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On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented. imo
Hard work can only take you so far. Mass gaming can give you experience with different types of situations, and give you good mechanics... but at the end of the day, there are certain things that don't get better with practice. These are the things that define players. You don't learn style.
It just reminds me back to warcraft 3. There used to be some guy with a profile that had like 5000 wins, and people were shocked that this guy still sucked so bad. They thought, surely after playing 5000 games you'd be good at the game, right? Nope. If you don't have the talent, no amount of practicing is going to make you a pro.
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One thing I do want to say that I am not sure if HuK had in mind but :
A 4 Warp Gate is the ideal amount because it is 100% efficient.
The flaw here is that it ASSUMES the player is also 100% efficient at making units.
Meaning right when the cool down goes off the player makes units.
That does not happen in real life. In a pratical game people have to micro, forcefields, split units, etc etc. During this time the player cannot make units and thus minerals gets stored.
When the player does go back and macro, he would have excess minerals. This is where the 5th and 6th warpgate may come into play. To compensate for the lack of 100% efficient macro.
I know guys will be like, HAHA NOOB U CAN'T MACRO WHILE YOU MICRO.
Guess what, none of us can. There are times where you just need those careful micro and not everyone is Flash or Jaedong with 500apm.
Just my 2 cents. AGAIN THIS IS MY PROPOSAL AS TO WHY THIS MAY BE USEFUL not necessarily what HuK had in his mind please understand that !
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented.
the point is, the definition of hardwork is relative to the norm of how hard people are trying
and, well, everyone will be trying hard
talent will decide everything
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On July 21 2010 13:43 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented. imo Hard work can only take you so far. Mass gaming can give you experience with different types of situations, and give you good mechanics... but at the end of the day, there are certain things that don't get better with practice. These are the things that define players. You don't learn style. It just reminds me back to warcraft 3. There used to be some guy with a profile that had like 5000 wins, and people were shocked that this guy still sucked so bad. They thought, surely after playing 5000 games you'd be good at the game, right? Nope. If you don't have the talent, no amount of practicing is going to make you a pro.
Yeah but all that wc3 analogy concerning the 5000 games shows is that if your absolutely terrible no amount of work will make you good, but what if you take someone who is just decent and they work really hard?
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Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
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On July 21 2010 13:43 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented. imo Hard work can only take you so far. Mass gaming can give you experience with different types of situations, and give you good mechanics... but at the end of the day, there are certain things that don't get better with practice. These are the things that define players. You don't learn style. It just reminds me back to warcraft 3. There used to be some guy with a profile that had like 5000 wins, and people were shocked that this guy still sucked so bad. They thought, surely after playing 5000 games you'd be good at the game, right? Nope. If you don't have the talent, no amount of practicing is going to make you a pro.
I dont agree with this statement at all.
There is a difference between playing to improve and playing. I dont think your example was good. I played alot and was considered quite the talentless prick back in the when i first started. Over the years (was young, 12-16) i had played alot of wc3. barely improving i wasnt talented at all if there ever was so a definition of the word talent.. i played so much but could not improve.
Then i got older... at which point my mind started to become much clearer and i could think on a much more conscious level and i began to question everything. This opened up alot for me. I began to play and improve leaps and bounds over the course of months all sums up to the point where i am now... Where i am able now to take games from the top players, You may or may not know me but i am the player Pride in wc3.
I came to the point where the inevitable skill ceiling was shown as it is apparent in all rts. I've been playing RTS for over 9 years. I even dabbed into BW using my new found knowledge i had gained too test my limits. I had just heard the announcement of sc2 and i was excited to make my mark. So i said, you know i wonder... how far can i go on iccup?
it took me 3 weeks to make it to c+... I had stopped after burning my self out ( I played casual BGH when i was around 10) so i knew the units. (Chose terran)
inevitably beta in sc2, i had very little passion to play for some odd reason and what i hate my self over now.... I could only sometimes if i was lucky to play 7 games a day... i was doing on average 1-2 games for fun.. Somehow i still managed to beat every top player on the America server. Excluding idra because well i never faced him.
Now im going to tell you.. It would be crazy to think something like talent doesnt exist...
but if anyone can come from what i have.. some would have said just a retard mass gamer who would never mount to any high skill....
I don't know what to believe.....
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Huk will need to work significantly harder than he is now, but I support him.
The wc3 game is hilarious.
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On July 21 2010 13:47 virgozero wrote:
One thing I do want to say that I am not sure if HuK had in mind but :
A 4 Warp Gate is the ideal amount because it is 100% efficient.
The flaw here is that it ASSUMES the player is also 100% efficient at making units.
Meaning right when the cool down goes off the player makes units.
That does not happen in real life. In a pratical game people have to micro, forcefields, split units, etc etc. During this time the player cannot make units and thus minerals gets stored.
When the player does go back and macro, he would have excess minerals. This is where the 5th and 6th warpgate may come into play. To compensate for the lack of 100% efficient macro.
I know guys will be like, HAHA NOOB U CAN'T MACRO WHILE YOU MICRO.
Guess what, none of us can. There are times where you just need those careful micro and not everyone is Flash or Jaedong with 500apm.
Just my 2 cents. AGAIN THIS IS MY PROPOSAL AS TO WHY THIS MAY BE USEFUL not necessarily what HuK had in his mind please understand that !
Nah, 4 gates is good to continuously pump units along with probes, huk was cutting probes. His play was pretty all-inish.
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On July 21 2010 12:09 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 12:07 Butigroove wrote:On July 21 2010 12:05 Telcontar wrote:
HuK get the range upgrade for crying out loud. Maybe hes Kim Taek Yong instead? You mean Song Byung Goo
Doh.. I thought it was Bisu who forgot range in that final for some reason 
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On July 21 2010 13:51 Newguy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 13:43 shinosai wrote:On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented. imo Hard work can only take you so far. Mass gaming can give you experience with different types of situations, and give you good mechanics... but at the end of the day, there are certain things that don't get better with practice. These are the things that define players. You don't learn style. It just reminds me back to warcraft 3. There used to be some guy with a profile that had like 5000 wins, and people were shocked that this guy still sucked so bad. They thought, surely after playing 5000 games you'd be good at the game, right? Nope. If you don't have the talent, no amount of practicing is going to make you a pro. Yeah but all that wc3 analogy concerning the 5000 games shows is that if your absolutely terrible no amount of work will make you good, but what if you take someone who is just decent and they work really hard?
There's hard work and there's hard work. Playing 5,000 games doesn't always equate to practicing hard. It's like playing a musical instrument, if you just sit there playing Smoke on the Water a thousand times on the guitar you might be having fun but you're not going to be a great musician from doing it.
Obviously you do need a certain amount of natural ability to get anywhere but I think it's pretty obvious from watching Huk play that he does have that ability.
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Lim Yo Hwan would upgrade thermal lance
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On July 21 2010 13:43 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented. imo Hard work can only take you so far. Mass gaming can give you experience with different types of situations, and give you good mechanics... but at the end of the day, there are certain things that don't get better with practice. These are the things that define players. You don't learn style. It just reminds me back to warcraft 3. There used to be some guy with a profile that had like 5000 wins, and people were shocked that this guy still sucked so bad. They thought, surely after playing 5000 games you'd be good at the game, right? Nope. If you don't have the talent, no amount of practicing is going to make you a pro.
You're confusing practice with something some people play for FUN.
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On July 20 2010 05:38 Mykill wrote:
Huk is like Grrrr
doubt doubt it..
+ the situation with SC/BW in the beginning -/- SC 2 now
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On July 21 2010 13:50 Rekrul wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2010 13:26 konicki wrote:On July 21 2010 12:57 Rekrul wrote:On July 21 2010 11:46 Artosis wrote:
hard work > talent
haters gonna hate. actually no, and sc2 will show you that very quickly but you can keep hating if you'd like I dont know which part you are disagreeing with, however, hard work is indeed "greater than" talent especially at high levels where all players are highly talented. the point is, the definition of hardwork is relative to the norm of how hard people are trying and, well, everyone will be trying hard talent will decide everything
Perhaps the capacity to try harder than someone else is also a talent, few pros would say they aren't trying their hardest I assume. Talent is going to be everything I agree.
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I'm sure Huk is a great player, but imo he didn't play too well vs. Idra yesterday. We'll see though. I predict he's going down pretty bad vs. Tester, but maybe he'll prove me wrong...
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On July 21 2010 22:30 MaGic~PhiL wrote:doubt doubt it.. + the situation with SC/BW in the beginning -/- SC 2 now
i agree, Grrr is like a savant kid, and HuK is still an unexperienced protoss player. he could and will become a top protoss player if he keeps on going, even nony forgot to research storm vs draco.
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Wow, the guy gets a news article in an e-sport that I follow. Ive pretty much never seen a "gamer interview "in the newspapers before (I have, but not that many) and they pick a guy Ive never even heard of lol..
Well good luck kid. But dont start aiming for the fame of Yo Hwan before youve atleast played on a professional level for a year! 
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One of the first times I tuned in to watch HuK was in some vT tournament where he made a complete ass of himself, barring the main streamer from the games due to him alt-tabbing once for 15 seconds to fix an issue with the stream. I can only see myself cheering for HuK if the opponent is Naniwa...
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On July 21 2010 23:00 Robinsa wrote:Wow, the guy gets a news article in an e-sport that I follow. Ive pretty much never seen a "gamer interview "in the newspapers before (I have, but not that many) and they pick a guy Ive never even heard of lol.. Well good luck kid. But dont start aiming for the fame of Yo Hwan before youve atleast played on a professional level for a year!
Hint: that's not an actual newspaper article
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2568/flashpeptalk2.jpg)
