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This problem has been mentioned in an earlier post but since blizzard failed to fix this hotkey conflict out of all the hotkey conflicts that existed before patch 11, and since there hasnt been any activity whatsoever regarding this problem in any forum for the past weeks (not that it has been much activity regarding this issue earlier either), especially in the blizzard forums, I hereby want to encourage every zerg player that has encounterd this problem (any zerg that has ever tryed to build a roach when no larva happend to be available at that moment) to write about this problem at the blizzard forums. Otherwise we might not see this getting fixed any time soon. See links to the forumposts at blizzard forums below.
For those not familiar with this problem, its about the worker rallypoint having the same hotkey as roaches, "R". Thus leading to a zerg selecting the worker rallypoint unintentionally when trying to build a roach when no larva happen to be available. Alot of zergs end up accidentally placing out worker rallypoint where they obviously dont want them to be from time to time because of this (causing the zerg to spend time/apm on setting the worker rallypoint back to where you actually want it to be, probably at some mineral patch, or in worst case leading to drones unintentionally getting sent out to the middle of the map). Just as people before patch 11 from time to time could unintentionally upgrade ventral sacs "V" when trying to build an overlord "V" when no larva was available.
Link to the one forumpost about this issue at the US blizzard forums I could find (has 0 responses as of now): http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24401906465&sid=5000
Link to the one forumpost about this issue at the EU blizzard forums I could find (has 6 responses as of now): http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24401856555&postId=243996119287&sid=5010#0
I guess one cant blame blizzard for not fixing this hotkey conflict when we havent made any significant noice about it.
Thanks for reading.
EDIT: Ok some people might not think this actually is a problem. Let me explain a scenario where this hotkey conflict clearly is an issue. Lets say you as a zerg have 8 hatcherys with 4 queens. That will produce alot of larva, and lets say its a real intense part of the game and you simply want to make as many roaches as u can as fast as possible (you want to macro as efficiently as you can), u will obviously spam "S R" to do this (and it makes sense to spam "S R" since new larva will spawn every second when you produce such an amount of larva). Once you run out of larva you will end up selecting the worker rallypoint. You will most likely not notice this since you did this unintentionally and you might then end up clicking the worker rallypoint out in the middle of the battlefield. This is not something you want happening. And even if you dont actually set the worker rallypoint by mistake you will have wasted unnecessary apm/time etc on constantly having to notice if you have selected the worker rallypoint and then having to deselect it over and over again by rightclicking (not that sc2 requires that much apm as it is though). Fixing this unnecessary problem is not harder then simply changing the hotkey for the feature noone even uses anyways as of now, the "set worker rallypoint". Zergs simply rightclick on minerals patches/gas structures to set worker rallypoints instead of using the "R" hotkey for it. There are some situations where you would want to use the "set worker rallypoint" hotkey though, but like stated above, its hotkey needs to be changed to a hotkey that isnt also a hotkey of a unit.
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Well, why would you be spamming the roach hotkey if you don't even have any larvae selected? Players should really have to put that slight bit of attention in, IMO this doesn't need to be changed.
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I've never had the problem of clicking R for roaches and changing worker path, I didn't even know the problem existed till I read it 2 days ago (I didn't even know R was worker rally, it's pretty easy mode that you can click minerals and it auto does worker rally.) I did often experience the V upgrade/overlord problem though.
Guess I always just click another group instead of the ground when I leave hatch...
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On May 08 2010 08:33 Kantutan wrote:
Well, why would you be spamming the roach hotkey if you don't even have any larvae selected? Players should really have to put that slight bit of attention in, IMO this doesn't need to be changed.
you're obviously not a zerg player
I will occasionally mistakenly do the rally point thing when trying to make roaches. Not as often as I had with the Research drop upgrade though
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Seriously, unlike the V key for ventral sacks, I have experienced an issue with the roach keybind all of 0 times in 300 games. I think it's a problem with high spam APM players.
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No one ever had a problem with this in brood war when there was no worker rally point. Worker rallies are different from accidentally getting an upgrade you didn't want.
If people pay attention this won't happen.
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I also have had this probly. Its really annoying . I think its a fairly simple request that blizz fixes this. I dont even notice that im about to set worker rally point , so im about to click on my queen or on my minimap,,, and crap.... workers flying across the map... wtf
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Well, why would you be spamming the roach hotkey if you don't even have any larvae selected? Players should really have to put that slight bit of attention in, IMO this doesn't need to be changed.
This is the scenario that the OP was talking about:
-You are involved in an intense micro battle, perhaps stalling the enemy army with lings so that you can amass enough forces/spines to fight him off (read every game toss goes 3/4 gate). In the middle of the battle you attempt to make roaches, so you spam "nexus hotkey (4 for me)", "s", "r" so that the second a new larva pops, you will make it and be ready for the incoming attack. In the melee, you reroute your nexus and begin sending drones into the battle or to some random spot. This is the most annoying UI issue as zerg right now IMO.
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I've had this problem. Mostly in very hectic situations, like when fending off early zealot rushes. a minute after my breath comes back, I have one or two idle drones, chillin'.
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On May 08 2010 08:37 Tropics wrote:
No one ever had a problem with this in brood war when there was no worker rally point. Worker rallies are different from accidentally getting an upgrade you didn't want.
If people pay attention this won't happen.
What? When were you ever pressing R on a hatchery in sc1 except to set rally?
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United States11390 Posts
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On May 08 2010 08:37 Tropics wrote:
No one ever had a problem with this in brood war when there was no worker rally point. Worker rallies are different from accidentally getting an upgrade you didn't want.
If people pay attention this won't happen.
Yes you can constantly rightclick to deselect the worker rallypoint when you have selected it by mistake, if you happen to notice it that is, in a hasty situation you might not always do that.
My point is, wouldnt it be better if the hotkey for the worker rallypoint simply got changed to a hotkey that isnt also a hotkey for a unit? Noone even uses the "set worker rallypoint" intentionally anyways, people use the rightclick (on minerals patches/gas structure) to set the worker rallypoint.
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I've played a fair amount of zerg against gold/platinum players. It simply is not hard to tell whether or not larvae is actually selected, you can easily check using your peripheral vision. Haven't seen any pros like Idra, Artosis, Machine, Slush etc making this mistake whereas I've seen a few screw up with ventral sacs, just saying.
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On May 08 2010 08:48 Kantutan wrote:
I've played a fair amount of zerg against gold/platinum players. It simply is not hard to tell whether or not larvae is actually selected, you can easily check using your peripheral vision. Haven't seen any pros like Idra, Artosis, Machine, Slush etc making this mistake whereas I've seen a few screw up with ventral sacs, just saying.
And Ret's not a pro because???
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121563
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I did what I could and voiced my support in the EU bnet forum. This should really be in the next patch, they have worked hard to make hotkeys smooth and nonconflicting so far.
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I'm always accidentally resetting my worker rally to weird ass places... I play Protoss though, so it's my own damn fault  . Not sure what I keep doing...
I think OP has a legit complaint, especially given that Ret is concurring.
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On May 08 2010 09:14 Vain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 08:48 Kantutan wrote:
I've played a fair amount of zerg against gold/platinum players. It simply is not hard to tell whether or not larvae is actually selected, you can easily check using your peripheral vision. Haven't seen any pros like Idra, Artosis, Machine, Slush etc making this mistake whereas I've seen a few screw up with ventral sacs, just saying. And Ret's not a pro because??? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121563
He's quite inactive, not playing SC2 consistently. Anyways obviously it's not a fix that would take long. I'm just saying that it's not hard to cope with in the meantime and not really broken, just a minor inconvenience to some.
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I agree this is a problem, I have had this happen and it is quite frustrating, although I do not usually accidentally reset the hotkey, the fact remains that I will hit the reset rally for workers and have to right click to end the reset.
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On May 08 2010 09:17 Kantutan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 09:14 Vain wrote:On May 08 2010 08:48 Kantutan wrote:
I've played a fair amount of zerg against gold/platinum players. It simply is not hard to tell whether or not larvae is actually selected, you can easily check using your peripheral vision. Haven't seen any pros like Idra, Artosis, Machine, Slush etc making this mistake whereas I've seen a few screw up with ventral sacs, just saying. And Ret's not a pro because??? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121563 He's quite inactive, not playing SC2 consistently. Anyways obviously it's not a fix that would take long. I'm just saying that it's not hard to cope with in the meantime and not really broken, just a minor inconvenience to some.
fixable hotkey conflict is a good definition for 'broken' in this scenario imo.
And it's funny you don't consider Ret pro considering he knocked lz out of a $1500 tournament just a week ago.
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I don't understand why people who clearly do not play zerg are so against the change? If high profile zergs and others (such as myself) make this mistake why not change it. It's only happened a couple times, but its frustrating to suddenly realize the 7 drones you just made ended up rushing the enemy base as you were harassing with mutas.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
On May 08 2010 09:17 Kantutan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2010 09:14 Vain wrote:On May 08 2010 08:48 Kantutan wrote:
I've played a fair amount of zerg against gold/platinum players. It simply is not hard to tell whether or not larvae is actually selected, you can easily check using your peripheral vision. Haven't seen any pros like Idra, Artosis, Machine, Slush etc making this mistake whereas I've seen a few screw up with ventral sacs, just saying. And Ret's not a pro because??? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121563 He's quite inactive, not playing SC2 consistently. Anyways obviously it's not a fix that would take long. I'm just saying that it's not hard to cope with in the meantime and not really broken, just a minor inconvenience to some.
It happens to me every game I do play, it would probably happen more often if I was actually active (i'd play more games lol!!). I used the 3rd party hotkey tool to fix it, and that's why I haven't killed myself yet.
I've been spamming the shit out of my larve since 2002. Zerg is a very reactive race. In many scenarios, the only way zerg can win is by having a lot of stuff (especially in sc2). You need to move around your opponents army constantly to setup a good arch or flank and still macro perfectly. Lets say the other player is attacking you. You're doing is positioning your units and spamming the shit out of your hatches hoping you have enough by the time you clash. If you have decent keyboard hand speed I don't see how this problem does not occur unless you are being carefull about it. The more hatches, the more it happens. If I have 8 hatches, I am getting larve very very often. So I go fast, still outproducing my larve production even with 8 queens. And I run into this problem. With 2 hatches it's easier to not make the mistake since you know when you get your larve roughly and you wont need to needlessly spam, but long big macro games..............yeah.
Sure, you can adapt and constantly watch wether you actually have larve or not, but that's just an annoyance that doesn't need to be in the game. And especially hard to do in long macro wars with tons of shit going on.
I hope this get fixed and I am surprised that so few people have a problem with this.
Have to say that there are a lot of other things I wish got changed as well, but I get reminded of this one everytime I play 
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Yeah same for me, very annoying!
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Yes please blizzard fix it!
To the original poster: don't bother explaining to the people who argue, they argue just to argue. Out of about 10 erg players I know, it happens to 8 of them ever since the patch that added rally hockey R. I really hope this gets fixed soon.
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I just realized that this is why I often had random drones run across the maps when I was zerg.
I'm going to have to agree with you in making the worker rally something else besides any of the keys Zergs use to build units from a hatchery.
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Glad im not the only one! Now that you have to constantly spam the key to change larva i think it needs to be changed
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That happened to me in the early game of a ZvT. I was harrassing with my lings, and my roach warren just finished, i spammed S R while microing a fight, after 2 minutes i realised that my drones where heading to the opponent base... HUGE deal at the early stage of the game.
Even if some of you never had this problem, Blizzard needs to fix this.
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It happens to me every game. People who dont have this problem probably play toss and terran
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i dunno what everyone who says this is fine is thinking, im guessing most of them dont play the race yet somehow think their opinion matters. i hate this hotkey with a passion. after 11 patches, this has become my highest annoyance with the game.
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i mess up the ventral/ovie all the time
not so much roach/rally
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It happens in 100% of games I'm building roaches and it is teh tilt.
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[B]On May 08 2010 08:28 Ovi wrote:
Ok some people might not think this actually is a problem. Let me explain a scenario where this hotkey conflict is an issue. Lets say you as a zerg have 8 hatcherys with 4 queens. That will produce alot of larva, and lets say its a real intense part of the game and you simply want to make as many roaches as u can as fast as possible, u will obviously "spam" S R to do this (and it makes sense to spam S R since new larva will spawn every second when you produce such an amount of larva). Once you run out of larva you will end up selecting the worker rallypoint. You will most likely not notice this since you did this unintentionally and you might then end up clicking the worker rallypoint out in the middle of the battlefield. This is not something you want happening. Fixing this is not harder then simply changing the hotkey for the feature noone even uses anyways as of now, the "set worker rallypoint". Zergs simply rightclick on minerals patches/gas structures to set worker rallypoints instead of using the "R" hotkey for it. There are some situations where you would want to use the "set worker rallypoint" though, but like stated above, its hotkey needs to be changed.
IS IT REALLY TOO MUCH TO ASK YOU to pay more attention to w/e that is that ur doing in ur games? Why dont u take some time to learn how to play the game and practice 'till ur good at it instead of asking Blizzard to make unreasonable changes to the game making it absurdly, ridiculously EZ for u to play.
"SKILL" <--- does that ring any bell? 
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I don't see how you can deny this being a problem. As soon as you're out of larvaes this will happen.
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OK, The MAJ+F hotkey is really anoying when playing toos (F is forge, fleat beacon, force field).
And MAJ+F is center the screnn on selected unit.
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I hate this conflict, im really really surprised it didn't get changed during patch 11 and hasnt gotten much attention. I'm always sending my workers somewhere random, really need to fix it
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This happens to me all the time. Just yesterday I ended up with 5 drones sitting at my opponent's ramp on steppes of war. They didn't die, but I could've certainly used the mining time.
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this is clearly an issue. change roach hotkey.
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On May 08 2010 20:12 danbel1005 wrote:Show nested quote +[B]On May 08 2010 08:28 Ovi wrote:
Ok some people might not think this actually is a problem. Let me explain a scenario where this hotkey conflict is an issue. Lets say you as a zerg have 8 hatcherys with 4 queens. That will produce alot of larva, and lets say its a real intense part of the game and you simply want to make as many roaches as u can as fast as possible, u will obviously "spam" S R to do this (and it makes sense to spam S R since new larva will spawn every second when you produce such an amount of larva). Once you run out of larva you will end up selecting the worker rallypoint. You will most likely not notice this since you did this unintentionally and you might then end up clicking the worker rallypoint out in the middle of the battlefield. This is not something you want happening. Fixing this is not harder then simply changing the hotkey for the feature noone even uses anyways as of now, the "set worker rallypoint". Zergs simply rightclick on minerals patches/gas structures to set worker rallypoints instead of using the "R" hotkey for it. There are some situations where you would want to use the "set worker rallypoint" though, but like stated above, its hotkey needs to be changed. IS IT REALLY TOO MUCH TO ASK YOU to pay more attention to w/e that is that ur doing in ur games? Why dont u take some time to learn how to play the game and practice 'till ur good at it instead of asking Blizzard to make unreasonable changes to the game making it absurdly, ridiculously EZ for u to play. "SKILL" <--- does that ring any bell?
I think this guy has to be a troll.. I will respond as if he wasnt though
Its about perfecting a game that might last for a decade. This game will be played so much its just a matter of time when this hotkey conflict will get fixed. It should have been fixed along with the other hotkey conflicts that recently got fixed in patch 11.
Yes, as a zerg you must adapt to this right now in your play. But this is such an unnecessary problem and if you find yourself in a situation where you want to make alot of roaches quickly and constantly over a period of time you will end up wasting apm/time/energy in handling the hotkey conflict, as in constantly having to notice if you have selected the worker rally and then rightclick to deselect it (and worst case scenario you click the rallypoint by mistake and send out drones to the midle of the map). Look noone is saying this is a huge problem, but it is a problem (and like already stated a very unnecessary one), and it has a very simple solution (change worker rallypoint hotkey to a hotkey that isnt also a hotkey of a unit). And quite frankly hotkey conflicts of lesser importance prepatch 11 got fixed, this one did not.
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The whole notion of Blizzard fixing the ventral sacks upgrade, shows that blizzard acknowledges the problem of spamming S-V without larva present. Therefore, also should acknowledge that this is a similar issue with the same problematic hotkeys that zerg have had (V for ventral and overlord, and R for roach and worker rally).
Also..is there anyone...srsly anyone who uses R to rally his workers somewhere?
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On May 09 2010 01:15 Erucious wrote:
Also..is there anyone...srsly anyone who uses R to rally his workers somewhere?
No. People simply use the rightclick button to set worker rallypoints =P Thats why this hotkey conflict is so blatantly unnecessary..
There are some situations where you want to be able to use a hotkey for worker rallypoint though. Obviously if you want to be able to set a worker rallypoint at a point which isnt a mineral patch/gas structure, for example if you have an expansion going up but you dont want to rallypoint at minerals because that would have the drones starting mining, and if your timing is off you obviously dont want the drones to start mining before that exp is up.
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I have this problem and would very much like to have it fixed (move to the "w" key should fix it - thats on AZERTY)
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Are Zerg the most picked on race or what...
A simple UI annoyance is requested to get fixed like other races have had, and we pretty much get: STFU L2P
Jesus Christ....
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Yea this problem definitely exists it happens to me every now and then but fortunately not as often as the ventral sacs hotkey that they just fixed this patch so thats good.
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Happens to me a lot, I always spam 5sr6sr during roach timing attacks because I have the apm to do so, and later I'll see workers rallying into their army.
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EPT
