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Ya honestly, I can't believe we're having this discussion - I think a part part of the issue is that western socity has for a long time associated how much you make with how good a person you are in socity. Therefore the football star who makes millions but still runs with drug dealers and other professional criminals is seen as a role model but the garbage man that saves up for years a dontates 10's of thousands to charity is looked over as a failure (really when was the last time you saw a garage man and thuoght you know maybe he's actually a great person?)
Would you still be saying the same things if pro videogamers made millions? No I doubt it.
To everyone knocking e-sports because there it's not a real job, I would suggest this - if you don't think the same of all mainstream professional sports or really most forms of professional entertainment then you're views are inconsistant and you need to do a little soul searching. Please, keep trying to be a doctor or lawyers and whatever else you think is 'good'. But think about it, if you look up more to a medical doctor than to a research PhD because the researcher isn't a real doctor (god I hate that, really think about which one is harder) then maybe you're vaules are a little... undeveloped.
If you think that all pro sports type are a waste and silly, then ok I can understand you looking down on pro e-sports but fundimently both main stream sports and e-sports are entertainers.
Look if you already think that anyone making less that 6 figures annually is a failure, well live you life, I hope you get rich and great luck to you. But you doubt you will ever be truely happy or truely sastisfied until you open your mind. Oh and guess what, you can actually be open minded and still be rich... think out it... it's shocking.
edit: let me add this, I wouldn't actually recommend that anyone go into sc2 professionally, I'm sure people will not listen to me and I'm happy they don't because that means they wanted to do it enough to ignore naysayer (good for you)
why not? because there isn't a good backup plan if it turns out you're not good enough to make a living. but that is the only reason. One of the think about most of the 'recommended' careers otu there is that even if you fail you prob still have a decent educatino under you and make a decent living.
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On November 15 2010 00:39 Galleon.frigate wrote:
Look if you already think that anyone making less that 6 figures annually is a failure, well live you life, I hope you get rich and great luck to you. But you doubt you will ever be truely happy or truely sastisfied until you open your mind. Oh and guess what, you can actually be open minded and still be rich... think out it... it's shocking.
I feel like this is the major problem most esports-loving people have when discussing their passion with others: often times it comes across as really insecure. You don't have to be all like
Oh and guess what, you can actually be open minded and still be rich... think out it... it's shocking.
It just sounds small. Just be passionate about it, if people think thats cool, god bless. If people don't, god bless. Can't be ashamed of the shit you're passionate about.
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On November 14 2010 23:30 FrostOtter wrote:
And what is a global depression than the devaluing of culturally constructed currency that never had any inherent value to begin with. The economy would suffer because our economy is built upon jobs that exist more or less for there to be jobs; CEOs are not vital to human existence, clerks are not vital to human existence, tech writers, secretaries, programmers, analysts, HR trainers, etc.-- all of these are completely arbitrary positions, positions that the human race has endured without for thousands of years and relied on for only the last few decades.
My point is not that CEOs or whatever don't have their place (however imaginary that place may be), but rather that "don't contribute to society" is a pretty broad umbrella that covers 90 percent of today's jobs. Money passing hands doesn't contribute to society any more than progaming does-- in fact, as falling under the heading of entertainment, progaming at least has the ephemeral ability to provide joy to people, while in my experience money is far less likely to do so on a day to day basis.
Either you're incredibly misinformed or you just need to take a few courses on Economics before you post on this subject. A CEO of a large firm does more for the economy and society in general in one year than you will in your entire lifetime. Say you want toilet paper so you don't have to use your hand when you use the bathroom. Well that needs to be made, and you can't make it in anything but a large factory with tons of employees. Those employees need to be organized by managers, operations specialists and HR professionals, a supply chain needs to be managed by people doing nothing but office work, so that there's always material to keep the facility operating. Furthermore, someone needs to make sure that the quality of the product stays high and that the production costs stay low enough so that it's cheap to buy. Someone else needs to be there making sure it goes out to retailers so that you can actually go out and buy it. Without these "non contributing" jobs, we'd still be in the dark ages.
Furthermore, you need a bit of a history lesson too. We've had clerks, bankers, secretaries, supply managers, etc. for thousands of years, so don't claim that society exists well without them. In fact, before the adoption of currency in most parts of the world we were basically cavemen.
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On November 15 2010 01:05 SharkSpider wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 23:30 FrostOtter wrote:
And what is a global depression than the devaluing of culturally constructed currency that never had any inherent value to begin with. The economy would suffer because our economy is built upon jobs that exist more or less for there to be jobs; CEOs are not vital to human existence, clerks are not vital to human existence, tech writers, secretaries, programmers, analysts, HR trainers, etc.-- all of these are completely arbitrary positions, positions that the human race has endured without for thousands of years and relied on for only the last few decades.
My point is not that CEOs or whatever don't have their place (however imaginary that place may be), but rather that "don't contribute to society" is a pretty broad umbrella that covers 90 percent of today's jobs. Money passing hands doesn't contribute to society any more than progaming does-- in fact, as falling under the heading of entertainment, progaming at least has the ephemeral ability to provide joy to people, while in my experience money is far less likely to do so on a day to day basis.
Either you're incredibly misinformed or you just need to take a few courses on Economics before you post on this subject. A CEO of a large firm does more for the economy and society in general in one year than you will in your entire lifetime. Say you want toilet paper so you don't have to use your hand when you use the bathroom. Well that needs to be made, and you can't make it in anything but a large factory with tons of employees. Those employees need to be organized by managers, operations specialists and HR professionals, a supply chain needs to be managed by people doing nothing but office work, so that there's always material to keep the facility operating. Furthermore, someone needs to make sure that the quality of the product stays high and that the production costs stay low enough so that it's cheap to buy. Someone else needs to be there making sure it goes out to retailers so that you can actually go out and buy it. Without these "non contributing" jobs, we'd still be in the dark ages. Furthermore, you need a bit of a history lesson too. We've had clerks, bankers, secretaries, supply managers, etc. for thousands of years, so don't claim that society exists well without them. In fact, before the adoption of currency in most parts of the world we were basically cavemen.
I didn't realize the economy was the same as contributing to society, but then again I have enough respect for the humanities and for history to know that the economy is about the last thing in order of importance to humanity (except for the businessmen).
Also, the existence of mass-produced toilet paper =/= having to use your hand. The manufacturing of toilet paper could easily be accomplished on a smaller, regional scale, not to mention that there is absolutely no need to wipe your ass with either your hand or toilet paper. I am sure there are different types of cloth that would do the job just fine, whether quality or rags. The only thing your "contributions" do for society is further allow for commercial waste, commodification, and provide unnecessary ease. We would do absolutely fine without them. Banks are about 600 years old, by the way, which is hardly "thousands of years" and is a small fraction of human history.
I'm not arguing that the things we have today do not make life easier (albeit wasteful) or whatever, but that in a strict sense they are not at all necessary. Companies can exist without multinational corporations, manufacturing can exist without factories, and so on and so forth. I'm not saying abolish everything, but I am pointing out that the progamer is only slightly less useful than most other professions, if we are going to start making those arguments.
I do like all the middle-class/upper-middle-class rage ITT though.
Note: I am referring to banks in the modern sense of the term.
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The fact that there are people who got upset enough by the speach that they had to come to this forum and point out that if you are not a doctor, or lawyer (lol?) or such, you arnt doing anything worth talking about with your life, is evidence enough that his speach is soo true.
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United States4796 Posts
Beautiful speech. Be proud of your game heritage!
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In my opinion he did a very good job on this little improvised speech. I think it touched nearly everyone on Teamliquid.
I can't see why anyone would be upset about this speech.
On November 15 2010 01:29 DivinO wrote:
Beautiful speech. Be proud of your game heritage!
Couldn't have said it better.
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Canada521 Posts
I'm sure people told the Wright brothers they were wasting their time trying to fly... and I'm 100% sure many people thought playing hockey waaay back before it was a sport in canada, that they were wasting their time too.
same with golf...
same with football (North american) ..
It's just when people are not used to something, or when something is new and not popular (and they don't use it / do it) they are going to see it as a waste of time. But really... this 19 page thread and what it is talking about I think is really talking about the wrong issue..
The real issue is.. Why do you care of other people think you are wasting your time? What matters is how YOU feel about what you are doing...Now dont get me me wrong, you need to be honest with yourself when asking that... But really, what you think about what you're doing is all that maters....
Do you know who cares LESS about your life and your problems than you do??..... EVERYBODY.
So when you hear someone say gaming is a waste of time... ask youself "how much do they really care that I am a gamer?" .... THE ANSWER will always be "they care a hell of a lot less than I care about whether or not I am a gamer". So your conclusion should be "therefor I alone will decide when and if I wanna game"
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Chills, epic speech, you tell em John!
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On November 15 2010 01:29 NuKedUFirst wrote:In my opinion he did a very good job on this little improvised speech. I think it touched nearly everyone on Teamliquid. I can't see why anyone would be upset about this speech. Show nested quote +On November 15 2010 01:29 DivinO wrote:
Beautiful speech. Be proud of your game heritage! Couldn't have said it better.
I'm not upset about this speech, I just don't see how it's "ZOMG EPIC HOLY SHIT EPIC!!!"
It was a nice way to finish off the tourney, but if this is what gamers rally around to say is "epic" then I am quite sad for the community
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The discussion about this is ridiculous, mainly because it is VERY likely that ALL sports started like this, people probably said things like "WTH you're wasting your life chasing after that soccer ball", well, there you got the most popular sport on earth now. Gaming is something NEW (what.. 20 years old?), and the reach of eSports is really something that is just now beginning to be explored. It is likely that eSports will be a valid ocupation for your life some years from now. When I started gaming, around 17 years ago, I didn't even know the internet existed, and now we got SC2 tournaments with Old Spice advertisement in them.
IMO, if you think eSports is a sucky thing to do with your life, well, that's fine, your opinion. If you think that it is a valid way to live life, in the measure that it makes you and your environment happy, then fine, do it, there's nothing wrong with it. Personally, gaming is my main hobby, I love it and I have tons of fun with it, but I've chosen to work in the future as a doctor, while getting whatever gaming I can. I just feel happy that way, regardless of how much money I make, if gaming for a living made me happier, I would sure as hell go all the way with it.
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"I have a dream that one day esports will be played freely and without prejudice.
I have a dream that one day my children will be playing Starcraft 4 with all the other kids around the world.
I have a dream..."
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Very true words from Junkka.
There's alot more to life than just living. Living, they way people around you think you should live, is the biggest bear trap you'll ever have to get out of, imo.
I myself struggle with it too, one day you'll realise what you want to do and what you should do, the next day you've already forgotten it. Remember that 95% of every single thought you think every day are the exact same as the day before.
So start reading good books  .
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Not sure if we're allowed to post youtube links or not, but if you want to hear the speech just go to youtube and search "GSL John Speech". Hearing it in his voice makes it even more epic.
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I like the speech, but it's sad that the world has come to a point where such a speech is even needed.
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Loved his speech
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its on the vod. so epic :D
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People like this guy need to be shot. Go out and volunteer your time helping others or do something that benefits society. People like this anger me so much, it hurts.
User was banned for this post.
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EPT
