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Even just playing tanks is so much more funs than those gimpy marauders/marines 
I think "traditional" BW Mech play was slowing down the game alot. The existence of mines (apart from the fact that they surely were a huge and cool micro factor for both players!) and strong Siege Tanks gave Terrans the possibility to rely on a good defense and delaying/harassing the enemy with vultures so they didn't need to mass up their army like they need in SC2 now.
Imagine that Hellions could plant mines and Siegetanks were stronger.
Terran would not need to mass up alot of marauders because he can gain more map controll with hellions and mines and delay the opponent when he tries to attack and does not need 41894914 units to defend his base when good positioned tanks are a huge factor. Terran could play other tactics than lots and lots and more of marauders, such as composing an army with higher tech units early on (Ravens!) or trying to expand further while gaining map control. Also, Mines & Tanks would make both players requiring so much more micro than MMM.
I think that units such as Lurkers, Siegetanks and Spider Mines are so iconic nowadays because they defined the way broodwar was played by a great part, which was much more complex than SC2 without its lack of defensive bonus which induces the constant fear of beeing overrun, what leads to every player massing up his army instead of playing innovative or complex strategies as it became hard to delay or defend with an even slightly weaker army.
My guess is that former BW players connect this style of gameplay with terran mech and wish both of them back.
Actually, I do so, too 
Sorry if I made mistakes when referring to Broodwar, I'm not an experienced player but these are the experiences I made with playing and watching it. Actually I rather know a bit more about WC3 where you also couldn't just walk over your opponent just because you had a small advantage for a moment like you can in SC2.
Also sorry if I repeated some things that might have been posted before but it took me quite some time to put my finger on this specific "lack of defense" thingy that makes the big flaw that SC2 has in my opinion (after reading among other things the "where is the high ground advantage?" article on TL).
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In SC2 it seems like massing infantry for every race is basically the only viable option. Mech should be the primary army for all races, and infantry the support, not the other way around. Bio-ball past the 12 minute mark should get dominated, not continue to be viable.
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On April 06 2010 23:55 Reborn8u wrote:
Maybe because mech in BW TvP is horribly imba! People can argue against this all day but the fact (haha) that they removed vultures added immortals and increased tank cost in SC2 says it all. I mean the facts are that in BW TvP there are several things I find absurd.
1. Terran can be down a base and be equal, allowing them to camp and not over extend themselves, then move one the Toss's expos and put him behind.
2. The vulture is like a zealot, if the zealot cost less, built twice as fast, had ranged attack and started with 3 scarab shots and speed.
3. Detection and scouting- the Terran can scan 8 times off two bases while he camps. Meanwhile the obs requires gate,cyber,robo,obs to make the scan is rax, acad, scan ( 50 gas for 1st scan almost 400 gas for 1st obs!)
4. One of the few hard counters to vulture tank is carriers and it's so easily shut down by goliaths, that build in no time, have huge range, are cheap, and get double damage increase for each upgrade. Compared to carriers which build slow and cost a ton just to get the 1st one out and full
5. In battle the Terran can sit on his ass and kill an army twice the size, the protoss has to outnumber, outmaneuver, outmicro and out tech to kill the terran ball. ( Can toss hope to compete vs terran in a tier 2 vs tier 2 fight?)
6. The Terran has turrets, scans, and science vessels for detection compared to cannons and obs.
7. EMP- losing all shields and energy..... ridiculous (and the thing that shoots it detects)
8. Upgrades- Mech needs a factory, add on, and armory for upgrades but to fight this army count how many buildings a toss has to make.... gateway,cyber, forge, robo, obs, adun, (and probably support bay, temp archive as well!)
9. One of the most effective counters to mech is the zeolot (or DT) bomb. This really says it all, the damage on mines and tanks is so high your best way to fight them is to cause friendly fire!
(nony and idra met in the tsl twice, how many times did nony beat him late game? How often does flash loose late game tvp?)
Add all this up and you have the reason why mech is gone, and I'm so happy to hear all you mech heads whine for your imba back. Sucks to have to fight toss in a fair fight huh! Have fun with reaper cheese dirtbags. lol
In other words, what SC2 is missing is what BW had, Protoss had expensive powerful units, Terran had mech, Zerg had massive numbers. In SC2 Protoss has expensive, not so powerful units, Terran has Marauder/Banshee/Viking/Medevac/Marine, and Zerg has massive numbers. Clearly something is missing.
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in my terran player opinion, it's all about identity... the siege tank was probably the unit that made terran identity on bw, and because of this unit some of us (terran players) have chosen to play terran.
on the other hand, we have sc2 and the pretty "useless" siege tank, or mech in general, when i say useless i mean in army core way, i still think siege tanks are a great support unit.
I think that the main problem involving this is that the TvP matchup is totelly different in sc2, and that us a problem because most bw terran players want to play terran as well in sc2, and if 1 out of 2 matchups is totally diferent, they feel like they'd lost their identity ...
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because going maruaders in all 3 matchups is retarded and boring? mech is the #1 reason y tvp (in btw) was such an epic matchup to watch. all the tactical positioning, flanking, zealot dropping, mine dragging was just o so epic. now it's just all, LUL marudader kiting
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On April 06 2010 04:42 Zaqwert wrote:
Mass of any tier should be viable, with support from any other tier, depending on circumstances...
What do you mean by this? Are you identifying tiers with tech level (Barracks - Factory - Starport) or with types of units (Bio - Mech - Air)?
And when you say "mass of a tier" what kind of army are you imagining? How many kinds of units are forming the base, and with what support?
In SC:BW by mid-game most armies have mainly of 2 types of units (tank/vult, zeal/goon, muta/ling are all classic examples) with any other unit around being built for support, scouting, or drop. This "model" makes for solid gameplay as we've seen, but it's that way not because Blizzard said, "We need diverse armies". The game got that way because with lots of kinds of units possible to build, armies need to be able to deal with multiple threats. A base composition of two units is the easiest to balance while meeting threats sufficiently, so that's why those compositions dominate. It's not set it stone: for example TvP can expand to a composition of vult/tank/goliath vs zeal/goon/carrier, which are both 3-unit bases, and ZvZ mostly uses a 1-unit mutalisk base composition.
You can talk about how diversity is valuable - and a game like SC:BW where unusual compositions can still be a change-of-pace option is great - but in the end, there is simply going to be no way to balance the game and not reduce options for matchups. If you have, say, 3 army composition possibilities for each race, too many builds will hard-counter too many other builds, and eventually safe compromise builds will be found and come into general use, and these will tend to use a limited "safe" composition of units.
This is not to say that it wouldn't be neat to see "mech builds" be viable again in TvP, just that it's not necessary.
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Mech was, and still kinda is, one of the defining racial identities of Terran.
As well, if you look at Brood War TvZ, while bio is the standard play, mech is still an option. How viable is largely map dependent, although I think if you ask SkyHigh he'd say it's always viable  It's always entertaining to try and figure out what a Terran is doing (and how the Zerg is responding)- and to just consider that alone you've got so many mind games that pop up because of where T can go that all add depth and suspense from a spectator PoV as well. And then beyond that, you just have so many variations on how the game goes, because you pretty much at a bare minimum have two different metagame sets for just "one" match-up.
Anyway, imo if at least TvP and TvZ for SC2 could have that kinda depth and variability, that would be awesome and the ideal. TvT I don't mind if it's just mech and/or air (although I really don't want to see it be all bio since there is no melee component of the Terran army at all atm in SC2, not even the token Firebats, so bio TvT I find to be... not very interesting; also, I actually like SC1 TvT a lot xD).
Also, TvZ bio was imo way more fun than M&M&M balls in SC2 so there's that.
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People just are nostalgic about SC1 mech (some) but most people seem to want variety and not just mass marauder -> win.
but um, mech is viable in tvz, well, it really is the best thing you can do right now tbh. And mech tvp is viable once you are into mid-game, but now you have to mass marauder to attempt it otherwise 2-4 gate robo immortals/stalker/sentry/zealot will kill you if you went no bio with expo into mech.
and one thing prohibitive about mech is blizzard purposely making siege tanks incredibly expensive. What is it, 175 minerals, 125 gas, and 3 supply? too expensive compared to the ease of winning with marauders.
ghostmech takes a bit of knowledge of how to work into the build to play, where as simply massing 5000 marauders all you need to know is how to FE, do the build and click the marauder icon or D key.
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I just like watching and playing mech. Mech terran in sc1 was almost a completely different race, and i think it should stay similar in sc2
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It's not just the fanbase, blizz wants it too.
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Mech is awesome for 1 reason above all:
SIEGE TANKS BLOW SHIT UP!
That's why mech is awesome. Watching shit blow up.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
On April 06 2010 05:04 0neder wrote:
Mech is the glass cannon identity.
Mech catalyzes dynamic unit positioning and tactics.
Mech is big boom booms.
Mech is closest to traditional human warfare.
Mech is the antithesis of 'walk and shoot' infantry balls of all the races.
Mech makes for strong positional and map tension.
People want mech because it's inherently awesome. They want it to be not just barely viable in at least one or two matchups, but to be STRONG and a FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH.
MECH! MECH! MECH!
This. Mech TvP represents the best fucking thing about StarCraft and walking blobs of Marauders as a replacement is simply stupid.
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easy answer to the wrong question
i thought it was about the investment that goes into the types of units...
helions upgrade, siege upgrade, marine shield, stim pack, weapons upgrade, tech labs, reactors,
production buildings...
i thought it was more of a complaint that you get stuck going in one direction... unlike zerg where you just build 1 new building to open a whole new avenue. or toss who speed builds units in the cost of energy.
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On April 07 2010 14:44 avilo wrote:but um, mech is viable in tvz, well, it really is the best thing you can do right now tbh..
Not quite. Currently, to my knowledge (and I've been working on mech builds outside of TvT for quite a bit- I figure my sig indicates that well enough xD), there really is nothing that mech can do against Roach-spam without resorting to Marauders. Even with T and Z both on even bases, Z can produce plenty enough Roaches to overwhelm your pure mech or to at least win a war of attrition- just a matter of macro on the Zerg's part really. Add in that if Roaches are the primary composition of the Z's army then mech's go-to map control and harass unit (the Hellion) is significantly less effective in its task so maintaining equal bases is a tough affair (personally, I really only feel this is doable at all at the moment because most Z players don't see as much of a need to totally sim city because of Queens and the relative cheapness of Roaches) or requires investment in a decent amount of Banshees or Vikings to accomplish (meaning you'd sure as hell better get a lot out of your harass/contain efforts).
Basically, in TvZ mech, I've found it necessary to have at least two Tech 'raxes pumping Marauders to support my Siege Tanks to try and help deal with Roaches as there is just no mech solution to the issue that I've found. But I mean, imo, that just shouldn't be necessary. It's kinda like in mech TvZ in Brood War, none of your mech support are going to do a better job at keeping Zerglings off Siege Tanks than Firebats would, but good Tank positioning, good mine positioning, and sufficient Goliath and/or Vulture support to mop-up whatever Zerglings survive the Siege Tank shelling is usually sufficient. Similar to Zealots in ZvP where Vultures are great against Zealots but when your Vultures need to keep Zealots off Siege Tanks (aka Vultures can't really leverage their speed to kite), Firebats would arguably be a much more effective counter but sufficient Vultures and well-placed Spider Mines is usually sufficient. So far, I don't see any such solution for Roaches- a lot of Ravens with really well-placed Auto-Turrets along with Bunkers, Depots, Turrets, etc... on the frontlines are the closest I've come.
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Pure mech wouldn't be possible against Zerg because of Roaches. You will need Marauders.
Pure mech wouldn't be possible against Protoss because of Immortals. You will need Ghosts.
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whats the difference playing zerg and terran without mechs? both zerg and terran now put 50 units in a group and chase each other on map.
scII is a good game but playing style of 3 races are very similar. at least not different as bw.
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I love the idea of Pure mech being viable. But I don't want to see Mines return. They take away from the pace of the game. We need some kind of damage damage soaking unit between our tanks and the enemy. Preferably something with very low damage (so the tanks etc are still the primary damage unit in the mix) and enough maneuverability to make up for the lack of Tank maneuverability a little. Maybe something melee just for kicks.
Maybe some kind of upgrade for the SCV lol. Mineral and Gas cost and it rebuilds over 30 seconds or so. It is maybe double the size, with no build/repair facilities (maybe it can't even be repaired), higher health or armor but still the same or less damage.
Like the roach was in concept before they decided to make it a beasty killing machine.
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On April 07 2010 20:08 DeCoup wrote:
I love the idea of Pure mech being viable. But I don't want to see Mines return. They take away from the pace of the game. We need some kind of damage damage soaking unit between our tanks and the enemy. Preferably something with very low damage (so the tanks etc are still the primary damage unit in the mix) and enough maneuverability to make up for the lack of Tank maneuverability a little. Maybe something melee just for kicks.
Maybe some kind of upgrade for the SCV lol. Mineral and Gas cost and it rebuilds over 30 seconds or so. It is maybe double the size, with no build/repair facilities (maybe it can't even be repaired), higher health or armor but still the same or less damage.
Like the roach was in concept before they decided to make it a beasty killing machine.
I guess that would be some job for Marauders if they will ever find a suitable place within SC2 - A simple meatshield unit, just like now but without beeing the main source of damage.
Also (as I stated a few posts above), I think the pace of the game is what makes many players wishing back mech - apart from the really cool feeling of playing an army of tanks - because BW mech was perfect to delay the game and switch to tactics such as dropships, fast expand, fast tech, which you can't play so extremely right now because you have to build up marauders and/or antiair so you don't get overrun.
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Patch 8
Balance Changes
TERRAN
Thor
Build time decreased from 75 seconds to 60 seconds.
Siege Tank
Build time decreased from 50 seconds to 45 seconds.
Marauder
Concussive Shells now require an upgrade.
Barracks Tech Lab
Concussive Shells upgrade added.
Concussive Shells upgrade costs 100/100 and takes 80 seconds to complete.
Terran Mech begins.
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I don't see how just a build time decrease means that suddenly Terran mech builds are viable. Care to explain how they suddenly are?
Thors are still clunky and highly immobile and siege tanks are still incredibly costly and immortals counter them like nothing else.
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EPT
