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On May 21 2010 13:21 asdfTT123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:18 roark wrote:On May 21 2010 13:16 asdfTT123 wrote:
OMFG is Blizzard fucking retarded? Zerg is going to be so broken right now with the new Overseer and it doesn't take an "theory-crafting" to figure that out...
You can now get the same ability that the corruptor originally had without a spire from a unit that you probably were going to make anyways for scouting and detection. In PvZ, Robo tech will no longer be viable because they can just constantly delay units be sending in Overseers and corrupting the building. Thirty seconds is a LONG time in SC terms and 75 energy is NOT a lot of energy requirement to cast such a ridiculously power spell. Hell, if I was Z I would make three overseers if I saw the zerg going 2 robo colossi and just constantly corrupt the robotics so the protoss can do nothing. It's basically instant win right there... Seeing how it also works against upgrades, I'd probably cast in on their archives to delay storm or even weapon upgrades, which already take so damn long to finish in the first place.
I don't play T but I can see zergs getting fancy and pooping on factories to delay thors while mutas rip terrans to shreds. WTF
And wtf buff to terran infantry upgrades? What is blizzard thinking? I can live with the void ray nerf and sentry nerf (neither bug me that much) but I question where Blizzard is getting their figures from. Here is the flaw with your argument. If you buy a bunch of Overseers, you can't buy the Mutas. Zerg has to be super careful about their gas. 100g can go to either a Muta OR an Overseer but not both. In almost every PvZ I've played, the zerg always gets at least one overseer. WIth that overseer which was only originally used for changeling/scouting, you can now delay the P's colossi for basically no additional cost. I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend an extra 100-200 gas on another one or two overseers, keep them alive since they're pretty fast, and just corrupt the P's robo periodically. Good 200 gas well spent...don't care if it delays my spire. Hell, if I continue corrupting the robo, you won't NEED spire tech and you can safely go hydra to counter P's lack of colossi
Oh ffs, kill the overseer, problem solved. Or make sure your robo bay isn't exposed to an easy contaminate hit... There are so many things you can do.
Seriously you guys are complaining for nothing. Wait to see how it plays. You act like Blizzard didn't test out the patch internally.
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it won't be that ridiculously easy to abuse contaminate. once it happens to you once, you'll be on the alert for it. overseers aren't THAT fast. if you don't build your robo facility at the very freaking edge of your base, the overseer will have to run the gamut of whatever's in your base. i use changelings to scout bases because i'm terrified of losing the overseer. you know why? because that's valuable supply and a whole mutalisk or corrupter or TWO hydras, plus valuable detection.. what if i lose all my overseers trying to be cute with this new ability, and then you drop some DT's on me? there's a million reasons this is not that big a deal. to abuse this ability that badly, you'll need insane multitasking. like basically inhumanly perfect play.
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with all these "spell" additions to the game, it feels more like a world of warcraft patch than a sc2 patch. Frenzy? is this like heroism for sc2? thats ridiculous. Plus the FF ability was fine IMO, it was a clever game mechanic that people used to their full potential. Goodness why wreck a game so hard so early...
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zerg able to harras is ok and im happy, but able to harras with something free of supply ? did i miss something ?
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On May 21 2010 13:29 MasterAsia wrote:
The ultra thing is very stupid. They totally changed the role of ultralisk: from a damage taker to a damage maker. We zerg do not need another damage maker, what we really need is a damage taker, just like the old ultralisk.
What ultralisk really need is the movement speed, which should be as fast as zergling (as in SC1), or slightly slower. Now if we attack with ultralings, the zerglings and banelings will be in the front, its very bad for players that can't micro like pro.
Also lower the tech tree will help. My suggestion will be automaticly upgraded speed and armor, but we can make the slash damage and head-attack (structures) needed to research. In this case, the ultralisk can work as a pure damage taker earlier, which is exactly where we want it.
Agree with this too. Esp since the roach is now not as viable of a tanking unit. Hydra is already viable enough for DPS and is already so damn versatile in all MU's, the new ultra just seems redundant.
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Am I the only one thinking how good Nydus+Ultras could be? They do more damage to buildings and most T have started playing mech versus Z. The highly immobile mech army could possibly be caught horribly out of position by this.
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On May 21 2010 13:30 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:21 asdfTT123 wrote:On May 21 2010 13:18 roark wrote:On May 21 2010 13:16 asdfTT123 wrote:
OMFG is Blizzard fucking retarded? Zerg is going to be so broken right now with the new Overseer and it doesn't take an "theory-crafting" to figure that out...
You can now get the same ability that the corruptor originally had without a spire from a unit that you probably were going to make anyways for scouting and detection. In PvZ, Robo tech will no longer be viable because they can just constantly delay units be sending in Overseers and corrupting the building. Thirty seconds is a LONG time in SC terms and 75 energy is NOT a lot of energy requirement to cast such a ridiculously power spell. Hell, if I was Z I would make three overseers if I saw the zerg going 2 robo colossi and just constantly corrupt the robotics so the protoss can do nothing. It's basically instant win right there... Seeing how it also works against upgrades, I'd probably cast in on their archives to delay storm or even weapon upgrades, which already take so damn long to finish in the first place.
I don't play T but I can see zergs getting fancy and pooping on factories to delay thors while mutas rip terrans to shreds. WTF
And wtf buff to terran infantry upgrades? What is blizzard thinking? I can live with the void ray nerf and sentry nerf (neither bug me that much) but I question where Blizzard is getting their figures from. Here is the flaw with your argument. If you buy a bunch of Overseers, you can't buy the Mutas. Zerg has to be super careful about their gas. 100g can go to either a Muta OR an Overseer but not both. In almost every PvZ I've played, the zerg always gets at least one overseer. WIth that overseer which was only originally used for changeling/scouting, you can now delay the P's colossi for basically no additional cost. I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend an extra 100-200 gas on another one or two overseers, keep them alive since they're pretty fast, and just corrupt the P's robo periodically. Good 200 gas well spent...don't care if it delays my spire. Hell, if I continue corrupting the robo, you won't NEED spire tech and you can safely go hydra to counter P's lack of colossi Oh ffs, kill the overseer, problem solved. Or make sure your robo bay isn't exposed to an easy contaminate hit... There are so many things you can do. Seriously you guys are complaining for nothing. Wait to see how it plays. You act like Blizzard didn't test out the patch internally.
The overseer is a fast flying unit, if they want to contaminate your robo then they will be able to. You can only protect it if you surround it with your units a few matrix's away in each direction.
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Well it's time to learn how to play the game again.
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On May 21 2010 13:31 KhAlleB wrote:
zerg able to harras is ok and im happy, but able to harras with something free of supply ? did i miss something ?
I think you missed the part where you play the game and test the balance first before assuming something is irrevocably broken.
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On May 21 2010 13:31 Doc Daneeka wrote:
it won't be that ridiculously easy to abuse contaminate. once it happens to you once, you'll be on the alert for it. overseers aren't THAT fast. if you don't build your robo facility at the very freaking edge of your base, the overseer will have to run the gamut of whatever's in your base. i use changelings to scout bases because i'm terrified of losing the overseer. you know why? because that's valuable supply and a whole mutalisk or corrupter or TWO hydras, plus valuable detection.. what if i lose all my overseers trying to be cute with this new ability, and then you drop some DT's on me? there's a million reasons this is not that big a deal. to abuse this ability that badly, you'll need insane multitasking. like basically inhumanly perfect play.
ok with what will you kill the OS if you army get kill by the fight just bfr ?
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ppl that say ultras have to low health now just bring in a few queens and transfusion the ultras. it works wonders.
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So excited to use the Ultra Infestor combo now.
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I'd prefer Frenzy to be a small AOE and increase the energy cost, single target sounds less swarmy and more MMORPG.
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On May 21 2010 13:31 asdfTT123 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:29 MasterAsia wrote:
The ultra thing is very stupid. They totally changed the role of ultralisk: from a damage taker to a damage maker. We zerg do not need another damage maker, what we really need is a damage taker, just like the old ultralisk.
What ultralisk really need is the movement speed, which should be as fast as zergling (as in SC1), or slightly slower. Now if we attack with ultralings, the zerglings and banelings will be in the front, its very bad for players that can't micro like pro.
Also lower the tech tree will help. My suggestion will be automaticly upgraded speed and armor, but we can make the slash damage and head-attack (structures) needed to research. In this case, the ultralisk can work as a pure damage taker earlier, which is exactly where we want it. Agree with this too. Esp since the roach is now not as viable of a tanking unit. Hydra is already viable enough for DPS and is already so damn versatile in all MU's, the new ultra just seems redundant.
granted the ultralisk has more armor and more hp?
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On May 21 2010 13:27 PoD wrote:
Also anything that forces you to build static defense or keep units in your base just in case a unit that costs no supply might come and harass you is kind of silly. None of the other races of units that cost no supply and they can use to harass with.
Except that it will cost you 8 supply, 150 minerals, and 100 gas if it gets killed (not to mention the potential supply block and larve cost). And who said that each race needed the same thing? That goes against the whole idea of Starcraft's racial uniqueness.
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On May 21 2010 13:25 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:23 KhAlleB wrote:On May 21 2010 13:23 Jyvblamo wrote:On May 21 2010 13:22 asdfTT123 wrote:On May 21 2010 13:20 SpaceChick wrote:On May 21 2010 13:16 asdfTT123 wrote:
OMFG is Blizzard fucking retarded? Zerg is going to be so broken right now with the new Overseer and it doesn't take an "theory-crafting" to figure that out...
You can now get the same ability that the corruptor originally had without a spire from a unit that you probably were going to make anyways for scouting and detection..available from the start of lair tech! In PvZ, Robo tech will no longer be viable because they can just constantly delay units be sending in Overseers and corrupting the building. Thirty seconds is a LONG time in SC terms and 75 energy is NOT a lot of energy requirement to cast such a ridiculously power spell. Hell, if I was Z I would make three overseers if I saw the zerg going 2 robo colossi and just constantly corrupt the robotics so the protoss can do nothing. It's basically instant win right there... Seeing how it also works against upgrades, I'd probably cast in on their archives to delay storm or even weapon upgrades, which already take so damn long to finish in the first place. What is P going to do against hydra now without colossi?
I don't play T but I can see zergs getting fancy and pooping on factories to delay thors while mutas rip terrans to shreds. WTF
And wtf buff to terran infantry upgrades? What is blizzard thinking? I can live with the void ray nerf and sentry nerf (neither bug me that much) but I question where Blizzard is getting their figures from. Or put 2-3 Stalkers near your Robo Or a cannon Have you forgotten how fast a overseer is? How do you expect to kill it when it can corrupt your building, run away, and regen health? And putting a cannon next to your robo? That will do nothing and waste 150 minerals.... Or you could make another robotics facility. grats by wasting another 200/100 Well, the zerg spent resources getting all those overseers to contaminate your buildings right? There's a trade-off.
the zerg just contaminates the one thats building. and no the zerg doesnt waste resources, its like saying observers are wasted resources. they get them anyways.
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I'm a fan of how everybody complained about ZvT mech and now with a possibly viable tool to combat it, everybody goes back to crying about marauders. Banelings have always been a solid choice en masse to combat bioballs.
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I guess I will agree that on principle it's a bit wrong to have what is now essentially a combat unit in the overseer use 0 supply. Not that it will matter. I can remake this point with tons of hyperbole about how stupid blizzard is and how the game is ruined if you'd like.
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jesus so much to digest. i'm really pretty excited to try out 3v3 and 4v4 though
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On May 21 2010 12:41 Zato-1 wrote:Whoa. Pretty substantial changes there- most of the changes look like they're taking the game in the right direction, but there's one change I'm immediately opposed to: Show nested quote +Overseer - Contaminate spell added: Costs 75 energy - Targets a single enemy structure which cannot train units or research upgrades for 30 seconds. Infested Terran spell added: Costs 125 energy - Infested Terrans have the same stats as those previously created by the Infestor and are placed directly under the Overseer when spawned. This basically means that Zerg can continue growing past 200/200 supply, because they can train infinite Overseers which will be combat-capable units with patch 13. Not a fan of Zerg being the only race for which 200 supply isn't a hard cap on their army strength.
This is absurd. They could of done this before the patch and it's no different than mass auto-cannons for terran or infinite hallucinations to soak up dmg for protoss.
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EPT
