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[MLG Dallas] American vs. Korean eSports Events - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
November 11 2010 06:24 GMT
#21
Great post; I hope the adjust the stage around for 2011. I wonder if it's like it is at all because of Halo. Is the Halo stage setup the same way? If so do you think it's intentionally done differently due to being primarily a team and console game?
Logo
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
November 11 2010 06:26 GMT
#22
i'm sure their budget will go way up after seeing the static vs actual revenues, hopefully we'll see a lot bigger of a setup when I'm on the big stage ^_^
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
November 11 2010 06:34 GMT
#23
Excellent post, and clear, concise explanation of not just what the problem is but why it's a problem.

Hopefully MLG will be able to reorganize for the 2011 season!
. . . nevermore
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
November 11 2010 06:42 GMT
#24
On some level, I agree with you 100%. SC2 has some excellent commentary and casting makes some boring matches worth watching. The Korean/Blizzcon setup is very professional and brings focus to the match.

On the other hand, I believe the MLG setup is excellent in letting the players and spectators feel like they're both part of the event equally. At the end of the match, the competitors and casters don't walk off the side of the stage, as if they're avoiding the fans. The setup feels much more personal.
Bosu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3247 Posts
November 11 2010 06:51 GMT
#25
On November 11 2010 15:42 aksfjh wrote:
On some level, I agree with you 100%. SC2 has some excellent commentary and casting makes some boring matches worth watching. The Korean/Blizzcon setup is very professional and brings focus to the match.

On the other hand, I believe the MLG setup is excellent in letting the players and spectators feel like they're both part of the event equally. At the end of the match, the competitors and casters don't walk off the side of the stage, as if they're avoiding the fans. The setup feels much more personal.


I feel the same way as you. Also, I know some of the players liked that the way the player area was settup they didn't have to look into an audience while playing. Makes it easier to concentrate on the game which I think is good.
#1 Kwanro Fan
PH
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States6173 Posts
November 11 2010 06:51 GMT
#26
I actually like the way the players were set up at MLG. It's kind of bad when players can be tipped off to audience cheering and whatnot.
Hello
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-11 07:28:09
November 11 2010 07:24 GMT
#27
Great post, could be very valuable input to any competition organizer!

Apart from that, I have to say that there are definite pros and cons to both setups.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
pinke
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States56 Posts
November 11 2010 07:32 GMT
#28
Was anyone at IEM at ComicCon? I really liked the set up they had going there. It was the screen, a space in the middle and competitors on either side with extra monitors in front of their computers showing what they saw on their screen and the big screen showed the caster's screen. The caster's were off to the side, you couldn't really see them. It would've been cooler if the casters were in the space in the middle maybe. I really like being able to see the competitors and the casters though. Especially with someone as animated as Day9, it's fun to watch him.
but then I think that rain is wet, so who am I to judge?
Peanutsc
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States295 Posts
November 11 2010 07:37 GMT
#29
On November 11 2010 15:24 Logo wrote:
Great post; I hope the adjust the stage around for 2011. I wonder if it's like it is at all because of Halo. Is the Halo stage setup the same way? If so do you think it's intentionally done differently due to being primarily a team and console game?


I didn't actually check out the Halo tournament at all. Did anybody else see it?

About the pros for players in the MLG tournament - I agree that the MLG setup brings players and spectators closer together, but there is a definite cost in terms of spectator-commentary engagement. I'd personally rather hang out with the players between games or before/after the day's events, but different strokes for different folks.

I personally don't think the player booths add all that much to the experience. It's nice to see who's actually playing, but it's not as if you get any extra game insight from watching them look at a monitor through a glass pane.

There's definitely room for innovation in SC venue layout - these two examples are only two of many possible setups. Perhaps sometime we'll find a happy medium where players and spectators can feel closer together without sacrificing salience of commentary.
"You only get one life on this earth, Tasteless, and if you're not spending the majority of it playing StarCraft, I would argue that it might be wasted." "I couldn't agree more, Artosis."
SpartanFrog
Profile Joined September 2010
United States22 Posts
November 11 2010 07:48 GMT
#30
Note: I really like the Blizzcon/Korean way better

I think though that Korean way really hinges off having the sound proof booths though as we have seen with in korea that is it possible to cheat or accidently hear the crowd while mlg works somewhat the other way. Yea the crowd is respectfully but stupid things happen that can't be controlled.

We don't know what MLG has prepared for '11. Can they afford booths? Do they want booths? We have heard that they will kinda be a main stage in '11 but what also does that entail? Will we see their whole mlg.tv expanded for us?

The result is that audience members are less likely to give the commentary their full attention and instead dissolve into personal commentary and theorycrafting with their neighbors, which can interfere with the experience of the people who want to just listen to the professional commentary. At BlizzCon, the audience tended to be silent along the lines of an audience at a theatrical play as opposed to a professional sporting event, and it seems to me that this was a direct effect of the commentators' proximity to the audience.
This quote really interests me. I don't think it distracts at all. When your at a baseball game you don't really have a commentator unless you bring a small radio along or maybe have a luxury seat w/ a TV. Why can't people talk amongst themselves and listen I know I can. Also maybe you were at Blizzcon but it seems more to me and to some extend during GSL(during non-finals/season1 opener) that the mics aren't picking up the crowd as good? MLG wasn't much better or better at all but from everyone is saying that MLG was having huge crowds watching being so far away may have to do with that.

Conclusion: Lets let MLG show what they kinda want to do first and then hopefully they let us somewhat tweak it so new can join in and old will have a great time.
Peanutsc
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States295 Posts
November 11 2010 17:59 GMT
#31
On November 11 2010 16:48 Grevious wrote:
Note: I really like the Blizzcon/Korean way better

I think though that Korean way really hinges off having the sound proof booths though as we have seen with in korea that is it possible to cheat or accidently hear the crowd while mlg works somewhat the other way. Yea the crowd is respectfully but stupid things happen that can't be controlled.

We don't know what MLG has prepared for '11. Can they afford booths? Do they want booths? We have heard that they will kinda be a main stage in '11 but what also does that entail? Will we see their whole mlg.tv expanded for us?

Show nested quote +
The result is that audience members are less likely to give the commentary their full attention and instead dissolve into personal commentary and theorycrafting with their neighbors, which can interfere with the experience of the people who want to just listen to the professional commentary. At BlizzCon, the audience tended to be silent along the lines of an audience at a theatrical play as opposed to a professional sporting event, and it seems to me that this was a direct effect of the commentators' proximity to the audience.
This quote really interests me. I don't think it distracts at all. When your at a baseball game you don't really have a commentator unless you bring a small radio along or maybe have a luxury seat w/ a TV. Why can't people talk amongst themselves and listen I know I can. Also maybe you were at Blizzcon but it seems more to me and to some extend during GSL(during non-finals/season1 opener) that the mics aren't picking up the crowd as good? MLG wasn't much better or better at all but from everyone is saying that MLG was having huge crowds watching being so far away may have to do with that.

Conclusion: Lets let MLG show what they kinda want to do first and then hopefully they let us somewhat tweak it so new can join in and old will have a great time.


You're lucky to be able to talk and listen at the same time! Basically, the theory is that many people (myself included) can't talk and listen to the SC commentators at the same time because they often speak very quickly (due to SC's fast pace, color commentary, etc.). I personally get a lot more out of the audience experience when I can hear the commentary clearly, which was not always the case at MLG - there were several times when the audience yelled to the staff to turn up the speakers since we couldn't hear them well.

I'm not sure about the mics at MLG picking up the audience, but it would make sense to me that if the commentators were closer to the audience, it might be easier to have an integrated mic system that picks up their reactions more efficiently than if they're far away.
"You only get one life on this earth, Tasteless, and if you're not spending the majority of it playing StarCraft, I would argue that it might be wasted." "I couldn't agree more, Artosis."
Slasher
Profile Joined September 2007
United States1095 Posts
November 11 2010 18:10 GMT
#32
In general, GSL, WCG and BlizzCon's setups are nearly identical, with ESL following suit except they dont have soundproof booths. Out of all of these leagues/events, MLG is the only one to have an open entry/bracket tournament that isn't invites or qualifiers. GSL is too, but the broadcasting is stretched out over a month, not 3 days.

MLG's setup will be way different in 2011 than it was in 2010, more likely closer to the Halo stage, which is very similar to the previously mentioned leagues' setups for Starcraft.
trancey
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States430 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-11 18:43:46
November 11 2010 18:42 GMT
#33
On November 11 2010 15:24 Logo wrote:
Great post; I hope the adjust the stage around for 2011. I wonder if it's like it is at all because of Halo. Is the Halo stage setup the same way? If so do you think it's intentionally done differently due to being primarily a team and console game?


MLG has been doing Halo events for almost a decade now (52 halo events total thus far), it's been their cash cow and they always manage to fill a 256 team bracket~ (most of the time even more teams) which includes 4 players per team minimum, the pro player line-ups, coaches, alternates, sponsors and console related booths, etc... More to the point, the Halo Franchise is to MLG as StarCraft 1 is to Korean eSports if I were to make it an easy analogy. (In actuality, Halo as an competitive video game probably has the 2nd biggest competitive market to StarCraft).

So basically expect SC2 to be given similar respect as Halo event has received at future events.
Snuggles
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1865 Posts
November 11 2010 18:54 GMT
#34
I hope to be pleasantly surprised by a Korean style Presentation in MLG 2011 =)
T0fuuu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia2275 Posts
November 11 2010 19:14 GMT
#35
GSL is a bit different to the other korean setups because there are 4 booths so the next players can warmup before their games and the operation runs a bit smoother. I think that a 4 booth setup would be the best for an event like MLG where many games have to be played at the same time and there is a demand for constant streaming of games.

The bad part about mlg are those pathetic curtains they have for the booth. They are not gonna stop any sound.
Peanutsc
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States295 Posts
November 11 2010 19:51 GMT
#36
On November 12 2010 03:10 Slasher wrote:
In general, GSL, WCG and BlizzCon's setups are nearly identical, with ESL following suit except they dont have soundproof booths. Out of all of these leagues/events, MLG is the only one to have an open entry/bracket tournament that isn't invites or qualifiers. GSL is too, but the broadcasting is stretched out over a month, not 3 days.

MLG's setup will be way different in 2011 than it was in 2010, more likely closer to the Halo stage, which is very similar to the previously mentioned leagues' setups for Starcraft.


Thanks for the update, Slasher. I'm looking forward to seeing what MLG has in store for us next year.

I've been to several WCG events, but they've all been in the US, so I figured I didn't have a representative enough experience to include them in my article (actually, TorcH told me this).
"You only get one life on this earth, Tasteless, and if you're not spending the majority of it playing StarCraft, I would argue that it might be wasted." "I couldn't agree more, Artosis."
PackofHighly
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States153 Posts
November 11 2010 21:38 GMT
#37
Next year THIS should be SC2

[image loading]
THIS was your PLAN?
okuraku
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States210 Posts
November 11 2010 22:09 GMT
#38
The MLG Halo setup still had the commentators behind/above the audience though right? I hope they don't use that setup, as I agree with what I believe is Peanut's main point here: The commentators should be directly in front of the audience.
http://twitch.tv/okuraku | Member of Team Legacy: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=148872
Morpheis
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3 Posts
November 11 2010 22:38 GMT
#39
I have to agree with your assessment, the Korean/Blizzcon setup is much more engaging. I really enjoyed SC2 at Blizzcon this year and having the three commentors center stage created a great synergy with the audience that really elevated the event. It's essentially the difference between watching a replay of a game on your computer versus watching the same replay professionally commented in a video, even though it the exact same match there is a world of difference.
yoplate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States332 Posts
November 11 2010 23:15 GMT
#40
Well said. Although I think MLG continues their style because of budget issues. I hope future MLG events can get inspiration from the korean tourneys.
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