• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:28
CEST 12:28
KST 19:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.7Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2) Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Best crypto recovery experts in the world Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 33562 users

IdrA Speaks On: Patch 1.1 - Page 20

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 25 Next All
Headshot
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1656 Posts
September 24 2010 20:38 GMT
#381
Messing with damage/build time of certain units is not going to fix this game. There are serious problems with the Zerg infrastructure that only new units, and perhaps swapping the Roach and Hydralisk Den can fix. Scouting is also still going to be a problem. SC2 isn't any closer to being balanced than it was pre-1.1.
-
Jayrod
Profile Joined August 2010
1820 Posts
September 24 2010 20:55 GMT
#382
Ive read through every post on this thread and not once have I heard anyone mention an army composition that included more than 2 unit types. This isn't SC:BW... its time to evolve. Even marine/tank diversifies. This isn't SC1, blizzard isn't going to ruin the balance by making unnecessary buffs... zergs just need to explore strategies or go back to playing WoW because im sure 90% of zerg players are WoW players that whine until heroics get nerfed.
Fa1nT
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3423 Posts
September 24 2010 21:02 GMT
#383
Because using 5 different zerg units means we have to research 10-15 different expensive upgrades for speed, range, energy, attack, defense, ect?

Graven
Profile Joined June 2010
United States314 Posts
September 24 2010 21:04 GMT
#384
As has been mentioned, the #1 problem is the inability for Zerg to scout in the early game. Until that is helped, nerfing random things here and there is just a band-aid.

It's also interesting that while the main issue is in ZvT, hypothetically speaking, it should be an equal issue in ZvP; however, it's not because the Hydra works against Protoss.

Essentially, as Zerg, if you race to Hydra fast against Protoss, you're protected from anything they may have hidden for the mid-game. If they go Immortal, 4-gate, Phoenix, or VR, you're fine. By the time they can get to HT/Storm or Colossi, Zerg is able to scout and react.

Against Terran, Hydras suck, forcing Zerg to need a specific response to whatever mid-game threat Terran might be using, amplifying the problem. Currently, I almost always go for Muta against Terran, which is not ideal, it's simply the best option Zerg has.
Hoku
Profile Joined September 2010
United States129 Posts
September 24 2010 21:21 GMT
#385
Nerf bio not tank.
I put my pants on two legs at a time.
1Lamb1Rice
Profile Joined August 2010
United States435 Posts
September 24 2010 21:23 GMT
#386
On September 25 2010 06:04 Graven wrote:
As has been mentioned, the #1 problem is the inability for Zerg to scout in the early game. Until that is helped, nerfing random things here and there is just a band-aid.

It's also interesting that while the main issue is in ZvT, hypothetically speaking, it should be an equal issue in ZvP; however, it's not because the Hydra works against Protoss.

Essentially, as Zerg, if you race to Hydra fast against Protoss, you're protected from anything they may have hidden for the mid-game. If they go Immortal, 4-gate, Phoenix, or VR, you're fine. By the time they can get to HT/Storm or Colossi, Zerg is able to scout and react.

Against Terran, Hydras suck, forcing Zerg to need a specific response to whatever mid-game threat Terran might be using, amplifying the problem. Currently, I almost always go for Muta against Terran, which is not ideal, it's simply the best option Zerg has.


I agree with most of the things said here, but against protoss "racing" to hydra leaves you vulnerable to a simple 2 gate opener and you don't have an expand. If you're FE you probably aren't racing to hydra and a 4 gate will, more often than not, wipe you out.

As far as scouting, this is clearly the issue with zerg. Fix this and zerg has a chance.
twitch.tv/lambnrice @LambNRice
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-24 21:39:01
September 24 2010 21:35 GMT
#387
On September 25 2010 05:38 Headshot wrote:
Messing with damage/build time of certain units is not going to fix this game. There are serious problems with the Zerg infrastructure that only new units, and perhaps swapping the Roach and Hydralisk Den can fix. Scouting is also still going to be a problem. SC2 isn't any closer to being balanced than it was pre-1.1.

New units will NOT solve the problem, because you still have to be able to afford them both in matters of minerals/gas AND larvae. That is not possible in the early game on the tiny Blizzard maps where early harrassment or pushes will cripple the Zerg economy. This usually ends with the Zerg losing if the opponent doesnt make a mistake.

This systematic difference of the Zerg race is turned into a huge drawback by the faster development - compared to BW - of Terrans and Protoss. Sure the Queen gives extra larvae, but that doesnt really speed up the process compared to BW - where you got the extra larvae from more hatcheries - until after you have two hatcheries and two queens, but you still need to spend larvae on Drones. In any case you are at a disadvantage in your development.

On September 25 2010 05:55 Jayrod wrote:
Ive read through every post on this thread and not once have I heard anyone mention an army composition that included more than 2 unit types. This isn't SC:BW... its time to evolve. Even marine/tank diversifies. This isn't SC1, blizzard isn't going to ruin the balance by making unnecessary buffs... zergs just need to explore strategies or go back to playing WoW because im sure 90% of zerg players are WoW players that whine until heroics get nerfed.

It isnt possible for Zerg to "evolve", simply because they are hamstrung by fast Terran harrassment (Reapers or Hellions) or run over by super fast Protoss proxy Gateway pushes. Blizzard needs to make systematic changes and these probably include slowing down the Warp Gate research and increasing the size of the maps. Both of these are necessary to give Zerg the time to "evolve".
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
September 24 2010 21:40 GMT
#388
As far as scouting, this is clearly the issue with zerg. Fix this and zerg has a chance


It isn't broken so how can they fix it. Zerg has easier scouting than Protoss early game and probably late game too since detection denies most Protoss scouting.


Against Terran, Hydras suck, forcing Zerg to need a specific response to whatever mid-game threat Terran might be using, amplifying the problem


This would be more of the issue right here. Buff hydralisk so it isn't weaker than marines and a lot of it goes away. Buff roaches so they are much more viable early and part of it goes away as well. I really have never seen a compelling argument that scouting is a big issue for Zerg. The inability to deny scouting and just not having good general purpose units is the problem. Those general purpose units are supposed to be roach+hydra+zergling but most players just have to counter the zergling part.

1Lamb1Rice
Profile Joined August 2010
United States435 Posts
September 24 2010 22:01 GMT
#389
On September 25 2010 06:35 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 05:38 Headshot wrote:
Messing with damage/build time of certain units is not going to fix this game. There are serious problems with the Zerg infrastructure that only new units, and perhaps swapping the Roach and Hydralisk Den can fix. Scouting is also still going to be a problem. SC2 isn't any closer to being balanced than it was pre-1.1.

New units will NOT solve the problem, because you still have to be able to afford them both in matters of minerals/gas AND larvae. That is not possible in the early game on the tiny Blizzard maps where early harrassment or pushes will cripple the Zerg economy. This usually ends with the Zerg losing if the opponent doesnt make a mistake.

This systematic difference of the Zerg race is turned into a huge drawback by the faster development - compared to BW - of Terrans and Protoss. Sure the Queen gives extra larvae, but that doesnt really speed up the process compared to BW - where you got the extra larvae from more hatcheries - until after you have two hatcheries and two queens, but you still need to spend larvae on Drones. In any case you are at a disadvantage in your development.

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 05:55 Jayrod wrote:
Ive read through every post on this thread and not once have I heard anyone mention an army composition that included more than 2 unit types. This isn't SC:BW... its time to evolve. Even marine/tank diversifies. This isn't SC1, blizzard isn't going to ruin the balance by making unnecessary buffs... zergs just need to explore strategies or go back to playing WoW because im sure 90% of zerg players are WoW players that whine until heroics get nerfed.

It isnt possible for Zerg to "evolve", simply because they are hamstrung by fast Terran harrassment (Reapers or Hellions) or run over by super fast Protoss proxy Gateway pushes. Blizzard needs to make systematic changes and these probably include slowing down the Warp Gate research and increasing the size of the maps. Both of these are necessary to give Zerg the time to "evolve".


Finally, someone who gets it. Couldn't have said it better myself.
twitch.tv/lambnrice @LambNRice
heishe
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany2284 Posts
September 24 2010 22:04 GMT
#390
On September 25 2010 06:35 Rabiator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 05:38 Headshot wrote:
Messing with damage/build time of certain units is not going to fix this game. There are serious problems with the Zerg infrastructure that only new units, and perhaps swapping the Roach and Hydralisk Den can fix. Scouting is also still going to be a problem. SC2 isn't any closer to being balanced than it was pre-1.1.

New units will NOT solve the problem, because you still have to be able to afford them both in matters of minerals/gas AND larvae. That is not possible in the early game on the tiny Blizzard maps where early harrassment or pushes will cripple the Zerg economy. This usually ends with the Zerg losing if the opponent doesnt make a mistake.

This systematic difference of the Zerg race is turned into a huge drawback by the faster development - compared to BW - of Terrans and Protoss. Sure the Queen gives extra larvae, but that doesnt really speed up the process compared to BW - where you got the extra larvae from more hatcheries - until after you have two hatcheries and two queens, but you still need to spend larvae on Drones. In any case you are at a disadvantage in your development.

Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 05:55 Jayrod wrote:
Ive read through every post on this thread and not once have I heard anyone mention an army composition that included more than 2 unit types. This isn't SC:BW... its time to evolve. Even marine/tank diversifies. This isn't SC1, blizzard isn't going to ruin the balance by making unnecessary buffs... zergs just need to explore strategies or go back to playing WoW because im sure 90% of zerg players are WoW players that whine until heroics get nerfed.

It isnt possible for Zerg to "evolve", simply because they are hamstrung by fast Terran harrassment (Reapers or Hellions) or run over by super fast Protoss proxy Gateway pushes. Blizzard needs to make systematic changes and these probably include slowing down the Warp Gate research and increasing the size of the maps. Both of these are necessary to give Zerg the time to "evolve".


May I ask where this change in attitude comes from? For the past few weeks/months you were like the king crusader of the (at first) "ZvT / ZvP is not imbalanced" and then the "It might not be as imbalanced as you say it is, Zergs need to l2p" movements, and now this?^^ Did you switch to Zerg or something?
If you value your soul, never look into the eye of a horse. Your soul will forever be lost in the void of the horse.
Sworn
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada920 Posts
September 24 2010 22:05 GMT
#391
TvP is worse now I agree though it did help Z out against reapers I don't think it's fixed yet.
"Duty is heavy as a mountain, death is light as a feather." CJ Entus Fighting! <3 Effort
oxxo
Profile Joined February 2010
988 Posts
September 24 2010 23:02 GMT
#392
On September 25 2010 06:02 Fa1nT wrote:
Because using 5 different zerg units means we have to research 10-15 different expensive upgrades for speed, range, energy, attack, defense, ect?



Just like every other race?

Face it. Many zerg are sitting on 1-2 unit types while Terran and Protoss players are not.

It's hard to feel sorry for the Zerg players that only do hydra/roach or ling/muta while T go MMM/tank/raven or P goes zealot/stalker/sentry/HT/collosus etc. etc.
willeesmalls
Profile Joined March 2010
United States477 Posts
September 24 2010 23:07 GMT
#393
On September 25 2010 08:02 oxxo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 06:02 Fa1nT wrote:
Because using 5 different zerg units means we have to research 10-15 different expensive upgrades for speed, range, energy, attack, defense, ect?



Just like every other race?

Face it. Many zerg are sitting on 1-2 unit types while Terran and Protoss players are not.

It's hard to feel sorry for the Zerg players that only do hydra/roach or ling/muta while T go MMM/tank/raven or P goes zealot/stalker/sentry/HT/collosus etc. etc.


I'll agree with you there are unskilled zergs. But there are good zerg players who are also having trouble in the zvt matchup. The unit choices are generally due to the fact that terran has easily obtainable hard counters to 2/3 of zerg units.
1Lamb1Rice
Profile Joined August 2010
United States435 Posts
September 24 2010 23:07 GMT
#394
On September 25 2010 08:02 oxxo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2010 06:02 Fa1nT wrote:
Because using 5 different zerg units means we have to research 10-15 different expensive upgrades for speed, range, energy, attack, defense, ect?



Just like every other race?

Face it. Many zerg are sitting on 1-2 unit types while Terran and Protoss players are not.

It's hard to feel sorry for the Zerg players that only do hydra/roach or ling/muta while T go MMM/tank/raven or P goes zealot/stalker/sentry/HT/collosus etc. etc.



Well T and P only need a few different unit producing structures to make that nice composition. Zerg meanwhile needs to sac a drone/larva every time we want a different unit. Plus it takes twice as long to get the right unit comp.

For example when we scout and see that we need roaches. We must do two things: Build a roach warren and then build roaches.

Terran when they see that they need marauders only need to do one thing: Build mauraders. They already have barracks.

Nothing is out of the way for them. Barrack Factory and Starport are just 3 buildings that contain the majority of the units that they need, ghost and BC are pretty auxiliary and not imperative to any unit composition. Tech labs are inexpensive and build fast without a worker and can be swapped. Lift and land easily fixes the need for a tech lab.
twitch.tv/lambnrice @LambNRice
eiswand
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany44 Posts
September 24 2010 23:17 GMT
#395
Congrats blizzard, Tanks are useless now - especially against P.
Raid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States398 Posts
September 24 2010 23:57 GMT
#396
Terran have the advantage early game against toss but late game toss have the big advantage. They made the gap even larger by nerfing tanks and bc.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 00:32:27
September 25 2010 00:30 GMT
#397
Idra obviously makes some excellent points, and others in this thread have filled in the gaps. The interplay between Terran and Zerg forces is just awful. What do I mean?

Well, to put things in context, Terran can unlock all their tech, bar ghosts and battlecruisers, within 185 seconds of starting their first barracks, for (if memory serves) 650m/350g. That's marines, marauders, reapers, hellions, tanks, thors, medivacs, vikings, banshees and ravens. Even if he manages to scout, a Zerg player can only confidently identify mass bio; beyond that trying to divine a Terran's strategy ahead of time from the contents of his base is a guessing-game. Personally, I find it much easier to divine a Terran's strategy from the contents of my base, because that's where his army is. But I digress.

So Terran has a fuck-ton of strategic options. Cool. I don't object to that, so let's not treat that as the problem. It's just context.

Now drop a Zerg opponent into that context. Zerg's slower, costlier tech-tree (yes, I'm aware of the associated advantages, but they only really kick in much later) in conjunction with very robust unit counters and the Terran's ability to turtle, together mean that the onus is upon Zerg to correctly anticipate and prepare to repel initial aggression. Fail, and the game is over. That's already quite harsh, because it's always that way around

The real problems begin when you think about what happens if the Zerg succeeds.

If a Terran army absolutely crushes a Zerg army, having sacrificed economy to do so, he can press on and win, or at least inflict substantial economic damage. But if the Zerg inflicts an early, crushing defeat, he's screwed. He's behind economically, just as the Terran would have been, but he can't end the game, and he probably can't even inflict economic damage.

It doesn't end there, though. Every Zerg response to early aggression hands his Terran opponent another clear-cut chance to win with a fairly modest investment. Force speedlings, and a handful of hellions will snap the game in Terran's favour. Force roaches with reapers, and marauders (mass produced with the same tech buildings) swiftly trump them. Delay lair and inhibit queen production with constant harass, and banshees deliver the coup de grace. Force lair and a similar trick can be employed with different units against an inadequate Zerg army. At any stage it's very, very hard for the Terran player to overreach himself on units or economy and lose the game. Terran dominance has come about, primarily, not through the discovery of specific OP strategies but through the dawning realisation of just how devastatingly easy it is to fake out, surprise or anticipate a Zerg opponent.

In my opinion, Zerg just needs to be made less reliant on specialist, hard-countered units in the early game. In BW, all three races had solid, accessible general-purpose core units or unit combos to stabilise the matchups: marines, hydras and zealots/dragoons. In SC2, only Zerg lacks such a catch-all early game unit combo - something they can defend and/or win with - and surprise surprise, they're the race struggling the most.

The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
kmillz
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1548 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 00:35:55
September 25 2010 00:32 GMT
#398
On September 24 2010 23:44 EnderCN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 23:35 oN_Silva wrote:
Oh I remember earlier, everyone was like "Oh Why the fuck does Zerg get the Changeling, They already have the best scouting possibilty ingame"

I ain't saying that changeling is anything near the answere (coz they suck lol) but I always woundered why people kept saying zerg is best scoutin...

Coz without sacrifize overlord there is Zero scout to neiter hag nor evil



Zerg has the best mid game scouting if you are including persistent scouting. They have the 2nd best early scouting as well having it better than Protoss does. What they have is the weakest in base scouting and that is something the changeling does help wiht a little bit.

All of the scouting complaints are really complaints about how hard it is for Zerg to get counters out for different strats. Protoss can counter every early build with just gateway units, Zerg can pick the wrong path to go down and lose if they can't scout in base early enough.


Zerg has the best mid game scouting? really? This is news to me, last I checked suiciding a ling at a ramp usually gives little to no information about what tech the opponent is going. Sacking a floating supply depot is a pretty expensive a way to get information, especially when you have to do it over and over again. I'd rather have scans or an observer any day. Not to mention that until I pay another 100/100 for speed that floating supply depot takes like a year to get to his base and usually is sniped before information is gained without this speed.
crw
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada70 Posts
September 25 2010 00:35 GMT
#399
agreed heavily
Zerg need heavy buffs from Tier 1 to tier 3, against Terran and Protoss. blizzard needs to get on the ball or lose SC2 as an eSports venue.
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-25 00:45:28
September 25 2010 00:40 GMT
#400
On September 25 2010 09:32 kmillz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2010 23:44 EnderCN wrote:
On September 24 2010 23:35 oN_Silva wrote:
Oh I remember earlier, everyone was like "Oh Why the fuck does Zerg get the Changeling, They already have the best scouting possibilty ingame"

I ain't saying that changeling is anything near the answere (coz they suck lol) but I always woundered why people kept saying zerg is best scoutin...

Coz without sacrifize overlord there is Zero scout to neiter hag nor evil



Zerg has the best mid game scouting if you are including persistent scouting. They have the 2nd best early scouting as well having it better than Protoss does. What they have is the weakest in base scouting and that is something the changeling does help wiht a little bit.

All of the scouting complaints are really complaints about how hard it is for Zerg to get counters out for different strats. Protoss can counter every early build with just gateway units, Zerg can pick the wrong path to go down and lose if they can't scout in base early enough.


Zerg has the best mid game scouting? really? This is news to me, last I checked suiciding a ling at a ramp usually gives little to no information about what tech the opponent is going. Sacking a floating supply depot is a pretty expensive a way to get information, especially when you have to do it over and over again. I'd rather have scans or an observer any day. Not to mention that until I pay another 100/100 for speed that floating supply depot takes like a year to get to his base and usually is sniped before information is gained without this speed.


You are only looking at half of what scouting is though. Holding towers, overlords, creep tumors are all scouting. Watch an IdrA game and by mid game he sees at least 50% of the map at all times. He almost always sees exactly what is coming way before it reaches him, high end Terran players largely play in the dark mid game outside of scans. That is why I said they have weak in base scouting, it is hard for them to scout what is inside a base. They can use overseers and changelings to do this as well as mutalisk. Observers are nice but they are incredibly easy to deny in base scouting with and Terran pretty much has vikings and scans and sensor towers. It is pretty close between Terran and Zerg.

If all you are talking about is seeing specifically what is in someones base then yeah it goes Terran > Zerg > Protoss early game and Terran > Zerg = Protoss late game. When you add persistent scouting Zerg takes over though.

None of that changes my point though. If roach+hydra were a viable combo mid game Zerg wouldn't really NEED in base scouting just like Protoss doesn't. It would be nice but not needed. The fact that their main army units just aren't strong enough is severely limiting.
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 25 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #94
CranKy Ducklings94
LiquipediaDiscussion
GSL Code S
08:00
Semi-Finals & Finals
Rogue vs ClassicLIVE!
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Hui .130
Rex 56
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5230
Rain 4847
Bisu 2112
Horang2 993
Pusan 734
Larva 673
BeSt 344
Stork 209
Mini 207
Leta 119
[ Show more ]
Hyun 110
hero 109
Killer 107
EffOrt 106
Last 87
Soulkey 79
ToSsGirL 51
sSak 49
Aegong 37
ZerO 30
Barracks 28
Shinee 28
JulyZerg 20
HiyA 17
Noble 12
Movie 10
Hm[arnc] 6
ivOry 5
SilentControl 5
eros_byul 1
Dota 2
XcaliburYe576
Fuzer 156
Pyrionflax106
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1038
flusha494
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0376
Mew2King112
Westballz19
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor300
Other Games
singsing1579
XaKoH 448
ZerO(Twitch)3
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream9262
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream6038
Other Games
gamesdonequick635
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 40
• Adnapsc2 17
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2159
League of Legends
• Stunt623
• HappyZerGling89
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Qualifier
5h 32m
BSL: ProLeague
7h 32m
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
13h 32m
Wardi Open
1d
Replay Cast
1d 13h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
RSL Revival
1d 23h
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
SC Evo League
6 days
Circuito Brasileiro de…
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-06-11
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.