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Corruption: Passive ability. Each attack from a corruptor adds one level of corruption, up to a maximum of five levels. A unit under corruption would move 10% slower, and loose -1 damage per attack. A unit looses one level of corruption every ten seconds it goes without being attacked by a corrupter. Compensates the fact that corrupter are among the slowest air t air fighters, and lack the insane range of vikings. Would synergize well with hydras, making enemy units more difficult to run away.
Frenzy: Cost, 50 energy. Makes a unit immune to stuns, snares, slows, etc. Unit gains a 25% speed increase. All attacks dealing more than five damage to the unit are lowered to five. Units under frenzy also gain attack priority for the enemy army. Lasts 20 seconds. Basically a revamped defense matrix, but actually somewhat useful in main combat.
Strike Cannons: Flack cannons, as someone else said. Channeled for, say, ten seconds. Any air units who are caught in the AoE are stunned there, unable to move, taking 25 damage a second. Killing the Thor obviously ends the spell. It would cost 125 energy. Not a great spell, but I think it would add more than the current useless spell the Thor has. Would also make it impossible for enemy raiders to flee, if they get caught. Further backs up its role as a hero class Goliath.
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Corruptors should get a "channeled" spell that damages buildings over time. That would reduce the micro managment part during battle and the corruptors wont be useless if you kill all your opponents air units. I imagine blizz could make a really cool animation also, with the tentacles reaching down into the building or something...
Dunno about frenzy, i dislike the spell... Maybe replace it with a single target dark swarm like ability? That would the ultra extremely hard to kill for a short period of time, making it possible to break siege contains and the like, but not making your entire army almost immune to ranged attacks like in BW.
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If up against the Collossi/Sentry/Stalker 1affff-ball and have Corruptors ready to try to take out the Collossi, have anyone tried/calculated/created a map to test if it's actually effective to even use corruption?
I mean, you lose attacking time, and you have to get up closer to the Collossi, and then you are under fire from stalkers, and you will lose even more attacking time to move away from the ball again, so you have to stay close and keep firing, and then the corruptor will die. Perhaps the spell is even doing more bad than good?
And anyway, if the there is a slight advantage, you probably should spend those APM for more important things, since only the the koreans and top foreigners have enough APM to actually be able to do it cost-effective, since not being oblivirated instantly without killing anything from that Collossi/sentry/stalker 1a2a-ball is a feast I have not even seen the top foreigners do. Just look at Idra vs Whitera, or Machine vs Whitera. On lower levels I guess it is even worse, since the Protoss easily can press 1affff with 20-30 APM with that ball, while the zerg will be wiped out before he knew what hit him.
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I like the idea of corruption spreading on target death, it really incentivises focus fire instead of just encouraging you to puke off energy when you can. Maybe limit it to one or two jumps as even a single corrupter being added to something that excels at picking off single targets like mass hydras could easily spread it faster then units could be microd apart.
Frenzy is a much more flawed spell. ultralisks are zerg's massive unit, it should be vulnerable to neural parasite or shock cannons the same way thors and colloxen are. You don't even research neural parasite in zvz unless you see your opponent getting ultras and infestors can be picked off while channeling by hydras and burrow roaches as well as other races can, so why don't they have a caster ability slot taken up by a counter spell counter spell? Because it's just not good design to have a weird chain of one uping spells that only come into play with one type of build. The 25% damage being worthless to anything other then ultras has been discussed, the immunity function is the only part that makes the spell vaguely acceptable and it's not a real plus.
Best alteration right now I can think of would be to make frenzy the equal and opposite of guardian shield. Same range, cloud of frenzying pharamones centered on the infestor gives +2 damage upgrades to melee units (only melee units, same as guardian shield only applies to ranged damage. And not broodlings since they cant get attack upgrades). It's useful as soon as you get infestors with zerglings/banelings, and poping off one or 2 frenzies throughout a fight wouldn't completely waste an infestor's energy like trying to cast frenzy 6 or 7 times on all your late game ultralisks does. Would also make the crackling upgrade stronger by association. Also something you still might choose not to use if you have few melee units or you want to save energy for more FGs and NPs.
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On June 10 2010 00:23 maragin wrote:
Corruption could be an interesting autocast. Not sure if that fixes it, but that would give it flexibility.
I don't think so. The zerg race already is heavily into macro - they need some more to micro to be fun and interesting to play. Corruption on autocast would not help in that regard.
That said, I like the corruption idea of the OP - after all corruption should *spread* somehow.
With Frenzy well...tough nut to crack. As a single target spell its application is limited to Ultras; as an AOE it would feel too much like Bloodlust from WC3. After all we want a new game and not copy another one (so dark swarm is out as well  )
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The only way frenzy would be effective is if it became a defensive spell. That's the thing that needs help, not attack.
Corruption on the other hand was fine the way it originally was, I used that ability just as much as FG to be honest.
I'm pleasantly surprised that this was well written.
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corruption:
i thought of what were corruptors able to do before the public beta: to transform dead flying units into organic air-air turrets. Why not merge this with the current corruption spell? A corrupted unit takes 20% much damage and when it dies it becomes for few seconds a corrupted immobile thing able to cast corruption one more time and able to attacks (low damage) nearby enemy units.
Also the idea of corruption being spread like a disease when the unit dies, is good as well.
frenzy:
i really dont like this spell on the infestator. Since its main use is to be cast on ultralisks, why couldn't it be an ultralisk ability (self-buff)? It would make it easier to use with a large group of ultralisks and it would free a slot for a new (more offensive?) spell for the infestator.
infested terran:
i really don't like this ability as well. If Blizzard really want to keep infested terran in the game, then imo it would be better to merge this spell with contaminate: if you contaminate a terran production building (rax/factory/port), then few infested terrans are produced. Ok it would make contaminate more effective in one matchup, but infested terrans were already mathcup-specific in SC1, and maybe Zerg currently need a little help versus Terran.
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On June 10 2010 07:06 PrinceXizor wrote:
Corruption is amazing. pheonixes have graviton beam, which while more power, is made up for by the fact that pheonixes are easily killed and have to stay still to use it. corruption allows corruptors to help your army even when all the air units are dead. ALSO corruption allows a corruptor to 1v1 a viking and win, which is very good. you seem convinced, and may very well be right about corruption being effective in certain situations. that doesnt make it a good ability with dynamic aspects to its use however. we're in broad agreement about that.
And now to keep it positive; some great suggestions and addons upon previous suggestions in here, lets quote our favourites and keep building on them!
On June 10 2010 03:21 FabledIntegral wrote:
Corruption - targeted unit (or possible AOE if nerfed somewhat) has all passive and active abilities removed. Ie. Mauraders no more concussive shells OR stim, Zealots no charge, Stalkers no blink, etc.
Be cool to use it on a few stalkers and when the stalkers are retreating, they all blink except 5 that are left behind and quickly surrounded. Last like 20 seconds? Could be used to try to put on HT before they feedback the corrupter so they can't do anything, including morphing to archons.
Units would lose cloak and if used on say a DT, it would be unclocked even when out of range of the observer...
If AOE I feel it would have to be a very small AOE and a projectile so it would miss lots of moving units and maybe only 10 seconds.
This is a cool idea overall. not sure how good a fit it is though, or if it would work better retaining a %damage-taken debuff along with it.
On June 10 2010 00:52 Pwere wrote:
[...]My thoughts on Frenzy from the posts in this thread;
Frenzy: should be cast on a single unit, or a spot on the ground, and cost 75 Energy, and be active for 60 seconds, creating a cloud.
The cloud that it creates will follow a unit (Allowing it to be cast on an overseer or such, or on a zergling in the middle of the crowd) or stay in a spot.
The unit that it targets would receive an additional 50 maximum hp to allow it to be effective (85 health zergling would still be easily dealt with.) but no increase in health when cast on the ground, or in units around it.
This would allow it to be like a dark swarm but for damage, and make it vital for the terran to snipe out the unit that has it cast on it, as it greatly increases damage for the units surrounding it.
Corruption: The corruption ability would be increased to 100 energy, and be cast with a radius of .75 The units that are killed in the area of the corruption spell;
1) Spread the corruption ability to units that are almost immediately touching it.
2) Spawn 1 broodlings for every supply. (Marine 1, marauder 2, tank 3.)
I think this combination of ideas would make Frenzy viable to be cast on smaller units, and powerful enough to warrant an increase in energy cost.
Corruption would be instrumental in dealing with ground units, as they can only attack air, making your ground army more cost effective while the corrupters take out the air.
If anyone has any suggestions, please reply, and point out if things aren't as effective/too powerful.
I really like the basic idea of turning frenzy into a terrain control thing; get cast on the ground.. to cast it on units to give them an aura... that gets a bit too flimsy IMO. i'd rather try to keep things a bit more crisp.
same goes for releasing a broodling upon death. its cool and all, but im not sure its practical enough for the clutter it produces.
On June 10 2010 03:49 Shiladie wrote:
Frenzy:
30 second duration, +20% damage
all units within 1 radius range of the frenzied target also get the bonus damage
[...]
Corruption:
30 second duration
Every time the affected unit attacks it takes 10 damage
Corruption:
5-10 second duration +20% damage taken
when an affected unit dies, all units within 1 range are also affected with corruption
Corruption:
30 second duration +0-20% damage taken
When an effected unit dies, all enemies(of the caster not the affected unit) within 1 radius range take 10-30 damage
Just a few ideas for how they can be reworked. These will need to then be balanced, I'm just throwing concepts.
these are some crisp straightforward suggestions. i plain like them.
On June 10 2010 06:36 Evilruler wrote:
Spawn Corruption - Costs xx energy or have a set number of uses, like vulture mines, or cost resources, or a combination of these.
Upon each use the corruptor spawns a flying, static, corruption mine that charges forward to any flying nearby enemies and - causes damage, slows down (cool to catch phoenixes), slows speed down, increase damage input, WE.
this is kind of big and new, but its still just a simple ability concept; it'd work like a floating spidermine with a slowing effect if i understand it correctly? - i like that!
On June 10 2010 14:11 quaren wrote:
Corruption: A static AoE cloud under which all units received a % extra damage. I think this would help zerg bust turtled players holding a static choke. Does not affect buildings.
Imagine a terran entrenched at a choke... you Frenzy ultras to run up and not be vaporized instantly, then throw down some Corruption clouds where the terran is holding his units. Now he is forced to either move or defend from what has now become a less favourable position.
I think this would reward more dynamic play.
as mentioned above, i dig the basic idea of a static cloud ability a'la dark swarm: its a proven concept, and this is a fresh take on it! %extra damage taken inside the cloud also seems significantly more intuitive than damage dished out from within the cloud. - at least as long as you can get close enough to cast it. i totally love this idea!
possible alterations of this idea:
make it only affect melee attacks - this would benefit the zerg in most cases, and make for dynamic play overall; "its ok to move into the cloud as long as my oponent doesnt flank it with melee" ... on the other hand, that does bias zerg play towards melee units, and terrans not having melee becomes a problem.
second: make the damage increase damage-over-time - still based on a proportion the attack damage received. maybe as high as 50% as its not instant. this may feel like a needless overalp with the DoT effect of fungal growth though...
question: what about flying units? affected or not; do they fly above or 'within' the frnzy-cloud? (frenzy is so the wrong name for this..)
Keep up the good brainstorming people!
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A new idea: what if frenzy remained a one target ability with similar stats, but spread - - not as suggested above - but spread in a small area or to one more target, every set timeunit?
for example, it could sprea to one uit more every second! .... what makes this interesting is again, the shared duration of all the frenzy targets; tehy'd all run out of frenzy at the same time, some one casting, or a set of castings - would have the most effect when the frenzy was about to run out - unless it was prevetnted from spreading! this should siutationally affect tactical priorities!
come on. keep posting here, its a worthwhile topic!
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I don't care about the exact mechanics much, but corruption should be able to use up all corruptor energy.
They have only one ability and if they are fighting massive targets, most of them won't even need to cast once, so their energy just piles up.
It could be a simple auto-cast 10 bonus damage on 1 attack for 25 energy and it would be better than the current one, since the more energy they have the better they are in combat, and like casters it's more effective if you build them in advance, instead of the last moment, so planning beforehand is rewarded, e.t.c.
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I was thinking of taking Frenzy completely out
Replacing it with a spell called screech
It would cost 100 energy
The Infestor makes a loud screech to stun all units, including your own
But your units recover much faster
7 range?
The effects would be short as to not overkill an army
Like 2 second stun for your army and 3 for theirs
This could be used to run if you think your going to lose
Or used as to get a small edge in a battle
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Frenzy, In order of importance:
***** Fix the Brood Lord bug! (the one with the main BL damage per each ling shot)
**** Extend the Frenzy of the BL unto each of its broodlings
*** Increase the Frenzy duration a little bit
** Perhaps, enable Frenzied units to break Force Fields and escape Vortex (since they should be able to deal with traps and snares)
* Protection from Feedback and EMP is probably too much to ask for, even though it kinda fits the description of avoiding mind manipulation
Corruption, I kinda like it as it is. It seems to me it would be too easy if it was passive ability or transferred after death.. Maybe allow it to be cast vs buildings too. As of now the only spell vs buildings is Contamination, which only stops production and research.
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why come up with ur own spells when u can just straight rip from dota? nice.
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I would like to see frenzy become some kind of AoE buff. Zerg are known for multitudes of fast, weak units and I think it would fit nicely with that concept. It would, of course, have to be balanced but I think it could be something unique to Zerg.
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protoss need help against critical mass tanks and that's about it for balance on a large scale... any other tweaking should be to make weak stuff VIABLE - not pathetically overpowered.
also, i kinda disagree that frenzy is useless..
it gives more damage than regular damage upgrades accross the board. okay it's not as good as fungal growth in most situations, so it could do with a tweak - but i think people just overlook it because they can't see anything happen except smoke start coming off a unit.
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again, saying its usless and saying its no a well adjusted ability is different things.
frenzy generally isnt practical to use on anyhting but ultralisks, and the results produced by the ability are very onedimensional; the abilitys current state isnt a good one. so spit some ideas to improve it, or we might get stuck with it as it is.
i think its a fundamentaly bad mindset to be afraid of switching some abilities around if they are bad, merely out of fear of disrupting any momentary balance.. its beta, we need to make sure ability concept are all fleshed out so that they can help contribute to fun dynamic and interesting game play.
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Frenzy: Make it an aoe originating from the location of the infestor that increases attack speed and makes units immune to the snares. The risk is exposing your infestors but it's much stronger than the single target version currently in play. Also gives zerg an added element of positioning on the battlefield which gives the ability a wide range of implementation based on skill.
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Frenzy
50 energy, 10 second duration, multiple friendly targets, ground only
Any Frenzied Zerg recieves an attack speed bonus while on creep
Obviously this works for ground units and doesn't enhance banelings (which are already super awesome). I wanted the ability to be situational, but more importantly makes frenzy a much more passive agressive ability, puts an emphasis on good creep coverage, and only gives zerg an advantage offensively with good micro combos (Queen/Infestor, Overlord/Infestor).
Downside is that it could lead to some very boring cat and mouse scenarios when armies meet near the edge of creep. Also something to consider is that it makes the tech line Zergling-->Infestor-->Ultra more viable (might make defense too easy).
Corruption:
100 energy, 15 second duration, single target
Temporarily reduces range of unit by 1. If unit dies while corrupted, splashes onto nearby units, debuff and duration does not stack.
The main part is corruption turns into an ability that spreads. I've tried to think of lots of other debuffs, like damage reduction, attack speed, movement speed, or plain DoT, but the more I thought about those, I felt like they either 1.) Made it too difficult for opponents to retreat 2.) Too similar to other abilities 3.) Caused the propagation of corruption to spread too quickly. Reducing range reduces unit effectiveness, but in a much different manner. In large battles this might be too powerful -- hard to say -- perhaps another limitation could be that it only targets armored units? But then it serves almost no purpose in ZvZ...
Another reason I like this ability is Zerg's focus on melee/short range attacks. Rather than bring back dark swarm, an ability that allowed the zerg to get closer to the enemy, why not the other way around? Make them decide whether or not to come closer to us.
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I say remove frenzy and add a similar ability to consume like in SC:BW. Then also change the infestor upgrade for starting energy to an upgrade for max energy. That would be much more useful than this frenzy bs
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EPT
