""''and even in BW, players like Boxer, Nada, Bisu etc. showing that brilliant players will be able to rise over the less gifted ones"""

While without a doubt I agree with Boxer and Bisu in this statement I would think about things before you spout them out.

Nada was one of your first fundamentals "Mechanical style of play" that your referring to. Most people did not play SC1 this far back and may not be aware of that. I also find it funny that no one else has noticed it yet.

mardi

United States1164 Posts

September 21 2010 01:24 GMT

#42

Imo, i think its game intelligence and game sense that matters. Once everyone's mechanics and multitasking and decision making are top tier, its their game sense that will bring them to the top. Intelligence would ideally help you as it helps you learn everything in life but some parts of the game comes from your innate talent imo.

ooni

Australia1498 Posts

September 21 2010 01:24 GMT

#43

Answer:
You don't have to be smart...
But if you are dumb you will suck at RTS in general...

dave333

United States915 Posts

September 21 2010 01:28 GMT

#44

There's always different kinds of intelligence and SC no doubt requires a certain kind of intellect, one that can try to anticipate what your opponent is going to do.

Maybe this doesn't happen in SC2 yet (still kind of limited) but there are so many strategies and openers in BW and it takes a good analytical mind to try to predict what your opponent will do and what you should do. A lot of it is game theory, and I'm sure many of the to pros are very good at that in tournaments.

Gecko

United States519 Posts

September 21 2010 01:28 GMT

#45

If you were really "dumb' then starcraft would probably not be interesting to you in the first place.

UniversalSnip

9871 Posts

September 21 2010 01:28 GMT

#46

I can't speak to sc specifically, but I think in order to play any decent game at a high level you need quick thinking rather than deep thinking.

So no, you don't have to be especially intelligent generally, just more intelligent than your opponent within a specific time-frame.

Uncultured

United States1340 Posts

September 21 2010 01:29 GMT

#47

Do you have to be smart to play? No. Anyone can play.

I think the problem with this topic is defining "smart." Something that I believe the entire world has been hard-pressed to do. We all have varying levels of ability, knowledge, ideas, and mechanical skill. How we use them can affect our games in varying ways. Does it need to be any more complicated than that?

Lucktar

United States526 Posts

September 21 2010 01:29 GMT

#48

It's pretty obvious that having good mechanics and build orders will get you a long way in SC2. Eventually though, the best build orders will be found, and mechanical skills will plateau. When that happens, the player who out-thinks his opponent will win. I don't think smarts will ever be a basic necessity for being decent at starcraft 2, but it will separate the merely good players from the great ones.

mOnion

United States5657 Posts

September 21 2010 01:31 GMT

#49

On September 21 2010 10:23 KezseN wrote:
Whts with the machine joke? i dont get it

read muh quote

in BW machine was zerg. pure mechanics and apm. kid had like 300 apmz which is sick for a foreigner, especially US. but he was pants on head retarded when it came to anything but macro. his micro was terrible, spurring the quote by his team, EG

"MACHINEEEEE MICROOOOOO"

alluding to terrible micro occurring. its a normal joke on the team that machine is awful. mostly because he is.

barrykp

Ireland174 Posts

September 21 2010 01:41 GMT

#50

I don't think it requires as much intelligence as say, chess, but generally speaking, most top Starcraft players I've seen come across as pretty intelligent.

Many people think that to become a professional chess player one needs to be very intelligent. To reach the top 10 in the world this is undoubtedly true, but there are ordinary professional chess players with IQ scores below average.

Intelligence helps of course, but becoming a professional chess player really just requires lots of memorisation and training. The most important trait is probably motivation (the desire to win). Many famous chess players are notoriously bad losers. If you want a chess equivalent of idrA probably the best example is Viktor Korchnoi, who levelled all sorts of accusations (hypnosis, psychology, spying etc etc) against his opponents, and frequently trash talked them (relatively speaking that is - obviously the things he said might seem tame to someone used to 21st-Century internet forums).

Anyway I suspect the same is true of starcraft 2. If you have a strong desire to win and you do the right kind of training those 2 things are more important than your intelligence.

Tenks

United States3104 Posts

September 21 2010 01:42 GMT

#51

I guess it depends how you define 'smart.' Will extreme in depth knowledge of Calculus help you? Doubtful. Will being a great poet and master wordsmith help you? Doubt it. Will having a perfect SAT help you? Doubt it. You just have to play a certain amount and you'll know what you need to do. Playing Starcraft isn't exactly rocket surgery out there.

Duravi

United States1205 Posts

September 21 2010 01:43 GMT

#52

To memorize the basics and get diamond on ladder no. To be adaptable to other excellent players strats you undoubtedly have to be a smart person.

GiantEnemyCrab

Canada503 Posts

September 21 2010 01:43 GMT

#53

u dont rly need to be smart, its not that complicated to begin with u just need to perfect mechanics

Authweight

United States304 Posts

September 21 2010 01:49 GMT

#54

Intelligence is not an unchangeable property of a person, or at least specialized intelligence isn't. It is true that Korean style mass gaming will win games. This is in large part because mass games make you smarter, at least when it comes to starcraft. The initial argument that "oh all you need to do is mass games to be good, therefore it requires no intelligence to play" is fundamentally flawed. If you put boxer and einstein in a match together, boxer is actually the more intelligent person as far as gameplay goes. This is because he has a deep understanding of the game, whereas einstein has to rely on his intuition, which in starcraft is often misleading.

Williowa

129 Posts

September 21 2010 01:53 GMT

#55

Do you need to be smart to be a QB in football? No, you just need a general understanding of the game.

Being smart though makes players like Peyton Manning get constant praise for being brilliant for what the casual observer looks at simply as being a good QB not a smart QB.

latan

740 Posts

September 21 2010 01:57 GMT

#56

to play, no. to be great at it, of course. this is the case in most games.

it could be argued how much actual strategy is involved in starcraft, but being smart will always help you in one way or another.

Gentlebite

United States132 Posts

September 21 2010 01:58 GMT

#57

Thinking and mechanic goes to many other physical sports in their own way

L_Master

United States8017 Posts

September 21 2010 01:59 GMT

#58

If you don't have to have any intelligence for the game why is it that we only see certain players that are really able to effectively create great builds, or be able to make subtle modifications to builds.

If it didn't take any intelligence we should see almost every player being able to come up with great new strategies, yet most don't do so.

Yes, mechanics are still a major player, and if your mechanics are above the level of most of your opponents you can still do well, simple because there does exist a framework within which the game is played, so even if you can't innovate or improvise super well, by just microing better, macroing better, more multitask you can still give players a fight through sheer fundamental play. Think of a golfer that has the ability to hit genius shots, he has wonderful control of the ball, can really work a shot any way he wants, great imagination, etc, but he has kind of a lose and sloppy swing and hits the ball only 240 yards. He has genius, but not great fundamentals. Player B on the other hand only has one shot, but he does it well and has alot more distance. Player A is going to struggle with B because B is hitting such shorter shots that regardless of his lack of creativity hes just going to put the ball in their closer to the hole more regularly than A, despite A's genius. It's similar in starcraft; if you're able to out macro and out multitask your opponent you can still be able to win even without brilliant strategy because he can't keep up.

At the top level though that tends to be reduced because everyone has great mechanics. There is a reason the top BW players like Flash and Jaedong are also known to be some of the smartest and most creative players; they all have great mechanics at that level, so its your ability to innovate and adapt that really seperates very good from true S class.

SaikOuLighT

Canada742 Posts

September 21 2010 01:59 GMT

#59

You definitely need a good general understanding of the game to go with your mechanics, no matter how good they are, because everyone can get good at mechanics. However, i feel like if you want to separate yourself from the rest of the crop, you will need an even deeper understanding of the game, such as all the intricate timings in every matchup.

Shakes

Australia557 Posts

September 21 2010 02:01 GMT

#60

My understanding is that the average Korean SC pro-gamer practices 12+ hours a day and earns less than someone working at McDonalds. Even if you want to bring "living the dream" or "doing what you love" into it, it doesn't exactly scream smart to me.