EPTInstead, as other people have said, having the tank's projectile take time to travel would be the right approach. The speed of the projectile is a matter of balance; it correlates to how well tanks distribute their firepower.
[Idea] Siege Tank Overkill - Page 2
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
Instead, as other people have said, having the tank's projectile take time to travel would be the right approach. The speed of the projectile is a matter of balance; it correlates to how well tanks distribute their firepower. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Amprophet
93 Posts
Plus - I see a lot of replays where players successfully break down the Terran opponent even through a fortress of tanks. Terran are characteristically less mobile. I feel that's good and brings variety to the game, but they should be rewarded with a stronger defense to balance it out. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 10 2010 06:55 Amprophet wrote: When playing Zerg I have a lot of difficulty with tank lines, but I don't think that's something that needs to be fixed. I hate to see tanks no longer overkill just because we find it hard to deal with. It's a lot more frustrating to see your tanks overkill than it is to see your units die because your opponent's tanks don't overkill. Plus - I see a lot of replays where players successfully break down the Terran opponent even through a fortress of tanks. Terran are characteristically less mobile. I feel that's good and brings variety to the game, but they should be rewarded with a stronger defense to balance it out. I think overkill adds a lot more depth to the tank though... overkill completely kills or dramatically reduces the effectiveness of getting your units within close proximity of tanks, completely ruins zealot bombs, drops, etc. and quite frankly doesn't make much sense. Tanks have one of the longest ranges, but roaches can still overkill easily. I see almost no reason for tanks not to have overkill, as in a realistic sense I would think the siege tank would overkill before ANY other unit in the game, but maybe I'm just reminiscing about SC1. Also overkill increases the advantage of spamming pure tanks, taking out strategic depth imo. | ||
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psion
106 Posts
On July 10 2010 06:39 101TFP wrote: The reason that tanks are the only unit not overkilling is that their shots hit instantly. Their shots hit the target at exactly the same point in time they shoot. The other tanks then "recognize" that the target is dead before shooting at it themselves. They are not in any way smarter than the other units, their projectiles are just instantly hitting the target. You have proof of this, yes? | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
I'm not sure how to interpret the impact this level of complexity would add. I fear (only my initial reaction) this would add much complexity to people's thoughts, where it actually has little affect. Secondly, as Blizzard also mentioned, I think tanks are only OP in TvT (although probably not after the nerf, although I haven't been able to play enough since then). Both toss and zerg have extremely powerful anti tank strategies. (Just off the top of my head toss have various uses of VR, and immortals and zerg have ultralisk map control (exploiting immobility) with super-expanding, as well as bling and ultra doom drops). So any adjustments should be made with consideration of TvT, rather than the other races, where tanks do not overwhelm every other strategy. (Remember this is not about balance, but gameplay) | ||
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DanielD
United States192 Posts
On July 10 2010 07:09 FabledIntegral wrote: I think overkill adds a lot more depth to the tank though... overkill completely kills or dramatically reduces the effectiveness of getting your units within close proximity of tanks, completely ruins zealot bombs, drops, etc. and quite frankly doesn't make much sense. Tanks have one of the longest ranges, but roaches can still overkill easily. I see almost no reason for tanks not to have overkill, as in a realistic sense I would think the siege tank would overkill before ANY other unit in the game, but maybe I'm just reminiscing about SC1. Also overkill increases the advantage of spamming pure tanks, taking out strategic depth imo. Balance. If you watch any high level games, "spamming pure tanks" not only doesn't happen, but lots of tanks doesn't mean insta-win. Plus, like it's been said a million times, YOU DON'T LET TERRAN GET A 200/200 MECH ARMY. How many fucking times do we have to have this thread? | ||
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Sethronu
United Kingdom450 Posts
There's nothing wrong with Siege Tanks as they are; and SC2 isn't BW, saying they had overkill in BW so it should be the way in SC2 too makes absolutely no sense. | ||
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101TFP
420 Posts
Well, it's right there. Look at a Tank shooting something. There is no delay between the shot and the impact. If you have 3 Tanks sieged up and run a hostile Zergling towards them, they will all turn their turret towards the Zergling, but only the Tank which has its turret pointed at the Zergling first will shoot. There is probably evidence of this to be found in the editor, but since you have to log in now to use the editor, i cannot look for it, because the beta is still down here in europe. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 10 2010 07:28 DanielD wrote: Balance. If you watch any high level games, "spamming pure tanks" not only doesn't happen, but lots of tanks doesn't mean insta-win. Plus, like it's been said a million times, YOU DON'T LET TERRAN GET A 200/200 MECH ARMY. How many fucking times do we have to have this thread? I said it increases the advantage of doing so, rather than mixing in more units. It is considered imbalanced by many at the moment, and was most likely the reason for the -10 dmg nerf, whether or not it accomplished anything. Furthermore, spamming a plentiful amount of tanks does happen. And to continue, it is very hard to prevent a Terran from getting a 200/200 army. It is also a terrible way to look at the game. Your posting quality is absolutely horrendous by the way. | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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Zack1900
United States211 Posts
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k!llua
Australia895 Posts
And honestly, is the best we can do as a community just rehashing old ideas? Surely there's a crazy solution that no-one's seen before that will work. | ||
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SiNiquity
United States734 Posts
On July 11 2010 03:21 Zack1900 wrote: I don't like the odd conditions to this idea. Weird unintuitive rules won't help make the game more interesting for existing players or easy to pick up for the new players. I think the more important question is "do tanks need any nerfs?" Every time I see people rallying to nerf the tanks the thread is full of Zerg players. Maybe instead of weaker tanks you need to find a new way to fight tanks. Think about it, they aren't anything special when they aren't in siege mode, and don't move when in siege mode. Protoss players still complain about SC1 tanks, but time has shone that they can be beaten. I have a feeling that SC2 Zergs will soon figure out how to deal with them. Agreed. While there may be a legitimate complaint, I feel a lot of people are just upset that a mechanic they mastered in BW is no longer applicable in SC2. | ||
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SichuanPanda
Canada1542 Posts
On July 11 2010 03:27 SiNiquity wrote: Agreed. While there may be a legitimate complaint, I feel a lot of people are just upset that a mechanic they mastered in BW is no longer applicable in SC2. Took the words out of my mouth. Exactly. SC2 is a different game with a different UI and therefore mechanics of controlling units will be different. I know we all love BW and its a very very good game - the top 5 games of all time would easily have SC:BW at #1,2, or 3. We will have to learn to work around the AI of SC2 to get the behavior we want just like we did in BW - just in different areas. You CAN bug the current tank AI, its just different than before. In BW you basically ran some fodder in and then used the 1-2 second cool down on every tank to take some out. In SC2 - especially as Zerg - the race who has the most problems with tanks, you can 'dodge' the tank fire, that is to say, if you run a very fast unit past the line of fire (i.e. Zerglings) the tanks will pick a spot and fire, and your lings will have moved out of that spot by the time the damage hits. | ||
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