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At All times remember i'm not complaining just My opinion so don't flame
So as many of us have woke up to find our Starcraft 2 being patched to the current v19. In this patch spawn'd units were changed from Attack move to RP (Rally Point) to Move to RP. Now i'm not trying to complain or anything, but this was one of the key features i like about Starcraft 2 over BW. Simply because u can set your RP of your Raxx your Gateway to a unit on the field, this helps to keep the army together and spawning units will engage enimy armies with the rest of your army. Now if we set our RP to a unit the future spawning units will simply follow it.
I mean yea sure you can just set your RP to beside your army, or telling the spawning units to attack move to army when spawn'd. I read somewhere about people saying this is good because it add to a list of things to do and not making the game play its self, and that while trying to proxy their spawn'd probe would attack the enemies scouting worker. I simply reply to that as BW was a great game but lacked allot of good game play mechanics such as if you have your eye off your spawning units for a second they would die. I know this probably frustrated allot of people as it did to me. Allot of people are forgetting that Starcraft 2 is not BW and therefore will have different game play and mechanics that we will all get use to. Now the problem when your trying to proxy it shouldn't be easy thats were you should have to micro your units because your getting an advantage so thats not even a valid argument, and i hope thats not why Blizz changed the spawning system.
Any ways leave your comments.
Don't Troll/Flame or anything bad or we might just have to use our real names too.
GLHF posting
Edit: (on my itouch 4 give grammer) ummm so we know beta is back, and I actually got to see how horrible this whole Move-RP is. eg.. was in game, and about 3-4 void rays were in my base. My game changing thors poped out, now i was all like YES. Then to my surprise i watched my idiot thors walk of to the rally point taking fully charged rays to their backs. Now if it could of just attacked before the VRays were in range i cuda killed off a few.
Now a reasonable fix for this like some one posted earlier, was make the option were the production building can toogle spawning units between A-Move and Move to RP, just like how you cant set SCV's to auto repair by right clicking repair. This way everyones happy
Thought blehh why not throw in a poll
Poll: Did you prefer Attack Move RP, Or will you like the Move RP better?Attack Move RP (818) 64% Move RP (454) 36% 1272 total votes Your vote: Did you prefer Attack Move RP, Or will you like the Move RP better? (Vote): Attack Move RP
(Vote): Move RP
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A move command on an enemy unit automatically becomes an attack move...
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I think the biggest thing (for me at least) will be the ability to rally my zerglings behind the hatchery when marines are attacking the front. As it is I always lose one of them at least before I can get them all to turn around and get out (and I start with egg selected spamming, but they always take 2 steps towards the marines first).
If I want an attack move it is much easier to select them in transition (or if it is to attack something really close just don't give them a rally point).
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I prefered attack move waypoints but it shouldn't change too much. I asume waypointed gateways on scouting scvs would cause the unit spawned to attack that scv. However if not then rally points are kinda useless now. A lot of reasons for blizzard to change rally points and the biggest one probably just to make it feel more like bw instead of wc3, however I would like to have attack move points a lot more than move ones.
P.S notice how I attempted to use the words "a lot" a lot. 
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actually i like it better when the rally point was attack move... since you could rally it to your army while attacking... now u cant since if ur army is in the base and the other guy send the army behind you or something... all ur reinforcements will just die while "moving toward your army"
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On July 08 2010 10:10 freshiie22 wrote:
At All times remember i'm not complaining just My opinion so don't flame
So as many of us have woke up to find our Starcraft 2 being patched to the current v19. In this patch spawn'd units were changed from Attack move to RP (Rally Point) to Move to RP. Now i'm not trying to complain or anything, but this was one of the key features i like about Starcraft 2 over BW. Simply because u can set your RP of your Raxx your Gateway to a unit on the field, this helps to keep the army together. Now if we set our RP to a unit the future spawning units will simply follow it.
I mean yea sure you can just set your RP to beside your army, or telling the spawning units to attack move to army when spawn'd. I read somewhere about people saying this is good because it add to a list of things to do and not making the game play its self, and that while trying to proxy their spawn'd probe would attack the enemies scouting worker. I simply reply to that as BW was a great game but lacked allot of good game play mechanics such as if you have your eye off your spawning units for a second they would die. I know this probably frustrated allot of people as it did to me. Allot of people are forgetting that Starcraft 2 is not BW and therefore will have different game play and mechanics that we will all get use to. Now the problem when your trying to proxy it shouldn't be easy thats were you should have to micro your units because your getting an advantage so thats not even a valid argument, and i hope thats not why Blizz changed the spawning system.
Any ways leave your comments.
Don't Troll/Flame or anything bad or we might just have to use our real names too.
GLHF posting
what? I dont understand how this makes any sense at all...
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On July 08 2010 10:15 InTriX wrote:I prefered attack move waypoints but it shouldn't change too much. I asume waypointed gateways on scouting scvs would cause the unit spawned to attack that scv. However if not then rally points are kinda useless now. A lot of reasons for blizzard to change rally points and the biggest one probably just to make it feel more like bw instead of wc3, however I would like to have attack move points a lot more than move ones. P.S notice how I attempted to use the words "a lot" a lot.
war3's rally points weren't attack-move iirc
I think the reason is to enforce the notion that you have complete control over everything. You rally point your hatcheries to the center of the map, so you expect all the units to end up there. You're not going to have any units wandering around attacking a stray scv or something. All your units are going to be where you told them to be
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I thought rally = attack-move made things more difficult. With rally = move, it gets the new units to the rally point asap. i used to hate when they would stop to kill an overlord when i need them to keep the pressure on the opponent or having a massive battle.
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On July 08 2010 10:16 Yokoblue wrote:
actually i like it better when the rally point was attack move... since you could rally it to your army while attacking... now u cant since if ur army is in the base and the other guy send the army behind you or something... all ur reinforcements will just die while "moving toward your army"
thats what i'm saying, but then agen the patch just came out today and none of us actually got to play yet so we don't even know if it works like how we think, but hey i'm board so lets talk about something while beta take 4ever
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I'm actually a fan of units rallying by move, not by attack-move. Hate my rallied units chasing scouts around when they should be going where I told them. I don't have any issues with selecting them to make them attack when needed
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I think there are benefits to both ways. Maybe they should have made an option to choose which one you want, although this would clutter the UI.
If I had to pick one or the other I would pick move command. I don't want the enemy purposely luring my incoming units away while I'm busy microing in his base. Of course someone can use the argument "you should have good enough micro to pay attention to your units". But I think luring units away with a probe is more like abusing a bug in the game than an actual strategical decision
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Attack move on rally was terrible. I lost countless games because zerglings ran to their deaths instead of running to the rally. Even if you are boxing over them when they hatch and sending them back its often too late for many of them.
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On July 08 2010 10:16 Yokoblue wrote:
actually i like it better when the rally point was attack move... since you could rally it to your army while attacking... now u cant since if ur army is in the base and the other guy send the army behind you or something... all ur reinforcements will just die while "moving toward your army"
Your reinforcements would die anyways if they were cut off, now you just need to pay a little more attention to them, or in some cases less attention.
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Blizzard still doesn't get it. Don't worry, I'll let you all in on how Rally Point should be.
Have a toggle option for Rally-Move and Rally-Attack Move. Holy crap, how was the solution so simple? The default should be Rally-Move, but Attack Move undoubtedly has its uses as well.
It could be like toggling Autocast on and off - just right click on the Rally Point symbol to switch between Move and Attack move.
Why the hell not?
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On July 08 2010 10:20 Eeeegor wrote:
I'm actually a fan of units rallying by move, not by attack-move. Hate my rallied units chasing scouts around when they should be going where I told them. I don't have any issues with selecting them to make them attack when needed
well this goes both ways we can simply attack move our units and you can put yours on hold
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i love how literally everyone who is against a hard game drags the good ol "this is sc2 not bw" like its a bad thing. ideally u would copy as much as possible from bw cause its by far best esport game and lived longest but yet as soon as something sounds like its similar to bw, for example this rally point then immediately its a bad thing
i dont see why blizz just dont divide the rally into a move-rally and a attack-rally like worker-rally and general-rally, whats so bad about this lol
just give the move-rally the normal click as hotkey or R if u may and then click. then if u wanna attack rally u click A then on the ground
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Its an unfortunate change but not the end of the world. Maybe just a sign the end of the world is coming but not the end of the world itself.
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While double gating zerg it was irritating when a zealot would attack a scouting drone however I would easily notice the scouting drone and tell my zealot what I wanted him to do.
With just movement It would take longer to notice a zealot running head first into a zergling meaning the ling will either get a free hit/2 or will be able to avoid my zealot.
Granted it wont be hard to select all zealots when they spawn to issue an attack move, however it means I have to go back to my base to macro properly (also it doubles the time required to macro).
P.S. zealot is just an example unit.
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i think this is great because a few units intercepting reinforcements will make games more fun to watch, this things, like drops and worker harrasment, are awesome
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On July 08 2010 10:22 Crisium wrote:
Blizzard still doesn't get it. Don't worry, I'll let you all in on how Rally Point should be.
Have a toggle option for Rally-Move and Rally-Attack Move. Holy crap, how was the solution so simple? The default should be Rally-Move, but Attack Move undoubtedly has its uses as well.
It could be like toggling Autocast on and off - just right click on the Rally Point symbol to switch between Move and Attack move.
Why the hell not?
I PRESSED LIKE
if i was on facebook. i like that tho thats what they should do
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On July 08 2010 10:23 MorroW wrote:
i dont see why blizz just dont divide the rally into a move-rally and a attack-rally like worker-rally and general-rally, whats so bad about this lol
just give the move-rally the normal click as hotkey or R if u may and then click. then if u wanna attack rally u click A then on the ground
This is probably the best option.
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On July 08 2010 10:23 InTriX wrote:
While double gating zerg it was irritating when a zealot would attack a scouting drone however I would easily notice the scouting drone and tell my zealot what I wanted him to do.
With just movement It would take longer to notice a zealot running head first into a zergling meaning the ling will either get a free hit/2 or will be able to avoid my zealot.
Granted it wont be hard to select all zealots when they spawn to issue an attack move, however it means I have to go back to my base to macro properly (also it doubles the time required to macro).
P.S. zealot is just an example unit.
so in short words it encourages micromanagement from both sides and nothing else is affected. well i guess it all comes down to if blizzard wants a good esport or a good game for casual gamers, i suppose browder made a wrong turn on this one huh
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It will make intercepting renforcements more of a goal again, which i think is good. It gives more of a sence of teritory
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It means there is more micro involved. How is that bad? Only going to make players have to work hard to produce results. I find it to be a great change.
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I think this will be a non-issue in most, if not all, cases. Units getting intercepted while rallied is rare, and even if they were attack-moved, they will still die fairly quickly against a huge army. On the other hand, I see/face more situations in which my production buildings are being attacked by a relatively small force in early game pushes and would rather my units not attack and just move back to worker lines and build up from there.
In short, pros of atkmove rally don't outway the cons in my opinion/observations.
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I found it highly annoying when like 2 zergling popped and they just rushed for the enemy if he was in your base. Now they'll run to where I want them without doing stuff that I don't want them to do so I can make a larger force to attack with.
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lol first everyone was bitchin that rally was attack move, and now that they finally listened and changed it back, people are bitchin again. just stfu and be glad that blizzard even considers our opinions (unlike most companies).
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The bad thing about the attack-move RP is that when you are surrounded by the enemy and you want you new-made units to escape from the fire, they will never listen.
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I think the game should just choose (based on enemy composition) what units I make with my money, too.
Don't flame this please. New game means new mechanics.
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I LOVE this change.
No longer will my 4 zerglings die to the one hellion shot the instant they spawn. I do have them rallied elsewhere, I don't expect them to go suicide if I don't tell them to.
Yay ;]
Say what you will about skill, hand speed etc. I don't find it hard to micro, but with smartcast, it is now impossible to pop 6 zerglings at the exact same time. You must hit the button repeatedly, or else hold it down. Either way, your units are staggered.
With the right distance from the spawnpoint, it was SO easy for hellions, et al, to get 1-2 free shots before your units could even touch them, and before you could draw a box around them and move them away.
This is a GREAT change, and I don't feel that people have much to complain about.
Sure it adds another element of micro when you want to attack.
....but weren't we all complaining about how "SC2 doesn't have enough micro"...?
On July 08 2010 10:32 Alou wrote:
It means there is more micro involved. How is that bad? Only going to make players have to work hard to produce results. I find it to be a great change.
Me too Mr Alou!
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On July 08 2010 10:10 freshiie22 wrote:
Starcraft 2 is not BW Too bad. Broodwar is an awesome game.
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this seems to be more of a problem to wards zerg players and their delicate zerglings chasing down a marine or w,e. As for me when i do my MMM ball i don't want my reinforcing Marauder to just try to run through 50 Million lings and ujst dieing i rather it attack and at least pay for its self somewhat before it dies
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I agree. It should be a toggle at the production facility. But I think it should default to move not attack.
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Bleh, I really liked the attack rally a lot :'(
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Canada2480 Posts
truth is that this augment skill cap which is not a bad thing at all in SC2 case(does not make the game more interesting to watch though T_T)
Edit: oh noes... I need to actually go back to my base for another reason then larva injecting O_O I'll never play this game again. [sarcasm]
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Move rally is fine IMO, though you could make an argument for rally to unit, which was a nice feature on occasion. I think this will give a little more distinction between top level players and those just starting out, as you get punished easier with bad rally points and you can pick off rally lines if you have some units between his army and production facilities.
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On July 08 2010 10:26 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 10:23 InTriX wrote:
While double gating zerg it was irritating when a zealot would attack a scouting drone however I would easily notice the scouting drone and tell my zealot what I wanted him to do.
With just movement It would take longer to notice a zealot running head first into a zergling meaning the ling will either get a free hit/2 or will be able to avoid my zealot.
Granted it wont be hard to select all zealots when they spawn to issue an attack move, however it means I have to go back to my base to macro properly (also it doubles the time required to macro).
P.S. zealot is just an example unit. so in short words it encourages micromanagement from both sides and nothing else is affected. well i guess it all comes down to if blizzard wants a good esport or a good game for casual gamers, i suppose browder made a wrong turn on this one huh
My attempted point was that it dosn't add any micro, it just adds more damaging micro. Normaly u would lose a few seconds, now you can lose a few zealots. Same amount of micro but with a lot more damaging consequences.
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Attack move rallies were amazing.
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On July 08 2010 10:23 InTriX wrote:
With just movement It would take longer to notice a zealot running head first into a zergling meaning the ling will either get a free hit/2 or will be able to avoid my zealot.
So what? The Zerg player should get the first attack in because he was paying attention and you weren't.
This just sounds like another I want the game to play for me complaint.
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I've read no arguments against having a toggle-able rally point which when right clicked, will have units attack move, and will have units move by default, just like auto-repair. This is the best of both worlds with an easy and intuitive interface.
And for those of you wondering, Warcraft III uses attack move rally points.
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On July 08 2010 10:22 Bosu wrote:
Attack move on rally was terrible. I lost countless games because zerglings ran to their deaths instead of running to the rally. Even if you are boxing over them when they hatch and sending them back its often too late for many of them.
after phase 2 came up and playing 4 games, i lost any time i got rushed, cuz all my lings would just suicide into the attacking force.
i kept trying to make the rally point closer and closer to my base, and i realized that this adds a whole other thing i now have to worry about. i have to actually babysit my rallypoint to make sure there are no attacking forces in-between. this is awful for me.
so far the poll is approx 50/50. if it is split down the middle, would it be too hard to ask for blizzard to just make this a gameplay setting for each person to choose their preference?
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Can I have both? Why not
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Why not make both options available in game? The default rally point would set as Move, but selecting the building, pressing A, then setting rally point would make it Attack move.
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The attack-move waypoint is very convenient, just right click and forget, it has its downsides but after a taste of this it'll be a little difficult breaking the habit (until the first time I right click on a SCV in my base and realize my zealot is just moving around, not actually attacking).
I guess its for the best, it was kinda "cheap" to be able to make it start attacking right out of spawn without any additional input, I guess this'll just be another thing to worry about when microing.
Edit: being able to A-click while selecting the building would be convenient, and would allow people to have the option of attack-moving...I suppose we'll see what blizz's overall intention with this change was as to wether they implement something similar.
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why is this an issue exactly? if you don't like it, you can still set it by shift+a clicking. and if you do like it, then awesome.
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Wow.. poll results are split perfectly even, 44-44... I'm really not sure. Needs a toggle IMO, there are situations where either would be useful.
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Why blizzard dont make a menu with these kind of things ?
Then we could customize them... we are in 2010 I really don't understand why all this is still so complicated for them.
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Either way doesnt make a huge difference, although it causes a few less fuckups having them a-move to the point.
Just out of personal prefrence tho i prefer them to 'move' where i rally point =]
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I'm so glad it's a move-RP now. Heaven forbid you do as little micro as possible when you do all-in strategies, especially how macro is a lot easier now do. It's not even as hard compared to BW. You could only select 12 units in BW which made it much more difficult to gather all your rallied units and move them away. Not to mention re-rallying your unit producing structures. Now we can re-rally everything with a click or two and select an infinite amount of units, we are still complaining that we can't just sit there and watch our armies 1a into each other? Please.
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Just make it an option that you can choose in the menu. Players are not babies, we can choose what is good for us.
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I rather the move rally point. If I am facing a rush, I rally all of my zerglings to somewhere safe to group up and then defend. With the attack move rally point, the zerglings run to the marines or zealots and they usually take unnecessary hits. The attack rally gives less control.
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this hurts my ability to defend hellion harass because me lings pop and run past the hellions before i can tell them to attack, so the hellions get a free roast on my lings. it makes it real hard to get units into the fight asap, especially that there is no way to remove a rally point
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
It is now as it should have been. In no twisted world units should be attacking anything when set to rally at a point. This kinda screws you up over and over if you produce units under pressure because instead of massing behind your gates they will go attacking the enemy.
Thank you Blizzard.
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Blizzard have clearly shown so far - they are not interested in making/keeping the game unnecessarily APM-intensive. Their decision means they think RP-move makes it more comfortable and logical to play. I disagree, I think the drawbacks outweigh the advantages, by far. Once this gets confirmed by the players stats, I hope they will revert back to a-move.
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On July 08 2010 12:52 Lazix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 10:23 InTriX wrote:
With just movement It would take longer to notice a zealot running head first into a zergling meaning the ling will either get a free hit/2 or will be able to avoid my zealot.
So what? The Zerg player should get the first attack in because he was paying attention and you weren't. This just sounds like another I want the game to play for me complaint.
You don't understand the point of the post, read my second one where i clarified the point.
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Having it a-move is just silly. I want my units to listen to what i tell them to do. I don't want units that spawned to be chasing a random unit when they're supposed to be reinforcing their allies. Why on earth would you even you even want the rallys to be a-moved other than to make the game easier.
ex. drops in the main esp against zergs arent even as effective anymore as in BW. any units that spawn would automatically attack the dropped units. it doesn't test the reaction time of the players at alll. but with this fix players will be forced to immediately respond against a drop! no more. " o crap a drop!" "oh wait my units that just spawned already killed it"
Seriously it isn't a bad thing that blizz is using the same mechanics in sc2 that were in bw...
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On July 08 2010 10:15 Sixes wrote:
I think the biggest thing (for me at least) will be the ability to rally my zerglings behind the hatchery when marines are attacking the front. As it is I always lose one of them at least before I can get them all to turn around and get out (and I start with egg selected spamming, but they always take 2 steps towards the marines first).
If I want an attack move it is much easier to select them in transition (or if it is to attack something really close just don't give them a rally point).
We should have the choice :
- Click the RP : move
- Shift Click the RP : A move.
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I actually think a-move was bad because sometimes my rally pointed unit would start attacking an enemy unit on it's way to my opponent's base. So obviously this would delay the time of the unit reinforcing my main army.
For example, a thor would start shooting an overlord when I really needed it to reinforce my army vs mutalisks.
It just means that we'll have to be more defensive and wary with our rally points
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isnt it more frustrating to watch your units follow each other, because of coarse you RP to a unit, instead that 2secs they could of been attacking. I mean supposed you want them to attack. the options should be avaible to change and it could add a cool new mech in SC2
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Sweden33719 Posts
This is a great choice - it's not the best alternative (best would be if A-click would be attack move rally and left or M+click would be MOVE rally), but it's better than the first one.
It just sucks when you are defending and every unit you make will try to suicide into the enemy as soon as it pops out.
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On July 08 2010 13:19 Fizzgig wrote:
I've read no arguments against having a toggle-able rally point which when right clicked, will have units attack move, and will have units move by default, just like auto-repair. This is the best of both worlds with an easy and intuitive interface.
And for those of you wondering, Warcraft III uses attack move rally points.
Thats true, I guess if the enemy decides to pick off your reinf your pretty much screwed, but we should be able to chose how the die if so, attacking or running buy
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I feel this makes zerglings VERY weak against protoss. I used to defend my nat, many times with a nice zergling spawn and now they just run through zealots getting instagibbed on the way. Also is it just me of do zerglings feel even weaker now? I dont know what it o_o
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MICRO YOUR UNITS.
USE MORE THAN 30 APM
Seriously everyone whining about this (fantastic) change just points out that "their guys die omg". Whereas the people arguing in favor of the move mechanic actually have decent points. I.E. Rines near hatch, want lings to move away so you can build them up, rally attacking scouts needlessly, etc.
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lol I couldn't imagine having Attack-Move-RP in BW but I guess for new players it's nice to have. Sucks for us others who would like to control our units though.
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On July 08 2010 16:53 Orzabal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 10:15 Sixes wrote:
I think the biggest thing (for me at least) will be the ability to rally my zerglings behind the hatchery when marines are attacking the front. As it is I always lose one of them at least before I can get them all to turn around and get out (and I start with egg selected spamming, but they always take 2 steps towards the marines first).
If I want an attack move it is much easier to select them in transition (or if it is to attack something really close just don't give them a rally point). We should have the choice : - Click the RP : move - Shift Click the RP : A move.
I like the idea
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just make it like move and a-move. Press "A" when issuing the rally point to make it an attack rally.
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There is nothing more frustrating than having my spawning lings charging at an enemy when their rally point is set in the opposite direction. The amount of lings Ive lost to this is just rage inducing, and theres NOTHING I can do about it but try and grab them before they get roasted.
The move rally is far better, however I support a toggle
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Move RP!
This is the best feature that comes with the "new beta", finally this game is becoming a bit more complicated. This is important because it shows that blizz may stop taking the way of "everbody is a winner" and start creating a competitive game
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Rally move is so more controllable.
When you get your early expo hatch attacked by marines and you build 12 lings out of your 2 hatcheries an want to rally up your choke.
All the lings will actually run out there and you won't have half of your army attacking out of position + other half up the choke...
This happened to me several times.
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Move rally is by far better. In 100% of situations you have more time to grab your units and go from move -> attack move than you have to grab your units and make them go from attack move -> move.
I don't support a toggle because it's just another annoying level of complexity in the game's UI. I would support such an option in the game's options though. Default should be move, because it's better and while it's a bit of personal taste I'd still say it's worse to go attack-move default.
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On July 08 2010 19:44 Kashll wrote:
MICRO YOUR UNITS.
USE MORE THAN 30 APM
Seriously everyone whining about this (fantastic) change just points out that "their guys die omg". Whereas the people arguing in favor of the move mechanic actually have decent points. I.E. Rines near hatch, want lings to move away so you can build them up, rally attacking scouts needlessly, etc.
when playing in a 2v2 as a zerg player, this change gives me alot of grief. when my teammate was getting attacked by a huge force, I of course rally all my hatcheries to his base to try and help. but since there are multiple expansions, the units come from multiple directions.
if i dont babysit every direction, then I lose units for free. I can't just draw a rectangle around them, because there was usually an overlord above their heads, and it takes too long to shift click the overlords out of my rectangle, because the units move so fast on creep that they reach the enemy force and die. imagine trying to select a group of 12 speedlings on creep (super fast!) rushing towards their own death. its like i have to save all my units from jumping off a cliff.
It's especially difficult when the units running are of different unit types; then it will take multiple ctrl-clicks to save them all. as zerg, all the units pop out of eggs, which means that they will not always run as a cluster, but be spread out a little bit, which makes boxing them even more challenging.
I want the option of choosing a-move rally, or I might have to switch to protoss who gets warp-in. this is awful for me. and yes, my APM is higher than 30, but when there is a million things going on at once, I dont want to spend a huge chunk of my time babysitting units that will kill themselves if I don't stop them, especially when a quick change can give me more of my ingame time back to things that are more useful.
the sad part is that I wish I could post my opinion on the official bliz forum, but I really don't want to post my first and last name, so I can only hope that bliz would read this thread and this poll.
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It's very situational and sometimes you need so spawned units attack-move and sometime to just go in exact location.
Let's say if i plan early rush as zerg and i set RP to enemy base and there is probe in my base, then zerglings will attack probe so i need to separate move them.
Does not really matter..
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On July 08 2010 16:53 Orzabal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 10:15 Sixes wrote:
I think the biggest thing (for me at least) will be the ability to rally my zerglings behind the hatchery when marines are attacking the front. As it is I always lose one of them at least before I can get them all to turn around and get out (and I start with egg selected spamming, but they always take 2 steps towards the marines first).
If I want an attack move it is much easier to select them in transition (or if it is to attack something really close just don't give them a rally point). We should have the choice : - Click the RP : move - Shift Click the RP : A move.
Shift already has a use when setting production facility rally points. It lets you set waypoints in the rally point. So for example you can make your rax rally point go around an enemy cannon not thru it.
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should have both options.
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its not the worst change
now sc2 gets somehow more difficult.
especially when massing units
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I agree, shift click rally point could be attack
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I really don’t see why there can’t be both options. Personally, I liked A-move RP. Perhaps ALT + right-click for A-move…?
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On July 08 2010 22:32 godlfishs wrote:
I agree, shift click rally point could be attack
Shift-click for attack would mess up the ability to issue multiple move commands or a-move commands, which would kind of suck. Sometimes to have to make your units go an alternate path and not a straight line.
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click = move
a+click = attack move?
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having both would be nice.
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a on a barracks trains a marine  , just somthing simple that obviously would never be used such as J. or right click on the icon
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On July 08 2010 22:39 Grokken wrote:
click = move
a+click = attack move?
yes thats what we want. and add 2 manual buttons Rally and Attack rally for the casual gamers
On July 08 2010 23:06 InTriX wrote:a on a barracks trains a marine , just somthing simple that obviously would never be used such as J. or right click on the icon
nice find but they could just change marine hotkey to M, like it was in sc1 ) or maybe its so far away on the keyboard that casual gamers will never make marines
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can't you just a-click your rally point? you know you can even cue multiple waypoints with a rally point. you can also rally to enemy units/structure for a direct attack command...
u need to set a move point first (Right outside the racks or watever) and then your 2nd cue can be an attack move... untested i dunno, can't play atm.
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I like it being 'A' to make a marine. Then it's B to make the orbital command. A then B is easy to remember :-P
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I hated attack move rally points. You'd have to be lightning fast to collect all zerglings at a hatch that was being attacked otherwise they would all instantly die. Move rally points adds more macro to the game albeit small.
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On July 08 2010 23:31 Attica wrote:
I hated attack move rally points. You'd have to be lightning fast to collect all zerglings at a hatch that was being attacked otherwise they would all instantly die. Move rally points adds more macro to the game albeit small.
that's assuming in that context you do not want them to defend the hatch yet.
what if they are attacking your main hatch, of course you want all your hatching eggs to immediately engage the attacking force as soon as possible, because you are dying. rally-attack-move allows for this. Now I have to be lightning fast to select units suiciding themselves into the attacking force, and tell them to attack the attacking force instead of just bumping into them.
i just really hope bliz just lets us choose what we want, because i really hate move rally points.
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On July 09 2010 00:40 mijones wrote:
that's assuming in that context you do not want them to defend the hatch yet.
Yes, a pretty common situation: you get pushed, and with the units you are producing in your main and your natural together you could repel the attack. Attackmove-rp means that some of the units hatching at the attacked hatchery get decimated before you could make any use out of them, because they alone won't repel the attack.
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it's a good change imo, regular move should be default.
1. makes long distance rally a little more risky
2. means that you don't have to work your ass off to manually pull your new units back if you're being attacked at your base.
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On July 09 2010 00:40 mijones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 23:31 Attica wrote:
I hated attack move rally points. You'd have to be lightning fast to collect all zerglings at a hatch that was being attacked otherwise they would all instantly die. Move rally points adds more macro to the game albeit small. that's assuming in that context you do not want them to defend the hatch yet. what if they are attacking your main hatch, of course you want all your hatching eggs to immediately engage the attacking force as soon as possible, because you are dying. rally-attack-move allows for this. Now I have to be lightning fast to select units suiciding themselves into the attacking force, and tell them to attack the attacking force instead of just bumping into them. i just really hope bliz just lets us choose what we want, because i really hate move rally points.
in that case you just remove the rally point and your units instantly attack...
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yeah really this was an obvious and complete step backwards.
i mean, uhh...keep mbs and take out new rally point feature and replace it with the old one?
while you're at it blizz, take out mbs and uus.
i guess the main this is why isn't this just a feature for workers?
also i guess maybe it's not as big of a deal to lose army units in sc compared to wc3 because wc3 units are worth more as you have less...but i still think it's silly.
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How can anyone vote for attack move to rally? In 1 out of 100 cases the units get intercepted and do nothing before they die instead of firing 2 shots and then dieing. But in a lot of games i have the problem that i want to rally my units somewhere into my base while my hatch or whatever is being attacked. So the Zerglings spawn and run straight into death instead of doing what i want...
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On July 09 2010 01:34 Error Ash wrote:
How can anyone vote for attack move to rally? In 1 out of 100 cases the units get intercepted and do nothing before they die instead of firing 2 shots and then dieing. But in a lot of games i have the problem that i want to rally my units somewhere into my base while my hatch or whatever is being attacked. So the Zerglings spawn and run straight into death instead of doing what i want...
lol you took my opinion word for word.
i was surprised the poll was so close.
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On July 09 2010 00:40 mijones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 23:31 Attica wrote:
I hated attack move rally points. You'd have to be lightning fast to collect all zerglings at a hatch that was being attacked otherwise they would all instantly die. Move rally points adds more macro to the game albeit small. that's assuming in that context you do not want them to defend the hatch yet. what if they are attacking your main hatch, of course you want all your hatching eggs to immediately engage the attacking force as soon as possible, because you are dying. rally-attack-move allows for this. Now I have to be lightning fast to select units suiciding themselves into the attacking force, and tell them to attack the attacking force instead of just bumping into them. i just really hope bliz just lets us choose what we want, because i really hate move rally points.
Then you simply set your rally point to that Hatchery itself and they attack upon spawning.
There's no need for this many rally points.
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I think the poll speaks for itself, one half wants a-move, the other half wants move.
Easiest solution for everyone would be just a toggle, default value could be move or what ever is considered "noob" friendliest. I loved the a-move and hated the move in BW. For me this is a step backwards, not forwards. I can see why some wants the move, but yeah I don't want it.
Make a toggle blizzard, please!
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On July 09 2010 01:41 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 01:34 Error Ash wrote:
How can anyone vote for attack move to rally? In 1 out of 100 cases the units get intercepted and do nothing before they die instead of firing 2 shots and then dieing. But in a lot of games i have the problem that i want to rally my units somewhere into my base while my hatch or whatever is being attacked. So the Zerglings spawn and run straight into death instead of doing what i want... lol you took my opinion word for word. i was surprised the poll was so close.
maybe many zergs that loved to do the 200/200 attack -> rally into enemy -> pump mass roaches for all that dies -> win move
other then that i doubt anyone who either played broodwar or ever had to struggle with the autoaggro while defending prefers the old mechanic.
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This game is about control!! I WANT TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL MY UNITS! NOT have them run off without me ordering them to. Having your units listen to your command will be better in the long run. Those in favor of A-moving rally just want to make the game easier as if it isnt easy enough already.
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in all honesty, i think you should be able to attack-move your gateway/barracks/eggs so that spawns will attack move or just move to rally move... its not that hard to implement... it really isnt...
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On July 09 2010 01:52 HaruHaru wrote:
This game is about control!! I WANT TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL MY UNITS! NOT have them run off without me ordering them to. Having your units listen to your command will be better in the long run. Those in favor of A-moving rally just want to make the game easier as if it isnt easy enough already.
I'm sure that Move-Rally players want Move-Rally because it's easier for them, just like AttackMove-Rally players want AttackMove-Rally because it's easier for them.
It simply comes down to personal preference of which style is easiest for that person. Give us both options so that everybody is happy.
The issue is that we cannot post this feedback on the official bliz forums because:
- real name issue
- even if you try to post on the suggestion forum, it gives an error
So we just have to hope that blizzard reads TL, and that they read this thread.
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OK, seriously people,
READ THE DAMN THREAD.
You can already do either attack move rally or move rally. As several people mentioned, a+click sets the rally as an attack move.
You can even combine rally points.
1. Select building
2. Hold Shift.
3. a+ right click your natural choke
4. Right click to your main army
5. Let go of shift
Your units will now leave the production building, ATTACK MOVE to your natural, then MOVE to meet up with your main army.
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On July 09 2010 02:04 AraqirG wrote:
OK, seriously people,
READ THE DAMN THREAD.
You can already do either attack move rally or move rally. As several people mentioned, a+click sets the rally as an attack move.
You can even combine rally points.
1. Select building
2. Hold Shift.
3. a+ right click your natural choke
4. Right click to your main army
5. Let go of shift
Your units will now leave the production building, ATTACK MOVE to your natural, then MOVE to meet up with your main army.
theres only 1 person that claimed a+click worked on building rallys, everyone else that mentioned it was suggesting that it would be a good feature
can you confirm 100% that a+right click rally exists? if so that's awesome. (i'm not at home right now to test this myself)
PS: does it work on barracks, since 'a' is to build a marine?
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In all honesty, this is one of the things I don't understand.
Blizzard does things that make the game easier and require less micro/macro, people complain.
Blizzard does things that make the game harder and require more micro/macro, people complain.
x_X
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This is zero reason why blizzard can't just make right click on the rally location Attack move and left click normal move with something like shift click to force it to always attack move. As protoss, attack move is more useful to me.
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This is actually hurting me in my games.
Just have to get use to it -_-'. Anyone else being affected noticeably?
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On July 09 2010 02:24 darmousseh wrote:
This is zero reason why blizzard can't just make right click on the rally location Attack move and left click normal move with something like shift click to force it to always attack move. As protoss, attack move is more useful to me.
aside from the fact that left click is a selection command so by implementing such a feature anyone who selects a command center to build an SCV will be unable to select anything else unless they stop the rally and then ctrl+f1 to gain control of a unit other than the SCV.
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When I first played I lost a games because of attack move. I rallied my first 6 zerglings some where and the opponent would run around with there scouting scv to delay the zerglings. I even saw the worker coming and didn't mind it but i remember the zerglings just being a bit to late, enufff that my 6 pool failed :<
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On July 09 2010 02:33 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 02:24 darmousseh wrote:
This is zero reason why blizzard can't just make right click on the rally location Attack move and left click normal move with something like shift click to force it to always attack move. As protoss, attack move is more useful to me. aside from the fact that left click is a selection command so by implementing such a feature anyone who selects a command center to build an SCV will be unable to select anything else unless they stop the rally and then ctrl+f1 to gain control of a unit other than the SCV.
You misunderstand. What i mean is the rally button itself, not the hotkey nor the mousekey, but the virtual button in the commands panel. Left-clicking on the rally button on the panel would be normal move, right clicking on the rally button on the panel would be attack move (kinda like right-clicking repair makes an svc go into auto-repair mode)
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This change is retarded. I just lost a game because I nydused and set the rally to his worker line, and all my units suicided
Do they really expect me to individually select every unit as it comes out and tell it to attack? or do I have to wait until my entire army comes out of the nydus and then attack...
They really didn't think this through, they just changed it on a whim...
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I had a hard time voting for which one i liked better so I didnt vote. Sometimes I like the attack move RP and sometimes I like the move RP better. It depends on the situation.
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On July 09 2010 02:04 AraqirG wrote:
OK, seriously people,
READ THE DAMN THREAD.
You can already do either attack move rally or move rally. As several people mentioned, a+click sets the rally as an attack move.
You can even combine rally points.
1. Select building
2. Hold Shift.
3. a+ right click your natural choke
4. Right click to your main army
5. Let go of shift
Your units will now leave the production building, ATTACK MOVE to your natural, then MOVE to meet up with your main army.
does this even work, and if it did why cant there be a shorter way, right click auto attack, right click agen move
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On July 09 2010 02:21 Seam wrote:
In all honesty, this is one of the things I don't understand.
Blizzard does things that make the game easier and require less micro/macro, people complain.
Blizzard does things that make the game harder and require more micro/macro, people complain.
x_X
people != people...
It's obviously not the same people that complain... And this just shows that you can't please everyone (unless in this case you could make something like right click -> move, a click -> attack move...)
Still like move far more, as spawning units won't suicide when defending... Lost hundreds of zerglings this way... Also i can't see why people can't just a click when they want a bunch of stuff to attack move...
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United States47024 Posts
On July 08 2010 13:22 mijones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2010 10:22 Bosu wrote:
Attack move on rally was terrible. I lost countless games because zerglings ran to their deaths instead of running to the rally. Even if you are boxing over them when they hatch and sending them back its often too late for many of them. after phase 2 came up and playing 4 games, i lost any time i got rushed, cuz all my lings would just suicide into the attacking force. i kept trying to make the rally point closer and closer to my base, and i realized that this adds a whole other thing i now have to worry about. i have to actually babysit my rallypoint to make sure there are no attacking forces in-between. this is awful for me. so far the poll is approx 50/50. if it is split down the middle, would it be too hard to ask for blizzard to just make this a gameplay setting for each person to choose their preference?
It's funny, because people complained the opposite is true--with attack rally it was hard to get zerglings to gather up before you kill the attacking units, and they would die attacking the units surrounding the hatchery.
That said, I question why you're setting your rally further than your natural or your ramp at that early stage of the game. Even if they're not rushing you, you'd want your zerglings in a position to deny a scout at your ramp or your choke.
Also, if you think that managing your rally points is hard now, just imagine how it was before we had MBS!
My opinion about the issue:
It is good when the interface makes units do what you tell them to. It's bad when units make decisions that you *don't* tell them to. Having both options is the best solution, but barring that, having move-rallies only is superior to attack-rallies only, because it creates less situations where your units are doing things that you don't want them to.
If you're worried about units getting intercepted on the way to an enemy base, you shouldn't be rallying them there anyway. It's going to be much better to send reinforcements as a group than to send them 1-by-1, because going 1-by-1, they're much easier to pick off.
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Hm Don't care about it either way ^^.
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Of course people will like the attack move PR more, just one less thing they have to think about when they are re-rallying their units. No more units getting picked off while reinforcing, what's not to love. Personally I really couldn't care less, either way I always check my units.
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Move is better, simply because it's more predictable. If you don't do anything, you KNOW what the unit is going to do. If you want to attack, you can give an attack command.
When it was the other way, what the unit would do would depend on if there happened to be other units around. If your units spawned when your opponent was in your base, your units would just suicide before you could give them a gtfo move command.
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On July 09 2010 02:04 AraqirG wrote:
OK, seriously people,
READ THE DAMN THREAD.
You can already do either attack move rally or move rally. As several people mentioned, a+click sets the rally as an attack move.
You can even combine rally points.
1. Select building
2. Hold Shift.
3. a+ right click your natural choke
4. Right click to your main army
5. Let go of shift
Your units will now leave the production building, ATTACK MOVE to your natural, then MOVE to meet up with your main army.
This is false - I've just tested this an there is no way to Attack-Move your rally point, including following these exact steps. (I tested on a hatchery btw)
*sadness
Last night I nydus canal'd someone with mass zerglings, and I had to keep manually grabbing the lings that popped out 1-by-1 and a-moving them, because of this move-rally change.
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This really threw me off because if you rally a medivac to a unit it loads it up. Also if you rally units a medivac they load up into the medivac. This confused the crap outta me until I figured it out. I guess once I figure out the quirks of this change and adapt my rally pts I'll be ok.
I always check my units but its annoying when the opponent is in your base and one misplaced rally gets your units chopped up before they do anything.
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I wasn't able to play with this change yet, but the only thing that is really affected for me is when I get rushed and really need to get my marines to my worker line. With attack rally it's really retarded, I can't see any way why people would want it to be like that...
But obviously the poll shows how many people like attack rally. Weird.
But it's no big thing which will affect my gameplay at all I think as you should be aware of all your stuff wandering around anway. The terran macro thing with the reactor and tech lab is far more annoying to get used to and consumes a lot of hotkeys for some sort of rax-factory-starport play.
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I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
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On July 09 2010 23:34 Piy wrote:
I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
Same.
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I can't believe the SC2 way is winning the poll; I guess TL has been invaded with people who have never played BW.
The OP completely ignores all the positive things about move command over attack command.
With attack command if you're doing an attack and you rally zealots/hellions or something to the battle at your opponents base. If your opponent makes a pylon, or just runs a worker around, on the route from your buildings to where they are going... then the units stupidly move to engage rather than going where they were told.
When there are enemy units in your base; instead of your units spawning out of your production buildings and running to safety... they immediately attack and die individually.
Considering that you can still issue an attack command if you wish; the new system is surely better, well done Blizz.
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if it makes the game easier, then hell yes! do anything necessary! god forbid you have to baby sit your units ever- sc2 players have more pressing things to think about... like macro or micro ohh wait...
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On July 09 2010 23:56 Klive5ive wrote:
Considering that you can still issue an attack command if you wish; the new system is surely better, well done Blizz.
you can issue an attack-move rally command, or just standard attack-move (not rally)?
theres no reason not to give players both options. this thread has shown that there are situations where both types of rally's are useful and needed
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On July 08 2010 10:10 freshiie22 wrote:
BW was a great game but lacked allot of good game play mechanics such as if you have your eye off your spawning units for a second they would die. I know this probably frustrated allot of people as it did to me. Allot of people are forgetting that Starcraft 2 is not BW and therefore will have different game play and mechanics.
I lol'ed when I read this. What mechanics are you talking about? setting your rally point and forget about it? No wonder why we never had an international winner of WCG in SC1 :D
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I prefer move because people can do cheese stuff like sent a hellion to intercept your rally during a push and it can really screw you up.
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On July 10 2010 00:00 Misrah wrote:
if it makes the game easier, then hell yes! do anything necessary! god forbid you have to baby sit your units ever- sc2 players have more pressing things to think about... like macro or micro ohh wait...
This is not about easier or harder mechanics, it's about units doing what you told them to do. It's about control.
One another problem beside bringing supplies troop to a battle is when you're defending your expo as Zerg. You put your rally point in your main base to stack troops and the units getting out your expand just suicide. You could stop it waiting for them to pop and give them a 3rd order:
-(Me) Rally point
-(Computer) attack
-(Me) go your f**cking rally point
It's just stupid.
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On July 10 2010 00:10 HubertFelix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 00:00 Misrah wrote:
if it makes the game easier, then hell yes! do anything necessary! god forbid you have to baby sit your units ever- sc2 players have more pressing things to think about... like macro or micro ohh wait... This is not about easier or harder mechanics, it's about units doing what you told them to do. It's about control.
yes, and the most control is where the game would provide you the ability to choose Rally-Move and Rally-Attack-Move. I think everyone would be happy to have both options available in-game.
I've posted a suggestion thread on the official forums regarding this, here:
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25968747183&postId=259664203839&sid=5000#0
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This thread makes me sick. i want to play a game that i don't need to play- blizz come up with a macro for everything so i can be a better strategist. If people are so worried about having to think about a few things, and or actually have mechanics to play the game- chess would be a great option, i mean you don't need any mechanics for that game, or macro- but micro you need that.
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Rally points have a very different role in SC2 because of how easy it is to reset them. So one can easily have their rally at their army at all times. In BW you have to rally up near your base and then bring the new troops in manually. I'm not trying to say one is better than the other, but I think this is why some players see a-move rally as such an improvement. If you are rallying your troops right into battle this is a nice feature.
Personally, I'd go for move-rally any day for when your production buildings are being camped as has been said before. Also, having to rally to your nat and then moving the troops up adds to the game in my opinion.
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On July 10 2010 00:19 Misrah wrote:
This thread makes me sick. i want to play a game that i don't need to play- blizz come up with a macro for everything so i can be a better strategist. If people are so worried about having to think about a few things, and or actually have mechanics to play the game- chess would be a great option, i mean you don't need any mechanics for that game, or macro- but micro you need that.
this is about improving the mechanics to make the final release more fun, theres nothing wrong with that. we love the game, and that's why we want to have the mechanics portion perfected to our liking.
metaphorically, it's almost as if blizzard invented automatic transmission. then forced everyone to switch back to manual transmission. Granted, alot of people love manual, but alot of people love automatic as well. Give the car owner the option to choose.
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On July 10 2010 00:26 mijones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 00:19 Misrah wrote:
This thread makes me sick. i want to play a game that i don't need to play- blizz come up with a macro for everything so i can be a better strategist. If people are so worried about having to think about a few things, and or actually have mechanics to play the game- chess would be a great option, i mean you don't need any mechanics for that game, or macro- but micro you need that. this is about improving the mechanics to make the final release more fun, theres nothing wrong with that. we love the game, and that's why we want to have the mechanics portion perfected to our liking. metaphorically, it's almost as if blizzard invented automatic transmission. then forced everyone to switch back to manual transmission. Granted, alot of people love manual, but alot of people love automatic as well. Give the car owner the option to choose.
LOL improving mechanics? what mechanics? the game is going to be playing its self soon. 1a2a3a is now just reduced to click rally points, use mbs to build army- which automatically walks to desired location and attacks. what a joke.
If your idea of fun is just sitting around and playing a game a monkey could play then fine, but for me and thousands of other players, i actually want to move my fingers once and awhile.
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On July 09 2010 23:34 Piy wrote:
I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
Same.
i really cant understand posts like these :/
Harder to play does not mean better. Why would it?
Pour some honey on your mousepad, stick razorblades on your mouse, and press "down, right, A" in sequence when you want to attack move, and the game just got a lot harder and more painful, but definitly ot better or more fun.
A model like chess, is quite a lot more interesting in my opinion. Chess is incredibly easy to play. There really isnt much to it, you just move a few pieces around on a board, and dont even need to do it fast.
The hard part is not managing to actually play the game in chess, the hard part is making the right choices at the right time, having correct strategy, and outsmarting your opponent, that is very very hard. Even though every noob can play chess, to beat someone really good depands a lot of skill, practice, and is very hard, to the point of sometimes being near impossible.
hard to win + fun makes a good game, hard to play just makes impossible for new players to learn, without adding anything to it.
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Its probably worth mentioning that this update essentially broke quite a few custom games as well, as with war games now the units just run past each other now.
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On July 10 2010 00:36 morimacil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 23:34 Piy wrote:
I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
Same.
i really cant understand posts like these :/ Harder to play does not mean better. Why would it? Pour some honey on your mousepad, stick razorblades on your mouse, and press "down, right, A" in sequence when you want to attack move, and the game just got a lot harder and more painful, but definitly ot better or more fun. A model like chess, is quite a lot more interesting in my opinion. Chess is incredibly easy to play. There really isnt much to it, you just move a few pieces around on a board, and dont even need to do it fast. The hard part is not managing to actually play the game in chess, the hard part is making the right choices at the right time, having correct strategy, and outsmarting your opponent, that is very very hard. Even though every noob can play chess, to beat someone really good depands a lot of skill, practice, and is very hard, to the point of sometimes being near impossible. hard to win + fun makes a good game, hard to play just makes impossible for new players to learn, without adding anything to it.
Just going out on a limb here- but you strike me as a new player, and even more you strike me as someone who does not play BW. BW is really really easy to play, but really really hard to play well. tha tis a known fact. Chess is the same way- very easy to play the game, but very hard to master.
In the end there is a learning curve. Someone that plays the game with more speed and dexterity should be rewarded. However in sc2 becuase all of the mechanics to play the game are so easy, the skill ceiling is so easy to achieve- that this game is not going to be fun, and is not going to last.
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I agree with morimacil point of view, in addition I don't see that this change will have a significant effect on my gameplay.
Yes the attack move command was much more comfortable but I think its nothing rthat will matter in the middle or long run of SC II
This thread has unfortunatly become somewhat of a flameware, because some people think they need to show their *skillz* and *diz* the others by telling them they have no skill when they say they dont quite agree with the change. I hope this discussions will focus more on the game pros and cons.
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On July 10 2010 00:36 morimacil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2010 23:34 Piy wrote:
I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
Same.
i really cant understand posts like these :/ Harder to play does not mean better. Why would it? Pour some honey on your mousepad, stick razorblades on your mouse, and press "down, right, A" in sequence when you want to attack move, and the game just got a lot harder and more painful, but definitly ot better or more fun. A model like chess, is quite a lot more interesting in my opinion. Chess is incredibly easy to play. There really isnt much to it, you just move a few pieces around on a board, and dont even need to do it fast. The hard part is not managing to actually play the game in chess, the hard part is making the right choices at the right time, having correct strategy, and outsmarting your opponent, that is very very hard. Even though every noob can play chess, to beat someone really good depands a lot of skill, practice, and is very hard, to the point of sometimes being near impossible. hard to win + fun makes a good game, hard to play just makes impossible for new players to learn, without adding anything to it.
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, exactly! this is exactly right.
The less focus placed on mechanical chores means more energy is freed up to focus on the most important aspect of RTS games - actual strategy.
Every time blizzard makes an improvement to the mechanics to free up useless APM, there are always BW players that have to complain and say it will make the game too easy etc. But in the first phase of beta, I didn't even see pros saying that there wasn't enough actions to do. They didn't complain about MBS or automine anymore. It freed up time to focus more on their scouting, or the new macro mechanics, which made for more interesting strategic games.
BW players that complain about every mechanical enhancement reminds me of old people complaining about technology, saying that back in the day they drove to town in horse & buggy, and refuse to want to use the latest & greatest.
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On July 10 2010 00:48 mijones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 00:36 morimacil wrote:On July 09 2010 23:34 Piy wrote:
I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
Same.
i really cant understand posts like these :/ Harder to play does not mean better. Why would it? Pour some honey on your mousepad, stick razorblades on your mouse, and press "down, right, A" in sequence when you want to attack move, and the game just got a lot harder and more painful, but definitly ot better or more fun. A model like chess, is quite a lot more interesting in my opinion. Chess is incredibly easy to play. There really isnt much to it, you just move a few pieces around on a board, and dont even need to do it fast. The hard part is not managing to actually play the game in chess, the hard part is making the right choices at the right time, having correct strategy, and outsmarting your opponent, that is very very hard. Even though every noob can play chess, to beat someone really good depands a lot of skill, practice, and is very hard, to the point of sometimes being near impossible. hard to win + fun makes a good game, hard to play just makes impossible for new players to learn, without adding anything to it. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, exactly! this is exactly right. The less focus placed on mechanical chores means more energy is freed up to focus on the most important aspect of RTS games - actual strategy. Every time blizzard makes an improvement to the mechanics to free up useless APM, there are always BW players that have to complain and say it will make the game too easy etc. But in the first phase of beta, I didn't even see pros saying that there wasn't enough actions to do. They didn't complain about MBS or automine anymore. It freed up time to focus more on their scouting, or the new macro mechanics, which made for more interesting strategic games. BW players that complain about every mechanical enhancement reminds me of old people complaining about technology, saying that back in the day they drove to town in horse & buggy, and refuse to want to use the latest & greatest.
I highlighted the part where you prove to me your the stereotypical SC2 player. If you don't want mechanics go play chess. Or if you want to play a game that is so easy and everyone can feel good about themselves, go play Halo3.
For a second i thought that i could actually have a conversation with you about this. But now that you are the casual, just returned to the SC scene because of SC2 player- and will probably leave this community once the next new games comes around, i really don't feel that by arguing with you I could ever change your opinion. In your eyes less is more, and blizz and activision are prophets from god bestowing an amazing game upon you, a game that you will no doubt turn pro in.
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I do understand the fact that people who spent hours upon hours training their multitasking skills and trying to get higher APM hate to see that "skill" go to waste.
but if I have the choice, I prefer a strategy game, where what strategy you do actually matters. I would prefer it much more to a mechanical game, where a win/loss is based more on how much multitasking you can do, how fast you can do it, and little on what your actual decisions are.
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On July 10 2010 00:55 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 00:48 mijones wrote:On July 10 2010 00:36 morimacil wrote:On July 09 2010 23:34 Piy wrote:
I like anything that makes the game harder, and move cmd rp makes the game harder. So I like that better.
Same.
i really cant understand posts like these :/ Harder to play does not mean better. Why would it? Pour some honey on your mousepad, stick razorblades on your mouse, and press "down, right, A" in sequence when you want to attack move, and the game just got a lot harder and more painful, but definitly ot better or more fun. A model like chess, is quite a lot more interesting in my opinion. Chess is incredibly easy to play. There really isnt much to it, you just move a few pieces around on a board, and dont even need to do it fast. The hard part is not managing to actually play the game in chess, the hard part is making the right choices at the right time, having correct strategy, and outsmarting your opponent, that is very very hard. Even though every noob can play chess, to beat someone really good depands a lot of skill, practice, and is very hard, to the point of sometimes being near impossible. hard to win + fun makes a good game, hard to play just makes impossible for new players to learn, without adding anything to it. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, exactly! this is exactly right. The less focus placed on mechanical chores means more energy is freed up to focus on the most important aspect of RTS games - actual strategy. Every time blizzard makes an improvement to the mechanics to free up useless APM, there are always BW players that have to complain and say it will make the game too easy etc. But in the first phase of beta, I didn't even see pros saying that there wasn't enough actions to do. They didn't complain about MBS or automine anymore. It freed up time to focus more on their scouting, or the new macro mechanics, which made for more interesting strategic games. BW players that complain about every mechanical enhancement reminds me of old people complaining about technology, saying that back in the day they drove to town in horse & buggy, and refuse to want to use the latest & greatest. I highlighted the part where you prove to me your the stereotypical SC2 player. If you don't want mechanics go play chess. Or if you want to play a game that is so easy and everyone can feel good about themselves, go play Halo3. For a second i thought that i could actually have a conversation with you about this. But now that you are the casual, just returned to the SC scene because of SC2 player- and will probably leave this community once the next new games comes around, i really don't feel that by arguing with you I could ever change your opinion. In your eyes less is more, and blizz and activision are prophets from god bestowing an amazing game upon you, a game that you will no doubt turn pro in.
Why are you being so disrespectful? Now I'm being forced to spend time defending myself rather than contributing to the actual topic at hand. Apologies to readers coming to this thread looking for useful information on the topic.
I didn't say that I don't want mechanics, I said that I don't want mechanical chores - meaning mechanics that do not provide value. The game has plenty of mechanics for me to work on that provide value - like scouting, micro-ing units, making efficient use of my macro; they all add up to make for a successful game outcome. Attack-Move Rally mechanic also gives me (not everyone, but at least me, and the majority of voters on the Poll) value.
StarCraft is the only game I ever cared to commit to, ever since the game came out. I'm not a casual player with regards to StarCraft. No other game has captivated me over the years like StarCraft. I couldn't care less for Halo, although I do admit that Chess has a place in my history, but only before StarCraft came along. StarCraft is the evolution of Chess in my opinion, it gives the player more options, style, and self expression. When StarCraft came out over 12 years ago, Chess was dead to me.
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On July 10 2010 01:11 morimacil wrote:
I do understand the fact that people who spent hours upon hours training their multitasking skills and trying to get higher APM hate to see that "skill" go to waste.
but if I have the choice, I prefer a strategy game, where what strategy you do actually matters. I would prefer it much more to a mechanical game, where a win/loss is based more on how much multitasking you can do, how fast you can do it, and little on what your actual decisions are.
A RTS it not only about "strategy" it is about strategy and execution.
Otherwise your perfect game would just include a script that you write beforehand(your strategy), and you watch some AI-player executing it. Does that sound fun? I don't think so.
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i want atack move back....this is so stupid to see you rallyed units die while they are going to their rally points...i lost a tremendous amount of unit because of that in WC3, i was so glad it was attack move RP in sc2 and now they removed it for no reason what so ever...really weird move by blizzard again.
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I highlighted the part where you prove to me your the stereotypical SC2 player. If you don't want mechanics go play chess. Or if you want to play a game that is so easy and everyone can feel good about themselves, go play Halo3.
For a second i thought that i could actually have a conversation with you about this. But now that you are the casual, just returned to the SC scene because of SC2 player- and will probably leave this community once the next new games comes around, i really don't feel that by arguing with you I could ever change your opinion. In your eyes less is more, and blizz and activision are prophets from god bestowing an amazing game upon you, a game that you will no doubt turn pro in.
I highlighted the part that makes you sound like a typical old, elitist person who can't adapt to a new technology that removes a lot of the "annoying" necessities with the previous technology. No one is stopping you from playing BW and not having to mingle with SC2 players.
Blizz decided to take the twitch out of strategy gaming, which is a move I totally agree with. Yes, the learning curve for a basic understanding of game play is much, much lower, but in the end it has the potential to be more fun to more people. "Less is more" is a beautiful thing in all aspects of life, and applying it to a game is not a bad thing. It's not like top level players have anything to fear, unless the only skill they have is being to click very quickly.
My gf never touched a strategy or FPS game in her life (she hates the concept of twitch-gaming), her entire experience was with Super Mario Galaxy & some other "casual" Wii games. I showed her SC2 in P1 and now she's hooked and has managed to learn all the basic skills (macro/micro), honestly it was an impressive transition seeing how SC2 actually manages to appeal to casual gamers, yet offers so many layers that it's nearly impossible for a non-pro to hit a skill ceiling, sort of like chess.
There are still mechanics, and I sure as hell don't feel good when losing to a good player even with the shitty ladder system which makes me feel good when just looking at the rankings.
I was a young SC player in the day, too immature to play ladder matches by a long shot but enjoyed UMS maps for a few years, and yes SC2 is "bringing me back to scene". But you know what? That's not a bad thing, and if you think it is, go back to playing on the BW ladder and don't just assume you can't have a conversation with someone because you're on an APM high-horse.
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On July 10 2010 01:19 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 01:11 morimacil wrote:
I do understand the fact that people who spent hours upon hours training their multitasking skills and trying to get higher APM hate to see that "skill" go to waste.
but if I have the choice, I prefer a strategy game, where what strategy you do actually matters. I would prefer it much more to a mechanical game, where a win/loss is based more on how much multitasking you can do, how fast you can do it, and little on what your actual decisions are. A RTS it not only about "strategy" it is about strategy and execution. Otherwise your perfect game would just include a script that you write beforehand(your strategy), and you watch some AI-player executing it. Does that sound fun? I don't think so.
execution IMO is about proper timing and placement, not about how many things you can achieve that don't add value to your strategy.
Having to individually select buildings instead of selecting them all at once does not add value to a strategy, it only makes it more complicated. This might not be a great analogy, but look at it this way: Would chess be any better if you had to physically alter a piece each time you wanted to move?
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Calgary25980 Posts
Should just be a toggle.
Save that, it should be move.
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A RTS it not only about "strategy" it is about strategy and execution.
Otherwise your perfect game would just include a script that you write beforehand(your strategy), and you watch some AI-player executing it. Does that sound fun? I don't think so.
True, some part of execution is good. But stopping your units from suiciding themselves doesnt sound like "executing a strategy".
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I for one am very disappointed in Blizzard's recent decision to change this mechanic of the game back to Attack-Move. I will admit, at first I longed for it, because I was used to it from Broodwar. But eventually I came to realize that the new way (rally-attack-move) is much better suited to SCII than it would have been to SC1.
SC2 is a much faster, more franticly paced game. This is what the designers were aiming for, and they achieved it with great success and good game design that is extremely fun to play. However, because of this fast-paced frantic playstyle, rally-attack-move is a lot more fitting. This is most easily expressed from a Zerg point of view, but it applies to all races. When the enemy beats you in that first battle in the middle of the map and rolls into your base while you have 20 roaches cued up to put up a second fight, you can rally them to where they are needed and save precious seconds to save your base.
With Rally-move you have those 20roaches cued up from 3 different hatcheries from 3 different points on the map, and u rally them to your main. Now you have to wait for them to hatch, then grab each group individually (one group from each hatchery), and re-apply the attack move command while frantically trying to defend your base. Is it micro that makes the good players stand out from the crowd? Perhaps, but IMHO I think it is annoying micro that detracts from the overall style and pace of play.
I'm not sure I expressed what I was thinking as clearly as I wanted to, but it shall suffice. What do you guys think?
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United States47024 Posts
On July 10 2010 01:43 morimacil wrote:
True, some part of execution is good. But stopping your units from suiciding themselves doesnt sound like "executing a strategy".
Your units suicide themselves far more often if it's an attack-rally than a move-rally.
If you've got zealots coming 1-by-1 out of gateways, and they attack into a bunch of lings along the way, they're going to get killed. Don't pretend that with an attack-move command, single zealots rallied to an opponent's natural are going to be able to kill 12 zerglings sent to stop them. At least if you give them a move-rally, they might reach your other troops in time for you to do something about it.
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On July 10 2010 09:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 01:43 morimacil wrote:
True, some part of execution is good. But stopping your units from suiciding themselves doesnt sound like "executing a strategy". Your units suicide themselves far more often if it's an attack-rally than a move-rally. If you've got zealots coming 1-by-1 out of gateways, and they attack into a bunch of lings along the way, they're going to get killed. Don't pretend that with an attack-move command, single zealots rallied to an opponent's natural are going to be able to kill 12 zerglings sent to stop them. At least if you give them a move-rally, they might reach your other troops in time for you to do something about it.
but isnt that what most of you want, having more things to look at and do, that adds micro to the game. saving a suuiciding unit is just as APM intensive as gathering units at ramp or w,e and sending them to attack if not even more APM intensive.
Not saying you said that you want more things to do, but thats what people where complaining about earlier (the game beinmg to easy).
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On July 10 2010 00:15 mijones wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 00:10 HubertFelix wrote:On July 10 2010 00:00 Misrah wrote:
if it makes the game easier, then hell yes! do anything necessary! god forbid you have to baby sit your units ever- sc2 players have more pressing things to think about... like macro or micro ohh wait... This is not about easier or harder mechanics, it's about units doing what you told them to do. It's about control. yes, and the most control is where the game would provide you the ability to choose Rally-Move and Rally-Attack-Move. I think everyone would be happy to have both options available in-game. I've posted a suggestion thread on the official forums regarding this, here: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25968747183&postId=259664203839&sid=5000#0
ohh yea thanks for posting this up on the Official forums
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Ok people who bash SC2 say that stuff like this is what made BW more 'skillful'. So to spite them I say leave it, I mean it does require a little bit more APM so your units don't just kill themselves when they spawn. So i say leave it to benefit the "skillfull" factor.
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On July 10 2010 12:06 MadVillain wrote:
Ok people who bash SC2 say that stuff like this is what made BW more 'skillful'. So to spite them I say leave it, I mean it does require a little bit more APM so your units don't just kill themselves when they spawn. So i say leave it to benefit the "skillfull" factor.
thats just them there is other players too, people just gota get use to moving on and adapting to change, and where not even asking for change its more of an option. if players wanna be gosu then they dont have to use the feature. simple
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A TOGGLE FOR IT is an absolutely fantastic idea. you could keep it move most of the time, and when your base is under attack toggle it, and bam, it's attack move. I think that's a very very good idea.
On July 09 2010 03:09 Chriamon wrote:
This change is retarded. I just lost a game because I nydused and set the rally to his worker line, and all my units suicided
Do they really expect me to individually select every unit as it comes out and tell it to attack? or do I have to wait until my entire army comes out of the nydus and then attack...
They really didn't think this through, they just changed it on a whim...
wow, lol. so much for nydus being zerg version of the nuke, eh...
On July 10 2010 00:31 Misrah wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2010 00:26 mijones wrote:On July 10 2010 00:19 Misrah wrote:
This thread makes me sick. i want to play a game that i don't need to play- blizz come up with a macro for everything so i can be a better strategist. If people are so worried about having to think about a few things, and or actually have mechanics to play the game- chess would be a great option, i mean you don't need any mechanics for that game, or macro- but micro you need that. this is about improving the mechanics to make the final release more fun, theres nothing wrong with that. we love the game, and that's why we want to have the mechanics portion perfected to our liking. metaphorically, it's almost as if blizzard invented automatic transmission. then forced everyone to switch back to manual transmission. Granted, alot of people love manual, but alot of people love automatic as well. Give the car owner the option to choose. LOL improving mechanics? what mechanics? the game is going to be playing its self soon. 1a2a3a is now just reduced to click rally points, use mbs to build army- which automatically walks to desired location and attacks. what a joke. If your idea of fun is just sitting around and playing a game a monkey could play then fine, but for me and thousands of other players, i actually want to move my fingers once and awhile.
oh please...consider all the crazy new splash in sc2...hunter seekers, psionic storms and banelings... rally every army unit to enemy base and just letting the units attack move only works if the opponent is too weak in skill to defend against a player attacking with 0 apm in micro. macro with 0 apm micro is overrated by you.
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Toggle is best, if not that just go back to attack move. Attack move has far fewer problems. For instance say you are zerg fe and your main is under attack. Now you can no longer rally both hatches to your base because if you do your reincforments will get killed trying to walk through their army. It's dumb that you can't concentrate on microing your forces in your main because you have to watch the other hatch and attack move with the units coming out of it.
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This is a RTS. I know it has been marketed and spruced up for the little public, but all you noobs need to realize this isn't supposed to be an automated game. You are supposed to control your army. P.S. Stop crying noobs. Ty.
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also, it's too hard to set rally points as zerg if it's not attack move. if you have hatcheries everywhere expanding all over the map...unless you have a nydus for every base you can't safely gather your forces.
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Btw, im pretty sure any argument for taking out the attack move rally could also be used as an argument for taking out the attack move command altogether, prove me wrong.
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sounds like most of the people advocating for attack move rp are noobs that haven't played an RTS competitively before or just bad. i bet most of them made their TL account sometime early-mid 2010 and are probably below diamond or have less than 2:1 ratio in ladder
btw the diff between attack move command and attack-move rp is the rp is just an automated action where you can set it once and never look at your units again, whereas the a-move is actually actively telling your units to do something. its important to have an rts game where you actually have to control your own units
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Eh.... It's good in some situations, but I liked the old Attack move RP better. I think you should be able to hold CTRL while setting a rally point to allow a person to choose whether or not it's an attack move RP.
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I just dont understand why blizzard changed something that wasnt broken NO1 complained about this and they just come out of nowhere with this retarded patch iv lost 3 games so far because saviour units spawn and just die ( this is a big probleme for zerg) because everything is rallyed, protoss isnt effected to much because of the warp in and im not to sure about terran but i really want them to changed it back
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I'm sorry for all of you that relied on the old system of rallying being attack move, but what you need to realize is that Blizzard is going to be changing the game often. The game is still in beta, and it is possible that rallying will be switched back to attack move, but until that time it is probably best that all of you get used to the new way that it works. Complaining about something isn't going to help you improve, and if you find a way to deal with how it works it won't bother you.
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I liked attack more better then regular move - but this could be an option in game.
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Here's the standard TL -
Feature that was bascially automated attacking so you didn't have to manage the spawning units in BW - Sweet!
Feature in SC2 that means you actually have to manage your spawning units rally points so they don't suicide: FUCKING CASUAL GAME, GIVE ME BACK MY AUTO ATTACK MOVE RALLYS!
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Panzer Dragoon says it all.
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I play zerg so... On maps where i've got hatcheries all over the place it's inconvenient to have move-only rallies in case some army cuts between them.
But it's really just a learning thing. That happened to me on desert oasis once, and i lost a lot of shit. I won't let that happen again. If I don't have vision of everywhere between my hatches with tumors i'll probably just rally next to the hatch.
Not really a big deal. It was kind of annoying before having a unit spawn and attack immediately when he needed to get the f' out of there.
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So, when you are being rushed earlygame, what are you doing? You're building units, workers, continuing your build, and defending. Are you guys all really saying that you don't have the apm to make a box around those two zealots that popped up and a move?
Later on in the game, shouldn't you know where your opponents army is? If your opponent's army is right outside your base, you should know this, not have your units find out on the way.
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I did prefer attack move, but forcing a move rally makes sure the players are paying attention rather than senselessly putting rally straight to the enemy's base and forgetting about it
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While newbs vs. geezers is fun to spectate, I'd far prefer having a choice (either a toggle in the options menu or a UI distinction) to having it one way or another.
Both styles create scenarios that reward players for having higher APM and awareness, as well as production cycle mechanics that can be abused by your opponent. I don't see one as obviously superior to the other, but being forced to use one when both have been presented in the engine seems odd.
Edited for grammar.
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The unit-producing structure should simply have a command card with attack and move as its options, and use these options to set the rally point as one or the other depending on preference, with default being move (if you right-click as opposed to a-click)
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In most cases attack move would be best. In some cases, like as a zerg player defending a bunker rush, move is necessary. Having options for both would be best, but if there is only one move is the best.
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This makes a really huge difference as a defending zerg rallying reinforcements. As the battle moves back and forth I've often found waypointed units walking past their comrades and dieing without even attacking. This is especially true for zerglings which are so fast on creep but are immensely fragile. Personally I vastly prefer attack move way points.
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Personally I don't really care for the attack move rally, but I think it helps more players in a greater way than it hurts others.
I tend to either rally to a unit or keep the units in my base, so attack move rally never really did anything for me.
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im amazed at the amount of people who prefer attack move, i sure love how when im getting pushed i cant reinforce because my units spawn, try to attack, then die!
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On July 08 2010 10:22 Crisium wrote:
Blizzard still doesn't get it. Don't worry, I'll let you all in on how Rally Point should be.
Have a toggle option for Rally-Move and Rally-Attack Move. Holy crap, how was the solution so simple? The default should be Rally-Move, but Attack Move undoubtedly has its uses as well.
It could be like toggling Autocast on and off - just right click on the Rally Point symbol to switch between Move and Attack move.
Why the hell not?
That does sound like a good solution.
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Give the player the option of both styles? Like the default right click would be normal move RP, and you gotta press a different button for attack-move RP.
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Do you know how ****ing tedious Nydus Worms are without attack-rally?
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When the game will become older with bigger maps etc.. You won't be able to play with auto attack rally points.
With different fronts on the map, some unit would keep suiciding themselves while rallied.
Don't just think about your mech/4gate+robo attack.
Blizzard could just add another unit order for this attack rally point like some people said.
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Things like Nydus Worms should have Attack Move. But everything else should stay as Move. Otherwise it just makes it too easy out-macro an enemy and it reduces micro by a lot.
Intercepting units is one good way to out-micro an enemy but if these units actually attack back it becomes less effective.
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Move rally point is way better.
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I don't understand this argument. Due to the unlimited unit and building selection, rally should always be on move. That way, they don't get caught up on anything. If you want to rally to your army, thats okay, just remember to reselect your army every once in a while. And if you want to retreat, just change rallys again.
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I understand both side sof the argument... but they are both situational. I think the move command makes sense and it will just force me to modify my pl a little bit. I don't think it's as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. If anything it forces you to have more control over you units. Which is a good thing, right?
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On July 08 2010 10:10 freshiie22 wrote:Edit: (on my itouch 4 give grammer) ummm so we know beta is back, and I actually got to see how horrible this whole Move-RP is. eg.. was in game, and about 3-4 void rays were in my base. My game changing thors poped out, now i was all like YES. Then to my surprise i watched my idiot thors walk of to the rally point taking fully charged rays to their backs. Now if it could of just attacked before the VRays were in range i cuda killed off a few. Now a reasonable fix for this like some one posted earlier, was make the option were the production building can toogle spawning units between A-Move and Move to RP, just like how you cant set SCV's to auto repair by right clicking repair. This way everyones happy Thought blehh why not throw in a poll Poll: Did you prefer Attack Move RP, Or will you like the Move RP better?Attack Move RP (818) 64% Move RP (454) 36% 1272 total votes Your vote: Did you prefer Attack Move RP, Or will you like the Move RP better? (Vote): Attack Move RP
(Vote): Move RP
I think its way to easy with attackmove on rallypoint, noobish even.. in a battle? just rally to the location and the computer micros for u..not cool imo. And you cant say it shouldnt be move because it makes no sense etc.. its blizzards game and they want to make competetive games that requires skill..
Also, its not like they changed the rallysystem to work like it does now because its that way in BW, this is a beta and they ofcourse try and figure mechanics out during a beta, it would be a totally different thing if they changed it after the game had been out 2 years... game isnt even out yet.
Also you could keep your head up and issue attackcommands/change the rallypoint of your factories before the thors pop out.
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I think for a zerg player that move RP is better. Whenever you start making more units to reinforce your army just shift+1 them into your army when they are still eggs.
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how do you clear a rally point? like if you want them to just spawn right on the building but you already have a rally point set? do you just have to set it right by the building or can you simply clear the rally points? (asking as terran because when i'm being attacked now if i'm barely holding on my units are getting killed when they rally when the enemy is in my base... and i just want them to instantly fight when they spawn but they rally and going through EACH building and setting it's rally is really really time consuming
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I liked the change to move-rally. However, I can see how a lot of people don't like trading off convenience for control, especially since the lack of convenience might cause them to lose more games in the end.
My problem is that in some cases Nydus Worms hardly function anymore with this change, so for both my sake and those other players' sake I think there should be a toggle. .
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Move rally makes sure that your spawned units all end up in the same place, which is very important if you're doing other stuff.
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I was really excited when it was Attack Move. I always hated having to click every production building individually to right click it. I could rally my units to where I needed things to die. Clearing the rallies is just another obstacle when in a clutch fight in your main. Rally move is annoying.
An option in the menu or on the UI would be wonderful. I want my attack-move rallies back.
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I want to be able to choose between attack move and move rally points.
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EPT
