
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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:48 m3rciless wrote: You know, I just realized that if MVPs stimpush had just gone for idra's main, he would have killed him and just ended the game right there. On stream Idra made the same comment after the game to some guy who messaged him on Bnet. While this was a pretty amazing game, after the failed stimpush that could have won the game really it was kind of obvious Idra was in a commanding lead the whole time. The only thing that made it look close was MVP's incredible drop harass doing tons of damage. | ||
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Rain.cz
Czech Republic227 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:51 Geovu wrote: On stream Idra made the same comment after the game to some guy who messaged him on Bnet. While this was a pretty amazing game, after the failed stimpush that could have won the game really it was kind of obvious Idra was in a commanding lead the whole time. The only thing that made it look close was MVP's incredible drop harass doing tons of damage. Idra blew a huge lead when he was on 4 base vs MVP's 2 base, and he attacked with his max army and just got crushed cause his banelings were too far behind the rest of his army. There were a few blunders by each player that really evened the game out and made it closer than it should have been. | ||
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Truffy
United States95 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
If only more GSL games were like that. | ||
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BamBam
745 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:19 Infenwe wrote: I know. But that doesn't change that it's either wrong or a (bad) attempt at being funny by adding something "extra foreign" (I forget what the technical term is and my google/wikipedia-fu isn't strong enough today). Jesus just some people cant help but being a crock -_- yes the phrase is correctly stated as "Without further ado" as in, without further delay or fuss about the subject so yes his spelling is wrong in that regard, but honestly, who cares? Seriously (and no, its not an attempt at being "Funny"). Anyways, loved the game! The fact idra was able to pick off so many tanks, preventing any real push to hit idra just awe struck me, kinda got scared when I watched his stream and him just throwing units away that didnt seem to do a whole lot damage. Nice to finally be able immvp's PoV xD | ||
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Shinshady
Canada1237 Posts
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Snickersnee
United States241 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
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d_e_x
Poland41 Posts
Exelent tank picking by mutas  | ||
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Jager
United Kingdom140 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:13 BetterFasterStronger wrote: it was a good game yes, but. Even idra would tell you he did luck out that that Stim Marine Maraduer push didn't just go to his base and attack him. Because he wasn't ready for it. Also goes to show how lucky you have to get as Zerg to beat terran sometimes. That last comment really wasn't necessary, even when zerg wins you still find a way to whine about balance. | ||
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shadowy
Bulgaria305 Posts
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Omnipresent
United States871 Posts
IdrA had a couple really ridiculous fungals that game. Artosis missed a couple (which makes sense given all the action going on). In particular, he baited MVP's units in the north using broodlords and then fungaled them in place from the low ground. You wouldn't know it from the VOD, but A LOT of MVP's units simply blew up from fungals alone in that game. | ||
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.Aar
2177 Posts
Favorited, too! | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Epic fungals as well, around the 25min mark. | ||
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:25 Jager wrote: That last comment really wasn't necessary, even when zerg wins you still find a way to whine about balance. I'm a terran player in masters, its not whining. Its reality. | ||
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WarChimp
Australia943 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:13 BetterFasterStronger wrote: it was a good game yes, but. Even idra would tell you he did luck out that that Stim Marine Maraduer push didn't just go to his base and attack him. Because he wasn't ready for it. Also goes to show how lucky you have to get as Zerg to beat terran sometimes. Such an unwanted, unwarranted and uncalled for balance whine. After taking such an extremely late third without damaging IdrA's economy, MVP was basically on the ropes the entire game. Both players did a fantastic job and then you come in here to downplay someone's performance, very classy. | ||
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Silkk
United States41 Posts
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imgoingaow
United States26 Posts
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MagnusHyperion
United States288 Posts
Man! I am blown away by their godly economy management, unit production, and map controlling! Phew! SC2 the way it is meant to be played right here folks! | ||
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War Horse
United States247 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:13 BetterFasterStronger wrote: it was a good game yes, but. Even idra would tell you he did luck out that that Stim Marine Maraduer push didn't just go to his base and attack him. Because he wasn't ready for it. Also goes to show how lucky you have to get to beat the undisputed best player in the world sometimes. I fixed your post for you. Great game, saw it live, seeing it from MVP perspective was very interesting | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:35 imgoingaow wrote: I can't help but think that MVP would have won in the very beginning if he went all in with scvs. Idra had no banelings, 1 spine, and some lings. Are you kidding? He would of EASILY rolled over idra without scv. He had like 4 marauders, 16 marines (all with stim) vs like 1 spine, 2 queens, and 15 zerglings. The fact that game lasted 45 minutes is a result of him simply not going and killing idra early game, which he usually does in GSL matches. | ||
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Rouel
Sweden138 Posts
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Kvothe
201 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:19 Infenwe wrote: I know. But that doesn't change that it's either wrong or a (bad) attempt at being funny by adding something "extra foreign" (I forget what the technical term is and my google/wikipedia-fu isn't strong enough today). Seriously you are turning a starcraft discussion into this? A very fantastic game and you are writing this shit about adieu? Why? What is wrong with you? Please go somewhere else. | ||
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Klamity
United States994 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:34 Saechiis wrote: Great cast and awesome game, definitely finals material, make it happen Such an unwanted, unwarranted and uncalled for balance whine. After taking such an extremely late third without damaging IdrA's economy, MVP was basically on the ropes the entire game. Both players did a fantastic job and then you come in here to downplay someone's performance, very classy. IdrA already said he got lucky in that game... So Yeah. Go watch the end of the VOD on his stream. Where he says "I got early lucky" "he Marine Maradeur Me Die " to some korean. Like i said, Terran player. I am not whining. | ||
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:45 Klamity wrote: I'm very surprised MVP pulled back with the initial bio ball. I'm also surprised that he didn't decide to push through the bottom rocks. Is it really not optimal to do anymore? Yeah the initial bio ball would of killed IdrA. I want to say that MVP was just practicing NOT taking the rocks. Because he seems to have it refined. But i don't know. Also i think with the siege tank through the middle he wanted to just set up and split it so that he could send like 4 marines to kill the EXPO while the tanks don't let idra leave his natural. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:53 Endorsed wrote: How is it luck. MVP assumed idra is good and can handle some MM pressure. Idra never scouted Mvps front so he wasnt prepared MVP didn't scan the ramp. If he did, he would of saw panic spines, and a very small zergling army. Instead, he scanned the low ground and killed tumors instead. | ||
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vileChAnCe
Canada525 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:34 Saechiis wrote: Great cast and awesome game, definitely finals material, make it happen Such an unwanted, unwarranted and uncalled for balance whine. After taking such an extremely late third without damaging IdrA's economy, MVP was basically on the ropes the entire game. Both players did a fantastic job and then you come in here to downplay someone's performance, very classy. It's not even about balance I'm not sure you even know what your talking about or criticizing. You get a pro to analyze that replay and not cast it for face value and he'll tell you that was a stupid game, based on cutting corners and MvP deciding he wanted to practice late game. IdrA is doing a build that he should know isn't viable at all but he consistently does it because it gives him an advantage late game. I don't want to take away from the entertainment value of the game but purely from a learning perspective the game is bad play to learn from. | ||
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Gummy
United States2180 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:55 Fa1nT wrote: MVP didn't scan the ramp. If he did, he would of saw panic spines, and a very small zergling army. Instead, he scanned the low ground and killed tumors instead. I think Idra took a calculated risk given the timings involved, and his mind game paid off. He got that extra macro advantage and MVP didn't take the timing window. It's not that MVP purposely didn't take the timing window... he just didn't know he had it based on the meta-game and Idra's build. | ||
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CosmicHippo
United States547 Posts
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preacha
Norway210 Posts
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vileChAnCe
Canada525 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:57 Gummy wrote: I think Idra took a calculated risk given the timings involved, and his mind game paid off. He got that extra macro advantage and MVP didn't take the timing window. It's not that MVP purposely didn't take the timing window... he just didn't know he had it based on the meta-game and Idra's build. I could be wrong and so could you but based on MvP's play I actually think he was just going through the steps and practicing. He had the scan he had the timing window he knows Idra to go for fast mutas. The only reason why a terran wouldn't scan up a ramp is if they know whats going on and have no intentions of wanting to win the game at that point. You don't get to MvP's level but just making a calculated guess and blowing a scan on tumours instead of gauging his push. | ||
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Reason.SC2
Canada1047 Posts
Let me summarize the reasoning behind "IdrA got lucky and thats the only reason he won" At some point MVP likely could have performed a set of actions that would have made him win the game. If at any point in a game, my opponent could have beat me but didn't, I am very lucky. Therefore, IdrA got really luck to beat MVP. Do you notice that this reasoning implies that the vast majority of games are luck decided? Also, are you aware of the definition of lucky? If your opponent makes more mistakes than you and you win as a result, that is not a lucky win: it is you playing better and exploiting errors in the other person's play. So much QQ its unreal. I wonder why some of you guys even bother playing the game if all you want to do is bitch and whine. Tip: if you're going to whine at least do it in a coherent manner. | ||
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Zim23
United States1681 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:56 Whomp wrote: It's not even about balance I'm not sure you even know what your talking about or criticizing. You get a pro to analyze that replay and not cast it for face value and he'll tell you that was a stupid game, based on cutting corners and MvP deciding he wanted to practice late game. IdrA is doing a build that he should know isn't viable at all but he consistently does it because it gives him an advantage late game. I don't want to take away from the entertainment value of the game but purely from a learning perspective the game is bad play to learn from. What did I say that makes you think I don't know what I'm talking about? I criticized this guy's balance whine about Zerg needing luck to win. You're also misunderstanding the meaning of a good game, the fact that it doesn't follow the standards of a matchup doesn't mean the players aren't playing well. I'm also guessing that IdrA disagrees with you concerning the viability of the build. Frankly, I'm just amazed at the QQ. All Zergs jumping on this game saying IdrA got lucky, since Zerg is underpowered and IdrA should as such not be able to beat the best player in the world, amazing. | ||
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endlives
28 Posts
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Ponkio
Italy52 Posts
Thank you so much for upping it. | ||
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tbrown47
United States1235 Posts
Not trying to be a downer... it was a good game still : P | ||
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0neder
United States3733 Posts
On February 06 2011 06:34 Teogamer wrote: Kinda funny that TvZ is in such bad shape, that any game that goes over 20 minutes is considered epic. 20 minutes is about the threshold for an epic brood war game if there is lots of back and forth with great micro, positioning, and strategy. | ||
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Serthius
Samoa226 Posts
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SpaceFighting
New Zealand690 Posts
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MIKster
Germany333 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:12 tbrown47 wrote: A good game, but not one of the "Best in SC2 so far", imo. Not trying to be a downer... it was a good game still : P any game with a zerg and terran that isnt an all in is one of the best. | ||
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EliteReplay
Dominican Republic913 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
pushing and investing in a strong push (MM) but never execute it. that's bad. that's what day9 and your common sense tells you: an army not attacking is just floating money. Ok, he was probably aiming for the 3rd and not seeing it made him assume zerg's money went to army, but then again never checking is kind of bad play. second strong push with siege that's supposed to shut down zerg's 3rd got delayed forever and 2/3 tanks got sniped late 3rd for terran for me as Terran it was painful to watch as i knew it's just downhill from there. | ||
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Popsycle
34 Posts
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yoplate
United States332 Posts
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vileChAnCe
Canada525 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:08 Saechiis wrote: What did I say that makes you think I don't know what I'm talking about? I criticized this guy's balance whine about Zerg needing luck to win. You're also misunderstanding the meaning of a good game, the fact that it doesn't follow the standards of a matchup doesn't mean the players aren't playing well. I'm also guessing that IdrA disagrees with you concerning the viability of the build. Frankly, I'm just amazed at the QQ. All Zergs jumping on this game saying IdrA got lucky, since Zerg is underpowered and IdrA should as such not be able to beat the best player in the world, amazing. Okay I'm sorry for saying that, and I am by no means QQ'ing I just don't think the game from MvP's perspective was played to win. What I mean about IdrA's play not being viable is the vulnerability to go fast muta's after seeing 3 rax at front, you then decide its okay to have 1 spine get 2 gas and pray to whatever God you have that he's not going to scan your natural looking for exactly that? It's not like MvP doesn't know who the gracken is or what his playstyle favors, the entire push MvP did was designed to end him because greg was assuming that MvP would do a slow push through the rocks making fast mutas a little safer. MvP blowing his scan to kill the 2 tumors seemed like a taunt more then anything. | ||
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JWD
United States12607 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:25 danielsan wrote: other than unhuman multitasking and control from both sides …exactly! IdrA's infestor play wowed my socks off. Those fungals across the chasm that killed about 40 marines had me yelling "AUGHHGHHHHHH"! | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:28 Popsycle wrote: look at this guy above me complaining about what was a good game. technically it was amazing strategically it was sub par | ||
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Quixxotik
United States54 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:28 Popsycle wrote: look at this guy above me complaining about what was a good game. I love how he adds "other than the unhuman multitasking" like it's some kind of aside. Like "oh besides the incredible stuff going on, this was indeed the shittiest things I have ever seen. | ||
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wheelchairs
United States145 Posts
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latan
740 Posts
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ageai
Germany81 Posts
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absalom86
Iceland1770 Posts
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
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Quixxotik
United States54 Posts
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Aaayaaa
United States88 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:14 Serthius wrote: I wonder why Mvp didn't push with tanks and turrets through the bottom corridor like all the other terrans do? Never seen any zerg able to defend that. Tried a full macro game. MVP...wow superb multitasking and macro... | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10293 Posts
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wheelchairs
United States145 Posts
inspire me grack!! | ||
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TryThis
Canada1522 Posts
it was crazy awesome. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
As some have pointed out (and myself in other threads), MVP misread IdrA's lack of a 3rd and chose to withdraw with his army. The only other real mistake he made was when he pushed again, his army positioning wasn't perfect and IdrA's mutas were in position to punish him for it costing him the 2 tanks and a couple of medivacs. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:31 Quixxotik wrote: I love how he adds "other than the unhuman multitasking" like it's some kind of aside. Like "oh besides the incredible stuff going on, this was indeed the shittiest things I have ever seen. Oh look Ronaldinho played poorly the entire game, didnt create any opportunities for his teammates but GOD HIS FREE KICKS WERE SO OUT OF THIS WORLD. | ||
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FALAPARK
United States224 Posts
oh and hi nazgul! | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:43 danielsan wrote: Oh look Ronaldinho played poorly the entire game, didnt create any opportunities for his teammates but GOD HIS FREE KICKS WERE SO OUT OF THIS WORLD. apples and oranges | ||
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Holdinga
Bulgaria300 Posts
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/QACsd.jpg) Made by me =) | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:43 danielsan wrote: Oh look Ronaldinho played poorly the entire game, didnt create any opportunities for his teammates but GOD HIS FREE KICKS WERE SO OUT OF THIS WORLD. Oh look it was a ladder game, not the FIFA world cup. | ||
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ReacH.
Scotland333 Posts
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iEchoic
United States1776 Posts
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Asha
United Kingdom38150 Posts
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kvn4444
1510 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:45 iEchoic wrote: I've heard a lot about this game and expected an incredibly good game, and while it was a good game, Idra was winning handily the entire game. It wasn't even very close at any point. Idra played very well, so from that perspective, it was interesting, but other than that it was just a slow choke-out. Don't say that, fanboys will eat you alive. On February 06 2011 08:42 I_Love_Bacon wrote: For those talking about MVP's late 3rd, go watch him vs Nestea on Shakuras in the semi finals of last season's GSL again. A strong push off of 2 bases with upgrades and proper positioning is super, super, super strong. Had MVP gone through the back rocks he might very well have ended the game, but we wont know now. As some have pointed out (and myself in other threads), MVP misread IdrA's lack of a 3rd and chose to withdraw with his army. The only other real mistake he made was when he pushed again, his army positioning wasn't perfect and IdrA's mutas were in position to punish him for it costing him the 2 tanks and a couple of medivacs. looking back at it, retreating MM and tank pushing through the middle might have been deliberate if he was aiming to test his macro vs supposedly the best macro zerg. It's off competitions and good practice, so why not? | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
Proof positive that if you give Zerg an accessible third than the match-up, for the most part, is fine and dandy. | ||
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Eeeegor
Australia809 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:25 Jager wrote: That last comment really wasn't necessary, even when zerg wins you still find a way to whine about balance. Should that be how it is? You should always have to get lucky to beat MVP. IdrA is amazing but even IdrA admits that MVP is the best | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:44 Holdinga wrote: Made by me =) nice, those were my sentiments too during that part | ||
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Cano
Poland200 Posts
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Beef Noodles
United States937 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:44 Holdinga wrote: Made by me =) Actually pointing out a useful harass technique is cooler in my opinion to watching fungal kill marines. We all saw them die. We don't need for him to say "OOOOOO look how green they are!" I like the useful stuff Artosis is the man | ||
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Dubpace
United States251 Posts
It was a huge blunder on IMMVP's part and a great moment for IdrA for seizing that opportunity. | ||
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Warpath
Canada1242 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:44 Holdinga wrote: Made by me =) I was thinking the same thing. Broodlords are a dime a dozen. Seeing that many marines die in unison to fungal. Priceless. | ||
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Baffels
United States1486 Posts
On February 06 2011 07:45 Klamity wrote: I'm very surprised MVP pulled back with the initial bio ball. I'm also surprised that he didn't decide to push through the bottom rocks. Is it really not optimal to do anymore? Ditto. Though the more I think about it the more I have to say it comes down to it was a ladder game. I mean the combination of the above plus his extremely late third and thors/second factory really allowed Idras mutas to do alot of damage and harassment. This was great but when you take all these into consideration its just an epic ladder game. | ||
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MCMXVI
Norway1193 Posts
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Serpico
4285 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:16 MCMXVI wrote: IMMvp is still better than Idra, just because he says GG before he leaves the game, something Idra with 99.8% certainty wouldn't have done Lol, I dont get how someone could get some angry over something he only does on ladder. | ||
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Meatpuppet
United States86 Posts
Any prespective from a terran on the more demanding aspects of what MVP was called on to perform? Splitting marines in the top right corner seemed impressive, dropship micro seemed strong, overall just good decision making by MVP. Also seemed like some signifigant mistakes made though losing so many tanks/dropships to the early muta ball. I disagree with Idra getting lucky MVP didn't push up the ramp with his timing attack, I think mostly he wanted to force IDRA to make some units, delay his 3rd or snipe his 3rd. Also in general I don't think most progamers just blind a-move during a strong timing attack period. Even if he scouted the ramp would he still want to go? It's a big toss of the dice to just gamble that Idra just spend a round of larvae on drones and didn't have a group of 10+ lings morphed into banes in response to MVP moving out. | ||
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krews
United States1308 Posts
other than that, thanks for the cast! | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:16 MCMXVI wrote: IMMvp is still better than Idra, just because he says GG before he leaves the game, something Idra with 99.8% certainty wouldn't have done For people that didn't watch it live, IdrA was actually GM after the game. Thanks for the cast Artosis. I think it loses some excitement from the live stream because IdrA was so far ahead in bases, but you couldn't really tell from his PoV. | ||
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raser
Norway301 Posts
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[GiTM]-Ace
United States4935 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:33 Jibba wrote: For people that didn't watch it live, IdrA was actually GM after the game. Thanks for the cast Artosis. I think it loses some excitement from the live stream because IdrA was so far ahead in bases, but you couldn't really tell from his PoV. oh really? how...were they chatting? | ||
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Slegg
Czech Republic75 Posts
Amazing game, thanks for showing us! | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:46 kvn4444 wrote: I really thought mvp would use the strat he used against nestea and break the rocks and set up a contain with tanks and slowly kill the zerg. since they were close positions, same thing jinro did to Idra when they spawned in those positions. Might be practicing not doing that though with the new map pool being used in the next gsl. Good game though mvp seemed real passive throughout I felt but thats probably because he was fighting from behind the majority of the game. he couldn't coz idra already destroy his back door rocks and have an overlord to see if mvp is gonna do that Do you even listen to the cast? Artosis even emphasize that, destroying rocks will prevent Mvp to assume a defensive position | ||
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Deekin[
Serbia1713 Posts
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:44 Holdinga wrote: Made by me =) Hahahaahh | ||
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flanksteak
Canada246 Posts
Had he scanned a little further up the ramp he would've saw a few spines and maybe even the baneling nest that wasn't finished building. With that many marines and no banelings the game would've ended immediately. Lucky us | ||
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uSnAmplified
United States1029 Posts
Im really not understanding all the complaining though, its a good long macro game that everyone whines and moans that we never get to see, then a good showing is posted by two great players and its picked apart as subpar and not good enough. Guess people will never be pleased  | ||
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zerious
Canada3803 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
He was actually telling a korean that messaged him afterwords that he got very lucky in the win and then he was very friendly with the chat from his j.tv chat. It was actually one of the few times a korean has said "Hi" to him and he didn't respond "Fuck off" or "Fuck you faggit" lol. | ||
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flanksteak
Canada246 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:39 Deekin[ wrote: Im not really excited about this, even without watching its quite obvious IdrA wins this match since its a replay coming from IdrA himself... He has a live stream, which he provides, for everyone to see; both his wins and losses. So no, you don't get to make drive by snide comments about someone, especially when you're wrong. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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The_Piper42
United States426 Posts
IdrA fighting!~ | ||
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falstag
United States55 Posts
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:16 MCMXVI wrote: IMMvp is still better than Idra, just because he says GG before he leaves the game, something Idra with 99.8% certainty wouldn't have done Yup I say gg every game therefore I'm the best player in the world. Get a fucking clue kid. Idra took down the best sc2 player in the world. | ||
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Durn
Canada360 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:12 Megaliskuu wrote: Yup I say gg every game therefore I'm the best player in the world. Get a fucking clue kid. Idra took down the best sc2 player in the world. Seriously. If you've ever watched IdrA's stream, you'd know he gg's on any game that goes into macro, unless he makes a huge misclick or something. The guy knows respect, and he calls gg when he sees it. If it wasn't a good game, he doesn't say it. If you watched his stream, you'd also know that ~70% of the Koreans he plays against rage quit. | ||
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Flanagan
United States166 Posts
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Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
However... + Show Spoiler + Truth be told I found it a little boring aside from the solid macro and micro. Idra was just clearly ahead the entire game and was never in any real danger of falling behind. MVP played well enough to not die, but I was hoping for a better game with more back and forth. On February 06 2011 09:18 Meatpuppet wrote: Gotta say that is the best game I've ever seen. Not whining about balance but it seemed idra had to play so well to deal with the ever growing terran presance in the middle of the map, and deal with all the drop play. It's just intimidiating to think you have to play like that to beat a strong macro terran. I understand MVP played extremely well too. Any prespective from a terran on the more demanding aspects of what MVP was called on to perform? Splitting marines in the top right corner seemed impressive, dropship micro seemed strong, overall just good decision making by MVP. Also seemed like some signifigant mistakes made though losing so many tanks/dropships to the early muta ball. I disagree with Idra getting lucky MVP didn't push up the ramp with his timing attack, I think mostly he wanted to force IDRA to make some units, delay his 3rd or snipe his 3rd. Also in general I don't think most progamers just blind a-move during a strong timing attack period. Even if he scouted the ramp would he still want to go? It's a big toss of the dice to just gamble that Idra just spend a round of larvae on drones and didn't have a group of 10+ lings morphed into banes in response to MVP moving out. Not a Terran but a Random player. The difficult part for the Terran is dealing with superior Zerg mobility. Artosis was spot on in pointing out that Idra's killing the tanks/medivacs midgame was crucial and probably had a landslide effect. If a Terran drops the ball for one sec and a Zerg has good muta control, on a big map like Shakuras it's definitely easy to pick off crucial units like that. Not that I think it was 'easier' for the Zerg, but I disagree with you that Idra had to work harder. The micro goes both ways. | ||
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`Forte
United States128 Posts
Your commentary is great, but the one thing that puts me off from watching your casts for long is the fast scroll speed with the arrow keys/mouse. I'm only 12 minutes into the video and it's giving me a headache. You scroll around the screen often to see the map, and because of the fast scroll speed it makes the image blur, especially without an uber high FPS. If you could turn down the scroll speed in the future, at least just for casts, that's be great. Thanks. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:15 Durn wrote: Seriously. If you've ever watched IdrA's stream, you'd know he gg's on any game that goes into macro, unless he makes a huge misclick or something. The guy knows respect, and he calls gg when he sees it. If it wasn't a good game, he doesn't say it. If you watched his stream, you'd also know that ~70% of the Koreans he plays against rage quit. I don't think that's true. | ||
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Genovi
Sweden388 Posts
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Ulfsark
United States958 Posts
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dunc
Netherlands1105 Posts
It isn't. The second part about Koreans not gg'ing isn't either, nearly every korean player I've seen on Idra's stream gg's. Also Idra took down the best player in the world once, I hope people will get over that soon. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
The truth is, other players know IdrA reputation well enough that try bait him into raging, calling him grack and shit, etc. If people know they can get under your skin, they're going to do everything they can to annoy the piss and shit out of you. (Edited a bit because its a boring topic.) | ||
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Mycl
Australia1370 Posts
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debasers
737 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:15 Durn wrote: Seriously. If you've ever watched IdrA's stream, you'd know he gg's on any game that goes into macro, unless he makes a huge misclick or something. The guy knows respect, and he calls gg when he sees it. If it wasn't a good game, he doesn't say it. If you watched his stream, you'd also know that ~70% of the Koreans he plays against rage quit. You don't watch IdrA's stream. I watch it very very often, and I never saw he gg in a game which he lost. | ||
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Juaks
United States384 Posts
Epic game awesome macro and micro from both players. Thank you | ||
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kirkybaby
Korea (South)781 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:49 dunc wrote: It isn't. The second part about Koreans not gg'ing isn't either, nearly every korean player I've seen on Idra's stream gg's. Also Idra took down the best player in the world once, I hope people will get over that soon. just food for thought, but, i play on the korean sever (at a much lower level) and i get gg's about 50/50.. depends on the person either way. the biggest thing to take away from it is how little i care about someone saying gg or not. of all the things to complain about, who really cares if someone types gg | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
And Defacer, I don't see why it's a strategic weakness. If anything, attracting asshole behavior from other players is a competitive advantage. If someone plays differently from their normal behavior, they'll be playing suboptimally; the same concept applies in poker (more so there, but still somewhat here). | ||
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Deleted User 109835
629 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43974 Posts
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Space Invader
Australia291 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/6248/mulesarecool.png) so ez i was watching the stream at the time, i think the best moment of any zerg in sc2 was when he killed about 50 marines with fungal | ||
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branflakes14
2082 Posts
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Dalavita
Sweden1113 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:07 Space Invader wrote: so ez i was watching the stream at the time, i think the best moment of any zerg in sc2 was when he killed about 50 marines with fungal And then it was down to 200 minerals per minute ten seconds later. Whoa op. Good game all in all tho, I especially liked how he baited the vikings with brood lords only to back them off and fly in with mutas to kill the approaching vikings. Didn't think MVP would fall for that one personally. Also not sure why MVP didn't grab the closer expansions to his top right rather than going for one that was easily harassable miles away, although I guess that could leave his main open. | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:12 Megaliskuu wrote: Yup I say gg every game therefore I'm the best player in the world. Get a fucking clue kid. Idra took down the best sc2 player in the world. "your not my father!!11!!11!!" | ||
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Highways
Australia6098 Posts
http://www.justin.tv/24california/b/278893657 source | ||
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Bond(i2)
Canada926 Posts
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zergules
United States55 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:52 seffer wrote: It is the real mvp, but I don't know why he didn't just end it with that 2 base push around the 8-9 in-game minute mark. He backed up instead. It's entirely possible he knew the game was won, but wanted the chance to practice his macro TvZ against one of the few people who could provide a challenge. Thanks Artosis for casting it. I've already seen the video, but I'll watch your casted version for anything I missed the first time. Great game! | ||
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mufin
United States616 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:21 Bond(i2) wrote: It's depressing as a zerg user to see that MVP had 60% of Idras supply for pretty much the whole game, but still almost won on multiple occasions. T_T meh you can't judge a zvX game in that manner. on 3-4 bases+, zerg's strength comes from their 300 food push not from being slightly ahead in food count. | ||
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Warrice
United States565 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:21 Bond(i2) wrote: It's depressing as a zerg user to see that MVP had 60% of Idras supply for pretty much the whole game, but still almost won on multiple occasions. T_T mvp never really almost won" he went for a 2 base timing attack and didnt follow through, he was behind but held on for pretty much the rest of the game. | ||
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FliedLice
Germany7494 Posts
how the hell do you spread your marines like that? | ||
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Inflexion
Canada560 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:21 Bond(i2) wrote: It's depressing as a zerg user to see that MVP had 60% of Idras supply for pretty much the whole game, but still almost won on multiple occasions. T_T I don't get what you're getting at. If Terran was even supply with Zerg the entire game, Zerg will get rolled every game because Terran units are way more cost effective. This is by design. Terran has cost effective and very defensive units while Zerg relies on a lot of bases, flanking and superior supply to 'throw' at the Terran. The rest comes down to decision making and player performance..... This is how the game should be played and what 'more' games should be like. What's the problem at the moment is that the game never gets to this stage because of the strength of 2raxing, bunker rushes, cheese, close positions, etc.... Now, you're complaining about how 'depressing' it is?......... This is a great game and this is how the game should be played. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:01 lolsixtynine wrote: Leaving a game on ladder with no gg =/= rage quitting And Defacer, I don't see why it's a strategic weakness. If anything, attracting asshole behavior from other players is a competitive advantage. If someone plays differently from their normal behavior, they'll be playing suboptimally; the same concept applies in poker (more so there, but still somewhat here). I'm just talking about this specific example today, GuineaPig was being obnoxious on IdrA's stream, trying to make him tilt. IdrA didn't ... but he also lost. The loss is a coincidence. IdrA doesn't tilt often, but he has a rep for being tilt-able. So people don't play him the same way. You think it's a good thing, but I've seen IdrA lose to a lot of bunker rushes and 2-rax bullshit. Yes, people are changing the way they play for IdrA, but my gut tells me IdrA gets the short end of the stick 90% of the time. Who's tilting who here? IdrA been good at staying true to his macro-style, and playing the 'right way,' but all this all-in cheese is why you see players like Fruitdealer almost dropping out of Code S -- he's going away from what he's good at and trying his own paranoid all-ins. But that's probably a separate issue. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:26 FliedLice wrote: my facial expression at 19minutes: O_O how the hell do you spread your marines like that? 5 control groups and then manual splitting of the groups if you have time/apm to spare On February 06 2011 11:01 lolsixtynine wrote: Leaving a game on ladder with no gg =/= rage quitting Exactly. No gg = wasn't a good game. People throw out gg's for no reason, not saying it doesn't mean anything important. Cussing your opponent out then leaving does. | ||
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
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Gorguts
Canada254 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:34 Aquafresh wrote: Watching this from IdrA's fpview I didn't realize how late MVPs third was. I knew he missed the stim timing attack because he thought there was a base at 9 but it looks like the big ass 2 base push that IdrA delayed by catching those tanks and medivacs was designed to end the game right there. It wasn't until MVP abandoned that position that he took his 3rd and he was behind from that point onward. his stim timing attack might have won the game if he committed, idra's baneling nest wasnt even done when MVP was near his creep. you could tell MVP was afraid of banelings because he only sent the marauders in to kill the creep tumor. | ||
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
For those who are debating whether IMMvp conciously decided to make it a "practice" game or simply thought IdrA had the units to deal with his push please stop. I bet you both players made every decision in the game thinking they would win. So either way Mvp was betting on himself, he didn't "let the game go", It was a bold, beautiful, and brutal game. 5/5 | ||
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Xirdain
United States28 Posts
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Mindflow
Korea (South)320 Posts
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SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:24 mufin wrote: meh you can't judge a zvX game in that manner. on 3-4 bases+, zerg's strength comes from their 300 food push not from being slightly ahead in food count. 300 food push is day9s term for ZvP 300 food push is pretty much impossible for ZvT. If you win the engagement with your first army it's GG you win. If you lose with your first army he still has enough units to finish you off and will gain such a good position by sieging in your base that it is GG for you. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:26 FliedLice wrote: my facial expression at 19minutes: O_O how the hell do you spread your marines like that? yup probably the best micro move I have seen in the game. This is the kind of stuff we were all whining for during beta. | ||
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legendre20
United States316 Posts
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Deekin[
Serbia1713 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:01 flanksteak wrote: He has a live stream, which he provides, for everyone to see; both his wins and losses. So no, you don't get to make drive by snide comments about someone, especially when you're wrong. Wow you seem to not have any clue of what you talking about. Im not talking about his stream. Im talking about the replays that he gives to Artosis and that Artosis commentates. Its been around 5-6 videos like that where Artosis commentates Idras games and all of them he have won. So its not that exciting to watch when you know who wins. | ||
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Spectorials
558 Posts
On the other hand, MVP didn't play too well. Not as well as we have seen him play in the GSL last season. What surprises me is that Idra played SO WELL for that whole game yet it still took him 35 minutes to win... | ||
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Tschis
Brazil1511 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:34 ThaZenith wrote: 5 control groups and then manual splitting of the groups if you have time/apm to spare Actually he didn't have 5 controul groups, he did the spread manually //tx | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:52 Deekin[ wrote: Wow you seem to not have any clue of what you talking about. Im not talking about his stream. Im talking about the replays that he gives to Artosis and that Artosis commentates. Its been around 5-6 videos like that where Artosis commentates Idras games and all of them he have won. So its not that exciting to watch when you know who wins. I can understand the desire to not know who is going to win, but regardless this game exemplified a number of quality macro and micro skills that all Terran's and Zerg's should do. Yes there were mistakes, but overall it was truly a damn good game. Also, if I was Idra, I would do the exact samething. Unless the game was pure awesome, involving every faculty I could muster and ultimately being a loss at the very end due to a single error or extremely well played move by my opponent, I would not release many replay's of my losses. I would rather more replay's be out there of me winning against quality opponents, especially from a business perspective where people sponsor and pay to see winners. (As harsh as that may sound). | ||
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annYeong(o11)
Canada784 Posts
>10 marines left out of an original 30-40 -__-; | ||
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Glaxx
Germany31 Posts
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frucisky
Singapore2170 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:57 Spectorials wrote: Wow Idra played AMAZINGLY well, very few errors that I saw from Artosis' cast. On the other hand, MVP didn't play too well. Not as well as we have seen him play in the GSL last season. What surprises me is that Idra played SO WELL for that whole game yet it still took him 35 minutes to win... Sometimes it's better to just say "Terran is OP", since you're obviously not so gifted at covering up your balance whine. | ||
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Tiazi
Netherlands761 Posts
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Klamity
United States994 Posts
On February 06 2011 12:12 annYeong(o11) wrote: "OMFG one of the best splits I've ever seen" >10 marines left out of an original 30-40 -__-; Considering the odds he was up against and the fact that he survived the encounter, it was absolutely amazing. He mitigated the damage about as well as a human could have. | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On February 06 2011 12:12 annYeong(o11) wrote: "OMFG one of the best splits I've ever seen" >10 marines left out of an original 30-40 -__-; What? IdrA simply had way more units than MVP in that engagement. It's just a simple example of when good micro will not save you. If MVP didn't do that amazing split, IdrA would've had a lot more banelings left over. | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
<3<3<3 | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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Spectorials
558 Posts
On February 06 2011 12:15 Saechiis wrote: Sometimes it's better to just say "Terran is OP", since you're obviously not so gifted at covering up your balance whine. I play random. Do you think if MVP had played as well as Idra did the game would have lasted 35 mins? | ||
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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Full.tilt
United Kingdom1709 Posts
On February 06 2011 12:12 annYeong(o11) wrote: "OMFG one of the best splits I've ever seen" >10 marines left out of an original 30-40 -__-; Maybe people are talking about Idra's splitting of the banelings :D | ||
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imPERSONater
United States1324 Posts
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11133 Posts
Nevertheless, this is definitely one of the best TvZ macro games out there. | ||
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Fallen33
United States596 Posts
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
This is what the game is going to evolve into once the larger GSL maps become mainstream. I can't fucking wait. How they are able to keep their minds focused on so many different aspects of the game just blows me away. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:18 Highways wrote: Goog game, but the First Person view was much more entertaining. http://www.justin.tv/24california/b/278893657 source The best thing about that video is Idra's super strange split. =P Actually nah, it was the epic moment / feeling during the loading screen combined with the music + seeing who the opponent was. The music goes so incredibly well with the loading screen + split. | ||
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BWILLdur
United States100 Posts
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On February 06 2011 13:17 Shikyo wrote: The best thing about that video is Idra's super strange split. =P Actually nah, it was the epic moment / feeling during the loading screen combined with the music + seeing who the opponent was. The music goes so incredibly well with the loading screen + split. i love idra's taste in music | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:55 zerious wrote: MVP getting prepared for the bigger maps this guy knows what's up. | ||
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EvasivE
United States70 Posts
soo proo IdrA had 5800 people in his stream by the end and left for lunch right after winning :D so glad someone respectable got to it before HD or Husky | ||
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SpaceYeti
United States723 Posts
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Deekin[
Serbia1713 Posts
On February 06 2011 13:42 EvasivE wrote: omg i was there when it happened soo proo IdrA had 5800 people in his stream by the end and left for lunch right after winning :D so glad someone respectable got to it before HD or Husky Cant stop my urge to quote this! | ||
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Clare
United States372 Posts
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Gao Xi
Hong Kong5178 Posts
Evasive is right. MVP still played sick even if he wasn't at the top of his game. That marine splitting, + harassing was intense. | ||
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Chylo
United States220 Posts
Even playing flawlessly throughout midgame Idra almost lost again when a lot of drones were taken out. It's easy to see why zergs aren't winning tournaments or doing well in TL opens, it's just so easy to make one mistake and have 20 m/m or whatever in your base that is unrecoverable from. One bad drop, one anything and it's over. Terran loses almost the whole army multiple times and is still just one drop or one mistake from the zerg away from a win. | ||
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opki
United States20 Posts
On February 06 2011 13:56 Gao Xi wrote: Evasive is right. MVP still played sick even if he wasn't at the top of his game. That marine splitting, + harassing was intense. MVP wasn't even playing his game. That was obviously a move to read Idra's late game strat. Hope he didn't give too much away :/ | ||
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
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DonKey_
Liechtenstein1356 Posts
On February 06 2011 13:57 Chylo wrote: Idra played at the edge of a knife the entire game. One small mistake and mvp would have instantly sniped out his natural and been in his main for a gg. Other posters have pointed out that if mvp had just run up with that stim early push it would have been over, no question, especially with his micro. Lings only wouldn't stand a chance. Even playing flawlessly throughout midgame Idra almost lost again when a lot of drones were taken out. It's easy to see why zergs aren't winning tournaments or doing well in TL opens, it's just so easy to make one mistake and have 20 m/m or whatever in your base that is unrecoverable from. One bad drop, one anything and it's over. Terran loses almost the whole army multiple times and is still just one drop or one mistake from the zerg away from a win. PLEASE don't turn this into a BALANCE WHINE thread. So many good threads have devolved into them I would hate for this one to fall too. | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
I don't get why IdrA was losing faith in Zergs. In that one Interview, he basically said all Zergs are lucky to be near the end of the GSL. Clearly, IdrA has what it takes, he did a great job. Anyway, that was nice. gg. | ||
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rS.Sinatra
Canada785 Posts
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
XD | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On February 06 2011 12:12 annYeong(o11) wrote: "OMFG one of the best splits I've ever seen" >10 marines left out of an original 30-40 -__-; And how much banelings/mutas died ? Those 35 (25 in fact) marines killed like the double of their worth, yeah, that split was one of the best I've seen too. Try to survive with 25 marines against 17 banelings in that situation, you'll understand. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
No extra discrediting is needed. You say, "It was the ladder. Was a great game but it doesn't mean much. GG." That's all anybody should say about it in terms of criticism. | ||
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Gwaltgw
United States44 Posts
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SUPDAWGS
16 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:44 Holdinga wrote: Made by me =) LOL | ||
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jaeds
United States106 Posts
fun to watch, though. | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
Ohgod LOL. | ||
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GhoSt[shield]
Canada2131 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:49 MooseSoup wrote: This is absolutely an unreal game, but does anyone else think this was uncharacteristically mistake riddled for a player like IMMVP? I'm not tryin to knock Idra or anything, but do we know that this was the real IMMVP? Your trolling attempt is not amusing. It is IMMVP. That is all. | ||
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Smigi
United States328 Posts
MVP did some excellent harassment throughout the entire game. | ||
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Existential
Australia2107 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
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emc
United States3088 Posts
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iw-darins888
Canada32 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:38 Terrix wrote: How did everybody know he would cast this game? Was truely amazing o.o Suprising that it just came from the ladder, seemed like what everybody wished the finals were like every GSL SC2 FAILS and so does GSL..... User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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methematics
United States392 Posts
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pirouni
Greece31 Posts
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BasilPesto
Australia624 Posts
Me too. And yes, this is hilarious, haha. | ||
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
Since I watched that on stream, I thought it was kinda funny too that he totally missed one of the most epic moves of the game. Sucks to be those 30+ marines, can only stand there knowing they'll get re-fungalled and killed. | ||
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Genpow
United States41 Posts
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whomybuddy
United States620 Posts
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Zidane
United States1685 Posts
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On February 06 2011 16:10 whomybuddy wrote: this looks like a casual macro game. otherwise MVP would push idra's main through the rock. had a similar thought process while watching the game the game itself was still entertaining, but I'm pretty sure Idra commented that a 2 base marine / tank push through the rocks on close spawn Shakuras is extremely hard for a Zerg to stop after the Nestea vs MVP match | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On February 06 2011 16:16 Sfydjklm wrote: how is it that someone as good as mvp still doesnt realize that its impossible to catch muta harrass even with stim. You still have to stim, or your marines will get there 5 seconds later, allowing a building to die or something. He started only stiming 5-10 at a time after the first. | ||
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SoJu.WeRRa
Korea (South)820 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 06 2011 16:24 udgnim wrote: had a similar thought process while watching the game the game itself was still entertaining, but I'm pretty sure Idra commented that a 2 base marine / tank push through the rocks on close spawn Shakuras is extremely hard for a Zerg to stop after the Nestea vs MVP match It is. I am pretty sure MVP wanted to play a macro game as he's practicing not going for points. I still think MVP played to win just didn't want to abuse it wanted to practice macro probably for the new GTSL maps coming out where you won't have a way to abuse a zerg like that ^^. Whatever the reason he chose not to attack close positions works for me was an epic game :D | ||
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LoLAdriankat
United States4307 Posts
On February 06 2011 16:10 whomybuddy wrote: this looks like a casual macro game. otherwise MVP would push idra's main through the rock. Maybe MVP knew that his push would've killed IdrA, so he decided to practice his macro against one of the best macro zergs in the scene? Sounds kinda stupid, but it makes sense. When you're winning GSLs and everyone already knows how good you are, winning/losing ladder games doesn't matter. | ||
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kash2k
139 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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dlax
United States37 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On February 06 2011 16:48 LoLAdriankat wrote: Maybe MVP knew that his push would've killed IdrA, so he decided to practice his macro against one of the best macro zergs in the scene? Sounds kinda stupid, but it makes sense. When you're winning GSLs and everyone already knows how good you are, winning/losing ladder games doesn't matter. No, it makes sense. He's presumably practicing that with with teammate IMNestea (who very nearly figured out how to beat it, and will need to know how to beat it by next week). Plus I think close position Shakuras pushing, like the SCV all-in before it, is something Zerg are figuring out how to deal with, and thus is becoming weaker and weaker as Zerg are better able to slow it down and rebuild tech while Terran stays on two bases for forever. (Given Zerg's nature as a reactive race, I imagine each GSL will be plagued by a new and different unstoppable all-in until Zergs understand the game enough to know exactly how to react pretty fast, and that no map pool can save us. But now we're getting off-topic). What I really want to know if why MVP kept his tanks away from his marines all the time during that push, like he was gifting them to Idra. Also: Dat fungal. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
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whaty0uwant
New Zealand346 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
unlike 90% of the people in this topic | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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Quixxotik
United States54 Posts
This picture is exactly what I was thinking about the entire time this was happening. | ||
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
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nick1689
Australia494 Posts
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Simmtron
United States47 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:35 MaverickPL wrote: Amazing game. I wish I knew the music irdra's playing cause I love it as well. 1. Skrillex - Kill Everybody 2. Skrillex - With You Friends (Long Drive) 3. Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites (Noisia Remix) 4. Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites (Zedd Remix) 5. Skrillex - Rock N' Roll 6. Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites (Original Mix) 7. ??? (probably another Skrillex track) 8. Skrillex - All I Ask of You | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On February 06 2011 18:36 Goibon wrote: Really enjoyed Idra's use of Infestors here. Would like to know what MVP was thinking when 2 dozen of his marines all died from fungal at once. Awesome stuff. Fungal seems from a spectator pov as a seriously underused spell especially vs marines and medivacs. Problems with Infestors seems to be: low range, no hp, no armor and really expensive. And their energy doesn't come back fast enough. In the short-map, 1-battle days of SC2, there's not a huge use for them, as they can be out-micro'd. As we saw in the game, then you have to insanely multi-task, they're more useful. So, as on bigger maps, they're more viable. As for what MVP was doing, it seems pretty straight forward. The Stim-timing push was to kill the third, then kill the army that comes out to defend it. That's why he stimmed his 3 Marauders and then Scanned. Zergs normally have the army right there in that situation. MVP played that well, Idra just had things timed out differently. Zergs should normally have had the 3rd down already by that point. If they didn't, they should have gone for an army. MVP's build seemed designed to kill standard play. Idra was playing Idra standard, not really normal standard. Also, if you look back, by going to what would be Idra's 3rd, which MVP did first, it was enough time for Idra to have 3 spines and a bunch of Mutas + Lings out. The attack would have failed and not done much damage, unless he'd have blindly run in and killed the Main. He had about 30s window there, that he didn't know he had. So, MVP made the right choice to pull back, as he intended to hurt a greedy zerg on a macro map. It's a good plan and would have killed most zergs. The midgame was some insanely good harass by Idra. He probably overproduced Mutas, but they were doing some insane damage. That 15s out of position Medivacs + Seige tanks gave Idra a HUGE lead during the midgame. Since MVP wasn't expanding directly behind that push, he was in a world of hurt there. Then we got some back & forth from both players. Idra could have done a lot better breaking the outside of MVP's base there better with Ling/Bling/Muta. Then the game went to a whole separate gear. Until the 25 minute point or so, it was a solid, probably really good, Ladder-quality game. Then they both kicked up to 11. At that point, the engagements were probably "Diamond quality", if that makes sense, but there was always at least 5 of them going on constantly for the next 15 minutes. At that point, they both started making a whole lot less mistakes. Idra definitely had a lead going in, but this is probably the world's best Terran he was against that kicked it into overdrive. You don't just put them away as Zerg. Those last 20 minutes, game time, are something special. Both players are everywhere on the map, all of the time. They're both trying to deny 2 bases of the other player & defend 2 of their own at the same time for nearly 15 minutes game-time. That's insane. I highly recommend the game. The first 20 game-time minutes are good, not insanely great, but after the 20 minute mark, they're both playing at GSL Ro8+ quality. That's when it really gets insane. And, yeah, when Artosis is looking at the Broodlord, I kept yelling "Move up, move up!" to see the insane Fungal. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
Idra got an early advantage and kept it all game long very nice game by Idra indeed. | ||
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lastmotion
368 Posts
MVP should have GG'd sooner but he did manage to do a lot of damage with smaller army by doing drops everywhere | ||
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Mawi
Sweden4365 Posts
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Swarls
Australia193 Posts
Was an amazing game! | ||
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Kelekkis
Finland27 Posts
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On February 06 2011 20:03 Kelekkis wrote: IMMVP played with like 40 scvs whole game? Plus Mules. | ||
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feanor5
Bulgaria15 Posts
 ( | ||
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m0s1n0
Germany575 Posts
thank you artosis! | ||
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johax
Sweden165 Posts
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Bair
United States698 Posts
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On February 06 2011 20:23 yadunz wrote: IdrA truly shows what he means by being a good player in this game. what else is "Im really good" suppose to mean lol.. | ||
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Chanted
Norway1001 Posts
One thing that might be useful for Idra in games like these is hiding banelingsbombs at the ramp up to MVP`s 4th base in the upper right corner. Seems like everytime his mutas came close to killing it, stimmed marines came running in, with as far as I saw no scans. So maybe he could get quite a few kills the first time, and then force MVP to use more scans thus giving the mutas more time to do damage before the marinetrain arrive. | ||
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murd3r3r
Czech Republic102 Posts
On February 06 2011 20:10 feanor5 wrote: great game, nice cast Artosis, but u missed the funal growth (yeah that was like 20-30 marines died to 2 fungals :D | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
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Bobble
Australia1493 Posts
On February 06 2011 20:10 feanor5 wrote: great game, nice cast Artosis, but u missed the funal growth (It's been said before, but the Fungals on the marines doesn't really need to be seen. Yes, it's freaking awesome to see a bunch of marines dying under some green goo, but Artosis is commentating on the match, and rather than watching the marines slowly die under the Fungal Growths, he decided to watch and comment on the sneaky Brood Lord wreaking his economy. Not very entertaining, but it's something he can talk about rather than 'HOLY CRAP, LOOK AT THOSE MARINES JUST ABOUT TO DIE, JUST WAIT FOR THIS FG TO WREAK THEM!' | ||
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
On February 06 2011 21:09 HowardRoark wrote: Do you think this is game is more entertaining than the Morrow vs Kiwikaki game? Which one is that? Can you link it? | ||
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bkrow
Australia8532 Posts
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TheCrow
Norway296 Posts
On February 06 2011 21:26 bkrow wrote: That was a pretty awesome game.. MVP was pretty much behind from the start but hung in there with his incredible multitasking.. some awesome techswitches and muta harass from IdrA .. i kind of felt if MVP had committed to that 2 base/4 rax timing push when stim almost finished he would have rolled through IdrA right then but he didnt .. and the zerg master himself takes a game off the #1 man out there at the moment Yeah, I think mvp would have had him if he attacked with the timingpush, but luckily he didn't and we got an awesome game from it. And since it was only a laddergame mvp might have wanted to play IdrA in a long game for practice anyways. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 06 2011 18:48 Simmtron wrote: 1. Skrillex - Kill Everybody 2. Skrillex - With You Friends (Long Drive) 3. Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites (Noisia Remix) 4. Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites (Zedd Remix) 5. Skrillex - Rock N' Roll 6. Skrillex - Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites (Original Mix) 7. ??? (probably another Skrillex track) 8. Skrillex - All I Ask of You 7. Skrillex - Kill Everybody (Bare Noize Remix) | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On February 06 2011 09:55 zerious wrote: MVP getting prepared for the bigger maps True, but IdrA was doing this since the beta. On this weeks HuK's stream he paired up against IdrA like 5-6 times in a row (no joke, lol). HuK kept doing early funky stuff, IdrA kept leaving early game. Everyone went nuts on the stream chat nut-hugging HuK, hope people see now what was going on. | ||
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Endorsed
Netherlands1221 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 06 2011 21:45 Endorsed wrote: I don't think that was IMMVP. Probably just another terran teammate. I was pretty dissapointed in his play. Stil amazing game. He made a lot of mistakes yeah, but the marine split was really nice and his lategame harrass was pretty IMMVP-ish. In my opinion it's more likely that he just was playing kind of lazy, since yeah that first MM push doing nothing and especially the awful micro in the tank push were pretty strange. | ||
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Westy
England808 Posts
Then soon as a name like Artosis creates the thread it goes on for 18 pages! So, is it really the content admins care for? Or just the big names? Hmmm... User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On February 06 2011 21:54 Westy wrote: Haha, I love how when some random no namer open's a thread with a commentary of this game it gets locked by the admins for "no content". http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/imageuploader/ Then soon as a name like Artosis creates the thread it goes on for 18 pages! So, is it really the content admins care for? Or just the big names? Hmmm... Most of the time the admins don't have time to go watch idra's stream / vod which was like 1 hour 20 minutes and people who have like 10 posts most of the time are retards. there really was no content. it was just a VOD from idra's stream. would be like me posting for the first 20 minutes of TLO's stream (HE WAS CLICKING AND MOVING THINGS EPIC TLO) Admins did the right thing. | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
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Juaks
United States384 Posts
On February 06 2011 08:44 Holdinga wrote: Made by me =) It's funny but a bit unfair. That was the only noticeable mistake Artosis did in that long game and you should be thankful Artosis did this shout cast and shared it with the community. | ||
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Red.
Spain228 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
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feaynnewedd
Germany41 Posts
No creep spread from Idra late game at all? Looks like he completely lost focus and felt very secure after crushing that initial push... not a good game by him in my opinion after that. But MVP was already so behind that it did not really matter... Well Idra did still play well, but with absolutely NO creep spread I think he forgot about one fundamental Zerg mechanic. | ||
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IamWasted
Germany5 Posts
Very entertaining to watch! =D | ||
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keioh
France1099 Posts
On February 06 2011 22:13 Juaks wrote: It's funny but a bit unfair. That was the only noticeable mistake Artosis did in that long game and you should be thankful Artosis did this shout cast and shared it with the community. I laughed hard at that pic But when I watched the POV version, I didn't see the genius Broodlord, so thanks to Artosis, I am now aware derp. Also, when you see 20 marines under FG with 3 infestors nearby, I don't think, at this level, that it's worth watching them die even if it's entertaining. I mean, they ARE GOING to die under fungal. | ||
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Jotoco
Brazil1342 Posts
On February 06 2011 22:20 feaynnewedd wrote: + Show Spoiler + No creep spread from Idra late game at all? Looks like he completely lost focus and felt very secure after crushing that initial push... not a good game by him in my opinion after that. But MVP was already so behind that it did not really matter... Well Idra did still play well, but with absolutely NO creep spread I think he forgot about one fundamental Zerg mechanic. Oh yes, because harassing two places at once with mutas, another with Broolords, while setting up Infestor traps and defending 2~4drops, ALL AT ONCE is what you call "losing focus". He needed, like, OVER NINE THOUSAND apm to creep spread while doing this | ||
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krews
United States1308 Posts
On February 06 2011 21:17 Bobble wrote: It's been said before, but the Fungals on the marines doesn't really need to be seen. Yes, it's freaking awesome to see a bunch of marines dying under some green goo, but Artosis is commentating on the match, and rather than watching the marines slowly die under the Fungal Growths, he decided to watch and comment on the sneaky Brood Lord wreaking his economy. Not very entertaining, but it's something he can talk about rather than 'HOLY CRAP, LOOK AT THOSE MARINES JUST ABOUT TO DIE, JUST WAIT FOR THIS FG TO WREAK THEM!' it needed to be seen. you obviously saw the game live and knew what was going on already. | ||
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Swwww
Switzerland812 Posts
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Andehh
Australia10 Posts
When MVP started to slow push with tanks he was careless, losing too many tanks and medivacs. He dropped his third late, maybe he was trying to allin after delaying idra's third. It completely failed. After his push fell apart I think he started trying and placed a third and tried to drop his way back into the game. The rest of the game was a shit fight, Idra just needed a way to win. He was so far ahead when he killed the tank push and saw that he didn't take his third as early as he could have. He knew it, he just need to killing move. But since MVP is terran with his tanks, mules and super efficient marines, it's actually super hard to kill a dying terran. The supply through-out was misleding, mutalisk and banelings are very expensive per supply, compared to the cheap marines. The game was only seemed close because of this and how hard it is to actually kill a terran. This game just shows how hard it is to win as zerg. Even Artosis laughed when he saw the 40-12 worker count. MVP should have lost earlier. I am crying; I am a zerg player, but this game is ridiculous. As for Artosis I think he is easily the best SC2 commentator. He's knowledgeable, enthusiastic and hiliarious when he wants to be. He only talked about the game, he refrained from zerg instinct that alot of player have developed. It was entertaining. If I was casting I'd be sympathising with every zerg on the korean ladder and making horrible jokes about terran. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 06 2011 22:16 Red. wrote: Lets face it, maybe MVP was practicing his macro, yes, but... at the end of the day everyone wants to win games laddering or not laddering... no one loses on purpose for practice in ladder, thats what they do when practicing against their teammates imo. Amazing play by them, the stream was incredibly crowded Seems reasonable to me. Why would one progamer for whom starcraft 2 is his purpose in life at this point in time, who just won convincingly the last GSL and who's already acknowledged as best Terran care about fine tweaking his skill for following competitions? Ladder rank is way more important than that. | ||
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Neverplay
Austria532 Posts
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Aquafresh
United States824 Posts
On February 06 2011 20:03 Kelekkis wrote: IMMVP played with like 40 scvs whole game? He didn't build any planetaries so he was working with a ton of mules from all those OCs at expansions. You don't really need too many SCVs in that situation. | ||
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
On February 06 2011 23:41 danielsan wrote: Seems reasonable to me. Why would one progamer for whom starcraft 2 is his purpose in life at this point in time, who just won convincingly the last GSL and who's already acknowledged as best Terran care about fine tweaking his skill for following competitions? Ladder rank is way more important than that. game was over after IdrA crushed MVP like that losing those tanks early on and the medivacs ............. he was so behind i am impressed he held on that long ... GG IdrA | ||
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valaki
Hungary2476 Posts
Btw does anyone know the song when they sing about Idra, and it's like Eminem feat Dido - Stan? | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
On February 07 2011 00:26 valaki wrote: Awesome awesome game. Thanks Artosis. Btw does anyone know the song when they sing about Idra, and it's like Eminem feat Dido - Stan? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=190481 | ||
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BritishBeef
United Kingdom372 Posts
On February 06 2011 21:54 Westy wrote: Haha, I love how when some random no namer open's a thread with a commentary of this game it gets locked by the admins for "no content". Then soon as a name like Artosis creates the thread it goes on for 18 pages! So, is it really the content admins care for? Or just the big names? Hmmm... You mean artosis created a thread with content .. the replay casted which no-one else could have since idra doesn't give out replays only sometimes to artosis... I bet if someone had casted idra from his fpvod put some content in wouldn't have been closed either.. | ||
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25969 Posts
On February 06 2011 22:20 feaynnewedd wrote: + Show Spoiler + No creep spread from Idra late game at all? Looks like he completely lost focus and felt very secure after crushing that initial push... not a good game by him in my opinion after that. But MVP was already so behind that it did not really matter... Well Idra did still play well, but with absolutely NO creep spread I think he forgot about one fundamental Zerg mechanic. What? You base a good game on creep spread? Creep spread is like number 25 in important things for Zerg to do... it's great it something is going on but otherwise it's not important. Did you not notice the ridiculous amount of midgame harassment and harassment defense Idra was doing? | ||
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Rabbitmaster
1357 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On February 06 2011 10:12 Megaliskuu wrote: Yup I say gg every game therefore I'm the best player in the world. Get a fucking clue kid. Idra took down the best sc2 player in the world. Yeah, he did. However, winning in a tournament setting is vastly different than on the ladder. Not trying to take anything away from idra, he played great. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On February 06 2011 22:35 keioh wrote: I laughed hard at that pic But when I watched the POV version, I didn't see the genius Broodlord, so thanks to Artosis, I am now aware derp. Also, when you see 20 marines under FG with 3 infestors nearby, I don't think, at this level, that it's worth watching them die even if it's entertaining. I mean, they ARE GOING to die under fungal. He actually left one there, not sure if it was intentional. And it started attacking the stuff on its own. So Idra most likely didn't even notice his genius harrass move. | ||
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headies
United States63 Posts
He stopped making scvs at 42 and then dropped down to 35. He then stayed at 35 for the remainder of the game. I guess mules are just really good. I'm not trying to take away from how good MVP is, it just seems his macro was the reason he lost that game. | ||
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Copymizer
Denmark2080 Posts
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zakk
Poland21 Posts
Incredible micro - that marine spread at ~27 minutes game time, it was God, not MVP that did that mindblowing split, viking micro against broodlords (and general amazing broodlord defense), MMM micro, drops, saving Thors with medivacs etc... Superb macro. Amazing multitasking - drops in 3 places at once, microing his army, keeping up with macro. And he was never close to winning the game after 10 minute mark. ))) I don't get why people on TL still argue about the truth that is "terran against Z/P has to win under 15m, otherwise they're screwed". Best TL argument is "terrans have to learn to macro, that's all!" - yeah, MVP and other korean pros clearly have to learn how to macro. ))This game shows you don't need creep to crush Terran armies, even if you send your banelings like 20 seconds after lings and mutas (that first big engagement lol - no flank, banes way too late but still taking out 3/4 of the terrans defensively camped army hehe). I liked how Idra had 1k minerals and was supply blocked at 110/110 or when he had 2k+ gas and still was ahead all game long. I don't think I have to mention about 2 fungals killing like 30 marines, let alone immobilizing them so they can't run from banelings. I like that balanced spell. I think everyone's used to mutas one-shotting tanks by now, so won't cover that. So - can't wait for the larger maps to go live, aight bros? Zerg whine seems to be working. User was warned for this post | ||
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
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flanksteak
Canada246 Posts
On February 06 2011 11:52 Deekin[ wrote: Wow you seem to not have any clue of what you talking about. Im not talking about his stream. Im talking about the replays that he gives to Artosis and that Artosis commentates. Its been around 5-6 videos like that where Artosis commentates Idras games and all of them he have won. So its not that exciting to watch when you know who wins. Woops my bad, but I'd still say it's plenty exciting to watch, even if you know who wins | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:17 zakk wrote: This game perfectly shows how screwed Terran is in late game vs. zerg. Godly play by MVP and it wasn't enough, Terran was never close to winning the game except the first marauder/marine push when he decided not to attack. Incredible micro - that marine spread at ~27 minutes game time, it was God, not MVP that did that mindblowing split, viking micro against broodlords (and general amazing broodlord defense), MMM micro, drops, saving Thors with medivacs etc... Superb macro. Amazing multitasking - drops in 3 places at once, microing his army, keeping up with macro. And he was never close to winning the game after 10 minute mark. ))) I don't get why people on TL still argue about the truth that is "terran against Z/P has to win under 15m, otherwise they're screwed". Best TL argument is "terrans have to learn to macro, that's all!" - yeah, MVP and other korean pros clearly have to learn how to macro. ))This game shows you don't need creep to crush Terran armies, even if you send your banelings like 20 seconds after lings and mutas (that first big engagement lol - no flank, banes way too late but still taking out 3/4 of the terrans defensively camped army hehe). I liked how Idra had 1k minerals and was supply blocked at 110/110 or when he had 2k+ gas and still was ahead all game long. I don't think I have to mention about 2 fungals killing like 30 marines, let alone immobilizing them so they can't run from banelings. I like that balanced spell. I think everyone's used to mutas one-shotting tanks by now, so won't cover that. So - can't wait for the larger maps to go live, aight bros? Zerg whine seems to be working. you have no clue. idra had a big macro lead. And you don't think sniping tanks with mutalisk is good micro? his drop defence was also very good. get banned already please. User was warned for this post | ||
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MegaDancer
United States25 Posts
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Fabious
France17 Posts
Damn | ||
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:17 zakk wrote: This game perfectly shows how screwed Terran is in late game vs. zerg. Godly play by MVP and it wasn't enough, Terran was never close to winning the game except the first marauder/marine push when he decided not to attack. remove blinders and stop being a Terran fanboy. rewatch the game and see how long it takes MVP to finally get a third base up. | ||
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Tumor
Austria192 Posts
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Hypatio
549 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
This game was not luck, nor was it "playing around" idra had to sacrifice his army at least twice just to prevent MVP from reaching critical mass. Both players harassed eac other to death killing so many workers. 40-50 workers spread across 3-5 bases is bronze league type stuff. MVP holding on despite being outsupplied 2-1. Idra maintaining pressure despite losing hatcheries and drones CONSTANTLY. Both players microing and macroing with deitic presicion. Broodlord harass, muta Viking battles, drops, siege lines, etc... Truly an epic game. | ||
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oppS
Canada28 Posts
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cHaNg-sTa
United States1058 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:17 zakk wrote: This game perfectly shows how screwed Terran is in late game vs. zerg. Godly play by MVP and it wasn't enough, Terran was never close to winning the game except the first marauder/marine push when he decided not to attack. Incredible micro - that marine spread at ~27 minutes game time, it was God, not MVP that did that mindblowing split, viking micro against broodlords (and general amazing broodlord defense), MMM micro, drops, saving Thors with medivacs etc... Superb macro. Amazing multitasking - drops in 3 places at once, microing his army, keeping up with macro. And he was never close to winning the game after 10 minute mark. ))) I don't get why people on TL still argue about the truth that is "terran against Z/P has to win under 15m, otherwise they're screwed". Best TL argument is "terrans have to learn to macro, that's all!" - yeah, MVP and other korean pros clearly have to learn how to macro. ))This game shows you don't need creep to crush Terran armies, even if you send your banelings like 20 seconds after lings and mutas (that first big engagement lol - no flank, banes way too late but still taking out 3/4 of the terrans defensively camped army hehe). I liked how Idra had 1k minerals and was supply blocked at 110/110 or when he had 2k+ gas and still was ahead all game long. I don't think I have to mention about 2 fungals killing like 30 marines, let alone immobilizing them so they can't run from banelings. I like that balanced spell. I think everyone's used to mutas one-shotting tanks by now, so won't cover that. So - can't wait for the larger maps to go live, aight bros? Zerg whine seems to be working. LOL huge QQ post User was warned for this post | ||
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cordlc
United States360 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:17 zakk wrote: This game shows you don't need creep to crush Terran armies, even if you send your banelings like 20 seconds after lings and mutas (that first big engagement lol - no flank, banes way too late but still taking out 3/4 of the terrans defensively camped army hehe). I liked how Idra had 1k minerals and was supply blocked at 110/110 or when he had 2k+ gas and still was ahead all game long. I don't think I have to mention about 2 fungals killing like 30 marines, let alone immobilizing them so they can't run from banelings. I like that balanced spell. I think everyone's used to mutas one-shotting tanks by now, so won't cover that. No comment on the numerous tanks & medivacs lost due to MVP's careless army management? They happen to be more important than preserving the cheap marines... Hard to imagine your rant being serious, there were so many mistakes made on both sides, only one with extreme bias can draw conclusions of balance from such a game. It was great play by both Idra and MVP, but nowhere near flawless. Not that I expect it to be, with so much going on the map at once. Entertaining game, definitely | ||
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Miragee
8458 Posts
For note: Mvp played incredibly good and Idra as well. But Mvp didn't lose because of Zerg imba in Lategame. The gamedesider was much earlier in the game, were Mvp stopped his SCV production to do a 2 Base Allin. It only was ridiculous how long the game moves on, after this fail Allin and proofes Mvp's godness. | ||
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dEphria
76 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:17 zakk wrote: This game perfectly shows how screwed Terran is in late game vs. zerg. Godly play by MVP and it wasn't enough, Terran was never close to winning the game except the first marauder/marine push when he decided not to attack. Incredible micro - that marine spread at ~27 minutes game time, it was God, not MVP that did that mindblowing split, viking micro against broodlords (and general amazing broodlord defense), MMM micro, drops, saving Thors with medivacs etc... Superb macro. Amazing multitasking - drops in 3 places at once, microing his army, keeping up with macro. And he was never close to winning the game after 10 minute mark. ))) I don't get why people on TL still argue about the truth that is "terran against Z/P has to win under 15m, otherwise they're screwed". Best TL argument is "terrans have to learn to macro, that's all!" - yeah, MVP and other korean pros clearly have to learn how to macro. ))This game shows you don't need creep to crush Terran armies, even if you send your banelings like 20 seconds after lings and mutas (that first big engagement lol - no flank, banes way too late but still taking out 3/4 of the terrans defensively camped army hehe). I liked how Idra had 1k minerals and was supply blocked at 110/110 or when he had 2k+ gas and still was ahead all game long. I don't think I have to mention about 2 fungals killing like 30 marines, let alone immobilizing them so they can't run from banelings. I like that balanced spell. I think everyone's used to mutas one-shotting tanks by now, so won't cover that. So - can't wait for the larger maps to go live, aight bros? Zerg whine seems to be working. Signed. User was warned for this post | ||
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Krehlmar
Sweden1149 Posts
Gotta compliment MVPs multitasking though, drops almost undermined IdrAs economy. | ||
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Starshaped
Sweden575 Posts
Really not a special game imo. Never once did I think "OK, MVP might win this." | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On February 06 2011 12:23 Spectorials wrote: I play random. Do you think if MVP had played as well as Idra did the game would have lasted 35 mins? So what, Artosis "plays" Protoss, he still thinks Zerg is underpowered. I'm just surprised that you can judge MVP's play as bad whilst claiming IdrA played brilliantly, whereas any lesser of a Terran would've died to the 1,5 control group of mutalisk IdrA was running around. It's just interesting that you can make such claims without caring to explain what it was that maked IdrA's play AMAZING, and MVP's not too well. For the record, I think both players played a good and entertaining game, but you're stating this IdrA played better than MVP thing like there was a "good player" bar in the replay Artosis casted. I must've missed it, can you give me the time at which he brings it up? | ||
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G5
United States2873 Posts
gg greg | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:17 zakk wrote: This game perfectly shows how screwed Terran is in late game vs. zerg. Godly play by MVP and it wasn't enough, Terran was never close to winning the game except the first marauder/marine push when he decided not to attack. Incredible micro - that marine spread at ~27 minutes game time, it was God, not MVP that did that mindblowing split, viking micro against broodlords (and general amazing broodlord defense), MMM micro, drops, saving Thors with medivacs etc... Superb macro. Amazing multitasking - drops in 3 places at once, microing his army, keeping up with macro. And he was never close to winning the game after 10 minute mark. ))) I don't get why people on TL still argue about the truth that is "terran against Z/P has to win under 15m, otherwise they're screwed". Best TL argument is "terrans have to learn to macro, that's all!" - yeah, MVP and other korean pros clearly have to learn how to macro. ))This game shows you don't need creep to crush Terran armies, even if you send your banelings like 20 seconds after lings and mutas (that first big engagement lol - no flank, banes way too late but still taking out 3/4 of the terrans defensively camped army hehe). I liked how Idra had 1k minerals and was supply blocked at 110/110 or when he had 2k+ gas and still was ahead all game long. I don't think I have to mention about 2 fungals killing like 30 marines, let alone immobilizing them so they can't run from banelings. I like that balanced spell. I think everyone's used to mutas one-shotting tanks by now, so won't cover that. So - can't wait for the larger maps to go live, aight bros? Zerg whine seems to be working. User was warned for this post OMG, TERRAN COULDN'T END 2 BASE VS 4 BASE!! ZERG OP!!!! User was warned for this post | ||
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
More than once MVP brought the worker count to even despite being behind on bases. And while he lost his army on his first push, idra lost his army twice in his first two pushes. While Idra's mutalisks killed off scvs, tanks and medivacs--mvp's drops killed drones and hatcheries. While MVP managed to secure his half of the map with turrets, tanks and thors, Idra's creep spread protected the south while his mutalisks protected the north. These are all very exciting plays no matter who won in the end. It's NOT about the final outcome. That is irrelevant. It's about all those things that happened in between. That what made this game great. | ||
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Vintlocke
Netherlands18 Posts
I think Mvp lost the game early on when he lost so many tanks to IdrA's mutalisks during his slow push through the middle. It took IdrA so long to close out the game, because Mvp still managed to hurt IdrA's economy alot with his drop harassing. I think IdrA decided to make sure he didn't needlessly overcommit to an attack and risk his lead. He just made sure he stayed ahead the entire time and wore Mvp down. That makes total sense to me, because Mvp is such a good player that he'll punish you for any mistakes you make. IdrA probably realised that and didn't wanna give him that chance to get back into the game. Mvp was trying hard to accomplish that with all his harassing and trying to make IdrA slip. Which he didn't! That's why I think it was such a fun game to watch. | ||
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Sturehof
Sweden14 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
As a Terran player (who is in favor of bigger/better maps) I really think this shows how well Zergs can control of the map starting with the 10 minute~ Muta harass. I was really impressed with how well IdrA was finding every single opening and attacking MVP with it. The last thing I am saying is imbalance. I think Terrans are going to have to play differently, and have different unit compositions. I don't think saying "Terran's need to learn how to Macro" is an effective statement either. I just think that with the new bigger maps coming that 2x rack Marine might not be as popular. Right now the smaller maps favor Terran in most situations. Early game the Marine is so strong so its easier to abuse that. However you can clearly see from late game in that replay that Broodlords, infesters, making the Marines split up around the map then picking them off with 25 muta....Really makes Marines terrible option late game. I really only saw them effective for harassment drops. I'm really surprised why some pros havent looked into going more of Thor + Hellions in the army mix. Hellions are really cost effective, and it seemed like MVP never wanted to get more than 1-2 Thor with his army at any time. Shak Plat is a decent map, I hope we see more maps like it in the future. | ||
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Whiladan
United States463 Posts
On February 07 2011 02:36 Zeon0 wrote: OMG, TERRAN COULDN'T END 2 BASE VS 4 BASE!! ZERG OP!!!! Don't perpetuate the "discussion"... | ||
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Grimjim
United States395 Posts
That's either saying a lot about MVP, or a lot about ZvT. You decide which. | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
On February 07 2011 02:56 Sturehof wrote: Maybe I am wrong, but in what way was this game so epic? Great play ofc by both players, but it was never ever even close that MVP would win the match. It was just a 30+ min long Zerg stroy at shakuras?. As a Terran player I agree. Once I saw IdrA's sick play with the Muta harass I knew MVP would be running around in circles. I think it was really fun for me still is because he's American as I, and playing one of the top players in the world. But as in terms of ZVT I didn't see anything to amazing that really blew me away from either side. It's just the players names in general. | ||
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cHicKeLoR
Germany559 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:04 Grimjim wrote: Apparently MVP was behind from the very start, yet it took 35 minutes for IdrA to actually close the game? That's either saying a lot about MVP, or a lot about ZvT. You decide which. You have an interesting point but I remember IdrA saying that Zergs never want to attack until they are almost 100% sure they can take a fight. He wore MVP down with some great MUTA harass into some muta/brood lord harass. At the pro level with BETTER/BIGGER maps in the future I think we will see a lot more games like this, were players have to continually beat they're opponent all game then finally finish them. 10-minute all-in games for the majority of the games isn't fun to me. Whats the average game time in GSL like 10-13 minutes or something like that? I hope that goes way up with bigger maps. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:10 Nizzy wrote: You have an interesting point but I remember IdrA saying that Zergs never want to attack until they are almost 100% sure they can take a fight. He wore MVP down with some great MUTA harass into some muta/brood lord harass. At the pro level with BETTER/BIGGER maps in the future I think we will see a lot more games like this, were players have to continually beat they're opponent all game then finally finish them. 10-minute all-in games for the majority of the games isn't fun to me. Whats the average game time in GSL like 10-13 minutes or something like that? I hope that goes way up with bigger maps. We will definitely see a lot more zergs going for mutas. That is for sure. | ||
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ganjazerg
82 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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cHaNg-sTa
United States1058 Posts
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Grimjim
United States395 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:10 Nizzy wrote: You have an interesting point but I remember IdrA saying that Zergs never want to attack until they are almost 100% sure they can take a fight. He wore MVP down with some great MUTA harass into some muta/brood lord harass. At the pro level with BETTER/BIGGER maps in the future I think we will see a lot more games like this, were players have to continually beat they're opponent all game then finally finish them. 10-minute all-in games for the majority of the games isn't fun to me. Whats the average game time in GSL like 10-13 minutes or something like that? I hope that goes way up with bigger maps. While that would be indeed awesome for all matchups, you must admit, when a Zerg loses their army to a push, it's incredibly difficult to recover without significant loss to infrastructure. Even losing your natural to a 1 base 3 Rax push is enough to put you incredibly far behind your opponent, no matter how many SCVs he cut. I feel like Zerg just don't have the units to facilitate a push early OR mid-game that can actually do enough damage to harm an opponent, and are therefore shunted into harassment, unit exchanges and skirmishes until they severely outnumber the enemy on bases, like BW. But unlike BW, the increased power and longevity of 2 base plays and the increased weakness of 200/200 Zerg armies makes Terran and Protoss wins last about 12 minutes average, and Zerg wins go upwards to 20+ minutes, this game being the crazy exaggeration. My point being this: If IdrA was playing behind from the start, he would have lost within 12 minutes. MVP was behind, yet it took 35 minutes to lose. To me, that just doesn't seem right. All factions should have the same power early, mid, and late-game. | ||
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Sein
United States1811 Posts
On February 07 2011 02:56 Sturehof wrote: Maybe I am wrong, but in what way was this game so epic? Great play ofc by both players, but it was never ever even close that MVP would win the match. It was just a 30+ min long Zerg stroy at shakuras?. I agree with you. I think a lot of the hype comes from a foreigner beating a top Korean in a long macro game. I highly doubt it would've gotten much attention if the result of the game was the other way around. Really nicely played by Idra though. He seems to be making a steady progress toward the top since the end of Beta. | ||
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Koh
United Kingdom111 Posts
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:27 Grimjim wrote: My point being this: If IdrA was playing behind from the start, he would have lost within 12 minutes. MVP was behind, yet it took 35 minutes to lose. To me, that just doesn't seem right. All factions should have the same power early, mid, and late-game. you wanna cry imbalance just cry it out loud, don't go sneaky and far from discretely implying it. it took 35 minutes to lose as playstyle for each race is different. that's nice you can watch this aswell | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
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denzelz
United States604 Posts
The fact that MVP expo'd far away, leaving a huge space in the middle of the map for him to defend against Muta/ling/baneling makes me feel like he wasn't treating this game seriously and lost the game by this 3rd base decision. | ||
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MrWinkles
United States200 Posts
there is so much happening on ladder we don't get to see in tournaments... such a shame... glad it's been turned into a VOD!!! | ||
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MadPretty
United States101 Posts
Was an amazingly sweet game and so glad to be able to see moves on both sides. Both these doods played their asses off. | ||
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shwick
Burundi45 Posts
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
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Grimjim
United States395 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:48 danielsan wrote: you wanna cry imbalance just cry it out loud, don't go sneaky and far from discretely implying it. it took 35 minutes to lose as playstyle for each race is different. + Show Spoiler + that's nice you can watch this aswell http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFEuXYlgD1s Or I could make my point clear without jumping down to your level and spouting incoherent and non-existent arguments. How about you actually debate instead of flaming a method everyone should be using, buddy? Don't be such a tool. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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cheapfood
United States56 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:59 denzelz wrote: To analyze this game, you really have to think about why MVP did not expand to the base near Idra, between the rocks. Had MVP broke down rocks, put up a PF at that location, it will effectively divide Idra's army in half since MVP can always threaten to attack through the rocks. It would also be impossible for Idra to break MVP's front at his second base. Once MVP's 3rd is secure, he could tank push at the rocks while harrassing with Marine drops at Idra's 3rd and 4th, which is far away from his main and natural. The fact that MVP expo'd far away, leaving a huge space in the middle of the map for him to defend against Muta/ling/baneling makes me feel like he wasn't treating this game seriously and lost the game by this 3rd base decision. yeah, you're right. he didnt take this game seriously, he was just joking around. are you serious | ||
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Grimjim
United States395 Posts
On February 07 2011 05:18 AlBundy wrote: I see a lot of players complaining that a dying Terran is difficult to kill, but you need to remember one thing: there is a strategy called "turtling" in starcraft, and Terran race happens to be the best at it. You can effectively turtle with few SCVs and MULES, as well as siege & defensive units. Dropping 50 times in one game and sitting in the middle of the map, threatening to push at any time, is not turtling. MVP was defensive, but he was not turtling. Turtling is a newb strategy that never works past Diamond. | ||
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Brandus
148 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On February 07 2011 02:19 Starshaped wrote: Uh, the game was incredibly one-sided from basically the very start and only lasted long due to insane harassment by MVP. Really not a special game imo. Never once did I think "OK, MVP might win this." Agreed. Maybe its the way that Artosis cast it [in the sense of showing the screens he choose to show] but once that big infantry group turned around and went home after shooting a couple of creep tumors it seemed like Idra was in a cant loose situation. | ||
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Al Bundy
7257 Posts
On February 07 2011 05:32 Grimjim wrote: Dropping 50 times in one game and sitting in the middle of the map, threatening to push at any time, is not turtling. MVP was defensive, but he was not turtling. Turtling is a newb strategy that never works past Diamond. Ok then, he was defensive? What's wrong in having a hard time killing a player who focuses on defense? Honestly I don't understand how people can be so unreasonable over a ladder game. | ||
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radiumz0rz
United States253 Posts
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On February 07 2011 05:32 Grimjim wrote: Dropping 50 times in one game and sitting in the middle of the map, threatening to push at any time, is not turtling. MVP was defensive, but he was not turtling. Turtling is a newb strategy that never works past Diamond. Tell that to Flash rofl... | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On February 07 2011 05:30 Grimjim wrote: Or I could make my point clear without jumping down to your level and spouting incoherent and non-existent arguments. How about you actually debate instead of flaming a method everyone should be using, buddy? Don't be such a tool. If you had any understanding of the game, there would have been no discussion to begin with. You're asking for balance (even though you address it vaguely, incorporating both economy and army strenght) early, mid and lategame, something that's obtainable only in mirror matches. | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:17 ganjazerg wrote: zerg is op. User was temp banned for this post. Yeah totally. I mean, having twice the amount of bases has nothing to do with it at all. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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Lemonayd
United States745 Posts
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
Just for your information - Flash doesn't really turtle that much. He just carries the perception that he does. O.o But turtling is legit. | ||
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parn
France296 Posts
On February 07 2011 02:19 Starshaped wrote: Uh, the game was incredibly one-sided from basically the very start and only lasted long due to insane harassment by MVP. Really not a special game imo. Never once did I think "OK, MVP might win this." Same here, I'm really disappointed after watching this game, i was expecting some epic come back or something special. Not to flame but this is kinda obvious that if it wasn't an Idra replay, noone would really care about it ... and hearing the last comments of Artosis, in the end of the cast, I understand that the result is in fact more interesting than the game itself. So Idra won against MVP, good! ps: this is not meant to offend the "Idra fan club". | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
I mean IdrA was going pretty hard Muta, and that's pretty hard to end the game with (when marines and thors are running around of course). It seemed to me like his goal was to just use the mutas to get an overwhelming advantage. It seemed to be the way IdrA was playing in general: just keeping pressing his advantage harder and harder. Very cool way to play. Very cool game. | ||
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Fa1nT
United States3423 Posts
On February 07 2011 06:15 parn wrote: Same here, I'm really disappointed after watching this game, i was expecting some epic come back or something special. Not to flame but this is kinda obvious that if it wasn't an Idra replay, noone would really care about it ... and hearing the last comments of Artosis, in the end of the cast, I understand that the result is in fact more interesting than the game itself. So Idra won against MVP, good! ps: this is not meant to offend the "Idra fan club". Back and forth? Would never happen unless both players failed miserably over and over. The point of the match was IdrA surviving early game, stoping the mid game big attack, then mvp being behind but being able to hold on the next 30 minutes with unit control, waiting to see if IdrA would fuck up and give him a chance to win. That's how the game should be played, "back and forth" matches like Clide and Leenock only happen when both players are making a lot of mistakes. When both players are around the same skill level, and neither make many mistakes, it comes down to who can get the biggest lead and hold it. | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
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Mystogun
United States392 Posts
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everynne
United States20 Posts
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parn
France296 Posts
On February 07 2011 06:24 Fa1nT wrote: Back and forth? Would never happen unless both players failed miserably over and over. The point of the match was IdrA surviving early game, stoping the mid game big attack, then mvp being behind but being able to hold on the next 30 minutes with unit control, waiting to see if IdrA would fuck up and give him a chance to win. That's how the game should be played, "back and forth" matches like Clide and Leenock only happen when both players are making a lot of mistakes. When both players are around the same skill level, and neither make many mistakes, it comes down to who can get the biggest lead and hold it. You're dishonest. A come back is not about back and forth, it's about winning some small fights here and there and finally get back in the game. Why are you talking about mistakes? Most of epic games are about a player just playing perfect, and his opponent playing incredibly fine but still losing. Epic games and real comebacks are not made of mistakes, but ace moves. | ||
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Barca
United States418 Posts
Great game. IdrA definitely got some early leads that allowed him to win in the end. MVP is still a ridiculous boss though. | ||
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Svetz
Australia311 Posts
<edit> removed typo <edit> | ||
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Lysu
Austria21 Posts
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
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TheCrow
Norway296 Posts
On February 07 2011 07:26 rysecake wrote: People are making this a huge deal only because Idra won. I don't think a lot of people realize that ladder is only practice for these guys. Weird that mvp didn't push early wtih his bio army, or go through the bottom. I think its mostly a huge deal because its a fun game to watch. Tons of stuff happening all over the map. It shows great multitasking skill from both players. IdrA even said on his stream that he was lucky that he didnt get killed early game cuz he would have lost... I don't think IdrA winning is the main factor. | ||
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Turenne
331 Posts
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CWL
United States222 Posts
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BlooDAnGeL
Macedonia136 Posts
Definitely the best ZvT I've ever seen since FruitDealer's Nydus worm game in GSL finals 1. | ||
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Milith
France10 Posts
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Senorcuidado
United States700 Posts
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Kazang
578 Posts
Even though MVP put up a great fight all game long I felt like he lost the game pretty early on when he let Idra take that 4th base without having to really defend it. Idra droned up really fast then with 65+ drones on 4 bases with MVP still on 2 bases, you can't let someone as good as Idra do that and expect to win. MVP could have won it in the early game, but after that double expand it spiralled out of control for him and he was on the back foot for the rest of the game. Looks really good for the future of high level SC2 though, players can really stretch what they can do with their multitasking to make awesome looking games with skirmishes going on all over the map constantly. Makes it great to watch. | ||
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VanGarde
Sweden755 Posts
On February 07 2011 11:03 Kazang wrote: Amazing game. Even though MVP put up a great fight all game long I felt like he lost the game pretty early on when he let Idra take that 4th base without having to really defend it. Idra droned up really fast then with 65+ drones on 4 bases with MVP still on 2 bases, you can't let someone as good as Idra do that and expect to win. MVP could have won it in the early game, but after that double expand it spiralled out of control for him and he was on the back foot for the rest of the game. Looks really good for the future of high level SC2 though, players can really stretch what they can do with their multitasking to make awesome looking games with skirmishes going on all over the map constantly. Makes it great to watch. I feel that this game more demonstrates why we will not see great long TvZ's anytime soon, and it kind of all relates to the terran and larger maps thread too. TvZ is due to the fundamental designs of both races currently doomed to be heavily in zergs favor in the later game. Mutalisks, banelings, instant tech switches, larvae stacking and creep all combine with large map distances and the inherent immobility of terran to make games on large maps turn out precisely like this. Terran has to win the game early meaning terran has to go all-in really in one shape or form. When maps are so large you can't reasonably actually stop IdrA from taking a fourth with just light pressure. You need to commit substantially to kind of put you in an all-in slope and it spirals out of control from there, you can't really stop zerg from taking more bases while zerg most certainly can keep terran from taking more bases at that point. Now the game does swing back in terrans favor if you somehow get very very late into a situation where all expo's are taken and the number of mining bases diminish for both sides. But TvZ whether anyone likes it or not does not encourage macro terrans, your best chance of winning is with a 2 or 3 base allinish push. I don't like this fact at all though, but I don't see it changing unless blizzard makes changes to the way the races operate. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 07 2011 11:32 VanGarde wrote: I feel that this game more demonstrates why we will not see great long TvZ's anytime soon, and it kind of all relates to the terran and larger maps thread too. TvZ is due to the fundamental designs of both races currently doomed to be heavily in zergs favor in the later game. Mutalisks, banelings, instant tech switches, larvae stacking and creep all combine with large map distances and the inherent immobility of terran to make games on large maps turn out precisely like this. Terran has to win the game early meaning terran has to go all-in really in one shape or form. When maps are so large you can't reasonably actually stop IdrA from taking a fourth with just light pressure. You need to commit substantially to kind of put you in an all-in slope and it spirals out of control from there, you can't really stop zerg from taking more bases while zerg most certainly can keep terran from taking more bases at that point. Now the game does swing back in terrans favor if you somehow get very very late into a situation where all expo's are taken and the number of mining bases diminish for both sides. But TvZ whether anyone likes it or not does not encourage macro terrans, your best chance of winning is with a 2 or 3 base allinish push. I don't like this fact at all though, but I don't see it changing unless blizzard makes changes to the way the races operate. I disagree with you heavily. The reason you think terran can only win in the early game is because you don't know how to play a macro game vs zerg. MVP in this game honestly his biggest weakness is how late he takes his third base. If he would take his third earlier he might have won this game against idra he just waits soooo long that when his attack gets beaten it puts him behind. Terrans can play macro games vs zerg whats going to end up happening on the big maps is terrans are going to come up with timing pushes specifically to force units so that zerg can't just drone all game just like in bw. Right now most terrans don't know how to play a macro game and only all in on 2 base then when they lose say zvt is imba for zerg late game because they don't realize staying on 2 bases all game of course your going to lose. No shocker in that. Right now there are a select few good terran players out there who play macro games and beat zergs in late game situations all the time because they play for the macro game not just to win it off 2 bases then when it fails to say "terran can't play late game". If you watch the Gisado vods of the new bigger maps coming out terran has won just as much as zerg has on those maps. Isn't that crazy? They didn't all in either they played it out and won by not doing anything cheesy/gimicky/all in they just did timing attacks, drops, macro'd. You should watch the Gisado vods of the new maps before making a post that zerg on big maps are going to be heavily favored against terran. | ||
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Plutonium
United States2217 Posts
Are the Korean's talking about this match too> | ||
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Manimal_pro
Romania991 Posts
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On February 07 2011 16:58 Plutonium wrote: So I heard that the Korean commentators mentioning this recent ladder match after Idra said during group selections that he thought MVP was the best terran. Are the Korean's talking about this match too> He had a Korean message him on battlenet after the match, so it's not unheard of that some of them watch his stream. They very well might have spread word about the match/his stream on Korean message boards. | ||
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Zoia
United States419 Posts
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Clearout
Norway1060 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
On February 07 2011 03:27 Grimjim wrote: My point being this: If IdrA was playing behind from the start, he would have lost within 12 minutes. MVP was behind, yet it took 35 minutes to lose. To me, that just doesn't seem right. All factions should have the same power early, mid, and late-game. Was IdrA behind? Even the first main battle that he lost, he was still up 30 food. Maybe it was actually a win because he was keeping the Terran army's food down. But to answer your question, MVP might actually be the best starcraft player at the moment, abuse/strats aside. He simply has talent. You aren't going to finish him with just one fight. Plus I just simply think IdrA slightly outplayed him this game. EDIT: I just read a lot more posts. While it was a solid and entertain game, I must totally be missing how IdrA was so far behind/it was a comeback? This happens all the time to be in ladder. Muta's pop the game does a complete 180 in favor of the zerg until you can get legit mass anti air around your bases. IdrA lost a fight outside MVP's natural but they lost the same amount of food army and it benefited IdrA at first who was ahead in Macro. He was later behind a bit in Macro but with the Muta harass never lost map control. Because MVP is so talented he was able late game to take IdrA down to 1 base, but there was still a huge amount of Ultra... Am I blatantly missing something? | ||
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samuraibael
Australia294 Posts
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afk4lifez
United States44 Posts
On February 07 2011 16:58 Plutonium wrote: So I heard that the Korean commentators mentioning this recent ladder match after Idra said during group selections that he thought MVP was the best terran. Are the Korean's talking about this match too> yea, in fact i found artosis' youtube video that a korean posted while i was reading playxp | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On February 07 2011 20:36 Nizzy wrote: Was IdrA behind? Even the first main battle that he lost, he was still up 30 food. Maybe it was actually a win because he was keeping the Terran army's food down. But to answer your question, MVP might actually be the best starcraft player at the moment, abuse/strats aside. He simply has talent. You aren't going to finish him with just one fight. Plus I just simply think IdrA slightly outplayed him this game. EDIT: I just read a lot more posts. While it was a solid and entertain game, I must totally be missing how IdrA was so far behind/it was a comeback? This happens all the time to be in ladder. Muta's pop the game does a complete 180 in favor of the zerg until you can get legit mass anti air around your bases. IdrA lost a fight outside MVP's natural but they lost the same amount of food army and it benefited IdrA at first who was ahead in Macro. He was later behind a bit in Macro but with the Muta harass never lost map control. Because MVP is so talented he was able late game to take IdrA down to 1 base, but there was still a huge amount of Ultra... Am I blatantly missing something? You're misunderstanding the point of the post you quoted. He's saying IdrA was ahead at around the 12 minute mark, that lead only grew, but the current state of ZvT gives us this "epic" match because Zerg doesn't have the power to finish a good Terran for 30+ more minutes when he has an advantage. Had IdrA been behind at the 12 minute mark, we'd have seen a 15 minute game because Zerg doesn't have the power to turtle up either. | ||
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Drazzzt
Germany999 Posts
MVP was behind quite a while mainly due to idra's beautiful beautiful muta harrass (tank/medivac snipes) and due to the careless play of mvp during the early game. The brood lord harrass was also quite nice, even though I am not fully sure if it was really worth it, but i guess yes. Just to occupy mvp for a bit. But then MVPs great great skill showed during his multiple dropship play and his resiliency. Terrans are always so hard to kill (at least for zerg). Plus: I definitely think that macro games will be possible for terran (who says that late-game dropship play isnt viable and necessary to slow down the zerg eco?). I guess there is still room for improvement (especially regarding infestor play), but the game was looking really advanced... | ||
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Sewi
Germany1697 Posts
Great game. Mvp did some great harassment even during big battles | ||
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Morphs
Netherlands645 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
If MVP had won during any point after he lost that push completely, it would have been because Idra made a msitake that allowed him to win. Sure there was a lot of stuff going on the whole match, but at no point did MVP turn his losing position into an even one. Like others have said, if MVP had killed Idra's army at the 12 minute mark, the match would have been 15 minutes long. | ||
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YakiSOBA
30 Posts
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Mr_Kyo
United States269 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Idra was way ahead and there just wasn't a way to finish Mvp. The last 70% of the game was just Idra trying to finish it. Mvp did a good job with what he had though. | ||
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cilinder007
Slovenia7251 Posts
On February 08 2011 00:36 fdsdfg wrote: I didn't find this match epic at all. Idra won the game at around 12 minutes. All he had to do was not mess up and eventually his advantage would turn into a win. He did so safely, and due to the nature of TvZ, he had to basically wait until all of Terran's bases were mined out. If MVP had won during any point after he lost that push completely, it would have been because Idra made a msitake that allowed him to win. Sure there was a lot of stuff going on the whole match, but at no point did MVP turn his losing position into an even one. Like others have said, if MVP had killed Idra's army at the 12 minute mark, the match would have been 15 minutes long. actualy if MVP killed idras army at the 12 min mark, the games would be over at 12 mins | ||
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Koh
United Kingdom111 Posts
(I absolutely loved the game and the commentary, I subscribed to Artosis's channel because he told me to ) | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5409 Posts
He's not known as the best player in the world because he's incapable of making a comeback, especially one that could have been pretty reasonable in this game. ^^ Still, mistakes from both sides, of course... | ||
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
Seemed like a bad decision by IMMVP not to push through the "smiley face" expansion between the bases, as that would have been an efficient way to pin Idra's mutas to his base and allow for an earlier third. The mid-game contain/push that IMMVP was attempting to set up would have done the same thing to Idra's mutas, but some careless army positioning allowed his medivacs and tanks to get sniped for free and the contain/push failed, and the mutas harrassed him to death. | ||
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
On February 08 2011 01:17 A3iL3r0n wrote: Fun game! Seemed like a bad decision by IMMVP not to push through the "smiley face" expansion between the bases, as that would have been an efficient way to pin Idra's mutas to his base and allow for an earlier third. The mid-game contain/push that IMMVP was attempting to set up would have done the same thing to Idra's mutas, but some careless army positioning allowed his medivacs and tanks to get sniped for free and the contain/push failed, and the mutas harrassed him to death. at about 14 minute mark (game time not youyube video time) IdrA snipes 2 medivacs and 2 siege tanks with his mutas (and 1 more medivac 30 secs later) this means less pressure and easier expanding I am impressed MVP resisted this long being 2 bases down (again IdrA denied his third for as long as he could with his mutas) Bottomline, game was over after MVP's blunder losing 3 medivacs and 2 tanks | ||
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BleaK_
Norway593 Posts
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Aragos
France182 Posts
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MangoTango
United States3670 Posts
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MindRush
Romania916 Posts
On February 08 2011 03:10 MangoTango wrote: At the end, loser has exactly 0 supply. Hilarious. you can say MVP, it's not exactly a spoiler at this point | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On February 08 2011 01:31 MindRush wrote: at about 14 minute mark (game time not youyube video time) IdrA snipes 2 medivacs and 2 siege tanks with his mutas (and 1 more medivac 30 secs later) this means less pressure and easier expanding I am impressed MVP resisted this long being 2 bases down (again IdrA denied his third for as long as he could with his mutas) Bottomline, game was over after MVP's blunder losing 3 medivacs and 2 tanks Yep, exactly. I think the contain/push would've been easier going through the "smiley face" expansion route, being shorter, the narrower passage disallowing any ground army flanking (making the tanks more effective as well), and he could've expanded to the smiley face immediately (making a PF there as well would make the push even stronger, plus the turrets being built there would have defended his smiley expo and push simultaneously). | ||
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Shinobi1982
1605 Posts
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Von
United States363 Posts
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Sh0guni
Finland126 Posts
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Red.
Spain228 Posts
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Martin.435
5 Posts
On February 06 2011 04:35 MaverickPL wrote: Amazing game. I wish I knew the music irdra's playing cause I love it as well. search skrillex - kill everybody and rock n roll as well as scary monsters and nice sprites. | ||
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Loljke
Ukraine246 Posts
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vradovic
United States293 Posts
http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145997-1v1-protoss-xelnaga-caverns User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
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IPS.ZeRo
Germany1142 Posts
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Axeinst
Belize281 Posts
And besides that, the game was pretty one sided, MVP just refused to leave or he had no idea that he had already lost the game long before it ended. | ||
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
On March 04 2011 10:04 vradovic wrote: is this real Idra ? http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/145997-1v1-protoss-xelnaga-caverns thank you for bumping a thread with a pvp replay and asking if that's the real idra | ||
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vradovic
United States293 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5710 Posts
On March 04 2011 10:07 Axeinst wrote: I dont understad what is so great with this game? I calculated all the drops in that 40 minutes game, and there was like 4 drops and only 1 or 2 of them was considered real "drop job" other than harass with one marine. There really was not noticeable multitasking action in the map. And besides that, the game was pretty one sided, MVP just refused to leave or he had no idea that he had already lost the game long before it ended. So you're saying this game sucked because there weren't enough drops for you? Apparently missed all the other amazing action that happened and this was one of the best games ever. I didn't wan't to open new thread Then don't bump this old thread and waste our time. Go to the March Starcraft2 Discussion thread, or the February one if the March one isn't created yet. | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On March 04 2011 10:07 awu25 wrote: thank you for bumping a thread with a pvp replay and asking if that's the real idra well idra did play protoss before, but yea bumping this thread for that question was entirely pointless lol. | ||
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vradovic
United States293 Posts
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ReaperX
Hong Kong1758 Posts
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awu25
United States2003 Posts
EDIT: and the fact that you can click to his b.net profile | ||
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Axeinst
Belize281 Posts
On March 04 2011 10:10 Zooper31 wrote: So you're saying this game sucked because there weren't enough drops for you? Apparently missed all the other amazing action that happened and this was one of the best games ever. Then don't bump this old thread and waste our time. Go to the March Starcraft2 Discussion thread, or the February one if the March one isn't created yet. People just hype this game because it was Idra vs MVP. There was not really any noticeable multitasking around the map, or anything else fancy what would deviate this game from average games in idras level. If that game was between "no names", no one would see anything great in this match even if it was identical to this. | ||
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Pandain
United States12985 Posts
On March 04 2011 10:13 vradovic wrote: yes but answer me then and let this topic die :D Considering you uploaded it....wouldn't you know? Anyway, truth to say I never felt it was that epic of a game. I mean, sure there were some drops and some nice fungals and it was a nice game, but it didn't really have that epic quality to it. IT wasn't that back and forth, MVP could've killed Idra early on. It's a good game, but not the best I've ever seen. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
Great job man, wish you tons of continued success in your life. | ||
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vradovic
United States293 Posts
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Ironsights
United States196 Posts
Must admit...left bitter tastes in my mouth...I struggle against zerg too and seeing such a VALIANT effort from the terran hero...all for nothing. It hurt. That and I like seeing idra lose...meh. still...absolutely amazing game. well played on all sides. Thanks for casting it. | ||
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