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This Bug is fixed now
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=186399
Hello fellow TLers,
LT is in fact imba because you can tell the zergs spawn position without scouting since you can/cant see flowers at their starting position.
This works for all spawn positions - settings can be on medium/high or ultra i dont know about the exact shaders terrain settings but it was confirmed many times that it works with medium and above.
+ Show Spoiler +Video explaining the bug: thanks AskJoshy SS Lost Temple: + Show Spoiler +It actually works on any "jungle themed map that has flowers at the starting location" SS: tempest + Show Spoiler +the GSL actually made a custom LT map and removed all flowers so everyone gets fair games and all that within 2 days. Good Job GSLSS Nestea games LT w/o flowers + Show Spoiler +An official Blizzard guy actually posted in the Bug report so there is no need to bump the threads but maybe you should add additional info if you find out new stuff about the bug or add your general thoughts about it. Blizzard Dude Nexii
Thanks for the reports guys! =) Posts on the Blizzard Forums about itBugsection + Show Spoiler +General + Show Spoiler +
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263 Posts
Nice catch, they should definitely fix this asap.
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Maybe I don't understand but wouldn't you still have to go into their base to see the flowers?
edit: I'm an idiot, its through the fog >.>
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I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
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I hope they fix this asap.
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They should take it out this second, I wouldn't even mind.
ZvZ is the only funny match up on that map.
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On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
as a Zerg i wouldn't cry myself to sleep if they did that
also it would return when they have fixed it if there is a bug
hope it get's reported asap to Blizzard if it's true
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Yeah. They should fix it. Blizzard please remove LT from the map pool in order to fix this like you did with Shakuras(?). Don't bother bringing this one back when you have fixed it though.
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I just tested it on low but the flowers don't show up regardless of whether a Zerg is there or not.
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On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
lol:D
nice find really
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This used to happen with doodad trees in some other maps (Desert Oasis?) during the beta and was quickly fixed, I am surprised it took this long for someone to notice the same happens in lotem. One can only hope it gets fixed asap.
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On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
i really doubt it. LT is a classic, and what about the fucking cliff 
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I tested it in a custom game vs ai, on medium settings the flowers still show up whether creep is there or not.
edit: tested again, looking closely looks like OP is right. !
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lol  this is pretty hilarious ^_^ epic fail...
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just LT or other maps too?
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Working as intended lol
Honestly though, I wonder how stuff like this happens? the creep doesn't spread that far out at the start does it? I never play zerg so I wouldn't know.
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Wow sick I want to use it but I probably won't. Also fix this ASAP so im not tempted.
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Who pay attention to flowers ?
Die hippie !
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On January 15 2011 03:47 Leviwtf wrote:
Working as intended lol
Honestly though, I wonder how stuff like this happens? the creep doesn't spread that far out at the start does it? I never play zerg so I wouldn't know.
It spreads far beyond the gas
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Great find! Blizzard'll fix this real soon & they will probably remove it from map pool for a little while.
...wait... my improved Thor drop build is useless now! 
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wow makes me cry zerg tears
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United States17042 Posts
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On January 15 2011 03:47 Leviwtf wrote:
Working as intended lol
Honestly though, I wonder how stuff like this happens? the creep doesn't spread that far out at the start does it? I never play zerg so I wouldn't know.
The creep starts at max spread.
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just loaded up custom game against ai.. was able to correctly guess spawn position 3 of 3 games.
pretty interesting.. you are a pretty big nerd for finding this out though
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Does this apply to low graphics as well?
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The expo on the right side of blistering sands also does this, there is a tree that dies when creep gets to it and you can see it even with fog of war. Not THAT bad compared to this LT issue.
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Ahhhhhh... Sweet. How about we keep this on the down low, guys =P Like it really matters I guess. Some people never bother scouting in the first place against Zerg sometimes.
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wasn't this bug even fixed in an earlier patch or something? I remember reading a thread about this like two or three months ago, i thought it was fixed soon after that. This bug doesn't only apply to LT, but to any map that has such grass doodads that puff off in smoke when covered by creep.
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Lol well that sucks for Zerg. Very nice catch.
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On January 15 2011 03:49 lambnrice wrote:
wow makes me cry zerg tears
I guess you could say I'm crying Zerg tears as well. =(
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United States3748 Posts
How did you find this? I never pay attention to things like whether a base has flowers or not. lol. Nice catch either way.
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Calgary25966 Posts
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someone tell this to GOM so they remove Lost Temple from the map pool!
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o.o i'm a sad zerg now.
pls fix this soon blizzard!!!
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Sweden16951 Posts
Awesome find! Can't believe no one has noticed until now (or maybe someone have but decided to keep it to himself ).
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oh, wow, great catch. I never would have noticed this myself...
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Good thing I already have LT voted off! :D
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Wow, awesome catch. Excellent work.
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On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
THIS!!!
LT removed!!!! Please!
Python added!
This does totally suck though. I guess theres no point hiding my ovie!
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Wow... that is ridiculous, how did you figure that out? lol
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How did you notice that? o.O
Nice Find!
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I wonder if this would be taken into consideration in GSL vs zergs until it gets fixed.
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Should have just reported this to blizzard instead of telling everyone first. God damn now i have to have a bigger disadvantage on LT.
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Neat trick haha. Should be patched asap.
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On January 15 2011 03:47 Leviwtf wrote:
Working as intended lol
Honestly though, I wonder how stuff like this happens? the creep doesn't spread that far out at the start does it? I never play zerg so I wouldn't know.
Yeah it does spread out that far from spawn
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you could use this to technically see if they've expanded at random locations as well as creep would kill the flora anywhere.. so they should change how fog of war mechanics work..?
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Whoa, that's crazy! Good catch, hope they fix it soon.
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On January 15 2011 04:11 Foreplay wrote:
Should have just reported this to blizzard instead of telling everyone first. God damn now i have to have a bigger disadvantage on LT.
Unless it's ZvZ!
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That's actually a pretty cool find.
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I wonder if this will have the same effect when spreading creep..
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omfg... this is legit. I'm so angry @ blizzard right now.
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Wow, I could be really obviously maphacking without actually maphacking. I guess you can get banned for exploits though.
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On January 15 2011 04:12 Whomp wrote:
you could use this to technically see if they've expanded at random locations as well as creep would kill the flora anywhere.. so they should change how fog of war mechanics work..?
This is actually a big deal if that does do it. No more scouting against zerg expos necessary if thats the case.
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holy crap nice find. it would just be cooler to have plants grown on the creep exept the colors would be rendered to a more red purple lol like they do when creep touches trees on jungle bsin
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Wow, VERY nice catch man.
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they actually patched this in the beta. Its probably back from a new patch tho
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2 gate incomming zergs. Fear me!!!
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I am wondering how many people that knew about it and just said nothing, using it to an advantage.
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sick time to exploit this before they patch it
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Awesome discovery. Hope they fix that since I already hear threats of 2 gates from jimminy_kriket.
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On January 15 2011 04:31 Galneryus wrote:
Awesome discovery. Hope they fix that since I already hear threats of 2 gates from jimminy_kriket.
In base 2 gate no less!
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ROFL
does anyone know if there are any doodads within starting creep distance on any other maps? I'll have to check the other ones when I'm able to play.
LT down, DQ up I guess.
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This is actually huge. Blizzard better get this fixed ASAP.
Until then should tournaments actually consider removing LT from their map pool? This is a massive disadvantage for Zerg players after all.
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On January 15 2011 04:28 Illva wrote:
they actually patched this in the beta. Its probably back from a new patch tho
I thought the patch in beta was about actually seeing creep around trees and stuff, not flowers disappearing.
I can confirm that this is visible on all start locations on LT.
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sick time to exploit this before they patch it
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thanks will put this in the OP would have reported it myself but i couldnt because i only have an EU account and blizzard doesnt really care about the EU forums 
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On January 15 2011 03:46 Puosu wrote:
This used to happen with doodad trees in some other maps (Desert Oasis?) during the beta and was quickly fixed, I am surprised it took this long for someone to notice the same happens in lotem. One can only hope it gets fixed asap.
It happend on Kulas Revine, Blizzard fixed this pretty quick back then(if I remember correctly)
Nice find, hope this gets fixed asap.
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I wonder how many people already knew about this and were using it to their advantage.
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Guess I have to veto until they fix it .
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On January 15 2011 04:50 vdek wrote:
I wonder how many people already knew about this and were using it to their advantage.
I wouldn't say very many. But that's just me.
Time to unveto Lost Temple! .....for while.
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They had this problem in the beta too...
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im actually really surprised no one noticed this till now... Lol
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god damn
haven't they done this before? they're constantly patching terrain so that it doesn't give away the zerg's position. it used to show the creep-ified foliage through the fog of war, and now it's textures.
well at least what is giving the zerg away is less significant with every patch.
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wow thats a surprisingly huge bug
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Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you coukdäve reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me.
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On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you coukdäve reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me.
wow...just wow :D
nice troll
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On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you could've reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll
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I posted my opinion, it is my right.
Do not critizise it.
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More reason to play on fancy graphics I guess.
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yeah im sure no one cares
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On January 15 2011 04:28 Illva wrote:
they actually patched this in the beta. Its probably back from a new patch tho
IIRC the problem in the beta was on Kulas Ravine with trees in the corner dying. Sorry if this was actually fixed here too, but I don't remember hearing about it anyway.
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I don't quite understand how the game is allowing you to see information you haven't seen. Why would the engine do this?
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On January 15 2011 04:38 BlasiuS wrote:
ROFL
does anyone know if there are any doodads within starting creep distance on any other maps? I'll have to check the other ones when I'm able to play.
LT down, DQ up I guess.
I tried to see if there was something like that on Shakuras Plateu or Metalopolis and thought for a second that I could see it on Metalopolis (two empty spots had large cracks around minerals, the one with the zerg had barely any cracks), but it was just how the spawn locations actually looked with or without zerg on them.
Looking at the possible new GSL maps, 1 or 2 of them might have the same problem.
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On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you coukdäve reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll
The most annoying thing about the word "troll" is that people will use it in all the wrong ways if they have nothing actually useful to say, especially when they lose an argument (in which case they start calling the winning debater a troll).
Anyway, I guess I'm vetoing LT out of the map pool. I hated that map enough anyway. It's surprising that this bug went this far without being made public.
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On January 15 2011 05:11 Numy wrote:
I don't quite understand how the game is allowing you to see information you haven't seen. Why would the engine do this?
Well I don't know for sure, but it definitely seems like an unintended consequence of letting you see the terrain without first scouting. I guess they never took doodads into account. First on Kulas and now here
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On January 15 2011 05:09 Dakk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you could've reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll ? I posted my opinion, it is my right. Do not critizise it.
criticizing your opinion is everyone else's right in that case.
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On January 15 2011 03:46 Puosu wrote:
This used to happen with doodad trees in some other maps (Desert Oasis?) during the beta and was quickly fixed, I am surprised it took this long for someone to notice the same happens in lotem. One can only hope it gets fixed asap.
probably because the flowers are so not seen... where as trees... ya...
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On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
its Lost Temple, im pretty sure we can all say that map will n ever be taken out. but yea that should be fixed.. def unfair advantage
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On January 15 2011 05:13 rbx270j wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:09 Dakk wrote:On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you could've reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll ? I posted my opinion, it is my right. Do not critizise it. criticizing your opinion is everyone else's right in that case.
Well, he doesent have to accuse me of being a person that lies and annoys people for my own plaesure.
I am not a troll.. What i posted is how i truly feel.
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On January 15 2011 05:11 Numy wrote:
I don't quite understand how the game is allowing you to see information you haven't seen. Why would the engine do this?
It's just how peer to peer multiplayer works. All information exists in memory on each client, it's up to the client to hide things from you that you shouldn't be able to see. The problem in this case is that Blizzard overlooked the fact creep destroys doodads through fog of war without having vision.
The fact everything is in memory is also why maphacks are so easy to make.
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Wow, tried a custom game against a friend of mine and proxied 2 gates. Easily won. BLIZZARD FIX THIS!!!
This is huge!
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On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you coukdäve reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll
I don't think you know what that means..
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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On January 15 2011 05:18 Dakk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:13 rbx270j wrote:On January 15 2011 05:09 Dakk wrote:On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you could've reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll ? I posted my opinion, it is my right. Do not critizise it. criticizing your opinion is everyone else's right in that case. Well, he doesent have to accuse me of being a person that lies and annoys people for my own plaesure. I am not a troll.. What i posted is how i truly feel.
I suggest you think things through for a bit.
If the people are not informed, urgency will not be issued on behalf of the community and Blizzard will never see their mistake.
Word travels fast, even when trying to contain it, if he didn't say anything and told Blizzard about it, someone would have picked it up eventually or be spread in another fashion and the same outcome would occur.
Don't condemn someone for informing the public because of the collateral damage it may cause. It's necessary to eventually fix what is truly "stupid"
Don't take this out of context please.
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easiest fix is to remove the flowers from the starting locations. still amazed that things like this still exist, but hopefully blizzard reacts quickly. I'm sure there was a collective "oh shit" moment in their office.
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now no zerg will play in LT until patch is up :p
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On January 15 2011 05:18 vek wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:11 Numy wrote:
I don't quite understand how the game is allowing you to see information you haven't seen. Why would the engine do this? It's just how peer to peer multiplayer works. All information exists in memory on each client, it's up to the client to hide things from you that you shouldn't be able to see. The problem in this case is that Blizzard overlooked the fact creep destroys doodads through fog of war without having vision. The fact everything is in memory is also why maphacks are so easy to make.
So the information is always there, the problem is that it's not hiding doodads that are destroyed through creep. I guess that's an understandable thing to miss.
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On January 15 2011 05:10 onbaton wrote:
yeah im sure no one cares
Which explains the 5 pages of
"Nice find!" and "Wow crazy!" and "How did you notice that? Blizz better fix it!"
Anyone know what settings it is noticeable on? I wanna test this out, Is it possibly ultra terrain?
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Its visible on medium settings, on mpy PC, but my friend doesnt see it on low settings on his PC.
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On January 15 2011 05:25 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:18 Dakk wrote:On January 15 2011 05:13 rbx270j wrote:On January 15 2011 05:09 Dakk wrote:On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you could've reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll ? I posted my opinion, it is my right. Do not critizise it. criticizing your opinion is everyone else's right in that case. Well, he doesent have to accuse me of being a person that lies and annoys people for my own plaesure. I am not a troll.. What i posted is how i truly feel. I suggest you think things through for a bit. If the people are not informed, urgency will not be issued on behalf of the community and Blizzard will never see their mistake. Word travels fast, even when trying to contain it, if he didn't say anything and told Blizzard about it, someone would have picked it up eventually or be spread in another fashion and the same outcome would occur. Don't condemn someone for informing the public because of the collateral damage it may cause. It's necessary to eventually fix what is truly "stupid"
The thread has also managed to potentially break any ZvX on LT. Yeah, word travels fast but the report function is there for a reason. New things don't become known automatically, just look at the magic box. Wasn't before a thread and youtube video was made after release it became common knowledge, yet a few people knew it since early beta.
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there were several maps that had this problem before LT might have slipped through everyones eyes till now.
edit: thought they had fixed that along with the nexus and mule problem, oh well. Just remember don't make flowers or other doodads that are destroyed by creep near expos when mapping.
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It would be funny if someone get accused of maphack and get banned from b.net beacuse he was looking in the fog of war searching for flowers.
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As a Terran player even I feel ashamed that this exists =\
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I bet you feel like a badass for finding this don't you? Nice work though, I hate this map and maybe they'll take it out for awhile.
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OH SNAPS.... That sucks.......... Cause Its good this issue gets exposure, but for the time being everybody is now going to use this... lol
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On January 15 2011 05:28 vyyye wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 05:25 Torte de Lini wrote:On January 15 2011 05:18 Dakk wrote:On January 15 2011 05:13 rbx270j wrote:On January 15 2011 05:09 Dakk wrote:On January 15 2011 05:04 FarbrorAbavna wrote:On January 15 2011 05:02 Dakk wrote:
Wow, i really do hope that they will fix this issue very soon.
I got to tell you that it was reallt stupid of you to post it here really. Now there are alot of people here that are aware of the bug now.
Instead, you could've reported the bug, waited for them to fix it, and then tell us here about it.
Thx for ruining a few potential ladder games for me. wow...just wow :D nice troll ? I posted my opinion, it is my right. Do not critizise it. criticizing your opinion is everyone else's right in that case. Well, he doesent have to accuse me of being a person that lies and annoys people for my own plaesure. I am not a troll.. What i posted is how i truly feel. I suggest you think things through for a bit. If the people are not informed, urgency will not be issued on behalf of the community and Blizzard will never see their mistake. Word travels fast, even when trying to contain it, if he didn't say anything and told Blizzard about it, someone would have picked it up eventually or be spread in another fashion and the same outcome would occur. Don't condemn someone for informing the public because of the collateral damage it may cause. It's necessary to eventually fix what is truly "stupid" The thread has also managed to potentially break any ZvX on LT. Yeah, word travels fast but the report function is there for a reason. New things don't become known automatically, just look at the magic box. Wasn't before a thread and youtube video was made after release it became common knowledge, yet a few people knew it since early beta.
you can argue the other way around as well. I can say now everyone knows about this bug and can downvote lost temple to prevent themselves from being cheated. You dont know how many people are and were abusing this already - so if everyone is informed everyone can downvote the map also i feel like if it isnt public its very likely that blizzard will ignore the topic for a very long time. If its public and possibly game breaking they have to act fast.
/E looks like Blizzard has to rework like 3-4 maps in order to fix this or they have to remove/fix this doodad.
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wow even the Illuminati would have trouble catching that one, kudos to whoever found this!
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Have to agree with some other posters that said this should be submitted as a bug but not posted on the forums, which will exponentially increase the exploitation of it. That said, I'd probably be too tempted if I found something like this and do the same thing
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dang. nice catch. although realistically the Zerg's opponent is still goin to have to scout anyways to check build orders and such. but I can see this being really gay for cheese :\
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Someone should inform Gomtv so they won't use it in XvZ
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I think LT will be take off the ladder pool, until they have time to fix this. It's Shakuras all over again
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Nothing new...
They havent fix the mules through fog yet... and it was like that in beta.
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This is a big advantage for any XvZ. Time for new maps ffs.
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Just out of curiosity is this all flowers on the whole base for LT or just the ones next to the minerals as shown in the pictures? If its just the ones near the minerals as shown in the pictures you should be able to see creep by that point.
+ Show Spoiler +That is unless this bug/glitch/misfortune affects expansions too. Ie. A zerg starts morphing a hatchery at another main base and it makes the flowers disappear before the creep gets there.
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Let's hope they fix this by removing every jungle themed map from the pool... JB, steppes, LT. Throw DQ in there, and you got a decent map pool left.
jokes aside, they better fix this quite fast, shouldnt exactly be a hard fix to just remove those flowers completely...
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This pretty awesome, man its also kind of lame if u play zerg lol. Nevertheless have you posted this on blizard forums?
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On January 15 2011 05:53 Shadrak wrote:Have to agree with some other posters that said this should be submitted as a bug but not posted on the forums, which will exponentially increase the exploitation of it. That said, I'd probably be too tempted if I found something like this and do the same thing
As a zerg player I cannot disagree more. If this is the final straw needed to remove this sorry excuse for a map from the map pool then so be it. In fact, this thread should be spotlighted and the OP given major props for not keeping this to himself.
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A common tactic for getting things fixed is to bring it out in the open.
Companies are forced to fix stuff when everyone abuses it.
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I suggest you think things through for a bit.
If the people are not informed, urgency will not be issued on behalf of the community and Blizzard will never see their mistake.
Word travels fast, even when trying to contain it, if he didn't say anything and told Blizzard about it, someone would have picked it up eventually or be spread in another fashion and the same outcome would occur.
Yes, but it wouldn't have been made known now. It would have been tomorrow. Or months from now.
I could understand releasing this if it was reported to Blizzard a month or so ago and nothing has been done. It's often useful to do this kind of thing to prompt action when the programmers are dragging their feet. But unless he reported it first, some time ago, it's just irresponsible.
One of Google's employees discovered an IE exploit recently. Rather than informing Microsoft, he decided to inform everyone. Which means that Microsoft never got the chance to patch the exploit and keep people safe. This, much like the OP, is irresponsible.
Right now, Lost Temple is unplayable as a Zerg. There's really no point. Zerg were already susceptible to cheese, and now that the opponent doesn't even have to scout? That's only going to get worse.
This was irresponsible.
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kind makes sense the creep is killing the poor trees.
On a serious note, no one posted in the bug section of blizz forum, just the general one ....
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This better be fixed before everyone finds out about it.
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Tested and yeah it works.... goddamnit :/
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Owww, no Zergs in Jinros group tomorrow. This is so unfortunate
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On January 15 2011 06:08 Lennon wrote:
This better be fixed before everyone finds out about it.
Problem with that is, this thread is great for raising an issue so it can get fixed, but it's only so long until douchebags come around and abuse it.
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thats pretty crazy to actually notice
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you have amazing attention to detail to catch this
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Clearly zerg is unplayable if you know their spawning location T.T Stop the QQ about LT my life is my imba, good bug find and thanks for reporting it
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Time to abuse the fuck out of this :D
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If they remove this map I will have a free downvote for Jungle Basin! Yay!
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Ya after this they should also fix that cliff
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Just another reason to thumb down LT as a zerg = /
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i hope hotfix is incoming, nice catch OP
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I'm sure one of the designers did it on purpose and is abusing that since the very start.. haha!
Just kidding, obviously.
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Shit dude, good eyes and props for not keeping it to yourself. I dont see why blizz didn't look for this kind of stuff before beta tbh, general QA stuff really.
*logs onto sc2 to take out LT from map pool*
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NOOO NO MORE auto wins on LT
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On January 15 2011 07:08 Slix36 wrote:
Shit dude, good eyes and props for not keeping it to yourself. I dont see why blizz didn't look for this kind of stuff before beta tbh, general QA stuff really.
*logs onto sc2 to take out LT from map pool*
Probably because it's one of these things that's really hard to spot...
Millions have been playing this map for months and it's just been spotted.
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Damnit, now they are going to remove even more maps do to bugs with no explanation or timetable on when they will be back. (Take note of Shakuras Plateau)
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I wonder how big of an advantage it is to have 1 more worker mining instead of scouting? hmmmmmMMMMM
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I've been using this for months... damn!
Also works to check for possible expansions late game. =/ it's pretty cheesy.
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On January 15 2011 07:22 Frozne wrote:
I've been using this for months... damn!
Also works to check for possible expansions late game. =/ it's pretty cheesy.
u r kidding, right?
hope this gets fixed soon. too many people already know about it.
off topic: first post. Hey gus
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well this helps stopping a six pool
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On January 15 2011 07:22 BoTmon wrote:
I wonder how big of an advantage it is to have 1 more worker mining instead of scouting? hmmmmmMMMMM
I wonder how much of an advantage it is to know immediately where your opponent is at the start of the game, and therefore do a blind proxy 2 gate when the zerg would not expect it at all since he has not been scouted yet and won't expect it on a 4 player map. hmmmm
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On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool.
yes a reason to kick LT out of Map pool 4get fixing it.
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So... I read the first 3 pages of replies and around 50% of them are "Good catch bro!!!", "Nice Catch YO!!!," "I just wanted to add another post to my post count so people will take my posts more serious, good catch homie!!!"
It made me not want to read the remaining 5 pages of (possibly) constructive input.
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On January 15 2011 07:20 avidday04 wrote:
Damnit, now they are going to remove even more maps do to bugs with no explanation or timetable on when they will be back. (Take note of Shakuras Plateau)
I find it hard to believe that shakuras is missing because of the pylon bug and and same goes for this. It takes no time at all to edit the LT map to get rid of flowers and i'm sure there's a fairly easy fix for the shakuras invisible pylon as well. Bash blizzard all you want, but it doesn't take them weeks to fix a 2x2 section of the map.
Shakuras probably had some other bigger problem/issue and if they are to fix this LT bug it could easily be hotfixed in a few minutes.
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On January 15 2011 07:22 BoTmon wrote:
I wonder how big of an advantage it is to have 1 more worker mining instead of scouting? hmmmmmMMMMM
it's a small imbalance, however there are many cheeses that require you to know their spwan and are normally limited to 1 players maps. Also you are never going to scout the zerg last position and maybe miss the 6 pool etc etc.
again this isn't the end of the world, but it's a small and unfair advantage.
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It affects team play more since there are more jungle themed team maps in the map pool. I cant remember the 8 player map that is jungle themed but in 2v2 it can take a while to scout. You can pull unstoppable nightmare blind proxy's on that map because of it.
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This can easily be fixed with out a patch. Nice find though definately going to abuse it on LT lol
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awesome thread, unfortunately I play zerg .
side note, so the custom icons people get, the op should get one w/ a flower haha :>
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Only zerg? That is not fair. :\
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On January 15 2011 07:09 dangots0ul wrote:
NOOO NO MORE auto wins on LT
How do you auto win just by knowing where someone spawned? You must be a god on 1v1 maps!
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That bug needs to be fixed asap, but I'm surprised at how many people want it out of the map pool. Just like WarCraft 3 lost temple is my favorite map in SC2, followed closely by metalopolis and xel'naga caverns!
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Really impressive find.
Thanks for the info!
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On January 15 2011 07:37 Firkraag8 wrote:
That bug needs to be fixed asap, but I'm surprised at how many people want it out of the map pool. Just like WarCraft 3 lost temple is my favorite map in SC2, followed closely by metalopolis and xel'naga caverns!
thor drop imba
and lol nice catch... i probably wont ladder til this is fixed...
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I already have DQ, JB and Steppes veto'd. What should I unveto in exchange for LT?
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its hardly game breaking
you'll still scout anyway unless u wanna play blind
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VERY VERY nice catch. I really hope they fix this. Man, you are going to save a lot of people a lot of frustration!
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On January 15 2011 07:42 optical630 wrote:
its hardly game breaking
you'll still scout anyway unless u wanna play blind
It adds a lot more potential to cheese and early all-ins. If anything, it's a reason to take out a map that a lot of people dislike.
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On January 15 2011 07:42 Torte de Lini wrote:
I already have DQ, JB and Steppes veto'd. What should I unveto in exchange for LT?
Steppes and do the 12 drone rush!
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OP should add this video to the first post.
Great find; hopefully it is fixed asap.
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ridiculous... i hope blizz remove LT just like they did with Shakuras, and btw, would be great to NEVER see LT on a map pool again.
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Edited the OP with the video thanks AskJoshy
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Wow, this is a pretty nice catch, but totally makes sense when you think about it. Normally you can see as the creep spreads, it "dissolves" plants it hits. But look carefully and you'll notice the plant dies before the creep covers it up.
The starting creep I guess destroys the plants before the fog of war view is constructed. It's an order of effects kind of thing: creep/plant effect executed -> fog of war image taken -> creep and hatch rendered. At least that's what I imagine.
Probably won't be a big deal for Blizz to fix if they choose to keep the map.
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Wow this is huge really surprised no one else has found this
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On January 15 2011 07:42 optical630 wrote:
its hardly game breaking
you'll still scout anyway unless u wanna play blind
This is actually way worse than the bug which lead to the removal of Shakuras Plateau (which actually was one of the more balanced maps out there). But I'm a pessimist and as such I don't see this map removed from the map pool anytime soon, they'll just announce it's a friggin' feature in the map, zergs having it too easy otherwise.
Gonna be loving the proxies everyone lame enough will throw at me after they figure this out. It's not like we're not having our cut of the cheesy bullshit already, ofc things like this have to happen as well. And saying you'll scout a zerg anyway... well... maaany of my opponents basically just scout where I am and at the most see if I go Hat->Pool or Pool->Hat anyways before leaving, and in two player maps many don't even bother scouting.
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Nicely done thanks for catching the bug! How'd you find out?
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holy cheese...... nice find. Let's hope blizzard gets a hold on that one. needs to be fixed asap...
for now i have reason to turn something (terrain) from low to medium.
greetingz and thx to OP
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working as intended =_,= we zerg love you blizz but you surely dont have love for us (lol)!
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thx for the info. this sucks T___T.
hope blizzard can fix this asap.
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Moon < Lost Temple > (T)August
This is going to be interesting tomorrow.
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The sick thing is that the blizzard design team could fix the tree issue but not have the foresight to think of how it might apply on other maps.
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On January 15 2011 03:46 thespitfire wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 03:43 Bodhi wrote:
I wonder if Blizzard will take this out of the map pool. i really doubt it. LT is a classic, and what about the fucking cliff
what about close spawn LT? You can look at the flowers, find none then 2rax blindly
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On January 15 2011 08:31 Odoakar wrote:
Moon < Lost Temple > (T)August
This is going to be interesting tomorrow.
August would win with or without the bug haha. Moon is pretty bad.
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So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play
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Saves a lot of time, and you can pretty much know your build at the start of the game based on position.
For example, TvZ... you'd know right at the start if you got favorable positions for really fast thor drop on the ledge. You can also just send your SCV right there, it is a big advantage if someone scouts the wrong direction because by the time they get to the final spot you'll have want to have made a decision on you opening by then and it might cost you a bit.
It isn't GAMEBREAKING but the higher the level of play the more the player would be capable of taking advantage of this.
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On January 15 2011 08:40 MOARpylons wrote:
So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play
Uh, try reading the thread.
It means you can get cannon rushed/2gated/6pooled/WHATEVER without being scouted.
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On January 15 2011 08:42 Zerokaiser wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 08:40 MOARpylons wrote:
So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play Uh, try reading the thread. It means you can get cannon rushed/2gated/6pooled/WHATEVER without being scouted.
I did read the thread.
And if i played Zerg on LT then i would assume im getting rushed until my scouting tells otherwise. If i was getting rushed id react to it. God knows a handful of roaches on high ground cant stop a cannon contain. Or that a 2gate isnt stopped by a handful of lings and a couple spine crawlers. And if im getting 6pooled by another Zerg... lol
Yes it is a bit unfair, But gamebreaking? I dunno...
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wow. great find. i really don't know what to say as a zerg player lol.
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The gold expo on Kulas has the flowers too. I looked around for things like this whenever the trees were patched for the beta but never used it because I felt it would make me dependent on it.
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On January 15 2011 08:47 MOARpylons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 08:42 Zerokaiser wrote:On January 15 2011 08:40 MOARpylons wrote:
So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play Uh, try reading the thread. It means you can get cannon rushed/2gated/6pooled/WHATEVER without being scouted. I did read the thread. And if i played Zerg on LT then i would assume im getting rushed until my scouting tells otherwise. If i was getting rushed id react to it. God knows a handful of roaches on high ground cant stop a cannon contain. Or that a 2gate isnt stopped by a handful of lings and a couple spine crawlers. And if im getting 6pooled by another Zerg... lol Yes it is a bit unfair, But gamebreaking? I dunno...
proxied gates and raxes have a huge advantage on LT vs Z now because the scouting information from the beginning of the game is now as if one player was playing on a 2 player map and the zerg on a 4 player. in terms of map balance, you can't break the game much more than that
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On January 15 2011 08:47 MOARpylons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 08:42 Zerokaiser wrote:On January 15 2011 08:40 MOARpylons wrote:
So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play Uh, try reading the thread. It means you can get cannon rushed/2gated/6pooled/WHATEVER without being scouted. I did read the thread. And if i played Zerg on LT then i would assume im getting rushed until my scouting tells otherwise. If i was getting rushed id react to it. God knows a handful of roaches on high ground cant stop a cannon contain. Or that a 2gate isnt stopped by a handful of lings and a couple spine crawlers. And if im getting 6pooled by another Zerg... lol Yes it is a bit unfair, But gamebreaking? I dunno...
Its something that needs to be fixed... It does make it easier for a player to cheese a zerg that way (because if you see their cross positions as terran maybe you won't 2 rax unlike normal). Don't see how you don't see a problem with this :S
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On January 15 2011 08:47 MOARpylons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 08:42 Zerokaiser wrote:On January 15 2011 08:40 MOARpylons wrote:
So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play Uh, try reading the thread. It means you can get cannon rushed/2gated/6pooled/WHATEVER without being scouted. I did read the thread. And if i played Zerg on LT then i would assume im getting rushed until my scouting tells otherwise. If i was getting rushed id react to it. God knows a handful of roaches on high ground cant stop a cannon contain. Or that a 2gate isnt stopped by a handful of lings and a couple spine crawlers. And if im getting 6pooled by another Zerg... lol Yes it is a bit unfair, But gamebreaking? I dunno...
It's pretty game-breaking because if you're going to play on the assumption that you're going to be rushed without seeing any warning signs (scouting worker), then your build is going to put you far behind if he isn't rushing. Even if he does rush, there's a good chance that it'll come before your scouting tells you anything since he has no need to scout your location in order to all-in you. Not having to use a worker to scout means his economy takes less of a hit and the rush will hit you full force 100% of the time right from the beginning with nothing to warn you that it's coming, especially since the fact that it's a 4-player map means there's only 1/3 chance that you'll scout the correct location on your first try whereas he already knows yours.
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On January 15 2011 08:37 k20 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 08:31 Odoakar wrote:
Moon < Lost Temple > (T)August
This is going to be interesting tomorrow. August would win with or without the bug haha. Moon is pretty bad.
yet moon crushed august a few weeks ago in the code A tiebraker
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Has someone posted this over on the Blizzard forums yet? Shakuras got taken out and put back in with the same bug for no reason, but this probably won't get fixed for another month. :/
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Wow nice job spotting that!
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there was a similar bug in beta. haha silly blizzard.
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Wow, nice find OP! Thanks for letting everyone know about the exploit.
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It also spots for expansions lategame so.. yea, Evil bug is evil. Look over your doodads blizz.
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Since people have been posting versions of this thread without searching might as well bump it to the first page.
Also seconding the need to get this to GOM if they don't already know; we should bump this thread on those forums too.
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re: GSL... my understanding most pro players use the low graphics details, where I am under the impression you cant see the bug?
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Dang now lost temple will be taken out of the map pool for awhile. -_-
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i wonder if this is a result of the new patch or are we just discovering this now? nice find indeed
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I would say it might move them to put out some new maps since they may have to crack open an editor for this one, but, ya know...
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Well, so I guess every time creep is generated (via hatcheries, tumors, or ovies) this will manifest itself? That's kind of a big deal. I wonder if there are other things that some pros know.. In a few GSL games there were some unusually 'lucky' proxies.
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I'm surprised it took this long to find this bug. I suppose nobody really paid attention to the flowers, understandably.
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Looks like zergs have a vendetta against flowers now.
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Edited the OP once again since Blizzard actually noticed it !
It didnt even take 24h for them to notice the bug. Everyone is hating on Blizzard for being super slow patching but I think that was a damn fast response at least.
Lets see how long it will take untill its fixed - i still have hope in Blizzard.
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Wow, crazy.
I'm down to five maps in my pool now.
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Hah. I thought I'd try this in ladder if I met zerg in LT. Good thing it's only shown on ultra, makes me not want to do the effort of changing stuff just to be able to abuse a bug
Trololol @ tvz in LT. Most imbalanced map for any matchup imo, this only adds to how badly zerg suffers from the map against T.
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standard terran/protoss behavior to look at flowers when theres a war going on...
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I run my settings in medium and I could notice flowers missing.
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I have everything on lowest possible settings, and I was unable to see flowers through fog.
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Canada13379 Posts
This is crazy and it doesnt work on Low oh well I dont wanna cheat anyway.
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this is pretty significant if you ask me.. wow patch better come soon!
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ROFL strategical flower placement.
Zergs shouldnt pick all the flowers so we dont know where they are.
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wow nice find! zerg players have a bigger problem on LT now :o
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imma veto LT until its fixed >.<
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So Zerg are revolutionists for the Flower Power movement? Hehe.
On topic, good to see players reporting it, regardless of how it actually came about. :O
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One of the most Hilarious and RIDICULOUS doodad mistakes to come across this game. Period.
Edit: A reply from the B.net Forums:
I'm Barack Obama and I endorse this message."
hahaha
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Havn't read the thread entirely, but would this also work for expansion across the map late game ?
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This actually works on metalopolis aswell. I just checked and if you look carfully at each expo there are cracks in the concrete by the mineral patches. The cracks are no present on a zergs spawn point
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On January 16 2011 04:03 MajorMajor wrote:
This actually works on metalopolis aswell. I just checked and if you look carfully at each expo there are cracks in the concrete by the mineral patches. The cracks are no present on a zergs spawn point
i tried it and i couldnt get this to work - if your point is valid either provide screenshots before/after a video or the exact settings you used to make it happen on Meta thanks.
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They should replace LT with Crossfire, and just throw LT back in the map pool when this bug is fixed.
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On January 16 2011 04:14 idonthinksobro wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2011 04:03 MajorMajor wrote:
This actually works on metalopolis aswell. I just checked and if you look carfully at each expo there are cracks in the concrete by the mineral patches. The cracks are no present on a zergs spawn point i tried it and i couldnt get this to work - if your point is valid either provide screenshots before/after a video or the exact settings you used to make it happen on Meta thanks.
Nevermind I think I am mistaken. There are cracks by the minerals on the top expos only so I got confused.
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On January 15 2011 03:41 idonthinksobro wrote:Hello fellow TLers, LT is in fact imba because you can tell the zergs spawn position without scouting since you can/cant see flowers at their starting position. This works for all spawn positions - settings can be on medium/high or ultra i dont know about the exact shaders terrain settings but it was confirmed many times that it works with medium and above. Video explaining the bug: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDUS3t3N2PY&feature=player_embeddedthanks AskJoshy SS Lost Temple: + Show Spoiler +It actually works on any "jungle themed map that has flowers at the starting location" SS: tempest + Show Spoiler +An official Blizzard guy actually posted in the Bug report so there is no need to bump the threads but maybe you should add additional info if you find out new stuff about the bug or add your general thoughts about it. Posts on the Blizzard Forums about itBugsection + Show Spoiler +General + Show Spoiler + Nice catch
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Wow this is a really important find! Thanks for the warning
How the heck do people figure these things out...
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Wow, crazy to see that this wasn't noticed. I feel like it's BM for me to abuse this, but I can't imagine a world in which I don't use this advantage.
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Does this mean that all flowers are removed as soon as a building gets placed over it? So if I build a pylon or supply depot on top of the flowers, they will disappear through the fog? Or does the game have to start out without those doodads (and therefore it can only happen because creep is the only thing that is spread out around bases)?
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On January 15 2011 08:40 MOARpylons wrote:
So why is this so extremely "gamebreaking?" Theyre going to have to scout either way, unless they wanna play blind, which is always the best way to play
ZvZ: 6-pool on a 4-player map is ridiculously unexpected. If I'm Zerg and I know where my Zerg opponent is without giving away my whereabouts...
Same with any proxy opening in PvZ or TvZ.
Zergs fast expand very often on 4-player maps.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
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Interesting, there are probably tiny details like this on other maps too that can be exploited.
Good job finding it bro, pretty crazy advantage.
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Oh snap. Yea quick patch on this pls Blizz!
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This could be really, really bad for ZvZ. Knowing where your opponent is without scouting then doing an 8-pool double spinecrawler rush seems unstoppable. Hopefully this is fixed soon before its heavily exploited.
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On January 15 2011 12:44 hagon wrote:
re: GSL... my understanding most pro players use the low graphics details, where I am under the impression you cant see the bug?
Gom has made a custom LT for the GSL with all the flowers removed, so this can't be abused.
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Omfg I'm gonna vote out LT immediately until this is fixed.
And now i have a reason for all my losses :D
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On January 18 2011 05:05 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 12:44 hagon wrote:
re: GSL... my understanding most pro players use the low graphics details, where I am under the impression you cant see the bug? Gom has made a custom LT for the GSL with all the flowers removed, so this can't be abused.
The gsl really fixed it within 2 days, thats huge as artosis would say, they didnt even need 2 days to get this information from tl, notice that this is really unfair, and to change the map - and blizzard didnt even remove the map out of the pool or anything.
+ Show Spoiler +
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it would be kind of cool to learn this trick before it goes out. then i could cheese my heart out
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Australia8532 Posts
Lol really nice find - nice that GSL custom tweaked the map for their competition :D
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Played a game today, I think, Blizzard fixed it now.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/29n6iv9.png)
![[image loading]](http://i55.tinypic.com/ekgcqa.png)
![[image loading]](http://i54.tinypic.com/29bsk8.jpg)
