EPTOfficial State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 174
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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Clamev
Germany498 Posts
when will people learn this. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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-Erik-
115 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:36 Clamev wrote: the Word Fag does not have anything to do with being Homosexual <.< when will people learn this. :/ fag (fag) Pronunciation:/fag/ noun North American informal , derogatory * a male homosexual From the English Oxford Dictionary, not that it needed quoting because it obviously is associated Now i dont for a minute think anyone on the podcast is a homophobe in any sense but in e-sports in general it does suck that "fag" and "faggot" are words so commonly used. I know words are given meaning through intent and i know no-one on the podcasts intends to be derogatory to gay people but the fact that the word is used and used in so common a parlance is the thing that sucks. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:36 Clamev wrote: the Word Fag does not have anything to do with being Homosexual <.< when will people learn this. Yes and kraut means cabbage. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:41 Dental Floss wrote: You're 14 if you think that. When you get into the real world you will actually meet people who are homosexual and understand that in this day and age its like saying "the word niggardly doesn't have anything to do with race" Its complete nonsense. Okay, the word "niggardly" actually doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with race, unless you're a complete moron. It's like complaining that "History" is a sexist word. The fact that "niggardly" kinda sounds like the N word has nothing to do with why "fag" is derogatory. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:55 Dental Floss wrote: Okay, go say it in public and report back to me. Right after I go tell everyone in England that their word for female undergarments also sounds kinda racist. | ||
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ensis
Germany340 Posts
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Pyrthas
United States3196 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:41 Dental Floss wrote: Nah, it's not like that. "Niggardly" is tainted by association, obviously, but as far as I know it itself has never been used to refer to skin color.You're 14 if you think that. When you get into the real world you will actually meet people who are homosexual and understand that in this day and age its like saying "the word niggardly doesn't have anything to do with race" Its complete nonsense. Still, I agree with the overall sentiment. Words aren't used in isolation, and histories of marginalization, and even outright oppression, can make certain words and phrases harmful even if they aren't intended that way at all. There was a nice letter written to (not by) Roger Ebert on this topic when Tropic Thunder came out, which I encourage everyone to read. (Edit: If you have the time and care about this, go read it now, and then come back and finish this post. It's better than what I have to say anyway.) Sometimes we, as a society, can help eliminate discrimination by making certain things, which come from a history of discrimination, simply unacceptable to say or do. This doesn't have to be because everybody who says those things means them harmfully—that's simply false, of course. Nobody is saying that anybody on SotG is setting out to bash people who are sexually attracted to members of the same gender. This is similar to the problem with jokes about ethnic minorities, women in traditionally male-dominated parts of society, etc. In a perfect world, we could make any joke we wanted, using any word we wanted, about any topic we wanted. But we don't live in a perfect world, and some words and ideas are irrevocably associated with the terribly unfair treatment of some group or other, and sometimes we'll get to a much fairer treatment much faster if we simply stop using those words or tacitly (and unintentionally) reinforcing those ideas. | ||
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Tropics
United Kingdom1132 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:41 Dental Floss wrote: You're 14 if you think that. When you get into the real world you will actually meet people who are homosexual and understand that in this day and age its like saying "the word niggardly doesn't have anything to do with race" Its complete nonsense. love how you try to sound smart then use niggardly as an example when that literally has no relation to race outside of sounding vaguely like a slur. and quite frankly to the vast majority of people in the average sc player age group (late teens early twenties) faggot really doesn't have any relation to sexual preference. sure, dictionary definition it might be but context is so important. i use the word a lot and so do most of my friends and its pretty much a synonym for asshole at this point. watch the south park episode about it, words evolve. | ||
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kojinshugi
Estonia2559 Posts
On November 04 2010 23:08 Pyrthas wrote:There was a nice letter written to (not by) Roger Ebert on this topic when Tropic Thunder came out, which I encourage everyone to read. (Edit: If you have the time and care about this, go read it now, and then come back and finish this post. It's better than what I have to say anyway.) I did read it and I thoroughly disagree with the type of thinking that leads to arguments like that. At the end of the day, grow a thicker skin. Wait, shit, now I offended scleroderma sufferers. The point being made in Tropic Thunder is served by the use of that word. The word "retard" started out as descriptive and neutral. It was turned into a shorthand derogatory term for mentally disabled people. You can invent euphemisms like "special" or "differently abled", but they become sarcastic derogatory terms. Can you really tell your friend that they're "special" these days without having to caveat that you don't mean "that kind of special"? The problem isn't the words we use, the problem is the attitude we have towards mentally disabled people. Shuffling around terminology doesn't change that in the slightest. The reason you shouldn't go "full retard" in Hollywood is because we as a society have to assign mentally disabled people magical powers to accept them. Most autistic people aren't Rain Men. Most people with IQs of 60 aren't going to be Forrest Gump. We don't want to face those conditions head on so we either gussy them up as something more palatable, or we just turn the whole concept into a joke. Playing word police doesn't do a damn thing about it. | ||
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Dash27
United States51 Posts
On November 04 2010 22:30 Dental Floss wrote: One criticism that hasn't been brought up in this thread yet (wow I found one) is how you guys always use at least 1 homophobic smear per episode. Being gay is awesome and you should be careful using words like queer and fag because these episodes are recorded and it could come back to bite you if you have something so bigoted on-the-record. Considering that each of you might have a professional future in e-sports it doesn't seem wise to be saying that kind of thing. This is the political correctness argument. I can see the point you're making but in the end this seems to come down to individual intent and individual feelings. You may be offended by it, or you may not. The person using the word may mean it as a gay slur or not. Fag has the same characteristics of other words that seem perfectly fine if one set of people use it (I know several openly gay men and women that use it regularly) and out of bounds if someone else uses it. It's so subjective that the only real solution is to say your piece and tune out if you dont like it. I dont mind people objecting to the use of the word, or voicing their opinion but I truly despise the orwellian threats implied here. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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Jiddra
Sweden2685 Posts
On November 05 2010 00:08 Dental Floss wrote: If the community wants to be taken seriously and have starcraft be more than just a game then this is the exact thing that we need to work on. This kind of directed and bigoted language is only going to do harm to SC and make the community look like a collection of ignorant 13 year olds. +1 The Sc community is much better then other gaming communitys regarding this, the fps scene is a disaster for example. Let us keep up the GM and not look like teens without a brain. | ||
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
On November 05 2010 00:08 Dental Floss wrote: If the community wants to be taken seriously and have starcraft be more than just a game then this is the exact thing that we need to work on. This kind of directed and bigoted language is only going to do harm to SC and make the community look like a collection of ignorant 13 year olds. Or they might just look like a bunch of guys who use very common language that only people who want to take offence take offence to. As (I think) Dough Stanhope so nicely put it; offence isnt something you give, it's something you (often voluntarily) take. When they use the word in the context they do, everyone in their right mind knows it has fuck-all to do with homosexuality, much as when you call someone a dick you dont mean it literally, or when you say yo mamma so fat you're generally not actually talking about their mother, whom you've never seen and met. Perhaps in the eye of extreme political correctness you could say they should try to keep the language down, on the other hand I'd like to think we're intelligent enough not to start crying the first time we hear something that could i some way be taken offence to. | ||
Furycrab
Canada456 Posts
On November 04 2010 23:52 Dash27 wrote: This is the political correctness argument. I can see the point you're making but in the end this seems to come down to individual intent and individual feelings. You may be offended by it, or you may not. The person using the word may mean it as a gay slur or not. Fag has the same characteristics of other words that seem perfectly fine if one set of people use it (I know several openly gay men and women that use it regularly) and out of bounds if someone else uses it. It's so subjective that the only real solution is to say your piece and tune out if you dont like it. I dont mind people objecting to the use of the word, or voicing their opinion but I truly despise the orwellian threats implied here. I think it's valid criticism, if for nothing else that the choice of words is detracting from the conversation taking place and there are a million other deragotory terms that can be used to insult themselves that won't have this political weight. Wouldn't like people talking about or using WoW terms in an SC2 cast, why should it be cool to use a colorful word in a completely different context. =/ | ||
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Dystisis
Norway713 Posts
On November 04 2010 23:22 kojinshugi wrote: I did read it and I thoroughly disagree with the type of thinking that leads to arguments like that. At the end of the day, grow a thicker skin. Wait, shit, now I offended scleroderma sufferers. The point being made in Tropic Thunder is served by the use of that word. The word "retard" started out as descriptive and neutral. It was turned into a shorthand derogatory term for mentally disabled people. You can invent euphemisms like "special" or "differently abled", but they become sarcastic derogatory terms. Can you really tell your friend that they're "special" these days without having to caveat that you don't mean "that kind of special"? The problem isn't the words we use, the problem is the attitude we have towards mentally disabled people. Shuffling around terminology doesn't change that in the slightest. To stop using "retard" as a derogatory term is exactly a part of changing attitude towards mentally disabled people, in fact, it's the first step. Same with "fag". You should be able to understand that. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On November 05 2010 00:19 Promises wrote: Or they might just look like a bunch of guys who use very common language that only people who want to take offence take offence to. As (I think) Dough Stanhope so nicely put it; offence isnt something you give, it's something you (often voluntarily) take. When they use the word in the context they do, everyone in their right mind knows it has fuck-all to do with homosexuality, much as when you call someone a dick you dont mean it literally, or when you say yo mamma so fat you're generally not actually talking about their mother, whom you've never seen and met. Perhaps in the eye of extreme political correctness you could say they should try to keep the language down, on the other hand I'd like to think we're intelligent enough not to start crying the first time we hear something that could i some way be taken offence to. You're crazy. If you're really from NL you probably don't understand the context of this word, and if you aren't then you're inexcusably ignorant. I used to toss around these LGBT smears when I was in HS until one day I did it in front of someone who was brave enough to confront me. Now that I'm 24 I actually understand how hurtful it can be to say these things and even though I still slip up sometimes I'm quick to correct myself. Anyone who thinks these words are acceptable in every-day conversation are going to be in for a rude awakening when they move out into the world. | ||
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maJes
United Kingdom186 Posts
A faggot is actually a collection of sticks of wood tied together, which is then used as fuel for a fire. On topic: love the podcast, hope we have many more to come. | ||
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