EPTIt's like if your name is Jim and, after viewing someone eat some elephant shit, your friend turned to you and said "lol what a Jim." Then when you got offended claimed "oh no, the context wasn't trying to relate it to you, Jim's just a word I use to describe stupid people. Nothing to do with you Jim." On the same token by using "nigger" you may not be at all describing or relating it to black people, but you mean it in a negative way and that word unfortunately DOES relate to black people.
[Show] Weapon of Choice - 7:00 PM EDT - Page 45
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Curu
Canada2817 Posts
It's like if your name is Jim and, after viewing someone eat some elephant shit, your friend turned to you and said "lol what a Jim." Then when you got offended claimed "oh no, the context wasn't trying to relate it to you, Jim's just a word I use to describe stupid people. Nothing to do with you Jim." On the same token by using "nigger" you may not be at all describing or relating it to black people, but you mean it in a negative way and that word unfortunately DOES relate to black people. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:09 -_- wrote: I wanted to watch a Starcraft 2 show, but ended up hearing a discussion about philology. That conversation was innapropriate for the show, and the panelists and callers were unqualified to dicsuss to topic at hand. I just wanted to hear people better than me at Starcraft 2 talk about Starcraft 2. You and me alike. | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:12 Pekkz wrote: How incontrol joins in to suddently act as the offence police is really ironic, considering he prolly has offended more people in his sc career, then any of the other streamers/casters. And he's taken a fucking lot of flak for it. If anything he has experience with the issues at hand. Compare today's Incontrol to the Incontrol a year ago. | ||
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TheSwamp
United States1497 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:08 bobshoby wrote: I'd love you to answer this Destiny, i have some sympathy to your viewpoint but i think it doesn't take account of the context in a lot of these cases. IE why is it that amongst a community which is primarily young, straight males the reflex insult of choices is a homosexual slur? Our generation grew up with fag meaning stupid or lame. You aren't going to instantly change years of habit because some random person got offended. It usually takes something close to home to make an adjustment like that. My brother is gay and when I found out, I stopped using fag etc. Then, I heard him call an overly flamboyant guy a fag. It has no power unless you give it power. | ||
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Phenny
Australia1435 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:09 Squalish wrote: Kind of sad only Incontrol was really against Destiny's remarks. He didn't even take a really strong stance against them though. Not only can these words be offensive to a very few people, but it turns people like me off from the show because it's completely unprofessional and you guys should already have a stance against that behavior. Destiny: get a clue It's just a different opinion to yours bro, you (and other people who agree with your pov) aren't ~right~, destiny (and those who side with him) are not ~right~, people see shit differently to other people m8. | ||
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Oreo7
United States1647 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:12 Pekkz wrote: How incontrol joins in to suddently act as the offence police is really ironic, considering he prolly has offended more people in his sc career, then any of the other streamers/casters. Yeah, I gotta agree, while I don't necessarily think either party is in the wrong, Inc coming on and calling people racist is kind of ironic and hypocritical. | ||
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Snoyarc
United States101 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:02 JackhammerIV wrote: Well... 1. Racist context: Offensive to call someone a nigger/nigga. Considered racist. Rooted in slavery, etc. 2. As an alternative to bro/dude/etc: Usually only acceptable between two African American people. Or in some cases between an African American person and his/her close friend (but with the African American person's prior consent). I haven't seen the Weapons of choice for today, i'm waiting for the vod to go up, But I hate when a group of people try and own a word, Gay people with the word Faggot, Black people with the word Nigger etc. The way I look at it, if they are allowed to use it, I am just because I don't like having sex with men shouldn't mean I can't use the word Faggot, and just because I am not black shouldn't mean I can't use the word Nigger. | ||
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Kazang
578 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:08 bobshoby wrote: I'd love you to answer this Destiny, i have some sympathy to your viewpoint but i think it doesn't take account of the context in a lot of these cases. IE why is it that amongst a community which is primarily young, straight males the reflex insult of choices is a homosexual slur? Because a straight man doesn't like being thought of as gay. That should be fairly obvious. Just like saying "stop acting like a little girl" is an insult to a grown man, not an insult to a little girl. Reflex insult among girls is often to call one another a slut or a whore, because most girls don't like being referred to as that. Not exactly deep social thinking here. | ||
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hollabackk
118 Posts
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bobshoby
Australia13 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:10 zeru wrote: Because it is on all of the internet, and RL too? Widespread cultural homophobia is hardly an excuse for the SC2 community making the same mistakes. The more people learn that words like that can have negative repercussions and that it's better not to use them in that way the closer we'll get to eliminating these sorts of issues. | ||
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Rasva_Pallo
Finland126 Posts
Incontrol argumented that these 2 words are offensive to some people but so are some "common" curse words, some people feel offended when they hear any curse words anywhere so why it's ok to Destiny to offend these people? Btw I don't like Destiny's stream mostly because I don't find him entertaining (I'm not big fan of using lots of curse words because I think it's not cool or funny it's just boring). I can understand Incontrol feels that this thing is important but I don't think his approach was too effective  coming on so agressive he made Destiny to take defensive position in the discussion. Instead coming on with attitude to first understand why Destiny feels like he needs to use specific words would have been good for the conversation imo.Anyway I enjoyed the episode I loved the topic and that people were mannered GJ | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:14 Snoyarc wrote: I haven't seen the Weapons of choice for today, i'm waiting for the vod to go up, But I hate when a group of people try and own a word, Gay people with the word Faggot, Black people with the word Nigger etc. The way I look at it, if they are allowed to use it, I am just because I don't like having sex with men shouldn't mean I can't use the word Faggot, and just because I am not black shouldn't mean I can't use the word Nigger. I don't think you're alone on this, but I do think you missed the big picture. No one should be using these words for insulting purposes, they're just not right to say like that. | ||
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Pezo
England156 Posts
There's a time and a place for this this sort of debate and sure im not the only one that plays computer games (i.e. SC) as source of escapism from the real world and this sort of rubbish | ||
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Odoakar
Croatia1835 Posts
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toadyy
United Kingdom179 Posts
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zeru
8156 Posts
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starmeat_
105 Posts
Anyone? Destiny? Surely using Destiny's logic, it's just a word describing something that happened ~70 years ago. Again, using Destiny's logic, none of the few young Jewish people watching the stream would understand, and according to Destiny 'it's just a word, people need to get over it'. There are a lot of people who know rape victims, have black grandparents who remember when life sucked. These words (the N word, the word 'rape') is part of their life, it triggers memories and stories told by people about horrible times pre-civil rights movement and memories about being raped. It is naive to think that it is ok to use these words on a stream. To be honest I feel these words shouldn't be used off stream, but people may disagree with me on this. | ||
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bistri
Croatia72 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:13 vyyye wrote: And he's taken a fucking lot of flak for it. If anything he has experience with the issues at hand. Compare today's Incontrol to the Incontrol a year ago. here is the best comparison. but the difference is that he insulted on person level, kelly milikes, total biscuit,etc etc (list is way long) and he continues to do it with his "not so funny european" jokes packed in a fine packagind. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:15 bobshoby wrote: Widespread cultural homophobia is hardly an excuse for the SC2 community making the same mistakes. The more people learn that words like that can have negative repercussions and that it's better not to use them in that way the closer we'll get to eliminating these sorts of issues. calling someone a fag isnt homophobia though. words always have and always will change meaning over time as they get used in different contexts. holding on to words like fag as homophobia just comes across as people looking to get pissed off so they can start drama. | ||
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[-]Ocelot[-]
United States256 Posts
On May 30 2011 03:15 hollabackk wrote: There is simply no way to appease everyone who is watching a stream. If someone got beat over the head with a book when they were younger does that mean i can't say book anymore because it bring back bad memories? Words can have a stronger meaning to certain people, and i recognize that. However, it would be impossible to censor yourself to all of the words, and even if it was, would you want to? I don't think suppressing your speech could ever be a solution to something, and a world where people are afraid of which word is politically correct is...well hmm i can't seem to find the word i want to use here. No one thinks you can spare everyone. However, as InControl said there are certain "lightning rod" words.. two in particular are "nigger" and "faggot". Why? Well- I'll copy and past a previous comment that sums it up amazingly. Curu When you say "nigger" or "faggot" you mean it in a negative and insulting way. Those words also just so happen to be ones to describe a group that people may belong to. The context IS insulting. It's like if your name is Jim and, after viewing someone eat some elephant shit, your friend turned to you and said "lol what a Jim." Then when you got offended claimed "oh no, the context wasn't trying to relate it to you, Jim's just a word I use to describe stupid people. Nothing to do with you Jim." On the same token by using "nigger" you may not be at all describing or relating it to black people, but you mean it in a negative way and that word unfortunately DOES relate to black people. | ||
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