On October 26 2010 12:33 StarcraftMan wrote: Yup, that's true. It's actually a safe pick to play Zerg at the top pro level. You can easily survive against any early Terran harassment with the extra range for roaches and the nerf to reapers. This means that top Zerg pros can easily FE and there is no risk of FE. Once the game is extended, it becomes more and more advantageous for zerg players.
Obviously you've never played against any competent terran...
For instance on most of the maps, hellion drops are an absolute nightmare for a zerg. There is no way of shutting them off effectively and even if you litter your base with roaches, they can usually whack around 10-15 drones before dying. All the while the terran makes marine/marauders and a-moves to victory...
Rushing to mutas doesn't work because A) you have to zero most unit production until them, leaving you totally free to attack and B) even if you manage to invest heavily enough in mutas to blast the T drops, by that time he'll have enough marines/thors to one-shot your entire group...
Most turtling terrans usually try MMM then go into mech; At which point the only way for a zerg to not risk an instant gg is to tech to broodlords as fast as possible, make 10-15 lords and only corruptors after that.
No this isn't true.
Watch some high level replays. Midgame and Lategame Zerg has plenty of power behind it. 10-15 is crazy overkill. What kind of games are you playing? Brood Lords are surprisingly useless right now. That may change of course.
oGsTheWind v MakaPrime, Game 1, in the GSL yesterday. Excellent use of Brood Lords. They're far from useless.
On October 27 2010 05:57 SmoKim wrote: LiquidTLO playing against NesTea(Zergbong) ZvZ
possible the best ZvZ i've seen so far, holy shit!!!
Maybe a lot of you don't know that programers don't care that much about the out come of ladder games. They just practice their game mechanics there. When it comes down to strategies, they keep the development within the teams they belong to. Actually Zenio's games demonstrates this clearly. If you look at what he was doing, you'd find out that he was just auto-cruising on the standard 14 hatch/pool opening. Pay attention to the first spine crawler he build. He didn't need that unit at that exact moment. He had an overlord in TLO's base and saw TLO didn't have anything to attack him. My guess is that he built it anyway because it's in the standard build. It would be useful against some sort of an early harrassment that a terran may do. For example early hellion play. His 2nd and 3rd spine clawers were reactionary when he say TLO made an army. His muta play is just the standard continuation with that opening.
What I am trying to say is that while Zenio was just practicing, TLO probably played to win since his build wont work against either a terran or a protoss. This reminds me what Idra said about people who would do anything to win on ladder games on NA servers while Korean high level players just ladder to practice game mechanics. Actually TLO's build doens't work that well even against a zerg. Go watch TLO's Blizzcon games. He used the same unit combo against Sen and Dimaga. He lost pretty badly, especially the first game against Dimaga.
We keep seeing leaked TLO winning ladder games with commentators hyping him up (remember his winning games against Boxer?). And when it comes to tournament, you'll see him getting destroyed. This is really bothersome. I'll be a TLO fan when he starts to win in tournaments and people start to lead winning ladder games against him.
On October 24 2010 22:41 meRz wrote: TLO switches due to Zerg being FOTM. No one cares.
Any other Player switches due to Zerg being FOTM -> Shit storm & Flame war.
Just an interesting thing to note.
Harsh comment but I agree... First TLO is like Terran suits me best. Then he comments "all zerg player whining about balance is childish" (on playxp) then gets pissed off that his race can't do 30 different opening and switches to zerg. Uhm, what?
Sorry if I'm getting this wrong, but that's what I am seeing =|
1.) you are likely wrong 2.) TLO played zerg on the side throughout the "zerg is up phase". He even did a day9 daily on how to over run mech play as zerg, abusing immobility etc etc.
Who cares what he plays? He could swap around every week, as long as he's entertaining us with his creative builds, unique play-styles, and top-notch games.
I wanted to note that the above games were posted mid thread (10-20 area?) by Heosat. He stated they were practice matches played back in Sept, as he was trying to convince people that TLO has been thinking about the switch for awhile -- it wasn't just an off the cuff reaction to the patch.
And honestly, I believe that being a fan doesn't always have to correlate to the person winning. Obviously you want them to win, and they do need to win, but I rather follow my dad's line of thinking. He has been a fan of the San Francisco 49ers since he was a kid growing up in the 60s/70s, and despite their looooong losing streak he has remained true to them. Thick and thin, through ridicule at work and painful seasons, he has stayed with them. They're his team.
True, football and SC are very different, but I like watching TLO play. I don't think he's the most well rounded player out there, and I think there's a lot of areas where he can improve, but he has made me a fan and I am not going to jump ship on him that easily. He might disappoint me every now and again, but it would take something drastic (cheating or the like) for me to stop being a fan.
To me, if you jump on the bandwagon just because someone is winning a lot, and then jump off when they lose, you are not really a fan. You just like them because they are/were capable of winning matches. Maybe, hmmm. . .opportunistic? (on a side note, why is it bad when people change what race they play? I'm not trying to attack anyone here -- I genuinely don't understand that viewpoint, especially when it is based on unverified hearsay)
Anyways, good luck to you TLO. Practice well, learn from your mistakes, and show us what you got. I'll be here rooting for you.
On October 27 2010 13:20 littlewisp wrote: (on a side note, why is it bad when people change what race they play? I'm not trying to attack anyone here -- I genuinely don't understand that viewpoint, especially when it is based on unverified hearsay)
I would have had no problems with TLO if only he wasn't one of the many Terrans going "Zerg are fine, ZvT is balanced" pre-patch. The fact that he said that and is now switching races after the patch bothers me. Sure, from an e-sports standpoint he's just doing what he needs to do in order to win as much as he can. But my opinion of him is still lessened.
That said, I'm still going to watch all his games. He's fun to watch.
On October 27 2010 13:20 littlewisp wrote: (on a side note, why is it bad when people change what race they play? I'm not trying to attack anyone here -- I genuinely don't understand that viewpoint, especially when it is based on unverified hearsay)
I would have had no problems with TLO if only he wasn't one of the many Terrans going "Zerg are fine, ZvT is balanced" pre-patch. The fact that he said that and is now switching races after the patch bothers me. Sure, from an e-sports standpoint he's just doing what he needs to do in order to win as much as he can. But my opinion of him is still lessened.
That said, I'm still going to watch all his games. He's fun to watch.
It has nothing to do with balance. TLO just suddenly realized that he liked playing Zerg more. It's just a coincidence both patch and race switch came same week..
I dont think this is a reflection of balance in a shape way or form. So the people who say that its because Zerg is OP, just save it.
TLO played zerg for a majority of the beta. Incontrol also stated in the "State of The Game' podcast that he has offraced with zerg alot at the progamming house.
People don''t only switch because of balance, sometimes races just fit them better. And Maybe TLO realized that.
Welcome to the Swarm TLO, glad to have you back =D
I remember his zerg games during the beta and although he definitely was great as terran, it definitely always felt like zerg was his natural race to me when watching him. I believe he stuck to T because at the time, there really was barely any viable options for zerg and it was just too frustrating, and he enjoyed T as well anyway.
But well, probably got a bit bored of T's options getting nerfed while Z's growing and Z feeling more natural to him.. tada
EPT
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