EPTThis is harder than in BW where you know exactly where you stand and a D player will never be able to take games from C or B players as often as a 2000 Diamond can take games from top 200 players.
Infusing Cash into Starcraft 2 - Page 10
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dtz
5834 Posts
This is harder than in BW where you know exactly where you stand and a D player will never be able to take games from C or B players as often as a 2000 Diamond can take games from top 200 players. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
This type of tournament (weekly internet based) are just for practice/fun/prestige then money.. If you add ESWC, MLG, WCG, GSL, dreamhack,blizzcon, ECG, Arbalet, IEM, ESL series, smaller lans that will eventually appear in europe/USA there will be more money to win. But i do like this system and i can see a future for it! Imagine a huge tournament with 10$ or 20$ buy in with all the top pros and some other guys.. i bet lots of guys would pay just to have a chance at playing against the world's best! | ||
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Bladefury
25 Posts
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
It really summarize my opinion on this. If we want Starcraft 2 to grow bigger we have to invest a bit of our money. I would even love to play in a 1 dollar tournament. Why starting at 10 ? | ||
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daytrippers
Sweden223 Posts
but for the record the main problem seems to be the lack of tournaments, and furthermore lack of disparity of prizes in tournaments. | ||
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Bladefury
25 Posts
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crms
United States11933 Posts
On December 14 2010 14:21 Jombozeus wrote: The skill gap is MUCH bigger and VERY defined in Starcraft 2. Looking at a guy's ranking and seeing him 2600 Diamond while you're 1900 Diamond means your likelihood to lose is probably 90%. This doesn't inspire buy-ins. this is so full of shit I don't know what to say... I almost never ladder, I have 900 ladder points 65% win rate and a 1400 bonus pool. I regulary enter these small tournaments (free buy ins) and knock off players 2500+. You're making ladder points wayyy to significant. The only thing ladder points can tell you is a general sense of how solid a player is once youre in the top range 2700+ or so. You can generally expect they will have solid play or well organized cheeses. | ||
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Metalwing
Turkey1038 Posts
On December 15 2010 03:25 Deckkie wrote: So much anger. i dont how this is the same as paying to play basketball. Betting on basketball games is something that happens (same thing as this will do). And its stupid to say that players shouldnt use particular strats like cheesing. Cheesing helps the game develop and it is, should, and always will be a part of the game! Who is talking about 1- Cheese is evil and it should be punished? What I mean is, cheese would not be a problem if it wasn't the most viable strat in some matchups or races and easily punishable for others. 2- Betting on basketball games? I was actually talking about paying for a basketball court for playing it. Let me be more clear. You pay 10 bucks to the owner of a basketball court in the street, you play 1 hour, after that 1 hour finishes, you leave. On December 15 2010 03:29 xOff wrote: @metal I have actually bet on basketball games all the time :D I understand where you're coming from, but its a whole new experience playing with risk as opposed to playing with nothing on the line. You are correct when you said there will be mass cheesing, but even in GSL there is mass cheesing with money on the line. Exactly, this is what I'm saying. Even when the money on the line is not their very own money, people cheese this hard. If it's also their own money, people would cheese more. | ||
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Influ
Germany780 Posts
For example i know Take and HomerJ are organizing a huge tournament kind of Homestory Cup 2. I know many people allready donated money for that tounement and I consider to do that as well but when i google 5 minutes for the tournement and I don't find anything I rapidly loose interest in donating. For me the bad publishing of the tournement is a lack of quality so why should I pay? Same thing with GSL. Everybody knows how bad the stream is so for me the thought of paying them for that is hilarious. I do pay for ESL Premium for years now because the pure quantity of shows (for Germans at least) for that low amount money is just plain awesome even if I sometimes rage at ESL when they have their moments. Next point is the number of tournements. The amount of tournements with a low price pool is sick and i can't keep up with all that stuff and if there is tournement every day with european and amarican top players it's just not that interesting to watch after a while. So my opinion what needs to be done for getting money to esports: -Sponsors should stop spending money on 3 events at the same time and do the big throw, I think Sony Erricson is pretty happy with their investment in GSL. -Tournement organization has to become as professional as they can and minimize technical difficulties and stuff to almost zero. I know it is hard to get there without a lot of money but still. | ||
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sekishusai
80 Posts
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red_hq
Canada450 Posts
On December 15 2010 04:00 Diks wrote: Very good post. It really summarize my opinion on this. If we want Starcraft 2 to grow bigger we have to invest a bit of our money. I would even love to play in a 1 dollar tournament. Why starting at 10 ? Paypal fees, minimum transaction fee is something like 30¢ Just a question would you guys play in a tourney that looked like this? 64 players $10 entry Prize distribution: 1 : $240 2 : $120 3-4: $60 5-8: $30 That leaves a $40 headroom for paypal fees royalties etc. I'm sure if you don't skim or rake the pool you can skirt a lot of legal issues. Your odds assuming all of your MU's are 50-50 if 1/8 to get prizes which isn't the worst of odds even assuming you get 3 or 4 ringers in your tournament there is still 4 wild card spots that triple your entry fee. This sort of 40/20/10/10/5/5/5/5 distribution will probably attract the lower level players as well because of the increased amount of prize slots. Then on top of that sponsers would just add to the prize pool. | ||
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UltraVires
United States241 Posts
2- Betting on basketball games? I was actually talking about paying for a basketball court for playing it. Let me be more clear. You pay 10 bucks to the owner of a basketball court in the street, you play 1 hour, after that 1 hour finishes, you leave. No one's talking about requiring pay-to-play for every game. Free bnet ladder would still be avail to everyone. We're talking about totally optional sit'n'go style tournaments. So the better analogy is this: Do you want 1 basketball court where most everyone plays "for fun" or two: the "fun" court and the pay-to-play tournament court? Edit: If you hate cheese, you should prefer two courts, at least if you're right that tournaments will attract the cheesy players. You'd be welcome to stay on ladder, which would presumably be less cheesy. | ||
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orotoss
United States298 Posts
Legal issues aside, it would not be terribly difficult to organize. Blizzard could simply copy the structure of any poker site out there. Start out by doing a few weekly tournaments to get the hang of things, and then increase the amount. If there were like 50 tournies to choose from on a saturday afternoon, I'm sure plenty of unknowns could win some cash. Also, they could use a payout scale that gives money back to players who get to the second round. This would encourage much more tournament play while still allowing for a decent payout to first place. Blizzard could easily incorporate a raking system, which would make them tons of money. And they could use that money to pay for their new employees, because I feel like the only viable way to do these tournies would be to have Blizzard moderators in charge of setting up the games and observing. Unfortunately, I don't see this kind of thing ever happening for Starcraft 2. Considering how many legal issues surround poker sites (especially in the US), this kind of thing would be waayyy too risky for Blizzard to do. It may be possible to do it in other countries with less stringent gambling laws, but I doubt Blizzard would even bother. EDIT I take back the gambling laws part, after reading a post by insanious. Apparently, MTG online has buy in tournaments with cash prizes all the time. I am suddenly a lot more hopeful for Starcraft 2 to do something like this. | ||
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
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orotoss
United States298 Posts
On December 15 2010 04:58 DreamSailor wrote: Also worth noting is the amount of time for 64 players to play, then the 32, then the 16 all the way to the winner actually takes an absurdly long time. A game can be anywhere from 8 minutes to 45 on average. You could potentially be playing a lot hours for ~200 bucks. Very true, but currently there are plenty of players playing several hours for 0 bucks. This will at least allow some non-pro gamers to experience the excitement of playing in a tournament, while still having a chance to make some cash. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Pharaun
Germany150 Posts
oh an, when u want to realize this, u will need a sofrtware/or site, where maybe can cash in 20$ and play several tournaments with you're 20$ bankroll. And not cash in for every tournament. And jeah, "Micros" should be availible, maybe 20c tournaments, why not? omg, more andm ore ideas are coming to my head: the luck factor in sc2 should be to less to atract bad players thht just want to win some money with luck like in poker... | ||
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DreamSailor
Canada433 Posts
On December 15 2010 05:04 orotoss wrote: Very true, but currently there are plenty of players playing several hours for 0 bucks. This will at least allow some non-pro gamers to experience the excitement of playing in a tournament, while still having a chance to make some cash. True, but these tourneys could easily be 4+hours long. Would you have set breaks? Every player would have to wait for his next opponent to finish, and there could be potentially huge backlogs of people, just waiting, they can't start another game because what if their opponent finishes? They're kind of just in a deadzone of waiting around, which isn't fun. I'm not saying its impossible, if you worked out the kinks I think it could be awesome. I just think theres a couple of huge issues that need to be addressed. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On December 15 2010 01:57 UltraVires wrote: You're right that most people play SC2 just to have fun. But that's exactly the point -- monetizing SC2 with a gambling system would go a long way toward making it more of an esport and less of a "fun hobby." And it would get a lot more people playing seriously. How many people would take poker seriously if no money were involved? And how many more people would take SC2 seriously if money were involved? + Show Spoiler + High five for UM law and posting in this thread instead of studying for torts! I agree with this. If only top 3 got paid, HotBid is right, almost everyone would have no chance of winning. But if top half get paid, that changes everything. I'm pretty bad, but I'd pay to enter something like this: $10 entry fee, 64 players 17-32 get their $10 back 16-9 get $15 8-5 get $25 3+4 get $40 2 gets $60 1 gets $120. If you get past the first round, it's a break even proposition. One might ask why someone would pay $10 for the chance to win $120 at most in a 64 man tournament. The margins are much higher in poker tournaments. But as people have already pointed out, poker involves more luck than SC2. So it's easier to predict how well one will do in an SC 2 tournament than in a poker tournament. And since there's less risk, the reward can be correspondingly smaller. + Show Spoiler + This is a big assumption, I realize. There's still plenty of luck in tournaments based on who enters and how the brackets turn out. But SC2 def involves less risk than poker. Another key to making this work would be to set up something like Poker Stars. One reason I don't bother with free sc2 tournaments is that it's a hassle to enter, schedule, etc. If I could log on, click to pay $10, and be playing the tournament within 15 mins, like a sitngo style online poker tournament, I'd be much more likely to play. If it comes down to picking between a weekly $10 tournament and a weekly free tournament, however, HotBid is again right, a gambling system would probably fail. Chuck Norris approves of this message. | ||
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Skoobasteve
United States52 Posts
Good idea^^ | ||
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