EPT[April] SC2 General Discussion - Page 3
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On April 27 2010 08:11 NeoScout wrote: do you like the fluid-like physics of the game (aesthetically speaking), like when there are 100 zergling or sentries and move like water? it looks pretty cool, imo. but it's even funnier gameplay-wise when i had a zerg opponent take 79 lings, run them into my zealots + archons and have them all just melt in seconds. he left soon after  | ||
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Breadwinner
United States17 Posts
One of the things that makes BW such a great game is the incredible degree of differentation between the three races. However, even taking that into account, there are still certain constants across the board. One such constant is the presence of an invisible harrassment unit at similar tech levels from all three races. I am talking about the Lurker, the DT, and a cloaked wraith. These units are particular in that, if you chose to skip over detection, it was very easy to just lose games if your opponent rushed for these units. As a beginner player, learning to take advantage of this element, and then learning to defend against it, learning to build buildings or units I didn't want to build, like an observer, so that I wouldn't just lose to "cheese;" this was a really important lesson. SC2 has preserved some of this tension. I'm sure we have all seen how effective darktemplars can be, and cloaked banshees are even more frightening than wraiths ever were, with their powerful attack and the loss of standard overlord detection. In TvP, Terran players are now, like every beginner before them, being forced to adjust their play from a purely speed/economical perspective, forgoing constant mules in order to have a reserve of energy for scans. But what happened to the Lurker? More than being upset about the loss of a great unit, I am upset that Zerg no longer has any method of exploiting the detection weaknesses of very greedy players. Burrow, in addition to requiring research, does not put immediate pressure on the opponent. As Zerg stands right now, there is no pressure on their opponents to get detection, so Terran players can happily mule away, and observers, if they are made, can be sent right to the opponents base without having to worry about keeping one back home to defend. I think that the loss of this tension is hugely detrimental to Zerg as a race, but also to the overall balance of the game. What do you guys think? Do you think that the fundamental balance of having an aggressive invisible unit in each race should be preserved in SC2? How could we best implement such a unit and what should that unit look like? | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On April 27 2010 11:18 FrozenArbiter wrote: At least I can say I didn't completely miss a month LOL It should definitely not cost less than the SC1 tank... I can see cutting the gas cost by 25 to 100 but more than that seems iffy to me, especially as Blizzard want it to be a more support oriented unit. Oh and if you were to up the roach to 2 supply, the hydra would have to become 1 supply again (and be weaker) or zerg wouldn't be zerg  ha for some reason i thought they were 100 gas and still not working, cutting them to 100 i think would make them used alot again. well basically you dont have to nerf the roach, it might just be because im 14~ gold league atm, but stalkers are awful vs roaches,and you can only hope FF lasts so long, since immortals take longer to get out than roaches(terran doesnt have the anti roach problem as bad i dont think cus mauraders are lower on the tech tree) maybe make immortals build quicker? even with chronoboost i have trouble getting them out to save my ass vs heavy roach builds, or buff stalkers a bit or something idk.. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On April 27 2010 11:41 arb wrote: ha for some reason i thought they were 100 gas and still not working, cutting them to 100 i think would make them used alot again. well basically you dont have to nerf the roach, it might just be because im 14~ gold league atm, but stalkers are awful vs roaches,and you can only hope FF lasts so long, since immortals take longer to get out than roaches(terran doesnt have the anti roach problem as bad i dont think cus mauraders are lower on the tech tree) maybe make immortals build quicker? even with chronoboost i have trouble getting them out to save my ass vs heavy roach builds, or buff stalkers a bit or something idk.. well the immortals build time just got changed from 40 to I think 55 seconds and as a random player I think thats a good thing, chrono boosted immortals were always done ridiculously fast. If youre having so much trouble with the roach rush then maybe you should just try to hold them off with force fields, though theres surely lots of better players than me who could give better more precise advice on how to hold them off. Keep on mind however, that if hes roach rushing hes not gonna have a great economy and youll be fine as long as you survive. I also always thought that the immortal shield would be nerfed so that tanks at least do a little bit more damage to them. But then I listened to the 3rd state of the game podcast where our dear OP jinro said that immortals are actually not the problem for him when he goes mech, but the mobile units, which actually surprised me quite a bit. But yeah I also think that gas cost of 100 would be better. It still wouldnt make them "necessary in every game" (which is something blizzard doesn't want them to be) but would make them more viable as an option. P.S. Frozenarbiter could you elaborate on why you dont think immortals are that much of a problem in mech TvP? | ||
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PineappleSage
Canada109 Posts
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Skvid
Lithuania751 Posts
Anyway main things im interested in: Whats the resource+ gas gain per... lets say 1 minute on a fully saturated mineral line and 3 guys on both gas, because i keep ending up starwing on gas and floating a ton of minerals as terran. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3105 Posts
That used map settings was so much fun in the original. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
P.S. Frozenarbiter could you elaborate on why you dont think immortals are that much of a problem in mech TvP? Sure. First of all - ghosts; immortals without shields are not scary. Second, Immortals have range 5 so they don't actually do that hot when there's a huge mass of tanks and hellions out. Marines also do a fine job of removing immortal shields in the early game. The problem for terran mech is basically that you cannot re-deploy to deal with harass at all - siege tanks take forever to siege and if all you manage to do is siege 3-4 tanks in range of the colossi he snuck into your main, he'll just kill them while they are sieging up, otherwise run away. | ||
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prosky
Poland83 Posts
On April 27 2010 07:02 Dionyseus wrote: They still haven't fixed that? wow... Personally I'm dissapointed that there's still no way to browse/search the ladder in-game, and that they made adding friends even harder now (works only with opponents you played). What do you mean by that? I find adding friends the same as it was in prev. patches ;o | ||
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AlgeriaT
Sweden2197 Posts
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TheTuna
United States286 Posts
I'd love that. :D Also, I'm extremely pleased you can finally view profile after matches now. And /dance with Thors is just great. | ||
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Skvid
Lithuania751 Posts
On April 28 2010 03:42 AlgeriaT wrote: Am I the only one who thinks that the sentry looks kind of stupid and out of place? Even its black matter beam or wtf ever it is, it just looks unfinished somehow. Yea im not particularly fond of units art design as well. | ||
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AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
Even though most units are more mobile than their counter part in broodwar, for some reason the game doesn't seem to be "moving" as much. If you were to watch a broodwar game's minimap, you'd constantly see movement of entire armies, small groups of armies moving back and forth, even at low levels of play. E.G. dragoons constantly walk around the map clearing mines, vultures going running around the map looking for expansions and laying mines. In SC2 I'm just not seeing small troop movements so far. Even in higher level games it's always "mass up a ball of units them move out with the ball of units". We never see groups of 10-12 units just moving around the map for scouting/checking expansions. Map control in SC1 meant the ability to move around the map freely, and you can easily see from the minimap who has map control. Map control in SC2 means the ability to expand freely, but for some reason I just don't see the amount of troop movement I see in SC1. This is all considering mobility is greatly increased in SC2 meaning troops should be moving around MORE. I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this or I'm just weird | ||
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Genesis Brood
United States193 Posts
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bakedace
United States672 Posts
On April 27 2010 06:45 space_yes wrote: 1. I really don't like how my mouse cursor is placed at some random place when game starts. I liked how it was on the command center in sc1 .. really annoying. 2. MBS - I like MBS and I'm getting used to it. but when I select both types of barracks (with tech lab and with core), and I press "DDDAAAAA" it doesn't organize itself to make marines in the barracks with core and marauders in the barracks with tech lab. Instead, it makes marauders and marines all in one barracks.. 3. I really like the new graphics and the ladder system 4. fuck one base muta, one base all in lings try using tab  | ||
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DreaM)XeRO
Korea (South)4667 Posts
On April 27 2010 06:17 Mutaahh wrote: I want to see remakes of the following formats - Golem - Evolves - Magic the Gathering - DBZ rpg - Zone Control - Hydra Rancher - Starship Troopers - Tug o War (or something like that) - Sims map - Original turret defense - Team Micro Arena - SCV Football that its for now, any additions? yes | ||
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omgCRAZY
Canada551 Posts
On April 27 2010 07:11 7mk wrote: I dont know for sure but I would definitely say that it's considered a building. Yes I have been in this scenario in a custom game and it is considered a building. | ||
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lilwisper
United States2515 Posts
On April 28 2010 04:31 AssuredVacancy wrote: I'm too tired to make a whole topic on this point, but this is something that urks me since the beginning of beta. Even though most units are more mobile than their counter part in broodwar, for some reason the game doesn't seem to be "moving" as much. If you were to watch a broodwar game's minimap, you'd constantly see movement of entire armies, small groups of armies moving back and forth, even at low levels of play. E.G. dragoons constantly walk around the map clearing mines, vultures going running around the map looking for expansions and laying mines. In SC2 I'm just not seeing small troop movements so far. Even in higher level games it's always "mass up a ball of units them move out with the ball of units". We never see groups of 10-12 units just moving around the map for scouting/checking expansions. Map control in SC1 meant the ability to move around the map freely, and you can easily see from the minimap who has map control. Map control in SC2 means the ability to expand freely, but for some reason I just don't see the amount of troop movement I see in SC1. This is all considering mobility is greatly increased in SC2 meaning troops should be moving around MORE. I'm not sure if anyone else noticed this or I'm just weird I believe that due to the units in general being more mobile leads to many folks fearing a backdoor attack. I believe there was a lot of buzz about how brutal reapers were going to be, until the beta came and reapers were not as bad as once thought. This mobility, especially of harrasing units, would cause people to hunker down and defend smaller areas more stringently. Defending less map area would mean less troop movement. | ||
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Axonn
Croatia287 Posts
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