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0. Summary - right now Frenzy has no effect on both Broodling Strike and Broodling Claws
(as of patch 15, version 0.17.0.15623)
Poll: How should Frenzy affect Brood Lords?Affect both Broodling Strike and Broodling Claws (7) 54% Affect Broodling Strike, but not Broodling Claws (6) 46% 13 total votes Your vote: How should Frenzy affect Brood Lords? (Vote): Affect both Broodling Strike and Broodling Claws
(Vote): Affect Broodling Strike, but not Broodling Claws
Custom test map: http://www.multiupload.com/PAHGMDK288
![[image loading]](http://i49.tinypic.com/258ow35.png)
1. Intro - How Does Brood Lord work? (skip if you know)
Brood Lord shoots broodlings - initially 2, and then 1 at a time, which attack as temporary melee units (Broodling Claws attack). This part we all know, but some people may not yet know that at each broodling spawn the BL deals 1-time damage as if the broodling was bomb. This damage is the amount shown as Brood Lord's main damage (minus armor, of course), and the attack is called Broodling Strike. This damage is counted as flying damage, while the further melee attacks of each broodling are counted as their own melee damage. Thus both flyer attack upgrades and ground melee upgrades affect the damage dealt by Brood Lords.
Example for the flyer attack: if it was upgraded +3 from the Spire, then it goes 20->26, which in practice means (minus 1 armor vs buildings) = 25 damage per broodling spawn/first hit. Since the Brood Lord starts with 2 broodlings, if it's +3 upgraded, it deals quick 25->50 damage at it's first attack vs some building - which is easy to test and verify.
2. Problem - How Frenzied Brood Lord should work & does work?
If you frenzy Brood Lord, its main flyer damage gets 25% increase. That means a +2 upgraded Brood Lord, which normally has 24 damage, gets 30 with frenzy. So, at each new broodling spawn/hit, it should deal 29 damage vs buildings directly. Or, at the very beginning, the first 2 broodlings should instantly deal 58 damage, instead of 46 (without frenzy). Well, that doesn't happen, sadly. It should, but it doesn't.
The easiest to test is +3 upgrades, at slower speed, attack building and watch the first hit, with and without frenzy - in both cases it's just 50, followed by the melee attacks. The Frenzy is shown in the Brood Lord stat screen, but for some reason (bug) is not applied for real, as it should be.
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Map recommended for further testing:
http://www.sc2mapster.com/maps/unit-tester/
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Thanks for checking this out. All the more reason to just replace frenzy imo lol. I didn't know that broodlings benefited from upgrades. You could go melee upgrades and transition to BL late game. Thats interesting.
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More evidence that frenzy is a spell designed only to target ultralisks and that it should therefore simply be given to ultralisks as an ability (like zealot charge but without requiring an upgrade) instead of it being a spell on the infestor.
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United States12244 Posts
Minus 1? What are you attacking? Most buildings have 1 armor and many units start with 1 armor as well. Also, I wouldn't say "some people may not know" about the initial 20+ damage strike because that's what's documented in the tooltip.
From your account, it certainly seems bugged. It should be BL_flyer_damage * Frenzy - armor. Might need a bit more research (for example, the timing of the spell, whether the initial shots ignore Frenzy but subsequent ones obey, attacking different types of targets, and so forth), but it seems to point to a bug for now. Good find.
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I thought his point was the fact that the frenzy on the brood lord does not transfer to extra damage on the broodlings.
no he spesifically says that it is the broodlords initial broodling torpedo attack that does not benefit from frenzy.
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On June 16 2010 06:54 hellokitty[hk] wrote:
Thats called armor. Correct, thank you.
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Post this in bug report forums? It kinda makes sense due to every broodling being its own unit.
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On June 16 2010 07:04 SnakeChomp wrote:
More evidence that frenzy is a spell designed only to target ultralisks and that it should therefore simply be given to ultralisks as an ability (like zealot charge but without requiring an upgrade) instead of it being a spell on the infestor.
Would be OP and too easy to use. It would in that case AT LEAST require an upgrade.
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On June 16 2010 07:22 gillon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 07:04 SnakeChomp wrote:
More evidence that frenzy is a spell designed only to target ultralisks and that it should therefore simply be given to ultralisks as an ability (like zealot charge but without requiring an upgrade) instead of it being a spell on the infestor. Would be OP and too easy to use. It would in that case AT LEAST require an upgrade.
Substance of post man, substance.....
Why would it be OP? Have you ever actually used an Ultralisk? I say that not to be derogatory, but to point out the fact that maneuvering Ultralisks is currently incredibly difficult, due to their (IMO) terribly designed radius and clunky model. I don't think that Ultralisks should get stuck behind Zerglings, or be able to be killed by 3 kiting Marauders...So this Charge style idea wouldn't be "OP".
So I don't think it would be "too easy" to use. I think it would balance things out to work as intended. FWIW though, perhaps if the Ultra model gets improved by the time Phase II of the Beta returns, I might be inclined to agree with you that this would be a little overpowered. Then again, I might just say "It's an Ultralisk. ULTRA man." 
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On June 16 2010 07:06 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Might need a bit more research (for example, the timing of the spell, whether the initial shots ignore Frenzy but subsequent ones obey, attacking different types of targets, and so forth), but it seems to point to a bug for now. I have only experimented seriously with buildings, but Frenzy normally works vs buildings, as vs anything. Before starting the thread, I also ran (a few times) two competing BL each vs the same type of building - one BL with frenzy (keep renewing it all the time), one not. And the result was that they both finish simultaneously.
I ran similar tests with other units, one frenzied, one not - and then the frenzy unit finishes, while the other one still has to kill 1/5th of total HP remaining.
As less serious tests, I did also run frenzied and not frenzied BLs vs
- hydras
- rines and thors
Results of such tests are quite dispersed, which makes them less reliable without large number of tests, but the average from 10 runs was about the same for frenzy and non-frenzy.
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Poll attached to OP. Custom test map added too: http://www.multiupload.com/PAHGMDK288
On June 16 2010 07:18 Wr3k wrote:
Post this in bug report forums? It kinda makes sense due to every broodling being its own unit. I'd appreciate if someone posts it on BNet, because I don't own any older games to renew my account atm.
We can argue whether Frenzy should affect both Broodling Strike and Broodling Claws, or only the former, but as of now this is clearly a bug, because the help screen shows +5 Frenzy bonus to Broodling Strike, which does not actually work.
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EPT
