Analysis: Which Gas should I get first?

deViation-

Canada85 Posts

August 13 2010 22:53 GMT

Good evening fellow TLers. Today I bring you my findings on the gas collection rates of individual geysers for different starting locations. I invite you to read through this fine research of questionable usefulness and pertinence.

As we know, in StarCraft II, we have 2 gas nodes per expansion contrary to the single we had in BW. The question I asked myself was:

Which Geyser should I get first?
[image loading]

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. Should I get this one or that one? This is hard. So unbelievably hard.

Should I build my first Refinery on this one? Or that one? And most importantly, does it even matter?

A situation where the first gas matters
+ Show Spoiler +

On a map like Scrap Station, you might want to get the first gas on the node which is farther from your opponent, especially if he is Protoss. The reasoning behind this is that if your enemy chose to go extremely fast Void Rays, he won’t be able to initially charge up on your gas if you chose the one further away from him. He will have to go all the way to the second gas, leaving him more vulnerable to marines or queen defense. Not much more vulnerable, but still, more vulnerable.

Another situation where the first gas matters
+ Show Spoiler +

Now, let’s say your opponent is Zerg and you are Terran. You choose to go proxy Barracks for some Reaper cheese. Don’t ask me why, but you did. Which gas should you get first? Most of us will assume that it doesn’t matter since they are all at the same distance from the Command Center. Guess again.

The Ladder maps I checked out were:
Blistering Sands (2 locations)
Desert Oasis (2 locations)
Scrap Station (2 locations)
Steppes of War (2 locations)
Xel’Naga Caverns (2 locations)
Kulas Ravine (4 locations)
Lost Temple (4 locations)
Metalopolis (4 locations)
Delta Quadrant (4 locations)

Things I looked for :
- Worker Clippage at Refinery
- Worker Waiting at Refinery
- Overall Distance between Refinery and Command Center
- Gas collection per minute

Worker Clippage :
+ Show Spoiler +

Click to Enlarge
[image loading]

Workers Clipping eachother at the refinery on a Geyser at the North location of Blistering Sands.

Clippage is the term I use to define when two workers pass each other at a Geyser. If the Geyser is particularly far away from the Command Center, it is possible that the Worker inside the Refinery will exit it prior to the second worker arriving. You will therefore see 1 worker pass the other right at the entrance to the refinery. That is called Clippage (no you can’t change the name, its Clippage, I said so.)

Worker Waiting:
+ Show Spoiler +

Click to Enlarge
[image loading]

A worker waits for his buddy to exit the refinery before he can enter.

Worker Waiting (or WW) is the opposite of Clippage, where the Geyser is so close to the Command Center that the second worker arrives at the refinery while the first one is still inside collecting the barrel of gas. This is not very efficient either, because that means you have a worker not working at that specific time. It is however more efficient than Clippage, because it will yield you more gas per minute.

Overall Distance between Refinery and Command Center:
+ Show Spoiler +

Lol look this guy thinks it matters which gas he gets first. Classic overthinking.

[image loading]

Wait a minute...

Using a screenshot in paint, I was able to check out the different positions (X,Y) of the Refinery and the deposit spot on the Command Center. I found that several Geysers have a longer distance to the CC than others. On my screen, with my resolution, using the distance between two points equation (distance = SQRT((X1-X2)² + (Y1-Y2)²)), I found that the top Geyser on this particular location on Metalopolis is approximately 10 pixels farther than the bottom Geyser.

Using the gas collection rates below, the top Geyser shown here yields 108 gas per minute as the lower one yields 112 gas per minute. Get the bottom one first.

Gas collection per minute:
+ Show Spoiler +

I checked out the gas collection rates for different geysers on all the starting locations for all the current ladder maps:

My results are:
Long wall of text is long.
+ Show Spoiler +

Map: Blistering Sands

NorthEast:
- Top Geyser: 104 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.2 real seconds between return trips
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 real seconds between return trips
SouthWest:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds

Conclusion:
On Blistering Sands, if you spawn on the top location, get the bottom gas first.
On Blistering Sands, if you spawn on the bottom location, get the top gas first.

Map: Desert Oasis

North:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
South:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Desert Oasis, it doesn’t matter which gas you get first. They are all equal.

Map: Scrap Station

East:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
West:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Scrap Station, it doesn’t matter which gas you get first. They are all equal.

Map: Steppes of War

South:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
North:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Steppes of War, it doesn’t matter which gas you get first. They are all equal.

Map: Xel’Naga Caverns

NorthEast:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
SouthWest:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Xel’Naga Caverns, it doesn’t matter which gas you get first. They are all equal.

Map: Kulas Ravine

NorthEast:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 104 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.2 seconds

NorthWest:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds

SouthEast:
- Top Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

SouthWest:
- Top Geyser: 104 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.2 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the NorthEast Location, get the Top Geyser First.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the NorthWest Location, get the Top Geyser First.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the SouthEast Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the SouthWest Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.

Map: Lost Temple

North:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
East:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
South:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
West:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Lost Temple, it doesn’t matter which gas you get first. They are all equal.

Map: Metalopolis

North:
- Top Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

East:
- Left Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Right Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds

South:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds

West:
- Left Geyser: 104 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.2 seconds
- Right Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the North Location, get the Top Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the East Location, get the Right Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the South Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the West Location, get the Right Geyser First.

Map: Delta Quadrant

NorthEast:
- Top Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
NorthWest:
- Top Geyser: 108 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.1 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
SouthEast:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
SouthWest:
- Top Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds
- Bottom Geyser: 112 gas/min
- Time Between: 2.0 seconds

Conclusion:
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the NorthEast Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the NorthWest Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the SouthEast Location, both Geysers are equal.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the SouthWest Location, both Geysers are equal.

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Overall conclusions:
-Three workers is the optimal number to harvest gas from a Geyser. (big suprise)

- If you are scared your opponent will Rush you and you plan on only getting 1 Refinery at your main, get the one furthest away form harm.

- If you are cheesing and your build order only needs 1 gas, get the one with the higher gas collection rate.

- If you don't know which gas to get first, get:
+ Show Spoiler +

On Blistering Sands, if you spawn on the top location, get the bottom gas first.
On Blistering Sands, if you spawn on the bottom location, get the top gas first.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the NorthEast Location, get the Top Geyser First.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the NorthWest Location, get the Top Geyser First.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the SouthEast Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Kulas Ravine, if you spawn at the SouthWest Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the North Location, get the Top Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the East Location, get the Right Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the South Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Metalopolis, if you spawn at the West Location, get the Right Geyser First.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the NorthEast Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the NorthWest Location, get the Bottom Geyser First.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the SouthEast Location, both Geysers are equal.
On Delta Quadrant, if you spawn at the West Location, both Geysers are equal.
On Steppes of War, Desert Oasis, Scrap Station, Xel'Naga Caverns and Lost Temple, it doesn't matter which gas you get first.

- If you don't care, just get the Geyser you want and it won't really matter in the long run.

- Longer overall distances between Refinery and CC cause Worker Clippage.
- Shorter overall distances between Refinery and CC cause Worker Waiting

Now alot of people won't even bother to care about which gas to get first.
But for me, the question is: Do you want 108 gas per minute or 112 gas per minute?

I'll take the 112.
+ Show Spoiler +

112 gas per minute instead of 108 means you will be getting 4 more gas per minute for maybe 2-3 minutes depending on your build. Do you want 12 more gas or not?

Thank you for reading <3

edit: typos typos typos

HTS

United States63 Posts

August 13 2010 22:59 GMT

mainly ppl get gas in the one further from their ramp because it'll take longer to scout it, but yeah on some maps it does appear one gas is closer than another so 112 gas > 108 gas

PKCarwash

United States37 Posts

August 13 2010 23:03 GMT

This is...surprisingly useful, and well written

Thanks for the info =D

TheFinalWord

Australia790 Posts

August 13 2010 23:05 GMT

I wondered why tlo gets the bottom gas in that metolopis screenshot, I guess this explains it.

deViation-

Canada85 Posts

August 13 2010 23:11 GMT

On August 14 2010 08:05 TheFinalWord wrote:
I wondered why tlo gets the bottom gas in that metolopis screenshot, I guess this explains it.

Ive seen pro gamers get the 108 gas first too though. Just goes to show how TLO is pro.

deViation-

Canada85 Posts

August 14 2010 11:59 GMT

Bumpin my thread

some_noob

160 Posts

August 14 2010 12:16 GMT

You didn't mention that taking the furthest gas from the mineral line will result in more travel time (therefore less mining time) for the workers (the one building it, and the three joining it )

!

Herculix

United States946 Posts

August 14 2010 12:21 GMT

i never put much thought into it like this but i always just got the further geyser from my base's entrance and considered the minimal extra gas you'd get from a closer geyser not worth evaluating.

now that i actually have some info about it though, it appears just as meaningless as i expected: the difference between the close and further geysers basically mean that over the course of 1 minute, you have a harvesting inefficiency of 1 harvest's worth if you use the far geyser. in terms of build orders, this makes about a 2-3 second difference in what you can do. you have to have some pretty gosu build order to take advantage of a close geyser, and in the end it's a significantly greater advantage to have your gas not scouted once in a while imo.

nttea

Sweden4353 Posts

August 14 2010 12:25 GMT

Jesus christ! so much work for so little gas! but it had to be done i guess, see if you can add this to liquipedia if it's not already there.

Ksyper

Bulgaria665 Posts

August 14 2010 12:25 GMT

#10

Does it really matter?
I don't think it's going to make a difference.

jnay

Canada107 Posts

August 14 2010 12:26 GMT

#11

i think you made a typo on lost temple : west, top geiser. i think it's supposed to be 112 gas/min since its all equal

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

August 14 2010 12:35 GMT

#12

I really doubt any players lose a game due to a 5-10 gas intake per minute. While interesting stuff, i think our time could be better spent practicing builds, macro, micro, multitasking..etc.

deViation-

Canada85 Posts

August 14 2010 12:37 GMT

#13

On August 14 2010 21:26 jnay wrote:
i think you made a typo on lost temple : west, top geiser. i think it's supposed to be 112 gas/min since its all equal

Thanks, corrected that.

As for everyone else's comments, you are right.

Time is better spent analysis builds, micro, macro.
Overall the gas collection rate difference is minimal at best.

But as one guy said: "so much work for so little gas, but I guess it had to be done".

IT HAD TO BE DONE! (was driving me nuts)

dinmsab

Malaysia2246 Posts

August 14 2010 12:40 GMT

#14

On August 14 2010 21:35 zomgtossrush wrote:
I really doubt any players lose a game due to a 5-10 gas intake per minute. While interesting stuff, i think our time could be better spent practicing builds, macro, micro, multitasking..etc.

Come to think of it, by just one simple decision in game and you could get 10 more gas a min...that's 100 gas in 10 mins! and its not like you need to add 100apm to pull it off. I know its not really gamebreaking, but its good to know your mining slightly more than your opponent.

ZomgTossRush

United States1041 Posts

August 14 2010 12:44 GMT

#15

On August 14 2010 21:40 dinmsab wrote:

Show nested quote +

yeah thats 100 more gas over 10 minutes. out of how much gas? 5 k gas and your stressing about an extra 100 gas?

Kratisto

United States199 Posts

August 14 2010 12:46 GMT

#16

So THIS is why I've been losing games!

deViation-

Canada85 Posts

August 14 2010 12:46 GMT

#17

On August 14 2010 21:44 zomgtossrush wrote:

Show nested quote +

yeah thats 100 more gas over 10 minutes. out of how much gas? 5 k gas and your stressing about an extra 100 gas?

Keep in mind guys, this is considering if you only stay on 1 gas at your main for 10 minutes. Highly doubtful.

But you might stay at 1 gas at your main for 2-3 minutes if you put out early pressure. One could also fast expand and make sure not to get the less efficient geyser at the main and only get the good one at the main and the 2 at the natural.

Herculix

United States946 Posts

August 14 2010 12:51 GMT

#18

i want to post again just to say that even though i think it's meaningless, it's still a good thing for people to research and identify things like this. you should always check up on some kind of obscure abnormality you notice in the game, because for every 20 times you say "well that was actually pretty useless," you'll find 1 thing where it changes the way you think. you'll also have those 20 tests in the back of your head verifying things that other people just don't know either way.

Sfydjklm

United States9218 Posts

August 14 2010 12:58 GMT

#19

thank you, that was rather obvious that they were not equal but takes a real man to put it into numbers!