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On June 20 2012 12:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:36 Shaddar wrote:On June 20 2012 12:34 s3rp wrote:On June 20 2012 12:32 Shaddar wrote:On June 20 2012 12:31 s3rp wrote:On June 20 2012 12:28 Plansix wrote:On June 20 2012 12:26 LambtrOn wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 elmizzt wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 LambtrOn wrote:On June 20 2012 12:23 elmizzt wrote:
When will people understand that it's the personalities on the show, not the race they play/discuss, that make it awesome? Why can't it be both? Because 1 person can only play 1 race? Why can't we have good personalities that represent all races? For the same reason that everyone can win at musical chairs, not everyone gets what they want. I also think there's not many personalities that play terran at a high enough level willing to get on a show like this with enough of a standing , especially in the NA scene. Bro, avilo. Have you not been reading the thread? He doesn't exactly have a high enough standing with the NA same with Pokebunny i guess. They're good players thats not the problem. I know I was being sarcastic lol. They should really get Demuslim on Edit: or Thorzain The issue with having Demu and or Thorzain on is then the show will become an EG circle jerk and that will just piss more people off. I'm fine with it personally as I find them all really great personalities and a perfect fit for the show its just most people will shift from no terran to too much EG
Wait, are you telling me that if they fixed the "problem" a small section of the views would then find another "problem"? Do you think they would then go to the forums and post about this new "problem" and demand someone respond?
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people take the name State of the Game too literally. The show isn't about the state of the game, its about hearing the pillars just talking starcraft and having fun.
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You know what, if they want a Terran perspective on their show next time, I'd be willing to get on with them. I understand they do not want to randomly promote a player like me into their old gentlemen's club though. I am very articulate in discussions, especially when it comes to the "State of the Game" so if they're willing to have me on for just only 1 show I would be up for it and do no more after that.
Otherwise, i'd appreciate it if these guys
a) Stop downtalking players in the community (myself and others)/being condescending as hell. THey do this like it's absolutely nothing all the time and think nothing of it because of the cozy position they are in.
b) Realize that they have a lot of weight in the community, and if they're going to have a legitimate discussion about the "State of the Game" they need an informed Terran player on the show.
Their discussion/balance talk about Terran was absolutely disgusting and had no counter-arguments at all. A lot of people watch their show and take their word for what it is, which is sad.
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On June 20 2012 12:47 jmbthirteen wrote:
people take the name State of the Game too literally. The show isn't about the state of the game, its about hearing the pillars just talking starcraft and having fun.
Exactly, it's fucking ep71 so nobody should be surprised how it went down.
If I was JP and I take the time to call people up to set this show up and I see all the shit comments I would shut it down immediately.
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On June 20 2012 12:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:27 McFeser wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 elmizzt wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 LambtrOn wrote:On June 20 2012 12:23 elmizzt wrote:
When will people understand that it's the personalities on the show, not the race they play/discuss, that make it awesome? Why can't it be both? Because 1 person can only play 1 race? Morrow. Personally, I don't care about the racial distribution on the show. I just care if it's going to be fucking on or not, and JP worrying about the terran perspective isn't going to help. I am with this man. I will take SotG in any form is shows up, as long as it has EGIncontrol, funny stories about broodwar, mocking Europe as a whole, Artosis being confused by the internet, Nony not responding to anything and JP just trying to the the show forward and get sponsors. Oh yeah, and Idra's one liners. Those have become a staple too. Having a terran on the show is the last thing I am concerned about. If you want that, watch Inside the Game, they have it covered.
Morrow would actually be REALLY interesting to hear from considering his race picking. He still sticks with TvZ and ZvT.
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Waiting for the VOD/mp3, will it be up by tonight?
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On June 20 2012 12:39 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:12 Nimic wrote:On June 20 2012 12:09 nkr wrote:On June 20 2012 12:05 Nimic wrote:On June 20 2012 12:03 happyness wrote:On June 20 2012 11:42 Nimic wrote:On June 20 2012 11:40 happyness wrote:On June 20 2012 11:25 LambtrOn wrote:On June 20 2012 11:23 walklightwhat wrote:On June 20 2012 11:21 Dzerzhinsky wrote:
People aren't saying that you shouldn't discuss Terran. People are saying that discussion of Terran balance issues would be infinitely more interesting if there was an actual Terran player involved to provide that perspective (rather than just having Zergs and Protosses mock Terran players for 15 minutes). Why? They did the same thing when Zerg was struggling, they either had IdrA on and argued with/made fun of him or made fun of him when he wasn't there. People just want a Terran on there to validate their own complaints. Because it's fucking State of the Game and they should discuss topics with all view points heard. There was no terran to defend the race. It's getting a little ridiculous. We deserve a terran player!! How dare they take away what we are entitled too!! I demand the show to conform exactly to my wants! ....-_- Seriously, people need to lighten up. This show is meant for some entertaining figures in the SC2 community to discuss starcraft, and that's it. Why do some members of the community need to complain about what this show "ought" to be? Just enjoy it. If you can't, then don't listen. How incredibly juvenile. No one has said that they're going to stop watching (or if someone has, why focus on them? Most of us aren't). No one has said that SotG should be exactly like this. Building up these ridiculous straw men that you can easily take apart doesn't make you look smart. I never said anyone said SotG should be exactly like anything, nor did I say anyone said they were going to stop watching. Did you read my post? I was simply pointing out that the constant whining from some (not all) is ridiculous and comes off as being entitled, and if some are going to get so angry maybe they shouldn't watch the show. Suggestions are good for this thread, being a whiny bitch is not. What? You literally said that. I demand the show to conform exactly to my wants! ....-_- are you serious? :O If you're referring to his obvious parody, then yes, I realize he was pretending to be someone else. My point was never that he wants it to conform exactly to his wants, but that that is what he suggested the rest of us think. I quoted that because he then said he never suggested that people wanted SotG to be exactly like anything, when.. yeah, that's literally what he did. You know what, I'm sorry, you are right, and I'm sort of an idiot for not seeing that. The first part of my post was not meant to be taken seriously. It was just supposed to be a silly, over-the-top impersonation of all the whiners that are unfortunately all too prevalent in this thread. I really wish it would stop because this thread is 99% shit unfortunately for such a great show.
Okay, fair enough. I do agree that there are some idiots around, who generally say stupid things. But people focus too much on them. It's largely why reddit has such a bad reputation. Just look at iNcontroL. He's always been fairly critical of reddit, because some people at reddit have been fairly hateful towards him. But most haven't. And he definitely saw that this weekend (and admitted as much at reddit itself, which was nice).
I just wish people would just ignore the blatant trolls and idiots, so the rest of us can get on with reasonable discussion.
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On June 20 2012 12:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:43 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 20 2012 12:36 Shaddar wrote:On June 20 2012 12:34 s3rp wrote:On June 20 2012 12:32 Shaddar wrote:On June 20 2012 12:31 s3rp wrote:On June 20 2012 12:28 Plansix wrote:On June 20 2012 12:26 LambtrOn wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 elmizzt wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 LambtrOn wrote:
[quote]
Why can't it be both? Because 1 person can only play 1 race? Why can't we have good personalities that represent all races? For the same reason that everyone can win at musical chairs, not everyone gets what they want. I also think there's not many personalities that play terran at a high enough level willing to get on a show like this with enough of a standing , especially in the NA scene. Bro, avilo. Have you not been reading the thread? He doesn't exactly have a high enough standing with the NA same with Pokebunny i guess. They're good players thats not the problem. I know I was being sarcastic lol. They should really get Demuslim on Edit: or Thorzain The issue with having Demu and or Thorzain on is then the show will become an EG circle jerk and that will just piss more people off. I'm fine with it personally as I find them all really great personalities and a perfect fit for the show its just most people will shift from no terran to too much EG Wait, are you telling me that if they fixed the "problem" a small section of the views would then find another "problem"? Do you think they would then go to the forums and post about this new "problem" and demand someone respond?
Its easy to solve the lack of terran problems without creating the "too much EG potential" is all I'm saying. Its been mentioned before but qxc/illusion would make absolutely great guests (and qxc has been at least once) if they wanted intelligent a euro player I'd imagine (depending on availability of course) Morrow would be the absolute perfect guest for SotG
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On June 20 2012 12:50 avilo wrote:
You know what, if they want a Terran perspective on their show next time, I'd be willing to get on with them. I understand they do not want to randomly promote a player like me into their old gentlemen's club though. I am very articulate in discussions, especially when it comes to the "State of the Game" so if they're willing to have me on for just only 1 show I would be up for it and do no more after that.
Otherwise, i'd appreciate it if these guys
a) Stop downtalking players in the community (myself and others)/being condescending as hell. THey do this like it's absolutely nothing all the time and think nothing of it because of the cozy position they are in.
b) Realize that they have a lot of weight in the community, and if they're going to have a legitimate discussion about the "State of the Game" they need an informed Terran player on the show.
Their discussion/balance talk about Terran was absolutely disgusting and had no counter-arguments at all. A lot of people watch their show and take their word for what it is, which is sad.
They didn't bring you on because they didn't want you on.
No means no so just stop harping on it.
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I watch the show simply to laugh. I couldn't care less about balance arguments because they are pointless.
Also, there's a reason most pros dont hold Avilo in high regard. I do not think he would be a good "voice" for the Terran community.
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On June 20 2012 12:50 avilo wrote:
You know what, if they want a Terran perspective on their show next time, I'd be willing to get on with them. I understand they do not want to randomly promote a player like me into their old gentlemen's club though.
why the hell would they want you on when you say things like that, bro? think clearly for a second here. if you said something like that to me i would certainly not let you on my damn show. in fact i would probably ban you from ever being on the show or even being mentioned on the show. i mean c'mon now.
I am very articulate in discussions
you are also being kind of rude...
Otherwise, i'd appreciate it if these guys
a) Stop downtalking players in the community (myself and others)/being condescending as hell. THey do this like it's absolutely nothing all the time and think nothing of it because of the cozy position they are in.
b) Realize that they have a lot of weight in the community, and if they're going to have a legitimate discussion about the "State of the Game" they need an informed Terran player on the show.
a) i didn't hear them downtalking you, and even if they do... so what? half the people in the chat didn't even know who you were. i'm not saying that to be a dick, im saying that even if they downtalk you... how does that hurt you? and why does THAT make you want to go on the show? who would go onto a show where the hosts are "downtalking" you?
b) i really don't think them not having a terran is going to 1) change anyones opinion on anything or 2) do anything at all. like it will literally have no effect whatsoever. i highly doubt that Blizzard is desperately watching every SoTG episode and basing their balance decisions on what SoTG says.
David Kim: "Oh guys, hey you know how terran's are struggling, well SoTG said that they should just deal with it, so i guess our jobs done."
^ does that in any way sound realistic to you?
Their discussion/balance talk about Terran was absolutely disgusting
oh yeah, they should definitely have you on the show. you would totally be just wonderful... i always like to surround myself with people who call my discussions disgusting...
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I still think they at least should be better informed when talking Terran especially the Casters. I know they don't really play Terran and everything but at least don't just dismiss everything.
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I personally think that SOTG should have a Terran on the panel. It was nice of Geoff to bring up avilo's name and contrary to what Pokebunny said, many Terran's watch avilo's stream only, because of his perspective on the race.
When I looked at chat, it was loaded with "Call avilo." SOTG would be much more effective in my opinion if it wasn't so z/p biased.
P.S. to pokebunny, lol, little fellow, you've hated avilo since VT, who are you kidding!
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Terran just need to learn to Nydus.
Nobody was giving Terran shit advice. They basicaly were saying that there might be a shift in the game and with such a big change it might take time to figure out how to swing stuff. They're simply not ultra-reactionary and calling that Terran is ungodly underpowered. I just don't get what people think having a more in-depth or thurough balane talk even achieves.
Thinking back to EVERY sotg I've seen (I think all of them), I don't remember a single constructive balance talk ever. It always ends in a stalemate and then this thread turns into a pissing match between two sides arguing who made the better points or some bull shit. If anything, I'd prefer LESS balance talk on SotG. Bring up maybe some obvious points or criticism/concern, and then move on.
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On June 20 2012 12:56 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:50 avilo wrote:
You know what, if they want a Terran perspective on their show next time, I'd be willing to get on with them. I understand they do not want to randomly promote a player like me into their old gentlemen's club though.
why the hell would they want you on when you say things like that, bro? think clearly for a second here. if you said something like that to me i would certainly not let you on my damn show. in fact i would probably ban you from ever being on the show or even being mentioned on the show. i mean c'mon now. you are also being kind of rude... Show nested quote +
Otherwise, i'd appreciate it if these guys
a) Stop downtalking players in the community (myself and others)/being condescending as hell. THey do this like it's absolutely nothing all the time and think nothing of it because of the cozy position they are in.
b) Realize that they have a lot of weight in the community, and if they're going to have a legitimate discussion about the "State of the Game" they need an informed Terran player on the show.
a) i didn't hear them downtalking you, and even if they do... so what? half the people in the chat didn't even know who you were. i'm not saying that to be a dick, im saying that even if they downtalk you... how does that hurt you? and why does THAT make you want to go on the show? who would go onto a show where the hosts are "downtalking" you? b) i really don't think them not having a terran is going to 1) change anyones opinion on anything or 2) do anything at all. like it will literally have no effect whatsoever. i highly doubt that Blizzard is desperately watching every SoTG episode and basing their balance decisions on what SoTG says. David Kim: "Oh guys, hey you know how terran's are struggling, well SoTG said that they should just deal with it, so i guess our jobs done." ^ does that in any way sound realistic to you? oh yeah, they should definitely have you on the show. you would totally be just wonderful... i always like to surround myself with people who call my discussions disgusting...
Please stop bashing random people for your beliefs.
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On June 20 2012 12:35 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:27 McFeser wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 elmizzt wrote:On June 20 2012 12:24 LambtrOn wrote:On June 20 2012 12:23 elmizzt wrote:
When will people understand that it's the personalities on the show, not the race they play/discuss, that make it awesome? Why can't it be both? Because 1 person can only play 1 race? Morrow. Personally, I don't care about the racial distribution on the show. I just care if it's going to be fucking on or not, and JP worrying about the terran perspective isn't going to help. I am with this man. I will take SotG in any form is shows up, as long as it has EGIncontrol, funny stories about broodwar, mocking Europe as a whole, Artosis being confused by the internet, Nony not responding to anything and JP just trying to the the show forward and get sponsors. Oh yeah, and Idra's one liners. Those have become a staple too. Having a terran on the show is the last thing I am concerned about. If you want that, watch Inside the Game, they have it covered.
On June 20 2012 12:47 jmbthirteen wrote:
people take the name State of the Game too literally. The show isn't about the state of the game, its about hearing the pillars just talking starcraft and having fun.
These posts nailed it. Very true.
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On June 20 2012 12:47 jmbthirteen wrote:
people take the name State of the Game too literally. The show isn't about the state of the game, its about hearing the pillars just talking starcraft and having fun.
Then what's the point of even talking about all the things they talk about? Why can't the show be funny, entertaining while also covering major topics? It doesn't need to be black and white. I watch for both reasons. There aren't many shows out there like this, especially with the cast of this caliber. They've had good quality discussions on many important things in the past while still keeping it entertaining. That's why I personally watch the show. It's lame when they just say a few sentences about something and then just move on. It's a talk show after all... but I digress.
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On June 20 2012 12:52 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2012 12:50 avilo wrote:
You know what, if they want a Terran perspective on their show next time, I'd be willing to get on with them. I understand they do not want to randomly promote a player like me into their old gentlemen's club though. I am very articulate in discussions, especially when it comes to the "State of the Game" so if they're willing to have me on for just only 1 show I would be up for it and do no more after that.
Otherwise, i'd appreciate it if these guys
a) Stop downtalking players in the community (myself and others)/being condescending as hell. THey do this like it's absolutely nothing all the time and think nothing of it because of the cozy position they are in.
b) Realize that they have a lot of weight in the community, and if they're going to have a legitimate discussion about the "State of the Game" they need an informed Terran player on the show.
Their discussion/balance talk about Terran was absolutely disgusting and had no counter-arguments at all. A lot of people watch their show and take their word for what it is, which is sad.
They didn't bring you on because they didn't want you on. No means no so just stop harping on it.
I feel like hes the kind of guy who gets turned down by a girl he just stalks them and keeps asking for a date.
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Ugh. I didnt get to see the stream  Will have to settle for a VOD but just a few things:
1) Avilo, you are being far to aggressive in your approach. If your threads and your responses had more composure and articulation perhaps they would be considered but even then you're on a different level then they are and it would likely not lead to good discussion.
2) Incontrol you are DA MAN. That is all.
3) I trust anything SOTG suggests even if i disagree with it. These guys are some of the most knowledgeable players in the scene and what they say is quite nearly "gospel". Although i think that the TvZ imbalance spike is more than metagame and that it's far too significant to be shrugged off if there are alternative strategies I will go for them.
4) I think that it's a reasonable census that SOTG should get a Terran pillar. IDK who it would be, perhaps QXC, but it really is a bit imposing to have general balance talk encompass match ups and strategies that are not actually represented. Artosis and Incontrol obviously have tremendous game knowledge from casting, hell even day9 would make things a bit better for me but given that he was not available i feel like a replacement is needed. It's not too much to ask for a Terran player or AT LEAST day9 to be on every now and then to try and keep a measured view of things.
I wont lie. I felt as if the pillars kind of ganged up on "terran" as a whole, and i dont really appreciate having someone address me, even in a impersonal matter, with saying that i dont deserve the placement i have. Even in light of supposed imba strategies such as this queen build, mass mutalisk, mass ghost etc etc I would never say that guilt lies on the player conducting the strategy. Things may get harder but it I feel as if it is either A) Blizzard's responsibility to correct it or B) The player's responsibility to overcome it. C) Try and be less insulting please. If i remember correctly you never insulted the protosses who complained about mass mutalisk to such a degree.
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On June 20 2012 13:01 Arkansassy wrote:
I personally think that SOTG should have a Terran on the panel. It was nice of Geoff to bring up avilo's name and contrary to what Pokebunny said, many Terran's watch avilo's stream only, because of his perspective on the race.
When I looked at chat, it was loaded with "Call avilo." SOTG would be much more effective in my opinion if it wasn't so z/p biased.
P.S. to pokebunny, lol, little fellow, you've hated avilo since VT, who are you kidding!
I've never had any problem personally with avilo, I don't know where you got the idea that I hated him. He's a good person, good player with an interesting style but is just sometimes a bit misdirected in his opinions imo. I don't see where you see personal bias on my opinion.
The Terrans that you are talking about that watch avilo's stream are not professional Terrans. I apologize, I meant that most high level players have differing opinions.
I agree that it is Z/P biased and I think having any terran is better than none, but that doesn't mean I have to think avilo would be good on SotG.
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