This can be done by any race with splash units, and people who are saying its not worth it. It is worth it if you are a high apm player and can do it with out messing up your macro. Pros in BW have target fired thier buildings with tanks to kill Dts, I can see a pro doing this.

As for panning in and out, if your gosu you just see cloaked units

angelicfolly

United States292 Posts

August 11 2010 23:58 GMT

#23

On August 12 2010 08:51 jamesr12 wrote:
This can be done by any race with splash units, and people who are saying its not worth it. It is worth it if you are a high apm player and can do it with out messing up your macro. Pros in BW have target fired thier buildings with tanks to kill Dts, I can see a pro doing this.

As for panning in and out, if your gosu you just see cloaked units

Dark lots still need to get in melee range, you have time before they even start to do anything. This is the main problem with comparing this with dark lots; Once they get the information they where sent there for, they already have been paid for. Dark lots need to damage (not kill, but that would be nice), to get the other player to do what you want.

This is a reactive move to an observer already being there. Once they already have seen what you want, it's cool that they stick around for a little longer but if they don't so what? Point is, you need to have defense before they get to the location not after.

Loser777

1931 Posts

August 12 2010 00:02 GMT

#24

This could be important, but even in SC1, when pros have ebays up and turrets to prevent reaver drops, they don't put any turrets by their factories to hide their factory counts from observers... which I always thought was important to the Protoss to judge if the Terran is going for a timing push or a greedy expand build...

Papillon

Germany131 Posts

August 12 2010 00:13 GMT

#25

what about the arguing this is not worth it?
of course its worth it, as long as you are able to do this on the fly without loosing focus on other stuff

DemiSe

883 Posts

August 12 2010 00:14 GMT

#26

That's a neat trick. Just like someone said:

Pros in BW have target fired thier buildings with tanks to kill Dts, I can see a pro doing this.

this is the same, just with a different unit.

What settings determines the affect of cloaked and burrowed units?

angelicfolly

United States292 Posts

August 12 2010 00:24 GMT

#27

On August 12 2010 09:14 DemiSe wrote:
That's a neat trick. Just like someone said:

Show nested quote +

this is the same, just with a different unit.

What settings determines the affect of cloaked and burrowed units?

Just because it is a unit does not mean it accomplishes the same task as every other cloaked unit. This the key thing which makes this not worth it. Point is, I repeat the damage would already have been done and, you at that point should of already had a detector unit out. I mean you got to at least know that Protoss are going to get observers out. You would be gimping yourself if you rely on this trick.

On settings I really do not know. You can see cloaked units on the very lowest settings, but it's more easier to see them on medium and above settings. I don't know what exact settings work, and personally I can easily see the stupid suckers whenever they get around my field of vision. I guess it's more of a trained flicker you catch.

moopie

12605 Posts

August 12 2010 00:27 GMT

#28

There's a reason why it was only really used on lurkers, and only in emergencies in BW.
An enemy won't leave his banshee stationary for 6-10 seconds while you line up your thor and viking. If you don't have detectors and banshees are in your base or around your ground army, you're hosed.

arb

Noobville17921 Posts

August 12 2010 00:27 GMT

#29

On August 12 2010 07:51 -ReMeDy- wrote:

Show nested quote +

And what are those settings?

everything on highest so shit is easier to see

i used to do this vs DT's in sc1(using tanks obv) but i havent tried in sc2

InToTheWannaB

United States4770 Posts

August 12 2010 00:33 GMT

#30

ha it may not be very practical or useful 99% of the time, but u just know someone going to win a game like this sooner or later lol.

moopie

12605 Posts

August 12 2010 00:33 GMT

#31

Unless if those same pros are smurfing in bronze/silver, their opponents would likely be similar level pros, who A) probably won't go for your buildings with DTs when there are tanks and workers present, and B) if he does go for buildings, he won't let himself get splashed to death while hammering on a supply depot or whatever.

Waxangel

United States33360 Posts

August 12 2010 01:08 GMT

#32

How are people who have watched Brood War for years even capable of saying "it's not worth the effort, impractical" when Brood War has been CONSTANTLY proving that kind of thinking wrong? If it's something you can do in theory, someone will make it useful in a real game at some point. It may not happen consistently, but it will happen, in any video game

Spaceninja

United States211 Posts

August 12 2010 01:12 GMT

#33

what if the observer is on patrol?

Ownos

United States2147 Posts

August 12 2010 01:16 GMT

#34

It has practical applications. When your helion harass is met with drones burrowing under ground. Snicker and shoot at the hatchery and watch the drones bake anyway.

caution.slip

United States775 Posts

August 12 2010 01:17 GMT

#35

On August 12 2010 10:12 Spaceninja wrote:
what if the observer is on patrol?

then it should be easier to predict where the observer is going to be than if he were controlling the observer manually

BeMannerDuPenner

Germany5638 Posts

August 12 2010 01:20 GMT

#36

mmhh? dont see the point. you can see cloaked units fine all the time... is it just me?

and ya it saved my ass more then once. when you kill dts by splashing em with your PF on your scvs you know you learned something from those countless hours of bw matches watchd.

Sanguinarius

United States3427 Posts

August 12 2010 01:20 GMT

#37

You can see the cloaked unit move - just like in sc1. Its probably harder on higher settings because there is more that just moves overall.

BeMannerDuPenner

Germany5638 Posts

August 12 2010 01:21 GMT

#38

On August 12 2010 10:20 Sanguinarius wrote:
You can see the cloaked unit move - just like in sc1. Its probably harder on higher settings because there is more that just moves overall.

as said, can see evrything cloaked moving super fine and if you know there is a ob or whatever you mcan find it too. evrything on ultra settings that is.

DrakanSilva

Chile932 Posts

August 12 2010 01:26 GMT

#39

Mmmm... is it effective to go viking/thors against protoss ??? i rather go marine, marauder, ghost, stim/slow early push and then see what is he going to do... and kill the observer with the emp. even if it cost me a lot of energy, it cost more to the protoss once you have enough ghosts.

Ironclown

United States73 Posts

August 12 2010 06:07 GMT

#40

Lots of replies. Nice.

Someone mentioned "once it is there, the damage is done." True, to an extent. Toss will often times position their Observer so they can see when you are moving out. They won't know if it is dead.

I really can't believe people are saying its not worth it. Not doing something like this when scan is down or you don't have a turret currently there, is just giving scouting information away for free "Hey I COULD kill your obs, but nah!"

Viking/Thor was mentioned as not really being a viable unit comp in TvP which could be true at the moment, but it also work with Ravens Medivacs and Banshees. Banshees are a bad target though because they are considered light units, which Thors pwn. Medivacs with your mm ball are quite common against Protoss.

I expect something like this to happen 1 out of every 1000 games, but its little tricks like this that made BW so fun to watch, and the more of these we find, the better!