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So, how are your feelings about watch towers? Have you been using them? Were they useful for your plans? Did you face an opponent that used them to great advantage?
Personally, i used them in every single one of my first 10 matches and in later games i very often forget to use them. I also feel like way too many people neglect their use - which is weird, since in SC1 you did whatever you could to gain intel, placing pylons, overlords, lings in crucial positions was very important. In my first of "10 relegation games" i was playing TvT on Blistering Sands (and it was the only MU i had no gameplan for lol) and the opponent went with marauder drop into mass drops, which totally failed just because i had 2 scvs each holding 1 watchtower.
Recently i have lost a TvT with something as predictable as possible - reaper harass into marauder drop on metalopolis. I had all the units that would be enough to defend both reapers and marauder drop but they were not positioned enough - if i had them in proper place i would have been at huge advantage, instead i had them poorly placed and got harassed which lead to defeat.
Yet another game was TvP on metalopolis, where my opponent had probes on each tower and even though i had more army he was better prepared and stalled my attack with good forcefields. He kept defending my attacks until i took control over towers and then the tables turning.
Now, i know that at highest levels there is rule that "every slight advantage matters", so i have no doubt that X'N watchtowers will be used, but how important do you think will they be? Will there be battles for towers?
All in all, I love the idea of these neutral buildings, they are especially effective vs harass, I always loved having as much intel on enemy's movements as possible and this building fulfills this role very well 
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If I don't hit both of them I make sure I have the one that's got vision of the path between myself and my opponent (sometimes this means using both!)
They're a good place to put your pylon PvP for 3 gate warp-ins 
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i use them as much as i can, but my gamestyle often gives my opponent mapcontrol i cant access to them. even tho i like them, i feel like blizzard over-use them by putting them in every single map
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Sweden33719 Posts
I use them a lot but I can't help but I'm starting to not like them... Basically, on a map like LT, with control of the watch towers you can easily spot ANY unit movement in the entire center :/ I'm not sure I like how that means the player with map control is completely immune to ground based harass....
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they are stupidly good and i use them at every opportunity.
most of the games i win are honestly heavily influenced by me getting them.
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zerglins are the dominator of the watch towers dude
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
I think they are a good feature. I agree with FA that they do give TOO much vision on some maps....but thats a map design issue, not a feature design issue. Once they release the map editor, im sure you can just edit how much visual range it has.
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Xel'Naga towers are critcal. You can NEVER have too much scouting.
Depending on the map, if you control the right towers, you will always see a ground attack coming at you 100%. This is huge. Responding to an attack in the right way is necessary to win. Not to mention you get to see your opponent's army composition, which is extremely important in this game.
Always have control of the towers.
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I use them when playing zerg. One zergling at each tower is very cheap provides a lot of intel.
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Indeed, Z has it the easiest. Lings are cheap and fast. They can get to the tower and escape safely at the moment they see something (even if they don't, its only 25 minerals.)
I've used the towers a bunch. In some maps, they will reveal just enough of an expansion and you can spot of the opponent is expanding. It has allowed me to spot a T trying to expand to the high yeild minerals.
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On March 09 2010 00:04 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I use them a lot but I can't help but I'm starting to not like them... Basically, on a map like LT, with control of the watch towers you can easily spot ANY unit movement in the entire center :/ I'm not sure I like how that means the player with map control is completely immune to ground based harass....
I do agree.
Nonetheless, it is cool that there is no map (i think) where the tower shows if an expand is taken.
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@Icks: You can spot expansions with the towers on Desert Oasis, IIRC.
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Nonetheless, it is cool that there is no map (i think) where the tower shows if an expand is taken.
On Kulas Ravine the towers in the high expansions behind the rocks overlook the yellow mineral expansions.
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On March 09 2010 01:46 Icks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 00:04 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I use them a lot but I can't help but I'm starting to not like them... Basically, on a map like LT, with control of the watch towers you can easily spot ANY unit movement in the entire center :/ I'm not sure I like how that means the player with map control is completely immune to ground based harass.... I do agree. Nonetheless, it is cool that there is no map (i think) where the tower shows if an expand is taken.
On Blistering Sands you can see each third expansion from the watchtowers.
And on Metalopolis you can see the high yield spots.
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I think people were talking more about the nat expo.
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Kulas Ravine is all about the 10 watchtowers :> Lots of ground to cover, you need things like watchtowers, creep tumors, ovies, sensor towers, proxy pylons, etc. to help keep track of enemy armies on such large maps.
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These things are amazing as zerg, absolutely huge advantage in and zerg matchup if you just split a set of lings 1 at each on most maps cover the whole terrain.
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This game is not SCBW! Scouting midgame means less I guess. Although Id like to point out that its a clear advantage to control those towers. However, we need more strats, more tells on certain strats etc for those to work, wich might come in some months or even years. But keep using them
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On March 09 2010 00:08 Kennigit wrote:
I think they are a good feature. I agree with FA that they do give TOO much vision on some maps....but thats a map design issue, not a feature design issue. Once they release the map editor, im sure you can just edit how much visual range it has.
and hopefully with the map editor you can adjust the vision's rage meaning you can put one back in the same spot but adjust the area that it reveals
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On March 09 2010 05:34 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 00:08 Kennigit wrote:
I think they are a good feature. I agree with FA that they do give TOO much vision on some maps....but thats a map design issue, not a feature design issue. Once they release the map editor, im sure you can just edit how much visual range it has. and hopefully with the map editor you can adjust the vision's rage meaning you can put one back in the same spot but adjust the area that it reveals
Yup thats exactly what i mean - the size of the area it reveals.
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They are good, but I find it more useful to leave my lings outside their ramp/in their nat in the early game. Hell even late game.
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Fortunately, map makers themselves can decide whether or not to keep Xel'Naga watchtowers when the game is released. If the competitive scene decides against them, then they can be removed and forgotten about.
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Melbourne5338 Posts
Towers almost make desert oasis bareable
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I love the towers, i just sit a ling at them and most of the time i keep them the whole game... pretty sweet. or, sometimes i burrow one, and keep one up, and if they kill the one that is up, i wait and then unburrow the other
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I love the towers ^^; It's such an easy and cheap way to have vision everywhere.
I feel like I'm map hacking because no one even bothered going there to kill my lings yet. (Silver League)
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Towers are also the difference between emping a ht or the ht storming your units. They let all your units utilize their max attack range. In a game where it seems every unit has vision of like 7 this can be ridiculously important for tanks/collosus/vikings. They also make it easier to perform flanks and such. Point being they aren't just for scouting/map control, they can change the outcomes of battles and thus entire games.
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the thing about watch towers is u can send a cloaked unit like a DT or send a zerling in and burrow it and ur opponent will never know u have control of the tower. and in small 2v2 maps like on LT and others it will be like having a mini map hack and u can see almost half the map with both towers controlled.
imho i think they should have a option to turn watch towers on or off in a game. would make games more interesting. like a "classic" maps option. basically no watchtowers at all.
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I like how pre-beta you'd have half of the people saying XN towers were crap and now everyone loves 'em or thinks they're OP.
I personally think they're a nice feature but need to have better placement on certain maps like LT.
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They're a gimmick but they're useful. I'd prefer they weren't in every single map ever but obv once custom maps can be made that won't be a problem.
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On March 09 2010 10:39 Crunchums wrote:
They're a gimmick but they're useful. I'd prefer they weren't in every single map ever but obv once custom maps can be made that won't be a problem.
actually i like them i can think they could be used in interesting in terms of map making ways if sc2 goes pro which it's bound to for awhile
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I think zerg has a bit of an advantage using them on the bigger maps with lots of them like LT and Kulas as all they need to control them is half a supply. When I play P I only find myself aiming to control the towers on the path between my opponent and myself while as Z I have a zergling at all of them and very rarely does anyone even try to take them from me. Not sure if I like them overall.
On March 09 2010 10:39 Crunchums wrote:
They're a gimmick but they're useful. I'd prefer they weren't in every single map ever but obv once custom maps can be made that won't be a problem.
It will be a problem since Ladder is going to be Blizzard maps, isn't it?
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I always send one ling to each tower and replace them if they die. With such a scouting area I can spot any drops and enemy movement
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Yeah, I'm usually surprised when someone contends for one in ZvP or ZvT. I loathe knowing that my opponent sees the entire map and probably my base between overlords/towers/changelings when I'm playing PvZ... but not as much as I hate the undeterable scan.
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they seem way underused based on the streams I've been following. i really don't get it
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Controlling the towers helped me spot drops a couple of times and saved my heinie, so I'm trying to use them even more now.
As Beyoncé states clearly: "Put a ling on it".
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These towers feels absolutely vital, especially in TvT where the opponent is trying to perma harass you with vikings/medivac drops.. having the time to react through watch towers is really good
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they make scouting too easy - [x] vote for remove
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Also for those who do hate them (I think they are a nice thing to have in the game) you will be able to make maps without them. It's likely if the community was against them Blizzard would make some b.net maps without them, but I don't see that happening.
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I almost feel that map control is harder to keep ahold of in SC2 than its predecessor, so I like things like this which add even further benefits to map control.
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Calgary25980 Posts
I use them a lot and they're stupid.
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EPT
