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On April 27 2010 11:52 Dr.Frost wrote:
I can do moving shot with mutas and corruptors quite easily, the mechanic is different than sc1 but it works. I agree with some of the stuff in this post but not most of the micro stuff.. There is so much micro in this game and TLO has shown us some of the potential, there is still more to be discovered but therree is a lot we have already found out. I am not trying to be mean but it seems like this guy needs to really sit and practice some micro techniques
Hi,
could you explain how to do it or at least give a hint?
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Problem is game speed... play a game in fast and not faster and you will have plentty of time to micro. SC2 is just too fast for so many units that participate in a battle.
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I guess you have a point with this article, but I dont like how you handled the valkyrie vs corsair thing. To me it seems obvious that the main reason that corsairs where used to harass overlords and valkyries weren't (they actually were, its just really uncommon), is that corsairs can outrun scourge (with the proper turn-micro) for ever, and therefor nearly always get to safety at the nearest cannon/goon. Valkyries however can't outrun anything, so you cannot move out with one or two valkyries and hope to get them to safety if you meet scourge.
Otherwise a great read. I certainly hope that blizzard thinks of this. And please try not to imagine blizzard as a company that i trying its best to cheat you out of a great game, they are OF COURSE trying to make a great game - why would they try to make a bad game?
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United Kingdom12025 Posts
On April 27 2010 17:55 MorroW wrote:
i think it would be a good idea to let air attack while moving like they could in sc1. now u cant hunt micro at all and that was one of the major micro parts of air vs air in sc1
I think the trouble is morrow, is if you change it to implement that it would shift the balance of all air units completely and you'd have to rebalance everything.
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right now it seems that micro is mostly just proper target firing, and army splits. By army splits I mean avoiding AoE units and moves such as psionic storm, hunter seeker missle, and banelings.
if better micro implemented in sc2 we might see early game units stick around longer, usually lings just become meat sheilds that make up a very small useless portion of your army by lair tech (they need a dps boost bad, or make the adreniline glands like 30-40% faster). I hardly ever see a zealot after toss gets a robo (though you didn't see too many in sc1 either, though I hate to compare the two). While as noted above the hellion becomes out of use because the other two are as well.
I don't necessarily think the corrupter should have it's energy removed, because feed back needs to be useful somehow (now they just need to do that to emp). Also in rare cases it's ability is really useful to harrass, such as shutting down a few turrets while mutas go to work, or in one game a T player built his rax way too close to the edge, and I constantly went over with a few corrupters and shut down his production for 30 seconds, pretty sure it won me the game, as when I looked later he stock piled mins during this time.
Who knows once people figure out builds more it may be extremely useful to corrupt-snipe a building to delay something to make an opening, or prevent a timing push. It seems to me like a powerful ability once builds, and meta game become a bit more standardized and figured out.
Though with how the hot topics of forums being "OMFG PHEONIX'S SUCK!!!111!!!" I think it may get a damage boost soon (or they could return move shot, pssh like that'll ever happen)
Though I am straying, nice read with some very viable points.
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Great read, awesome write-up!
The article points out the main flaws with micro in SC2 and includes tongue-in-cheek insults pointed at Blizzard. It's not like he is flaming them, it's more like... 'polite' criticism to get the point sent across =).
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i agree... needs more micro... micro in sc1 was very nice to watch
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One of the top 5 Article in the SC2-Beta so far. I hope some Blizzard employees read this!
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While this is my first post on TL.net i hope it doesn't get completely overlooked.
SC2 does have a kind of "clump and A move" feel to it, and style is more defined in BO than Micro, but it would be amazing to see it put back into the game.
Moving shot seems like the epitome of freedom of movement, which is what can often define a player's "control." Blizzard seems to have a very specific goal in mind with each unit they created without allowing players to create their own roles for units to fulfill.
Great read and i hope it causes a reaction from the community and blizzard to start thinking about the hardcore competitors gameplay instead of just the competitive community's gameplay.
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Very impressive writing and I agree with everything you wrote.
But we all know that starcraft 2 is here to stay as it is, in it's "pop" form where D+ players can have an even match with B 
Blizzard wants their game to be as successful as possible and making it "easier" seems to be the best way.
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but guys! if they make micro harder you will be D- noobs again >:D
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Its a fundamental problem and not just micro, its in other parts in game as well.
This focus on "cool units" was wrong approuch from day 1.
Even the "coolness" what they were so keen to accomplish is gone through balancing.
I mean what happened to corruptor, bc, phoenix, lurkers etc. They were all cut from their original abilitys.
This is a fundamental flaw, fixing it will be too costly, as the realease date draws near.
I excpect only cosmetic changes.
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good work lalush, someone should get blizzard to read this and understand that this need fixing if they ever plan for SC2 to become as great as SC:BW
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On April 27 2010 18:32 scAre wrote:
Its a fundamental problem and not just micro, its in other parts in game as well.
This focus on "cool units" was wrong approuch from day 1.
Even the "coolness" what they were so keen to accomplish is gone through balancing.
I mean what happened to corruptor, bc, phoenix, lurkers etc. They were all cut from their original abilitys.
This is a fundamental flaw, fixing it will be too costly, as the realease date draws near.
I excpect only cosmetic changes.
Remember the Soul Hunter? Man that was terrible.
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I can't help but feel that a lot of the people who 100% disagree w/ the OP didn't play BW long enough or competitively enough to genuinely appreciate the mechanics and the extremely high ceiling on the game.
I kind of chuckle each time I hear "oh but there is micro! different micro!"
Speed hydra micro in BW essentially sums up of all the types of micro in SC2, nothing special
anybody can micro hydras if they were trying
Micro in BW is everything SC2 is plus so so much more
I have yet to see a micro game/maneuver where I'll gasp and admit "i can't do that and probably never will be able to do as effectively as he"
A great majority of the micro in sc2 is extremely easy and takes no practice whatsoever to perfect.
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excellent read, tuk me half hour just to read it >_< but yeah, bw was a very difference paced game and micro was the spotlight of it.
Which seperated the the average players from the good.
havent actually played sc2 yet, but seen alot of vods/replays and to what i can see or figure out, its not massively micro intensive, but seems to be build orders, and macro heavy, and a good comparisition of units.
I was a C player back in the day of wgtour, and my macro was decent my micro was average, why i didnt advance any further.
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On April 27 2010 18:41 billyX333 wrote:
I can't help but feel that a lot of the people who 100% disagree w/ the OP didn't play BW long enough or competitively enough to genuinely appreciate the mechanics and the extremely high ceiling on the game.
I kind of chuckle each time I hear "oh but there is micro! different micro!"
Speed hydra micro in BW essentially sums up of all the types of micro in SC2, nothing special
anybody can micro hydras if they were trying
Micro in BW is everything SC2 is plus so so much more
I have yet to see a micro game/maneuver where I'll gasp and admit "i can't do that and probably never will be able to do as effectively as he"
A great majority of the micro in sc2 is extremely easy and takes no practice whatsoever to perfect.
I don't know what you classify as 100% disagreement, but Nony very strongly disagreed with the OP. What numerical value you will attribute to that I'm not sure.
Then again, maybe Nony haven't played enough BW, and/or on a high enough level for your taste.
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" Many people throughout these years we’ve enjoyed with Starcraft have argued the stance that Blizzard managing to balance Starcraft as well as they did must have been a fluke of cosmic proportions. "
what?
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On April 27 2010 18:49 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2010 18:41 billyX333 wrote:
I can't help but feel that a lot of the people who 100% disagree w/ the OP didn't play BW long enough or competitively enough to genuinely appreciate the mechanics and the extremely high ceiling on the game.
I kind of chuckle each time I hear "oh but there is micro! different micro!"
Speed hydra micro in BW essentially sums up of all the types of micro in SC2, nothing special
anybody can micro hydras if they were trying
Micro in BW is everything SC2 is plus so so much more
I have yet to see a micro game/maneuver where I'll gasp and admit "i can't do that and probably never will be able to do as effectively as he"
A great majority of the micro in sc2 is extremely easy and takes no practice whatsoever to perfect.
I don't know what you classify as 100% disagreement, but Nony very strongly disagreed with the OP. What numerical value you will attribute to that I'm not sure. Then again, maybe Nony haven't played enough BW, and/or on a high enough level for your taste.
... he even said he agreed about the moving attack but disliked the tone of the post
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EPT
