On July 26 2010 14:33 billyX333 wrote: Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
This guy essentially says what I am trying to, but much more succinctly.
note - im definitely not of the same religion nor do I believe everything he says dogmatically
There is definitely value in what you say and what monks believe. I'm not saying that you should derive all of your self worth from what society deems important. Lots of what monks believe has truth to it but there is one flaw in how they think, and that is the lack of ambition associated with it.
When you are content with having nothing, and do not desire anything more than you do not progress as a person or as a society. Discomfort and lack of satisfaction are actually driving forces towards progression. Therefore, being completely happy and satisfied can actually be detrimental.
A good example of this is how people become fat, unhealthy, and over weight once they are in a long term loving relationship. This is because they are happy and feel no need to work hard and stay healthy. Then when they divorce, they suddenly realize what has happened to them and find themselves back in the gym. Sometimes pain, discontent, and misery are driving forces towards positive goals.
Now I'm not saying that you should look towards what society deems being successful as your own personal model for success. But you have to realize something: There is a reason that society deems certain things successfull and certain things unsuccessful, its because history has shown certain things to create a better life for people and other things to create a worse life.
Success is different for everyone but some things are true for every human being
Pro creation: If you do not reproduce then you are biologically unsuccessful. Your genes do not continue and you are a dead end. Some people don't care, but biologically speaking you are unsuccessful. This is one reason that society views family, having a boyfriend/girlfriend or marriage, etc as a form of success.
Self sustaining: Can you survive on your own? In old times this meant being able to hunt and gather, or being useful to society in some way. In modern times it means being useful to society in some way which generates an income for yourself. If you have no income then you cannot sustain a decent life for yourself or your family. Therefore money and success are related
These are just two examples, but you can see how basic human and biologic nature greatly effects what society sees as successful.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
On July 26 2010 14:33 billyX333 wrote: Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Thank god I spent years playing video games. =)
What kind of business are you in, thats quite impressive in this economy
Personally (referring to the OP). I don't think 12 credit hours is that terrible. I had a 16 credit hour schedule last semester and I still found time to play 2 hours a day. But then again I'm not trying to go pro or anything.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Probably mentioned already, but I would point out that with the exception of players like Idra or other ex-SC1 pros (who have seen a game like BW at in it's most developed state), I doubt many are going to be able to judge what it takes to be a "top player". Because being a top player now is meaningless--many players just haven't played enough (or at all) to allow their practice to come to fruition. As more players get into the game, the skill level is going to just going to skyrocket, and the amount of practice needed to reach it is similarly going to climb.
This is not to demean a player like HuK. He's an excellent player right now, but asking him what it would take to be a top SC2 player post-release would be like asking Yellow or Chojja in 2000 what it takes to be a player like Jaedong or Effort today. You just can't predict how far the competition is going to go.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Thank god I spent years playing video games. =)
I applaud you for getting laid at the age of 6.
Because clearly his son is of college age at RIGHT THIS MINUTE.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Thank god I spent years playing video games. =)
What kind of business are you in, thats quite impressive in this economy
On July 26 2010 14:00 fyyer wrote: The problem with society is everyone is too busy trying to climb the ladder that it's created a giant profit ring for colleges. Everyone and their mentally ill brother is going to college that it's destroying the prestige of having certain degrees. Then you got the whole "pay later" loan thing that doesn't come into effect until you're out of college, where it's inevitable alot of people will end up dropping out early for financial reasons regardless, now they're stuck paying off the loan with nothin to show for it. Or perhaps they made it through, now they got a degree in Chiropractic, which is "alternative medicine" (short for fake, usually), and they're stuck off paying off the loans for 10 years on a shoddy practice. Must be hard being a logical thinker and going through life knowing what you're ultimately doing is total b.s.
Not sure what this rant has to do with anything. College graduates, on average, still make a load more than those with only a high school education. Going to college and making more money -> more money to do things you enjoy (this may be Starcraft) -> better than playing SC2 12 hours a day.
That doesn't necessarily mean it was their college education that was responsible for their success. A lot of people who are successful after college do a lot of things outside of it. There have been people who we're doing side projects in college, found it turned out to be profitable and dropped out. A lot of disciplines teach theory/fundamentals and little practical skills (they expect you to learn that on your own). For each that is successful in their field there are 1000 others who are teaching math with an English degree.
As if everybody actually thought they were going to make money by playing SC2. Why not just play as much as possible while it's fun? As long as I don't realistically expect to become top20 world player, I'll just enjoy playing without adding extra stress by thinking I HAVE to get better or else... I'll probably play 10h+/d first month, then maybe lower a bit. This isn't in order to get a damned sponsor deal, just because playing sc2 is most fun I can think of (for something you can do constantly).
billyX333 and AttackZerg... you guys are awesome LOL i have played thousands and thousands of games of BroodWar in my life, and if i could go back and do it all over again, I'm 99% sure I would do it again, because its just the best game ever, and I really hope SC2 gets to that level too
On July 26 2010 15:33 Ouga wrote: As if everybody actually thought they were going to make money by playing SC2. Why not just play as much as possible while it's fun? As long as I don't realistically expect to become top20 world player, I'll just enjoy playing without adding extra stress by thinking I HAVE to get better or else... I'll probably play 10h+/d first month, then maybe lower a bit. This isn't in order to get a damned sponsor deal, just because playing sc2 is most fun I can think of (for something you can do constantly).
Just because you play 8 hours a day doesnt make you good at the game. No one can answer how many hours u have to play to be a pro sc2 player. I'd personally say get a life/job/girlfriend before u worry about playing 10 hours every day.
From a neuroscience perspective, you need only practice enough to get a certain specific skill down. Once you are fatigued to the point where your performance at that skill is worse, you stop. Then you sleep and let your brain consolidate that skill. This is the most effective time to muscle memory conversion.
The wisdom to know what to do and what to practice can only be achieved through experience. The only way to speed that along is to look at how other practiced people respond to expected and unexpected situations. But, to pick up on the subtlety of play also requires experience. So you really can't find a shortcut if you want to blow people's minds with your insanity and creativity, but for 99% of the population, lifestyle-altering practice is not necessary.
If I play over 8-10 hours my winning rate drops. After this I don't think that you will "learn" very much from playing, since your mind is quite the exhausted.
To optimize the learning Id say you find your own limit. Play until you reach it and then take a brake. Go on a walk, gym.. or anything other than gaming. Perhaps just cook a nice meal : D Then take some time and review those played games, what went wrong? Why did it went wrong? What could I do to prevent this with the given information? Where do I need to practice more?
I haven't read everything in this thread (sorry, too many pages); please forgive me for any redundancy.
I've had a question in my mind for months, under various shapes, reading these forums (especially seeing thousands of posts about "omgomg it's already early July, when is phase 2 gonna start?!!" and all the drama around it).
So in this thread, everyone is talking about playing 5, 6, 8, or 10h a day... That's great, especially if playing sc is your job. But I'm guessing not many of TL's members are pros, right ? So my question is, how do you manage to play so many hours daily, if it's not your job?
Note that this is NOT about saying "playing sc is lame, you should get a life", but more about "what is the typical TL user doing in life so that he can play 8h/day?".
On July 26 2010 14:33 billyX333 wrote: Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
This guy essentially says what I am trying to, but much more succinctly.
note - im definitely not of the same religion nor do I believe everything he says dogmatically
So youre saying becoming independent, adding value to society, supporting a family, passing your own wisdom to the next generation, all of those achievements are 'superficial accolades' and 'based in the material world'? How can you label these very real goals and achievements 'superficial', while leaving the idea of spending hours upon hours in a virtual world unjudged? also, unless im mistaken, Sabresandiego never mentioned a single goal that was based in material value or the respect of others. He just mentioned how you would be wasting your life if you spent too much time playing games.
I know youre not specifically defending excessive gaming here. Your whole point is that people can be much happier with much less. I agree with that. However, the tone of your post seems to suggest that you think that these people are somehow "better" than those who base their lives on achievements and such. I completely disagree with that. How does being content with a mediocre life somehow make you a better person? Abraham Lincoln fought with clinical depression for most of his life. He was probably far less happy than any of us discussing this right now (plus he was shot and killed for acting on what he believed in, how much does that suck?), but he waged a campaign that reunited our nation and abolished slavery. He added HUGE value to society BECAUSE he was not content with the way things were.
If my level of satisfaction in life is based on achievement, improving myself, and adding value to society, who the hell are you to call me a 'broken man' and my goals and dreams 'superficial'? I might not be completely satisfied with my life at all times, but that is the point. If I become satisfied, that will lead to complacency. How can I hope to be all that i can be and do all that i can to my greatest potential if I become completely satisfied with what I am in the present? I have high self-esteem. I have high confidence in myself that I will make something of myself in life. However, I am unsatisfied with my life as it is because I want to get better. This is how we as humans have progressed to where we are. We have improved our quality of life because we DIDNT become satisfied with the present, and you can be sure as hell that we wont progress further by becoming "happier with less" and playing games for 10+ hours a day.
oh and PS. bringing up monks is a bad analogy. you are trying to rationalize laziness, because while monks and gamers are both happier with less, monks are still putting themselves through stress. Monks actively deprive themselves of worldly pleasures in their pursuit of enlightenment. People devoting their lives to gaming, on the other hand, are immersing themselves in their worldly pleasures.
Most efficient in terms of what? SC2 doesn't contribute towards your life and is time consuming, so if you want to maximize the efficiency in terms of your life, 0 hours is best. In terms of SC2, play until you begin to get fatigued. You can't improve if you can't focus, so the only time barrier is your level of mental strength imo.
On July 26 2010 20:54 lariat wrote: Most efficient in terms of what? SC2 doesn't contribute towards your life and is time consuming, so if you want to maximize the efficiency in terms of your life, 0 hours is best
Quoted for truth - most efficient is 0 hours.
My problem with the OP is that he wants to be the top 20 US player. Being top 20 won't net you any money (maybe less than $1000). Why don't you want to play 3-4 hours a day and be top 3000? Much more fun imo...
EPT
