EPTBrainstorm around how to fix Frenzy & corruption - Page 2
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
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prosky
Poland83 Posts
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Daedie
Belgium160 Posts
 .Aka, I don't think the spell needs fixing, I think the game needs time to evolve towards it's usage. People figure out Ultra play vs mech -> Terran figures out getting cannons on thors to extend their usage -> Zerg needs frenzy to win. | ||
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MasterFwiffo
United States97 Posts
Although, combined with a Fungal Growth or two, that could be really, really powerful. As for corruption, dump the damn thing, and give us back the corrupted unit idea. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:43 Daedie wrote: I think once Terran players start remembering to get strike cannons on their thors (that they'll need to make vs muta) to lock down ultra's, Zerg will really start appreciating frenzy .Aka, I don't think the spell needs fixing, I think the game needs time to evolve towards it's usage. People figure out Ultra play vs mech -> Terran figures out getting cannons on thors to extend their usage -> Zerg needs frenzy to win. no this is the wrong thought process. Zerg uses Ultralisk -> terran gets lots of thor + 250 mm cannon. THor gets mindcontrolled - uses cannon on other thors, frenzy is still useless in comparison, but no really if terran scouts ultralisk den and gets stimmed marauder its gg ultralisk no contest, not even close. | ||
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mucker
United States1120 Posts
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Daedie
Belgium160 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:47 Madkipz wrote: no this is the wrong thought process. Zerg uses Ultralisk -> terran gets lots of thor + 250 mm cannon. THor gets mindcontrolled - uses cannon on other thors, frenzy is still useless in comparison, but no really if terran scouts ultralisk den and gets stimmed marauder its gg ultralisk no contest, not even close. Ye, I'm sure the tanks will kindly let you get in range of the thors to MC them  . And then I haven't even started about the fact that with enough energy, you can simply do both spells.And stimmed marauders for a meching Terran, really? I mean, you know that it takes a lot of time to establish the tech, he has no upgrades on his infantry and the zerg already has 3/3 lings and infestors up and running right? | ||
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:42 prosky wrote: @krikktone, yeah right gl defending against 130hp pack of banelings Well maybe 50 hp, or increase the cost of the ability | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On June 10 2010 02:59 Daedie wrote: Ye, I'm sure the tanks will kindly let you get in range of the thors to MC them . And then I haven't even started about the fact that with enough energy, you can simply do both spells.And stimmed marauders for a meching Terran, really? I mean, you know that it takes a lot of time to establish the tech, he has no upgrades on his infantry and the zerg already has 3/3 lings and infestors up and running right? yes, tanks will waste shots on lings and ultralisk, dosnt take long to get in range, mindcontrol thors and do their cannon thing. TLO proved it in the day9 daily show that thors are not the answer to lings and ultralisk. To beat Ling Ultra you must either get air, or stimmed maraudes with hellion support. You just gotta set yourself up for additional transitions, you cant PURELY rely on factory units on heavy macro based maps like metalopolis against this Ling, infestor ultralisk composition. | ||
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Paper117
United States210 Posts
But if the issue with the ultralisk is its inability to properly tank, what do you guys think about making a spell that grants absurd health regen? Health regen is already an established Zerg mechanic. It wouldn't be such a stretch to have a Zerg spell that just exaggerates one of their natural abilities, right? I don't think an ultralisk with massive regen would be OP. Not only could it still be focused down, it would necessitate focusing--effectively filling the role of tank. Idk if this would be better for the infester or the overseer, and I suppose it could be an instant healing spell that would overlap with Transfusion. : ( Idk, I'm trying to help. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
Be cool to use it on a few stalkers and when the stalkers are retreating, they all blink except 5 that are left behind and quickly surrounded. Last like 20 seconds? Could be used to try to put on HT before they feedback the corrupter so they can't do anything, including morphing to archons. Units would lose cloak and if used on say a DT, it would be unclocked even when out of range of the observer... If AOE I feel it would have to be a very small AOE and a projectile so it would miss lots of moving units and maybe only 10 seconds. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
Some good thoughts summed up; On June 10 2010 00:52 Pwere wrote: Frenzy could also work as a 'cloud' following the unit, much like an aura, which would make it viable on bunches of small units as well as on big, important, targets like the ultra. The cloud gets bigger/lasts longer when a unit it buffs kill a target. On June 09 2010 22:36 Todie wrote: ...In my opinion though, Corruption isnt conceptually useless. it just needs some spice. i havnt spent much time actually pondering this, but just as an example, what if the corruption effect could spread between enemy units as you killed them? this would empathize micromanagement around those units for both sides; if killed while under the effect, one or a few nearby units could become corrupted in turn. This would also make it viable to cast it on smaller units, even zerglings or marines, knowing that when killed, it would make other units more vulnerable! HowlingMirage: Unfortunately no. . . Frenzy has very poor synergy with Broodlords because the newly created Broodlings are unaffected The skill might be viable if it transfered. Say if you frenzied an Overlord full of units. . . those units inside would also be Frenzied. My thoughts on Frenzy from the posts in this thread; Frenzy: should be cast on a single unit, or a spot on the ground, and cost 75 Energy, and be active for 60 seconds, creating a cloud. The cloud that it creates will follow a unit (Allowing it to be cast on an overseer or such, or on a zergling in the middle of the crowd) or stay in a spot. The unit that it targets would recieve an additional 50 maximum hp to allow it to be effective (85 health zergling would still be easily dealt with.) but no increase in health when cast on the ground, or in units around it. This would allow it to be like a dark swarm but for damage, and make it vital for the terran to snipe out the unit that has it cast on it, as it greatly increases damage for the units surrounding it. Corruption: The corruption ability would be increased to 100 energy, and be cast with a radius of .75 The units that are killed in the area of the corruption spell; 1) Spread the corruption ability to units that are almost immediately touching it. 2) Spawn 1 broodlings for every supply. (Marine 1, marauder 2, tank 3.) I think this combination of ideas would make Frenzy viable to be cast on smaller units, and powerful enough to warrant an increase in energy cost. Corruption would be instrumental in dealing with ground units, as they can only attack air, making your ground army more cost effective while the corrupters take out the air. If anyone has any suggestions, please reply, and point out if things aren't as effective/too powerful. | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
Frenzy on the infestor is bland but okay I guess. Getting such a huge bonus for having to keep infestors around with ultras makes for more micro. I would probably be more in favor of giving frenzy to the ultralisk (as an upgrade, only able to cast on itself) to make it similar to stim. | ||
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
10 second duration, +10% damage duration resets and damage is increased by 5% for every unit that the frenzied unit killed Frenzy: 30 second duration, +25% damage, deals X(3-5?) damage a second to the unit every time the frenzied unit kills an enemy unit it heals for 50 HP Frenzy 30 second duration, +20% damage every time the frenzied unit kills an enemy unit it gains 5% move and attack speed, capping at 50% Frenzy: 30 second duration, +20% damage all units within 1 radius range of the frenzied target also get the bonus damage Frenzy: 10-20 second duration, +10-20% damage 50 energy cost when the frenzied unit dies it causes all friendly units within 2 radius range of where it died to also gain frenzy (this would lead to some interesting uses, where you use it on a ling before a fight, surround the ling and then kill it, then charge in) The main purpose of a number of the above uses is to create a similar mechanic of darkswarm, where the zerg has a spell they can cast that gives them a rediculous advantage if the enemy decides to fight a pitched battle in that spot, but is quickly negated by the enemy backing off for a short time, or similar. Corruption: 30 second duration Every time the affected unit attacks it takes 10 damage Corruption: 30 second duration Every time the affected unit attacks it also hits itself for half it's own damage Corruption: 5-10 second duration +20% damage taken when an affected unit dies, all units within 1 range are also affected with corruption Corruption: 30 second duration +0-20% damage taken When an effected unit dies, all enemies(of the caster not the affected unit) within 1 radius range take 10-30 damage Just a few ideas for how they can be reworked. These will need to then be balanced, I'm just throwing concepts. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3062 Posts
The lore(/name) can be something like: Craggy carapace...(blah blah blah). The skill will also have a timer, so you couldn't block up all your units way in advance. I think this is a reasonable temp-substitute for dark swarm, and a nice little Zerg-type PDD. It's at least worth experimenting with. | ||
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Paper117
United States210 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:39 TLOBrian wrote: Corruption: The corruption ability would be increased to 100 energy, and be cast with a radius of .75 The units that are killed in the area of the corruption spell; 1) Spread the corruption ability to units that are almost immediately touching it. 2) Spawn 1 broodlings for every supply. (Marine 1, marauder 2, tank 3.) ... Corruption would be instrumental in dealing with ground units, as they can only attack air, making your ground army more cost effective while the corrupters take out the air. If anyone has any suggestions, please reply, and point out if things aren't as effective/too powerful. I really like that. When you're attacking with corruptors and transitioning them to BL's, I could see this version of corruption allowing the remaining corruptors to help with all the broodling confusion. | ||
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pyr0ma5ta
United States458 Posts
On June 10 2010 00:11 baller wrote: i think corruptors should be given a "true corruption" spell because they r called "corruptors" after all. it costs 200 mana and when its used u get a random one of the following abilities: Bribery - u pay minerals and one of the opponents units (he's not sure which one) becomes ur unit to use. Electoral fraud - other player, no matter how much he wants to build a unit or building, can only build the stuff u want him to build for 30 seconds Cronyism - u favor the workers that mined the minerals that were used to build ur corrupter. the workers that mined the minerals that were used to build ur corrupter get the best jobs -- like mining from gold minerals, building the greater spire / fusion core, etc. they also don't have to scout or fight. Embezzlement - u get 50% of what ur opponent mines for 30 seconds without him knowing Kickbacks - ur opponent's buildings and units cost 50% more for 30 seconds Illegal campaign contributions - for every 50 energy, one of ur opponents workers stops working. he doesn't know which and it doesn't show up on his idle workers bar. best used against terran bc it might be an scv building an important building Match fixing - costs 10,000 minerals, if ur playing a korean he immediately loses the game Er. Not sure if I should laugh or cry. Too soon, buddy. :s Although I did laugh at "Match fixing" | ||
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Paper117
United States210 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:47 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: ... I would probably be more in favor of giving frenzy to the ultralisk (as an upgrade, only able to cast on itself) to make it similar to stim. I like that too. What do you think about using my massive regen idea for your ultralisk stim ability? It would help fix my concern about my spell overlapping with transfusion. Though, "Frenzy" wouldn't sound right for this spell. It should probably be called "Berserk" or something like that. | ||
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TLOBrian
United States453 Posts
On June 10 2010 03:53 Paper117 wrote: I really like that. When you're attacking with corruptors and transitioning them to BL's, I could see this version of corruption allowing the remaining corruptors to help with all the broodling confusion. Exactly! Not to mention the broodlings that spawn out of the units will be doing extra damage to the units around it, since they will be effected by corruption : D Corrupter/Broodlord/Infestor would be a DEVESTATING late game composition, with fungal growth going down on a large part of the army, corruption being cast, and then frenzy being cast on a broodling near the front lines; TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DAMAGE would ensue! | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
Corruptors spell is pretty good, I use it all the time. Especially on collosus (the most common time for me to have corruptors is zvp) And when they collossi are dead, I still have a use for my AA shit. I throw it all over their ground army (immortals, stalkers, high temps, archons). In zvt, the most common time for me to have them is late game when I'm going for broodlords, so the corruptors who aren't that good vs vikings are now a bit better. It helps tremendously if you add mutas in there. I didn't read the wall of text in the op or any replies, but I skimmed it and it seems you want more wc3-esque abilities. These sound ok on paper, but in practice its cluttery, confusing, and just unnecessary imho. Huge reason why wc3 failed as a spectator sport | ||
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